Can the Ashe carry Serena to a last glory?

Underdog

Professional
Kontaveit put blame on the crowd after her loss yesterday. It’s clear the crowd has been pumping Serena up, but it surely will affect every opponent she faces.
Can it be a deciding factor over her lack of match fitness?
 

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
Kontaveit put blame on the crowd after her loss yesterday. It’s clear the crowd has been pumping Serena up, but it surely will affect every opponent she faces.
Can it be a deciding factor over her lack of match fitness?
Disingenuous to say she blamed it. She said it was hard.

I am sure Serena gets a lot from the crowd. Her opponents will need to be able to deal with that. Quite frankly, if she does win it, they might as well discontinue women's tennis.
 

Thriller

Hall of Fame
This is the value of experience and it applies to both tours.
The top players have been in these situations dozens of times before. They know how to stay calm and not lose focus when the atmosphere is wild.
They know how to use the support when they have it and the negativity when they don't, to motivate themselves.
And we saw last night that the superior fitness and movement of a 26 year old is no match for the supreme talent and experience of a 41 year old.

Same on both tours. A fit Federer would probably handle a Casper Ruud in the fevered environment of Arthur Ashe as he has much greater experience and more talent.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Kontaveit put blame on the crowd after her loss yesterday. It’s clear the crowd has been pumping Serena up, but it surely will affect every opponent she faces.
Can it be a deciding factor over her lack of match fitness?
Well, Kontaveit is pretty much a simpleton if she actually didn't foresee that the crowd would support Serena.
 

SeeItHitIt

Professional
If Serena doesn’t have an opponent, I predict victory...put It this way, if she ‘wins’ the USOpen, Fonzi’s shark episode wI’ll be booted from the annals of made for TV silliness. She looks like she gets winded from a trip to the mailbox.
 
Well, Kontaveit is pretty much a simpleton if she actually didn't foresee that the crowd would support Serena.
She said she was knew the crowd support would be in Serena's favor and that's only fair, but the actual experience was still overwhelming. No one's really to blame here.

Williams is banking on the emotion carrying her through, but from the raducanu cinci match she looked way off of the fitness, movement and game of a few years back. It'd be epic goat send off like with sampras (unless it changes her mind).

 

Mark-Touch

Legend
Well, Kontaveit is pretty much a simpleton if she actually didn't foresee that the crowd would support Serena.
I didn't see the match.
But it's not so much as foreseeing crowd support as it is being able to DEAL WITH IT,
once it presents itself.
Kontaveit doesn't have the mental resolve to play her game and deal with extra mental issues
at the same time.
 

big ted

Legend
i think the odds of her winning go way down once she starts playing day matches so we'll see...
even her doubles matches are prime time at nite lol...
anyway i think the USTA scheduling reinforces what arthur ashe said years ago about equal prize money...
"tennis is 70% entertainment"
 

boredone3456

G.O.A.T.
Serena certainly is fighting her way through. But she's clearly not physically prime. She's also been helped by the fact her first round opponent hasn't won a match since like April and Kontaveit hasn't been past the 2nd round of a major this year (still suffering long term effects from covid maybe?) I would expect like...90 of the players in the draw could have beaten both of Serena's opponents.

I think Tomljanovic will be a test. She's playing well lately, has grit of her own, and likes to hit hard. We will see what Serena can do with her.
 

Mark-Touch

Legend
If Serena doesn’t have an opponent, I predict victory...put It this way, if she ‘wins’ the USOpen, Fonzi’s shark episode wI’ll be booted from the annals of made for TV silliness. She looks like she gets winded from a trip to the mailbox.
There are plenty of worthy opponents on her side of the draw.
The first one who can ignore the crowd support/noise will send Serena packing.
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
I can't really see her going all the way, but if she can stay healthy, which is probably a trick in itself, then she could go pretty deep. I actually think this next match might be one of the trickier ones she has given, even if Ajla is not really a hardcourt player, she at least doesn't strike me as a massive choker either. Likely it'll be Ons in the QF, and she absolutely is. I'm sure the dream semi for America would be Serena and Gauff (if Andreescu is playing well enough to get that far she'll kill her, and I think Garcia certainly would), and that sure would be interesting.

Anyway, if this keeps up any longer it could turn into some straight up Connors in '91 type stuff by the time it's over.
 

Pass750

Professional
Kontaveit wasn’t mentally tough enough to win yesterday, not to mention absolutely no variety in her game.
 

Lozo1016

Hall of Fame
Probably not 'all the way,' but it's one of the greatest home court advantages we've ever seen. When you factor in Serena's impending retirement, the size of the stadium, the lack of etiquette for the opponents, the desperation to see 24, it's a wild scene.

Beating Serena in Ashe is a different animal. I think back to Andreescu putting her fingers in her ears as the crowd went bananas during the final. Andreescu could handle it, but this atmosphere is probably a little fiercer than that. People like Pam Shriver and Chris Evert keep saying, "I've never heard Ashe this loud before" and it's only round 2.

Not only do you have to beat Serena, but you have to beat Rena's Army. It'll take a lot. Kontaveit thought she was ready, but she wasn't. It's like a Davis Cup tie, except if you lose in DC, there's always next year. This is it for Serena so there's a different level of finality.
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Disingenuous to say she blamed it. She said it was hard.

I am sure Serena gets a lot from the crowd. Her opponents will need to be able to deal with that. Quite frankly, if she does win it, they might as well discontinue women's tennis.
Thanks for the memory,
 

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
Well, Kontaveit is pretty much a simpleton if she actually didn't foresee that the crowd would support Serena.

I believe she said she anticipated the crowd support based on Serena's first match on AA, but despite the foreknowledge it was hard to deal with.
 

Gemini

Hall of Fame
Well, Kontaveit is pretty much a simpleton if she actually didn't foresee that the crowd would support Serena.

I don't think it was just about the pro-Serena crowd support, but there were many moments where the crowd seemed to be anti-Kontaveit. There were times when Kontaveit would counter and hit winners and the response of the crowd was nearly silent. There were also occasions where the crowd applauded Kontaveit's double faults.

When there seems to be no positive energy coming your way, it can be deflating. Kontaveit just simply couldn't block it out. Granted, Serena's level so far in the tournament has been above and beyond what we've seen previously up to this point.
 
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Bill Lobsalot

Hall of Fame
I don't think it was just about the pro-Serena crowd support, but there were many moments where the crowd seemed to be anti-Kontaveit. There were times when Kontaveit would counter and hit winners and the response of the crowd was nearly silent. There were also occasions where the crowd applauded Kontaveit's double faults.

When there seems to be no positive energy coming your way, it can be deflating. Kontaveit just simply couldn't block it out. Granted, Serena's level so far in the tournament has been above and beyond what we've seen previously up to this point.
Well said. Bottom line: Serena had 100 points, Anett 99 points. It was a well played match.
 

puppybutts

Hall of Fame
people forget that we've seen this before....serena looked terrible at RG 2018 and Cincy 2018. Proceeded to beat Barty, make Wimbledon and USO final and looked stunning for a woman not even a year out from having a c-section (read: ab muscles cut), complicated birth.

I don't think she can go all the way, but she was never gonna go out with the level she showed against Raducanu and Bencic.
 

Gemini

Hall of Fame
people forget that we've seen this before....serena looked terrible at RG 2018 and Cincy 2018. Proceeded to beat Barty, make Wimbledon and USO final and looked stunning for a woman not even a year out from having a c-section (read: ab muscles cut), complicated birth.

I don't think she can go all the way, but she was never gonna go out with the level she showed against Raducanu and Bencic.

We've also yet to see her play in the day time conditions. I think she'll be scheduled for night matches until the heat/humidity breaks in NYC which usually happens during the second week of the tournament.
 
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Rattie

Legend
I don't think it was just about the pro-Serena crowd support, but there were many moments where the crowd seemed to be anti-Kontaveit. There were times when Kontaveit would counter and hit winners and the response of the crowd was nearly silent. There were also occasions where the crowd applauded Kontaveit's double faults.

When there seems to be no positive energy coming your way, it can be deflating. Kontaveit just simply couldn't block it out. Granted, Serena's level so far in the tournament has been above and beyond what we've seen previously up to this point.
I watched the match and the crowd were awful. I say awful and I mean awful. There are partisan crowds but this was a whole new level. Deathly silence greeted a winning point by Kontaveit. Silence! I’ve never seen that before. Even a partisan crowd will applaud to some extent. Huge cheers on her UE’s. Boos on points which went her way. It was a horrible atmosphere for anyone to play in. I really felt for her. Even Serena at one point took issue with the crowds total lack of respect and what felt like bullying behaviour. Vile. I don’t envy anyone playing Serena in this tournament. Shame on the US Open audience.
 

Jokervich

Hall of Fame
I watched the match and the crowd were awful. I say awful and I mean awful. There are partisan crowds but this was a whole new level. Deathly silence greeted a winning point by Kontaveit. Silence! I’ve never seen that before. Even a partisan crowd will applaud to some extent. Huge cheers on her UE’s. Boos on points which went her way. It was a horrible atmosphere for anyone to play in. I really felt for her. Even Serena at one point took issue with the crowds total lack of respect and what felt like bullying behaviour. Vile. I don’t envy anyone playing Serena in this tournament. Shame on the US Open audience.
This is why Djokovic winning slams against partisan Fedal crowds make Djokovic's slam wins all the more extraordinary. No one gives him any credit for that though. Is it because he's not a woman? Or people don't like him? I'm not sure. But he doesn't get the congratulations he deserves for winning against such partisan hostile crowds. As soon as it's a woman, these crowds are a big deal, but because it's Djokovic, he should just "man up" and accept it ,right?
 

Rattie

Legend
This is why Djokovic winning slams against partisan Fedal crowds make Djokovic's slam wins all the more extraordinary. No one gives him any credit for that though. Is it because he's not a woman? Or people don't like him? I'm not sure. But he doesn't get the congratulations he deserves for winning against such partisan hostile crowds. As soon as it's a woman, these crowds are a big deal, but because it's Djokovic, he should just "man up" and accept it ,right?
No and for the record I didn’t say that. As I pointed out, I’ve seen partisan crowds and I’ve seen plenty of anti Djokovic crowds. He even got booed just walking on court at the FO this year.
Even in those circumstances he has support within those crowds. His winning shots are applauded even if they aren’t by the majority. This was different. Deathly silence greeted a winning shot. Never have I seen that before. And on and on it went. Totally out of order and I would say the same if Novak had to play in that kind of atmosphere. Fortunately I don’t think he has.
 

Gemini

Hall of Fame
I watched the match and the crowd were awful. I say awful and I mean awful. There are partisan crowds but this was a whole new level. Deathly silence greeted a winning point by Kontaveit. Silence! I’ve never seen that before. Even a partisan crowd will applaud to some extent. Huge cheers on her UE’s. Boos on points which went her way. It was a horrible atmosphere for anyone to play in. I really felt for her. Even Serena at one point took issue with the crowds total lack of respect and what felt like bullying behaviour. Vile. I don’t envy anyone playing Serena in this tournament. Shame on the US Open audience.

So..not to change the subject but somewhat related, I attended the Catherine Harrison/Aryna Sabalenka first round match on Monday and you could have sworn that Sabalenka was the American player. Very little support for Harrison but an out and out love affair with Sabalenka. Credit to Sabalenka because she seems to be very nice person in general. She took plenty of photos with fans and signed autographs after the win, but the crowd cheered for her during the match as if she was playing under the U.S. flag. Someone who walked past actually said aloud "They're cheering for her over the American." It was sort of surreal.
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Do you think she is pregnant again? Trying to pull an AO 17?
Twin Magic,
dc1vnqi-f6874275-60e7-4074-a860-ef3925ac0a4c.jpg
 
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Purestriker

Legend
This is why Djokovic winning slams against partisan Fedal crowds make Djokovic's slam wins all the more extraordinary. No one gives him any credit for that though. Is it because he's not a woman? Or people don't like him? I'm not sure. But he doesn't get the congratulations he deserves for winning against such partisan hostile crowds. As soon as it's a woman, these crowds are a big deal, but because it's Djokovic, he should just "man up" and accept it ,right?
Yes, otherwise he is weak.
 

CHIP72

Semi-Pro
We've also yet to see her play in the day time conditions. I think she'll be scheduled for night matches until the heat/humidity breaks in NYC which usually happens during the second week of the tournament.
Serena is being scheduled for night matches (specifically early night matches) to maximize the U.S. TV audience. The only possible day session match she may play would be in the 4th round on Sunday.
 

No_Kwan_Do

Semi-Pro
I get that ESPN and the USTA are trying to milk the Serena-train for all it's worth one last time, but the some of the commentary and coverage has been disgraceful towards her opponents.

The sooner she gets put out by the first opponent that has a little steel about them and can silence the Ashe crowd and end the circus, the sooner we all get back to talking about the other 60+ players still left in the draw that deserve some coverage.
 

jimmy8

Legend
If Serena opponents are reading this, if you drop shot, you will win. Kontaveit hit the ball hard on a short shot when Serena was 5 feet behind the baseline, Serena took 2-3 steps to the side and hit a winner. If Kontaveit drop shotted, Serena was at least 7 steps away and surely would not have gotten the shot off. I love playing slower players, I just drop shot and destroy them, even when they are higher level players than me.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
I get that ESPN and the USTA are trying to milk the Serena-train for all it's worth one last time, but the some of the commentary and coverage has been disgraceful towards her opponents.

The sooner she gets put out by the first opponent that has a little steel about them and can silence the Ashe crowd and end the circus, the sooner we all get back to talking about the other 60+ players still left in the draw that deserve some coverage.

Im really tired of Mary Carillo especially
 

Gemini

Hall of Fame
Serena is being scheduled for night matches (specifically early night matches) to maximize the U.S. TV audience. The only possible day session match she may play would be in the 4th round on Sunday.

Taking the obvious marketing play of tv viewership (and ticket sales) out of the equation, scheduling Serena in the best climate conditions possible just makes sense in supporting all causes (her fitness level, tv viewership, etc). I dare say that tv audience viewership is maximized for every sport by scheduling after American business hours. That just makes sense from a financial perspective.

Taking viewership (and tickets sales) out of the conversation, the obvious play for the tournament is to give Serena as favorable playing conditions as possible. By doing that, she has a greater chance of winning each match. Her winning just continues to drive everything else -- maximize tv audience, generate more ticket sales, etc.

And if she should make it to Sunday, I'll bet she's scheduled for an evening match.
 
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THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
the sooner we all get back to talking about the other 60+ players still left in the draw that deserve some coverage.

Few--very few attendees and home viewers give a rat's ass about the majority of those 60+ players. They never cared about them to that degree unless someone suddenly had a significant breakout (e.g.. McEnroe's 1977 run as a qualifier to the semifinals at Wimbledon, et. al.). Coverage of Serena is not dictating the lack of interest in the majority of players.
 

heftylefty

Hall of Fame
I am a Serena fan from way back. But I hate the behavior of the crowd in Ashe. It's an embarrassment to the name on the building. I am cool with people cheering for their favorite player; I am not cool with applauding a player's faults and unforced errors. If cannot be courteous, go watch another sport.
 

Federev

G.O.A.T.
I am a Serena fan from way back. But I hate the behavior of the crowd in Ashe. It's an embarrassment to the name on the building. I am cool with people cheering for their favorite player; I am not cool with applauding a player's faults and unforced errors. If cannot be courteous, go watch another sport.
Is not cool.

Does it happen more in America than other places?
 
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