bitcoinoperated
Hall of Fame
This is the story he'd like people to believe.
Can Tennis ever be an everyman sport?
- Thread starter BGod
- Start date
This is the story he'd like people to believe.
tennis tom
Legend
If your kid's got talent, desire and drive he will be helped to succeed. Money doesn't buy a champion, it's knowledge which will be freely given to those desiring to learn.
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
Even if Richard's a tool, if he wasn't their father they never would've made it out of Compton, let alone made it far.
Last edited:
tennis tom
Legend
PRO tennis is available to any kid, sign up for a Futures or a Challenger. Pro sports are a business, it's about the gate. The public pays huge amounts to buy tickets to pro basketball and TV rights. They're not as interested in tennis, you can watch challengers and futures for free or maybe $10 for finals. Tennis isn't all about the money. Your kid can make a modest living playing basketball in Europe but for how long? Once he can't play anymore then what he gonna' do with it?--hang out in the park? Being an adequate college tennis player will give him a lifetime of entrees to the country club where maybe he can marry the bosses daughter or get some stock tips. And, it's a lot easier to gather up one to three players for some tennis then six to ten for basketball when your 75.
Last edited:
I think this is partly true. Rich kids do not indeed have the drive, or rather, they do, but not necessarily for tennis. It's madness that the national tennis centre here in Britain is based near me, between Richmond and Putney. It's basically banker central, these kids have lots of options open to them with far greater likelihood of succeeding in them and making great money for years. The tennis centre should be somewhere in the middle of the country and be accessible to talented kids from all round the country.
It's important to note, in terms of pros, just how little money there is to be made from tennis even being one of the very best in the world. In football, you can make a lot of money at a high number of clubs even as a valuable squad member. This is why so many people fall away from the sport. If there were good money in the Challenger and Futures circuits, this would be difficult - they could be marketed as separate from the main tour and a chance to see the stars of tomorrow today, for instance.
In terms of enjoying the sport and creating a good tennis culture in a country, where the people who play know what they're doing and can bring their own kids through to enhance the talent pool, it would help if there weren't so many obstacles to finding courts. In Britain a lot of the courts are behind the walls of clubs, and more than that the weather is utterly unreliable and it gets dark early for a good 6 months of the year, at least (!). If there were more indoor courts, sensibly priced, accessible to all, those facilities would absolutely clean up, I have no doubt, and it would help the game grow no end.
Zielmann
Semi-Pro
Not that this is unexpected, but this thread is extremely tennis-biased. Unless you're an ex-player yourself, you don't just go shoot hoops with your kid on the weekends, plop them into high school tryouts, and wind up with a kid worthy of a significant college scholarship and potential NBA team attention. You'll still need to be enrolling them in club sports and hope to make the local premier/traveling team for regular year-round competitive experience with good coaches. Private lessons exist, too.
Only about 5% of basketball players in high school go on to play in college. Not many of those get much of a scholarship, if anything. And a small portion of those are going to actually get on teams at the big D1 schools. And very few of those are going to actually be good enough to get pulled up into the NBA. Yes, more international opportunities exist for basketball, but it's still a really low percentage of overall players that make it there.
I think the difficulty of even just getting a scholarship for basketball (let alone making it pro, even internationally), has been severely underestimated...
Only about 5% of basketball players in high school go on to play in college. Not many of those get much of a scholarship, if anything. And a small portion of those are going to actually get on teams at the big D1 schools. And very few of those are going to actually be good enough to get pulled up into the NBA. Yes, more international opportunities exist for basketball, but it's still a really low percentage of overall players that make it there.
I think the difficulty of even just getting a scholarship for basketball (let alone making it pro, even internationally), has been severely underestimated...
Basketball is also very much a genetic lottery game. Tennis at the highest level is as well, but basketball even more so. The talk of "hard work" and all that is good, and true in the sense of separating yourself from those that also have the talent, but a shooting eye, vertical leap, passing ability, and the ability to do all of that at game speed is something you are born with. Not to mention being 6'6" or whatever height. You can improve on what you have, but no amount of hard work is going to turn you into Michael Jordan. Or even Michael Adams.
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
Hahaha, you've just proved him right.
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, there were at least 999 other families who tried the same in the US in that period just like Williams family. It's just like business, some succeed but most fail but you only hear about the success stories.
cknobman
Legend
This thread premise is terribly stereotyped and wrong at its pure base.
Tennis already is a "every mans" sport. I play with tons of people across all income/ethnic/economic/cultural backgrounds.
Furthermore anyone that thinks other sports are "cheap" to play at a high level or be competitive at you are fooling yourselves.
As a father of 3 boys I know that (here in America) trying to get your kids playing at a highly competitive level in any sport is expensive.
Basketball? Sure anyone can go "shoot hoops" on the cheap. You want to be good, get at a level college scouts will notice you, and play with the best? You'll be joining a club team quick which costs thousands of dollars per year, and its not like you just go pick a freaking team and play. Your kid has to try out and be good enough. If he is not then you better get him in some local leagues and get him coaching to get good enough. Then once on a club team you buy the expensive jerseys, shoes, clothing. You also have to have a travel budget, etc......
Footbal and baseball same story.
No sport is "cheap" to play.
You may get the perception that its cheap looking at high school sports because our public education system chooses to fund footbal, basketball, and baseball with taxpayer money much more than any of the other sports.
Tennis already is a "every mans" sport. I play with tons of people across all income/ethnic/economic/cultural backgrounds.
Furthermore anyone that thinks other sports are "cheap" to play at a high level or be competitive at you are fooling yourselves.
As a father of 3 boys I know that (here in America) trying to get your kids playing at a highly competitive level in any sport is expensive.
Basketball? Sure anyone can go "shoot hoops" on the cheap. You want to be good, get at a level college scouts will notice you, and play with the best? You'll be joining a club team quick which costs thousands of dollars per year, and its not like you just go pick a freaking team and play. Your kid has to try out and be good enough. If he is not then you better get him in some local leagues and get him coaching to get good enough. Then once on a club team you buy the expensive jerseys, shoes, clothing. You also have to have a travel budget, etc......
Footbal and baseball same story.
No sport is "cheap" to play.
You may get the perception that its cheap looking at high school sports because our public education system chooses to fund footbal, basketball, and baseball with taxpayer money much more than any of the other sports.
3fees
G.O.A.T.
No more diversification is necessary and it needs promotion, when I was younger, there were tennis courts within a 5 minute walk , On the weekends the courts were filled with mixed doubles, Husband and wife, Guy and girl friend and so forth, it was considered exercise and many liked the social play, now adaze the popularity has gone back down,,,,Tennis must appeal to a wide group and coaching is not that expensive unless you go to clubs, then your looking at thousands of dollars paid to be a average player.
Cheers
3Fees
Cheers
3Fees
cknobman
Legend
No more diversification is necessary and it needs promotion, when I was younger, there were tennis courts within a 5 minute walk , On the weekends the courts were filled with mixed doubles, Husband and wife, Guy and girl friend and so forth, it was considered exercise and many liked the social play, now adaze the popularity has gone back down,,,,Tennis must appeal to a wide group and coaching is not that expensive unless you go to clubs, then your looking at thousands of dollars paid to be a average player.
Cheers
3Fees
Define "diversification" please.
bananaforehand
Rookie
I guess it must be different in the states, but with football (or soccer as you guys call it), it's our most popular sport and is a hell of a lot cheaper than tennis. I mean, if you a very talented, and play in a professional clubs academy as youngster the club will pay for you and if you're still with them until a certain age you would get paid.
As a you drop down to the Sunday/Saturday league level you have to pay, but I wouldn't call it expensive. Often costs like travel are split as parents will rotate picking up groups.
Wouldn't call it "cheap" either, but tennis in a whole different category when compared with football and even less popular sports like basketball and rugby. Price as well as other factors, particularly as it's an individual sport, make it all the more difficult to reach high levels such in team games.
But what are the costs of hiring a football pitch? Why can football parents split travel costs, but not the tennis ones?
The costs of playing recreational tennis are often exaggerated, while the costs of playing recreational football tend to be overlooked. It's the same with ticket prices. People assume Wimbledon is hugely expensive and only for "the snobs", but have you seen the price of a ticket for a Premier League match lately? "Normal" people will pay huge amounts for a season ticket, and will spend a lot extra to travel to away matches, taking a huge chunk out of each weekend.
Yes, if you live in the right area and are spotted, a talented young footballer can be taken on by a club, but it normally includes a big sacrifice by the family to help to make it work. The super-talented will be picked up young and can sign contracts on their own terms, but as in tennis, it's harder to get it to work if you aren't an obvious star.
cknobman
Legend
@*Sparkle* You make a good point about ticket prices.
I live in DFW Texas home of the Dallas Cowboys.
The seats we sit in (which are not the best by any means, nor the worst) cost $375 each and if you park in the official stadium parking lot that is $75.
This is for ONE GAME on a Sunday evening.
2 years running I have bought a finals package to the Western and Southern Open Masters tennis tournament for <$375 and parking is included in that cost.
This gets me 3 full days of tennis to all mens and womens quarterfinal, semi final, and finals matches.
Not to mention I get full access to the entire grounds where I watch doubles, mixed doubled, practices, etc.....
Its far cheaper (and more enjoyable) to go watch professional tennis than it is football.
I live in DFW Texas home of the Dallas Cowboys.
The seats we sit in (which are not the best by any means, nor the worst) cost $375 each and if you park in the official stadium parking lot that is $75.
This is for ONE GAME on a Sunday evening.
2 years running I have bought a finals package to the Western and Southern Open Masters tennis tournament for <$375 and parking is included in that cost.
This gets me 3 full days of tennis to all mens and womens quarterfinal, semi final, and finals matches.
Not to mention I get full access to the entire grounds where I watch doubles, mixed doubled, practices, etc.....
Its far cheaper (and more enjoyable) to go watch professional tennis than it is football.
bananaforehand
Rookie
When the cost is split between, what, 16 people for training and over 20 for a match, not a great deal.
A lot of people tend to play football with people they live near, so splitting travel costs is no issue. For example, at the school I attended, I didn't know of anyone who played tennis regularly. If less people are playing, the less likely you'll have someone playing living near by and therefore less likely to be able split travel costs for tennis.
Agreed, on recreational tennis (not that I play), would not be high for tennis, but to play football it isn't either. I mean, I currently pay £6 to play for an hour (these are London prices too!), which is not bad at all. Before, I would often play for free or only for a few pounds.
You talk about ticket prices and tennis is pricey, no doubt about it. I've been to Wimbledon a couple of times now and it's certainly understandable why people attach the snob term to tennis. Premier League prices are also ridiculous for most clubs and that often why you'll see people complaining about them, it's certainly not seen as something that isn't a big issue.
Again, with the football, sacrifices do have to be made, but unless you live out in the sticks, I wouldn't really call it a financial sacrifice in most cases. More of a compromise between education and time. I know plenty of people who have played in academies during their time at school, but who failed to make the cut in a professional capacity. Financially, though, it would hardly impact them or their families.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
@cknobman, please edit this post. Your one of the saner posters - this can't be you.
So LeBron James' family had money? Or most of the blacks in the NFL and NBA? Are you kidding?
You don't need a personal coach or membership to a club or parents able to pay for an academy to excel in US football, hoops, or baseball. And yes, if you excel in public schools, some college will find you.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
You're going to practice basketball with your kid and make him great?
The cheap way to greatness is having crazy tennis parent. This lone wolf approach works.
Then maybe college or academy on scholarship.
For the park player tennis is extremely cheap in my area. Lots of free courts.
The cheap way to greatness is having crazy tennis parent. This lone wolf approach works.
Then maybe college or academy on scholarship.
For the park player tennis is extremely cheap in my area. Lots of free courts.
cknobman
Legend
I'm sorry but I think you are cherry picking and having a very narrow view of this furthermore even mentioning "blacks" is borderline racist if not very stereotypical.
You dont need a personal coach or membership to a club to excel in tennis either, and yes if you excel at tennis in public schools some college will find you. Think of our American players now like John Isner and Sam Querry.
There are example in every sport going both ways.
And I never said "academy" or "club" but I know first hand as I have 3 sons, 2 of which who played basketball from a very young age if you want to truly excel in a sport you do need personal coaching and you do need to get into/on to select/club/high level teams.
You dont just play YMCA or go shoot hoops in the parking lot and become an elite level player. Yes it happens but those are the exceptions not the rule.
You mention LeBron James, did you even bother to look at his early life and see what he did to become good at the sport?
He was part of the AAU and went to a private Catholic high school. He did not just shoot hoops by himself and grow up in the "ghetto".
James was born on December 30, 1984 in Akron, Ohio, to a 16-year-old mother, Gloria Marie James, who raised him on her own.[1][2]:22 Growing up, life was often a struggle for the family, as they moved from apartment to apartment in the seedier neighborhoods of Akron while James' mother struggled to find steady work.[3] Realizing he would be better off with a more stable family environment, Gloria allowed James to move in with the family of Frank Walker, a local youth football coach, who introduced James to basketball when he was nine years old.[2]:23
As a youth, James played Amateur Athletic Union (AAU) basketball for the Northeast Ohio Shooting Stars.[3] The team enjoyed success on a local and national level, led by James and his friends Sian Cotton, Dru Joyce III, and Willie McGee.[2]:24 Inseparable, they dubbed themselves the "Fab Four" and promised each other they would attend high school together.[2]:27 In a move that stirred local controversy, they chose to attend St. Vincent–St. Mary High School, a largely white private Catholic school.[4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeBron_James#Early_life
MrRandom247
Semi-Pro
Running is cheap. Don't even need shoes...
MasturB
Legend
Doesn't help that USTA is a quarter of a billion dollar enterprise and has probably some of the worst development.
People bring up how we have a lot of top 100 guys but we have yet to develop an elite Top 10 guy.
Give me about 8-10 years and I'll do it myself. USTA is useless. There's a reason a lot of the 4.5-5.5 guys in my town don't evne care to play leagues. The fees are absurd and there's just no point in it.
People bring up how we have a lot of top 100 guys but we have yet to develop an elite Top 10 guy.
Give me about 8-10 years and I'll do it myself. USTA is useless. There's a reason a lot of the 4.5-5.5 guys in my town don't evne care to play leagues. The fees are absurd and there's just no point in it.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
you can also swim naked...
NuBas
Legend
Only reason why Tennis isn't accessible to many is lack of courts, otherwise it IS a cheap sport. You don't need a professional racquet to begin with, balls are cheap, and that's all you need to get on court, just a racquet and tennis balls. You can learn how to play from the internet and watching videos, you don't necessarily need coaching, that's only for those who cannot teach themselves.
Only reason tennis isn't played by masses is lack of courts, lack of commitment, and lack of knowledge. Soccer is well liked because its simple but with team sports sometimes its an inconvenience because you can't always get a full squad to play with same with basketball etc.
Tennis is on the cheaper to moderate scale, it just isn't as popular because of the things I mentioned above.
Only reason tennis isn't played by masses is lack of courts, lack of commitment, and lack of knowledge. Soccer is well liked because its simple but with team sports sometimes its an inconvenience because you can't always get a full squad to play with same with basketball etc.
Tennis is on the cheaper to moderate scale, it just isn't as popular because of the things I mentioned above.
NuBas
Legend
OP you need to reword your question then, maybe you should ask is tennis a cheap sport for parents who want their kids to turn out as professionals, and then the answer is No but is tennis a cheap sport, YES.
You are the type of person who believes the more gear they have the better they will become, you don't need 32 balls if you're not lazy and go pick up the balls after they are hit and no young kid is gonna break their strings that often.
NuBas
Legend
Its not too hard to learn, its just lack of commitment and those who don't serve like professionals aren't bad at serving, they just don't do it as optimally as they could however even if you don't serve properly you can still play tennis and beat your opponent in many other ways.
NuBas
Legend
Of course there is a huge gap, you are the only individual playing and competing against the opponent. Team sports rely on many individuals so you don't need a bunch of great players.
Purplemonster
Hall of Fame
Unfortunately boxing is of course inexpensive and with the amount of idiots inhabiting the earth will always be popular.
Tardigrade
Banned
Being a good boxer doesn't mean you are dumb, they take the same path other sportsman do; They train from a young age, work, work, work, then go pro. They simply don't have time to enhance their intelligence. What you have said is quite stupid. You don't need to be academically smart to pursue any sport. It's a very tough sport to learn and a much harder sport mentally and physically than tennis.
Purplemonster
Hall of Fame
"They don't have time to enhance their intelligence" ?? And you think what I said is dumb ??
No doubt it is a tough sport, that requires incredible fitness and dedication, phenomenal athletes.
Anyone with a half a brain won't become a boxer. Next time you go to your doctor ask him or her what boxing does to your brain.
Find out how many children of professional people become professional boxers and then ask yourself why it's so low.
Tardigrade
Banned
What you said was quite stupid. It doesn't matter what sport people go into, whatever it is, they simply won't have time needed to become high achievers in school. The only player who I can think of who came from a very good academical background was Blake. He managed to achieve pretty much nothing in tennis either for a guy of his talent.
Boxing can only damage your brain if you play a reckless sort of game. I seriously doubt Mayweather (although not the sharpest tool in the shed) will develop any mental issues in later life; He simply didn't get hit that often and was fully capable of taking punches.
What the hell does this mean 'professional people'? Is this some snobby way of saying 'for those who have money and a good job'?? Well, here's the thing, I make more money than anyone I know who is my age and if I ever had kids, I would love it if they got into any sport at a young age, be it boxing/tennis/football.
Children of professional people don't become boxers because they don't have the drive or the motivation to train. Go and look at a pacman or Money training video. That pretty much scares them straight away. Also, most children of 'professional people' are given everything.
Is being smart so important to people where they would rather be philosopher than a boxer making millions?????
Roddick85
Hall of Fame
Great post!
I can't count how many hacks I see at the club level who foot fault on every serve and never really care to learn how to serve properly, it's quite mind-blowing. Now I don't really care about how "ugly" one's serve is, but if it results in a foot fault every time, I have a hard time respecting those kind of players because technically, they can't say they hold serve.
Where your hitting right on the mark is about how hard it is to find decent partners in Canada. I've never hid my dislike for Raonic, however I can relate to both him and you as I too have to resort to practicing serve most of the time because of a lack of decent partner/opposition. That obviously made my serve my best stroke, but it's quite pathetic when you think about it. It's only in recent years that I decided to acquire a ball machine to practice my groundstrokes when no one is around. I envy the USA tennis wise, because they have the USTA and a lots of organized leagues/tournaments for players of all age groups. In Canada, unless you're a junior, there's nothing for you. Most indoor clubs who have development program pretty much hand out the entire club/courts to them and there's nothing left for other age groups. I'm in the middle of renewing my indoor club membership and it pains me to see how little choice there is and how bad the limited options are. What a way to kill off one's interest in the sport.
Back to the original post. I think tennis is an expensive sport, but then again all sports cost money and nothing is cheap nowadays. If you compare the cost of a hockey player to that of a tennis player, I believe tennis would be cheaper at the beginning. If you try to make it professionally, tennis becomes quite expensive due to coaching, equipment but also because of all the traveling required to play tournaments in other countries. At the amateur level, depending on where you live, it can become quite an expense as well. IMO, tennis has always been seen as a "country club" type of sport just like golf and I don't think this image will go away anytime soon.
tennis tom
Legend
On the West Coast at least there are numerous courts, public, high-school, college, fitness clubs, and private clubs that are affordable to working people. Many are empty, in my parts tennis is available to anyone who wants to play.
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
If the day comes that tennis tournaments are no longer held in arenas, but rather over secure wifi networks using thumbs and swipes, the biggest problem might just be attendance. People might not go.Never going to happen.
Too many braindead ghouls would rather walk around chasing Pokemon than practice hard and reap the lifelong rewards of having a nice plush one handed backhand.
Tennis wizard
Legend
Yep you always have to pay up to $10 to hire a court just for an hour .. whereas you can play basketball,soccer,rugby and many other sports for free
bigserving
Hall of Fame
You should shop at Tennis Warehouse. Great products, great selection, great customer service, and great prices.
cknobman
Legend
Wow where are you getting these prices from?
32 cans of balls $120??? You can buy a 24 can case of Penn for $60. Heck I can buy the exact same can of Penns from my local Walmart for $2/can!
12 change of strings $300+??? What are you stringing with? Buy a stringer if you want to save money, I did. You can buy packages of string for as little as $4 or entire reels 660 foot for as little as $17!!
2 hour clinic $500?? fancy stuff. All the pros in my area charge $50/hour for private lessons. If you pay up for packages you can get that rate down into the $36/hour range. I can do 1.5 hour drills for $12.
I think you are grossly over exaggerating costs to try and validate your opinion.
C
Chadillac
Guest
MrRandom247
Semi-Pro
Tell you a cheap method.
Just steal everything, rackets, balls, sneaks, court time, kisses from casual mid week lady lovers, like a charming roguish tennis scamp.
Just steal everything, rackets, balls, sneaks, court time, kisses from casual mid week lady lovers, like a charming roguish tennis scamp.
macattack
Professional
You asked if tennis could be an everyman sport. What you describe above is training and costs for a kid who wants to make a career playing tennis. Or at least play college or local competitive tennis. That's not "everyman." Most kids who play baseball and basketball don't do it with a career in mind or training or intensive private coaching. They just go out and play because its fun.
So if you're simply talking about a sport that just about any kid can play, then I think tennis is already there. A decent pair of sneakers, a racquet, a few cans of balls. Public courts are free. Then go bug one of the older guys to teach you basic skills. No, the kid probably won't turn into Fed overnight, but he'll be learning a sport he can play for a lifetime. Nothing wrong with being a rec player.
I guess it's a matter of perspective. You don't need to take clinics or have a coach to learn to play well. Of course, you do need that if you want to play at a higher competitive level.
Edit: Wanted to clarify that I'm speaking of the U.S. here. So many free municipal and city courts.
Last edited:
Similar threads
