Can someone exlpain this to me?

[Head-Strong]

I see the tennis rankings on ATP website and it seems like Roger had 4100+ points and Nadal has 2200+ points so i am guessing these are since begining of their careers. So it seems like no-one can catch up to Roger for a few years....
now ATP also has the annual rankings such as 2007 Race Rankings.... why have 2?
So here is my question, SonyEricsson is 100 point tourney. Obviously no-one can catch upto Roger on his 4100 points.
But what about 2007 Race Rankings,
1st Federer, R. 261
2nd Haas, T. 200
3rd Roddick, A. 185
4th Nadal, R. 180
5th Djokovic, N. 172
6th Murray, A. 167
7th Gonzalez, F. 163
8th Youzhny, M. 145
9th Ljubicic, I. 135
10th Chela, J. 121

So if Andy or RAFA wins the SE open they will be #1 on 2007 rankings yet Roger will be #1 on the inceptions rankings for a few more years even if he NEVER WINS anything else?
This is CRAZY!

 

[Deleted member 3771]

The race just counts the poinst so far this year, but since only a few months have passed theres no point basing ranking on that.
The ranking is based on 1 year, so it counts points for the last 52 weeks, so each weeks points replaces the points from the corresponsing week last year . Federer has about 4000 points in the last 52 weeks.


The race is just a guide to let fans know how players are going so far this calendar year. It's the rank that matters.

I see the tennis rankings on ATP website and it seems like Roger had 4100+ points and Nadal has 2200+ points so i am guessing these are since begining of their careers. So it seems like no-one can catch up to Roger for a few years....
now ATP also has the annual rankings such as 2007 Race Rankings.... why have 2?
So here is my question, SonyEricsson is 100 point tourney. Obviously no-one can catch upto Roger on his 4100 points.
But what about 2007 Race Rankings,
1st Federer, R. 261
2nd Haas, T. 200
3rd Roddick, A. 185
4th Nadal, R. 180
5th Djokovic, N. 172
6th Murray, A. 167
7th Gonzalez, F. 163
8th Youzhny, M. 145
9th Ljubicic, I. 135
10th Chela, J. 121

So if Andy or RAFA wins the SE open they will be #1 on 2007 rankings yet Roger will be #1 on the inceptions rankings for a few more years even if he NEVER WINS anything else?
This is CRAZY!

 

[Hops]

The race just counts the poinst so far this year, but since only a few months have passed theres no point basing ranking on that.
The ranking is based on 1 year, so it counts points for the last 52 weeks, so each weeks points replaces the points from the corresponsing week last year . Federer has about 4000 points in the last 52 weeks.

more like 7000 ....

Key Biscayne provisional rankings, thru 4R:

1 (1) 7290 Federer, Roger
2 (2) 4875 Nadal, Rafael*
3 (3) 2980 Roddick, Andy*
4 (4) 2825 Davydenko, Nikolay
5 (5) 2755 Gonzalez, Fernando
6 (6) 2645 Robredo, Tommy*
7 (7) 2170 Ljubicic, Ivan*
8 (10) 2165 Djokovic, Novak*
9 (8 2150 Blake, James
10 (9) 2135 Haas, Tommy
11 (12) 2025 Murray, Andy*
12 (11) 1805 Nalbandian, David
13 (13) 1775 Ancic, Mario
14 (15) 1715 Berdych, Tomas
15 (16) 1620 Gasquet, Richard
16 (14) 1615 Ferrer, David
17 (17) 1545 Youzhny, Mikhail
18 (18 1315 Baghdatis, Marcos
19 (19) 1250 Hewitt, Lleyton
20 (21) 1250 Nieminen, Jarkko
21 (20) 1230 Ferrero, Juan Carlos
22 (23) 1140 Fish, Mardy
23 (25) 1125 Chela, Juan Ignacio*
24 (22) 1120 Tursunov, Dmitry
25 (24) 1083 Hrbaty, Dominik
26 (27) 1070 Safin, Marat
27 (26) 1070 Stepanek, Radek
28 (28 1058 Soderling, Robin
29 (29) 1050 Melzer, Jurgen
30 (34) 955 Almagro, Nicolas
31 (31) 935 Malisse, Xavier
32 (30) 913 Calleri, Agustin
33 (32) 910 Moya, Carlos
34 (33) 895 Verdasco, Fernando
35 (35) 875 Wawrinka, Stanislas
36 (36) 850 Rochus, Olivier
37 (38 850 Simon, Gilles
38 (37) 850 Acasuso, Jose
39 (39) 803 Bjorkman, Jonas
40 (55) 792 Canas, Guillermo*
41 (45) 790 Mayer, Florian
42 (40) 782 Benneteau, Julien
43 (44) 775 Gaudio, Gaston
44 (43) 758 Becker, Benjamin
45 (42) 750 Ginepri, Robby
46 (46) 750 Monfils, Gael
47 (41) 732 Gicquel, Marc
48 (47) 720 Henman, Tim
49 (48 720 Lee, Hyung-Taik
50 (51) 690 Clement, Arnaud

 

[BiGGieStuFF]

So if Federer lost all thorugh the year and was out of the top 8 in YTD points but still ranked in the top 8 (which i'm not sure would be possible) He wouldn't make it to the year end championships right?

 

[Moose Malloy]

a ranking based on your career? interesting, borg could come out of retirement & be #2.

So if Federer lost all thorugh the year and was out of the top 8 in YTD points but still ranked in the top 8 (which i'm not sure would be possible) He wouldn't make it to the year end championships right?

by the time of the masters cup, both the race & the ranking are the same. its not possible for anyone to be ranked in top 8 & not also top 8 in YTD that late in the season.

 

[BiGGieStuFF]

a ranking based on your career? interesting, borg could come out of retirement & be #2.



by the time of the masters cup, both the race & the ranking are the same. its not possible for anyone to be ranked in top 8 & not also top 8 in YTD that late in the season.

I wasn't sure of how the point system worked. I figured that he wouldn't get enough points to in the yearly race but he wouldn't have lost enough points to fall out of the top 8. Probably my misunderstanding of the point system.

 

[noeledmonds]

The ranking points are based on the last 52 weeks of your career, the race points are based on your results to date in the calendar year. At the end of a calendar year both rankings are the same. If you times race points by 5 then you get equvilant ranking points for a given event. For example, each Grand Slam winner will be awarded 200 race points and this equals 1000 ranking points.

 

[Fee]

I wasn't sure of how the point system worked. I figured that he wouldn't get enough points to in the yearly race but he wouldn't have lost enough points to fall out of the top 8. Probably my misunderstanding of the point system.

Yeah, I think so, but its a common mistake. When you hear a commentator or whoever say a player "has points to defend at this event" it means that 52 weeks ago they earned a certain amount of points and those points will 'fall off' so the player has to earn the same amount of points or more in order to keep his ranking (this refers to the Entry Ranking System, not the Race). Two examples:

Amer Delic was injured last year during the Miami Masters and did not play anywhere so he does not have any 'points to defend'. He made it to the 3rd and he earned a few points for qualifying, so whatever points he earned during this tournament will be added to his current point total, but no points will be subtracted from his points total, so his ranking will go up.

Andy Roddick made it to the quarterfinals last year, and he 'defended' his points by making it to the quarterfinal this year, so his point total will not change, but his position in the entry ranking system could change if someone around him performed better.

Again, this is all about the Entry Ranking System, not the Race. The entry ranking system is what most players pay attention to because it is used to enter tournaments and it used for seeding when draws are made. I hope my input hasn't confused anyone even more (I can do that by trying to explain the '18 best events including 13 mandatories and 5 optionals' rule).

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

a ranking based on your career? interesting, borg could come out of retirement & be #2.

http://www.setratings.com/ had an interesting approach to this question... not a definite answer for sure, but interesting.
unfortunately the site is closed at the moment.

by the time of the masters cup, both the race & the ranking are the same. its not possible for anyone to be ranked in top 8 & not also top 8 in YTD that late in the season.

well... technically it is, even if it's probably not going to happen... with some challenger points that aren't taken into account in the race !

for instance, goran in 2001 and puerta in 2005 were ranked #12 at the year-end entry system while #13 at the race.

 

[armand]

Think you can make the year end Championships if you win a slam so long as you remain in the top 20. Am I true?

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Think you can make the year end Championships if you win a slam so long as you remain in the top 20. Am I true?

right... excepted if ever there is a guy in this same situation just in front of you.
the 7 first players are qualified + one player (and only one) in this situation you mentioned / or the 8th player if there is no player in that situation.

see masters cup 2002 : costa took the last spot, but not johansson.
(and neither sampras, but anyway he withdrew)
johansson still played a RR match (vs federer)... but as an alternate.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

Selection List

here are the full rules (for 2007)... for choosing also the alternates.

The Selection List for the event shall be:
a) The top 7 players in the ATP 2007 Race as of the Monday after the last ATP Tournament of the calendar year; followed by
b) Up to 2 Grand Slam winners of that year, in order of their positions, positioned between 8 and 20 in the ATP 2007 Race as of that Monday; followed by
c) Players positioned 8 and below in the ATP 2007 Race as of that Monday.

from the bible : http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/ATP_Rulebook2007.pdf