Can Sharapova surpass her idol Seles

[roaringsound]

Right now most regard Monica Seles as the 10th best women player of all time. Had Maria surpass her and thus enter the top 10 all time. Monica has 9 slams, although she probably would have atleast 11 or 12 without the horrific stabbing. Maria has 5, but has the career slam which Monica failed to win. Maria's longevity destroys Monica's, and probably would have even without the stabbing (lets face it, Seles never would have a 12+ year span winning slams). However Monica totally dominated the game for 2-3 years. The biggest knock against Maria is she has never really dominated the game. This could be her year to finally get over that hump though, as she has a good shot to win 2 or even 3 slams this year and finally end a year at #1 with lots of tournament wins.

So does Maria have it in her to surpass someone like Seles and how many slams would she have to get to that considering she already has the Career Slam and success at all slams Monica with her mostly abysmal title-less Wimbledon resume lacks.

 

[Chico]

No. Monika's career was greatly affected by stabbing and even if Sharapova reaches 9 slams (which she would likely not), she can't never be equal to Seles who had 8 slams at the age of 19 and would likely end up with about 15-16 slams at least, if she was never stabbed.

 

[roaringsound]

No. Monika's career was greatly affected by stabbing and even if Sharapova reaches 9 slams (which she would likely not), she can't never be equal to Seles who had 8 slams at the age of 19 and would likely end up with about 15-16 slams at least, if she was never stabbed.

You cant create fantasy careers for someone though. Maybe Monica would have got hit by a car the next day and won only 8 slams, or maybe she would have won 80 slams. What we know if she won 9. I could see giving some minor consideration to her due to the unique circumstances, but Maria has the career slam over Monica and that is a huge thing. Most regard Maria as superior to Henin and Venus already, even though both have 2 more slams, Henin has a ton more time at #1, Venus has a ton more achievements overall considering doubles and her Wimbledon and Olympic success, all because of the Career Slam. Which shows how huge it is. So I think even giving some consideration to Seles's stabbing it would be almost impossible to rank Seles above Maria with 9 or 10 slams for Maria, when with 5 she is already being put over Henin and Venus. Remember Seles sucked on grass and at Wimbledon, and was not certain to win there even without the stabbing. Never would have if she had to play Graf, that is for sure.

 

[bullfan]

Right now most regard Monica Seles as the 10th best women player of all time. Had Maria surpass her and thus enter the top 10 all time. Monica has 9 slams, although she probably would have atleast 11 or 12 without the horrific stabbing. Maria has 5, but has the career slam which Monica failed to win. Maria's longevity destroys Monica's, and probably would have even without the stabbing (lets face it, Seles never would have a 12+ year span winning slams). However Monica totally dominated the game for 2-3 years. The biggest knock against Maria is she has never really dominated the game. This could be her year to finally get over that hump though, as she has a good shot to win 2 or even 3 slams this year and finally end a year at #1 with lots of tournament wins.

So does Maria have it in her to surpass someone like Seles and how many slams would she have to get to that considering she already has the Career Slam and success at all slams Monica with her mostly abysmal title-less Wimbledon resume lacks.

Maria isn't that good. Plain and simple. Had she she not beat Serena a decade ago, she wouldn't be where she is now. Serena made her!

 

[roaringsound]

Maria isn't that good. Plain and simple. Had she she not beat Serena a decade ago, she wouldn't be where she is now. Serena made her!

Actually Serena has probably cost Maria another 8 slams or something. So to have achieve what she has anyway is amazing. Plus even with how owned she is by Serena, getting humiliated most times they play, and going on a 10+ year winless streak, she still beat her to help complete her career slam. That just shows what a competitor she is, and how she always finds a way.

 

[Chico]

You cant create fantasy careers for someone though. Maybe Monica would have got hit by a car the next day and won only 8 slams, or maybe she would have won 80 slams. What we know if she won 9. I could see giving some minor consideration to her due to the unique circumstances, but Maria has the career slam over Monica and that is a huge thing. Most regard Maria as superior to Henin and Venus already, even though both have 2 more slams, Henin has a ton more time at #1, Venus has a ton more achievements overall considering doubles and her Wimbledon and Olympic success, all because of the Career Slam. Which shows how huge it is. So I think even giving some consideration to Seles's stabbing it would be almost impossible to rank Seles above Maria with 9 or 10 slams for Maria, when with 5 she is already being put over Henin and Venus. Remember Seles sucked on grass and at Wimbledon, and was not certain to win there even without the stabbing. Never would have if she had to play Graf, that is for sure.

The Seles stabbing is different. It was perpetrated on the TENNIS COURT by a sick individual (and fan of her main rival) with the direct intention to affect the tennis history, ruin Seles' career and buy Graf's place in GOAThood. So for that reason alone stabbing has to be evaluated and taken into account when both Seles' and Graf's careers are measured vs other tennis greats and their place in tennis history is determined.

 

[bullfan]

Actually Serena has probably cost Maria another 8 slams or something. So to have achieve what she has anyway is amazing. Plus even with how owned she is by Serena, getting humiliated most times they play, and going on a 10+ year winless streak, she still beat her to help complete her career slam. That just shows what a competitor she is, and how she always finds a way.

What incredible Pretzel logic!

 

[roaringsound]

The Seles stabbing is different. It was perpetrated on the TENNIS COURT by a sick individual (and fan of her main rival) with the direct intention to affect the tennis history, ruin Seles' career and buy Graf's place in GOAThood. So for that reason alone stabbing has to be evaluated and taken into account when both Seles' and Graf's careers are measured vs other tennis greats and their place in tennis history is determined.

This thread isn't about Graf so talk about her in another thread. If you want to devalue Graf then fine (but again irrelevant in this Maria vs Monica thread) but when it comes to Seles you cant just award her fantasy slams she didn't win, and which you have no way of knowing she would have won or not. It might seem reasonable to think she might have won 15-16 slams but unless you have a crystal ball or, or a gypsy you have no way of knowing that. What we do know if she won 9 slams, and didn't win Wimbledon, and only has 1 decent showing there ever. Plus like I said it isn't even a "safe" bet she would have won a Wimbledon without the stabbing (she might have, but it is far from certain). While Maria has 5 slams, has won all the slams, has many finals at all the slams, and seems to be entering the potential best and most dominant part of her career.

 

[mtommer]

So does Maria have it in her to surpass someone like Seles...

I don't think so. The irony is that I actually do like watching Maria play because she is so gritty and has such a great desire to win, and this is despite the shrieking. Unfortunately, she just isn't a great mover and to achieve what she has is phenomenal given her weaknesses. I personally am not one who inherently places a career slam as being a great feat. For me it depends on the situation, opponent, path to the final...at any rate, I just don't place Maria that well if only because I've seen to many players who have been able to neutralize her by simply being better athletes in general. *shrug*

 

[Backspin1183]

No......Maria may win 1 or 2 more slams. I think she retires in a year or two.

 

[objectivity]

You cant create fantasy careers for someone though. Maybe Monica would have got hit by a car the next day and won only 8 slams, or maybe she would have won 80 slams. What we know if she won 9. I could see giving some minor consideration to her due to the unique circumstances, but Maria has the career slam over Monica and that is a huge thing. Most regard Maria as superior to Henin and Venus already, even though both have 2 more slams, Henin has a ton more time at #1, Venus has a ton more achievements overall considering doubles and her Wimbledon and Olympic success, all because of the Career Slam. Which shows how huge it is. So I think even giving some consideration to Seles's stabbing it would be almost impossible to rank Seles above Maria with 9 or 10 slams for Maria, when with 5 she is already being put over Henin and Venus. Remember Seles sucked on grass and at Wimbledon, and was not certain to win there even without the stabbing. Never would have if she had to play Graf, that is for sure.

surely not above Henin and Venus. That is way too much of a stretch.

 

[scotus]

Shutupova has already surpassed Seles ... in decibels.

 

[Vensai]

I don't think so, no.

 

[hoosierbr]

Seles, Hingis and Martina all went out in the first round of "Dancing with the Stars." Put Maria on and if she breaks the streak then surely she will have some claim to GOAT.

 

[TMF]

surely not above Henin and Venus. That is way too much of a stretch.

If Maria wins this Wimbledon, you can argue that she's above Venus.

 

[Graf=GOAT]

No. Monika's career was greatly affected by stabbing and even if Sharapova reaches 9 slams (which she would likely not), she can't never be equal to Seles who had 8 slams at the age of 19 and would likely end up with about 15-16 slams at least, if she was never stabbed.

You are still crying? :-?

 

[dominikk1985]

No. Monika's career was greatly affected by stabbing and even if Sharapova reaches 9 slams (which she would likely not), she can't never be equal to Seles who had 8 slams at the age of 19 and would likely end up with about 15-16 slams at least, if she was never stabbed.

yes. and even if Monica was not stabbed she had a period of real dominance while Maria was a Compiler benefitting from a weak WTA tour.

her first two wins were great (prime serena and prime justine) but after that she only won slams sporadically against weak opponents.

 

[MichaelNadal]

If Maria wins this Wimbledon, you can argue that she's above Venus.

:lol: Now that was funny. Especially coming from someone that loves to post a list every time someone tries to do the same with Nadal and Federer's slam count.

 

[jelle v]

In my book, Sharapova will never be ranked above Seles.

Seles got robbed of a career where she would probably have gotten tot at least 15 slams. On top of that she was defeating one of the biggest female tennis players ever (Graf), while Sharapova gets beaten by Serena time and time again. Also Seles was the dominant force on the tour in a way Sharapova has never been, winning -i think- something like 6 out of 8 slams she entered.

No way that Sharapova will ever be ranked above Seles, well, normalle then.. If Sharapoveawins another 10 slams or something I'm willing to concede that Sharapova should be ranked above Seles.

 

[pirateofthecarribean]

Sharapova wins 1 slam every 2 years. Not gonna happen that Sharapova can win 9 slams.

 

[dh003i]

I'd say the fair way to evaluate Seles is to evaluate her vs. her peers at similar points in their careers.

We can't say what she would or wouldn't have accomplished had the horrible stabbing not occurred, but she shouldn't be penalized for it.

Maybe we can say she had one of the greatest cut-short careers of all time.

 

[heftylefty]

If Maria wins this Wimbledon, you can argue that she's above Venus.

Let us know win Maria ever decides to defend at least one Slam title.

 

[TMF]

Let us know win Maria ever decides to defend at least one Slam title.

I'll let you know when she wins another slam.

Let us know when Venus ever win the career slam.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

In my book, Sharapova will never be ranked above Seles.

Seles got robbed of a career where she would probably have gotten tot at least 15 slams. On top of that she was defeating one of the biggest female tennis players ever (Graf), while Sharapova gets beaten by Serena time and time again. Also Seles was the dominant force on the tour in a way Sharapova has never been, winning -i think- something like 6 out of 8 slams she entered.

No way that Sharapova will ever be ranked above Seles, well, normalle then.. If Sharapoveawins another 10 slams or something I'm willing to concede that Sharapova should be ranked above Seles.

wins 10more slams and atleast beats serena 5 times.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

I'll let you know when she wins another slam.

Let us know when Venus ever win the career slam.

venus doesn't have that, but she has gold medals,and doubles titles.

 

[TMF]

venus doesn't have that, but she has gold medals,and doubles titles.

Tennis experts don't include Olympic and double as part of the criteria in determine 100 greatest players. If they do, then the Bryan Brothers would be in the top 5 greatest of all time, but instead, they don't make the top 100.

 

[kishnabe]

:lol: Now that was funny. Especially coming from someone that loves to post a list every time someone tries to do the same with Nadal and Federer's slam count.

I agree lol. Maybe if Maria wins 2-3 more slams.

 

[Fed881981]

Actually Serena has probably cost Maria another 8 slams or something. So to have achieve what she has anyway is amazing. Plus even with how owned she is by Serena, getting humiliated most times they play, and going on a 10+ year winless streak, she still beat her to help complete her career slam. That just shows what a competitor she is, and how she always finds a way.

Far from being correct.

Their H2H in majors:
FO: 1-0 Serena
Wimbledon: 1-1
AO: 2-0 Serena
Total: 4-1 Serena.

So, Serena didn't cost her in GSs as much as you thought. Sharapova is always vulnerable to loses (including early loses), well before she meets the top ladies.

 

[heftylefty]

I'll let you know when she wins another slam.

Let us know when Venus ever win the career slam.

Please...if you remotely believe that Maria is in the same class as Venus, you have just shown how little you know about tennis.

Why don't you honor us with your tried and "true" list, but this time including Maria. I can use a good laugh.

 

[Xavier G]

I doubt Maria reaches nine Slams. I can see her win 7 or 8 max, which is still a pretty strong total. She has every GS in her collection and a lot of very good players can't say that...

 

[TMF]

Please...if you remotely believe that Maria is in the same class as Venus, you have just shown how little you know about tennis.

Why don't you honor us with your tried and "true" list, but this time including Maria. I can use a good laugh.

Read my previous post. I said if Maria wins another slam, there's a valid argument. Venus won 2 out of the 4 slams while Maria completed a career slam. Maria is consistent on all surfaces while Venus is good on fast courts. There's no debate as to who has more complete game and a well-rounded resume.

 

[Vcore89]

Let's just suppose she wins the USO this fall, that would mean she wins one slam every two years, give her till 29 years old before she calls it a career, she'll be at 6 slams total. Throw in some luck and she should be fine at 7 or 8 slams before her shoulders totally fails her. She is alright even with only 4 slams, at least it's already a career slam, how many can claim the same?

 

[heftylefty]

Read my previous post. I said if Maria wins another slam, there's a valid argument. Venus won 2 out of the 4 slams while Maria completed a career slam. Maria is consistent on all surfaces while Venus is good on fast courts. There's no debate as to who has more complete game and a well-rounded resume.

A "well-rounded" resume would include at least one slam title defense, right?

 

[TMF]

A "well-rounded" resume would include at least one slam title defense, right?

Look, if you're going to insists that is a hole in her resume then it's safe to say that failing to win 2 other slam events has a giant hole at a size of a meteor crater.