Can Wawrinka Save Tennis? You bet he can

C

Chopin

Legend
Ladies and gentlemen,

Some of us are tired of Nadal. We're tired of him not because he's beaten a 32 year old man, but because he's bad for tennis (for you boys out there who are obsessed with the "GOAT debate," stay in school and find a girlfriend). Why is he bad for tennis? The reasons are many:

1) He behaves like a WWF wrestler on the court, setting a terrible example for juniors. There's nothing sportsmanlike about chest bumps, stare-downs and grunting as loudly as Maria Sharapova during a point. Do any of the other top men grunt as loudly as Nadal? There's nothing sportsmanlike about making your opponent wait for you before and during matches as some type of mind game. Wait, I hear you objecting: it's a competitive sport! Yes, but Nadal violates the sport's rules. This isn't the WWF.

2) He engages in cheating and gamesmanship. Uncle Tony has publicly admitted to coaching Nadal during matches, and even worse, he violates the time rules excessively. Personally, I'd feel like a cheater if I consistently made my opponents wait for me beyond the time allowed by the rules. And I do call on the ATP to enforce the rules.

3) He professes to advocate on behalf of the game when in reality his "solutions" are designed to help his career. He wants slower courts (they're already slow), he wants a shorter season (okay, but lower ranked players need these tournaments--if you want a shorter season, play less), he wants the year ending tournament played on clay (because we have so many fast, indoor tournaments already, right?, he wants umpires who "understand tennis" (i.e. he wants umpires who don't enforce the time rules).

4) The perpetual "underdog" persona. News flash! You're not an underdog in any match you play Rafael Nadal. The knees, the blister, the fatigue--we're over it! It comes across as phony and simple-minded--you haven't been a genuine underdog in years.

What the game needs is a new champion, a real underdog. The game needs Stan Wawrinka to beat Nadal. I think he's playing well enough to do it, and let's wish him well here. Post your favorite Wawrinka moments and well wishes in this thread!

-Chopin

130906193332-wawrinka-single-image-cut.jpg
 
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Wawrinka will be the public's favorite to beat Rafa but he needs a miracle. Maybe two or three miracles. Rafa looks unbeatable. If Stan wins this final it might be the greatest upset in sports since Mike Tyson lost to James Buster Douglas.
 
Chopin good to see you man. The grunting is really disturbing. I can not watch the WTA shriekers and when Nadal started that screaming and bellowing the TV got turned off immediately.

Radwanska is an absolute joy to watch. Quiet and dignified. I like that girl.

Such a nice story if Stan wins the AO.
 
Tennis is in fine condition now, but Nadal might monopolize it for the next few years. If Rafa keeps winning major F and SF in straight sets, fans might lose interest.
 
Chopin, you should want Nadal to keep winning. Remember, before he was a champion, he had all those pirate shorts? Yeah, as he won, he cleaned up his act. Maybe another hundred majors on his belt, and he'll behave like Laver. :)
 
swordtennis said:
Chopin good to see you man. The grunting is really disturbing. I can not watch the WTA shriekers and when Nadal started that screaming and bellowing the TV got turned off immediately.

Radwanska is an absolute joy to watch. Quiet and dignified. I like that girl.

Such a nice story if Stan wins the AO.
Click to expand...

Same thoughts here, swordtennis. The game needs some more grace and dignity at the moment. I was reading a Wordsworth sonnet the other day that begins, "Milton! thou shouldst be living at this hour: England hath need of thee" and I couldn't help substituting the name of a number of past greats in there and thinking about the sonnet in terms of tennis.
 
Chopin said:
Ladies and gentlemen,

Some of us are tired of Nadal. We're tired of him not because he's beaten a 32 year old man, but because he's bad for tennis (for you boys out there who are obsessed with the "GOAT debate," stay in school and find a girlfriend). Why is he bad for tennis? The reasons are many:

1) He behaves like a WWF wrestler on the court, setting a terrible example for juniors. There's nothing sportsmanlike about chest bumps, stare-downs and grunting as loudly as Maria Sharapova during a point. Do any of the other top men grunt as loudly as Nadal? There's nothing sportsmanlike about making your opponent wait for you before and during matches as some type of mind game. Wait, I hear you objecting: it's a competitive sport! Yes, but Nadal violates the sport's rules. This isn't the WWF.

2) He engages in cheating and gamesmanship. Uncle Tony has publicly admitted to coaching Nadal during matches, and even worse, he violates the time rules excessively. Personally, I'd feel like a cheater if I consistently made my opponents wait for me beyond the time allowed by the rules. And I do call on the ATP to enforce the rules.

3) He professes to advocate on behalf of the game when in reality his "solutions" are designed to help his career. He wants slower courts (they're already slow), he wants a shorter season (okay, but lower ranked players need these tournaments--if you want a shorter season, play less), he wants the year ending tournament played on clay (because we have so many fast, indoor tournaments already, right?, he wants umpires who "understand tennis" (i.e. he wants umpires who don't enforce the time rules).

4) The perpetual "underdog" persona. News flash! You're not an underdog in any match you play Rafael Nadal. The knees, the blister, the fatigue--we're over it! It comes across as phony and simple-minded--you haven't been a genuine underdog in years.

What the game needs is a new champion, a real underdog. The game needs Stan Wawrinka to beat Nadal. I think he's playing well enough to do it, and let's wish him well here. Post your favorite Wawrinka moments and well wishes in this thread!

-Chopin
Click to expand...

Well said. Nadal has mostly profited, because the ATP did everything to get a rivalry.
I wonder, how many slams Nadal would have won, if the rules had been forced. In my humble opinion one can not be called goat, if he cheats himself to victory and has no respect for the opponent.
But as we know money makes the world go round, not integrity and ethics. It is a world not only in sports, where cheaters are rewarded.
It is too late to start a petition now. But as many fans feel cheated, it would not be bad to pronounce our feelings in a letter, also asking why the ATP do not enforce their own rules, putting the outsiders in an even more difficult situation against a heavy favourite.
 
What if Wawrinka wins (fantasy world) and then beats Fed in an upcoming slam (not such a fantasy) ?
He will be ranked higher than Fed come Monday.

Think about it, Stan can go 5 sets with Djokovic 3 times. Nadal and Djokovic have very similar styles. So just maybe...
yes, I know he is 0 for 12 or something like that.
 
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Chopin said:
Ladies and gentlemen,

Some of us are tired of Nadal. We're tired of him not because he's beaten a 32 year old man, but because he's bad for tennis (for you boys out there who are obsessed with the "GOAT debate," stay in school and find a girlfriend). Why is he bad for tennis? The reasons are many:

1) He behaves like a WWF wrestler on the court, setting a terrible example for juniors. There's nothing sportsmanlike about chest bumps, stare-downs and grunting as loudly as Maria Sharapova during a point. Do any of the other top men grunt as loudly as Nadal? There's nothing sportsmanlike about making your opponent wait for you before and during matches as some type of mind game. Wait, I hear you objecting: it's a competitive sport! Yes, but Nadal violates the sport's rules. This isn't the WWF.

2) He engages in cheating and gamesmanship. Uncle Tony has publicly admitted to coaching Nadal during matches, and even worse, he violates the time rules excessively. Personally, I'd feel like a cheater if I consistently made my opponents wait for me beyond the time allowed by the rules. And I do call on the ATP to enforce the rules.

3) He professes to advocate on behalf of the game when in reality his "solutions" are designed to help his career. He wants slower courts (they're already slow), he wants a shorter season (okay, but lower ranked players need these tournaments--if you want a shorter season, play less), he wants the year ending tournament played on clay (because we have so many fast, indoor tournaments already, right?, he wants umpires who "understand tennis" (i.e. he wants umpires who don't enforce the time rules).

4) The perpetual "underdog" persona. News flash! You're not an underdog in any match you play Rafael Nadal. The knees, the blister, the fatigue--we're over it! It comes across as phony and simple-minded--you haven't been a genuine underdog in years.

What the game needs is a new champion, a real underdog. The game needs Stan Wawrinka to beat Nadal. I think he's playing well enough to do it, and let's wish him well here. Post your favorite Wawrinka moments and well wishes in this thread!

-Chopin

130906193332-wawrinka-single-image-cut.jpg
Click to expand...

Good post, again! Come on Stan, beat this chump and brake him, he will cry if he doesnt win this.
 
Chopin said:
Ladies and gentlemen,

Some of us are tired of Nadal. We're tired of him not because he's beaten a 32 year old man, but because he's bad for tennis (for you boys out there who are obsessed with the "GOAT debate," stay in school and find a girlfriend). Why is he bad for tennis? The reasons are many:

1) He behaves like a WWF wrestler on the court, setting a terrible example for juniors. There's nothing sportsmanlike about chest bumps, stare-downs and grunting as loudly as Maria Sharapova during a point. Do any of the other top men grunt as loudly as Nadal? There's nothing sportsmanlike about making your opponent wait for you before and during matches as some type of mind game. Wait, I hear you objecting: it's a competitive sport! Yes, but Nadal violates the sport's rules. This isn't the WWF.

2) He engages in cheating and gamesmanship. Uncle Tony has publicly admitted to coaching Nadal during matches, and even worse, he violates the time rules excessively. Personally, I'd feel like a cheater if I consistently made my opponents wait for me beyond the time allowed by the rules. And I do call on the ATP to enforce the rules.

3) He professes to advocate on behalf of the game when in reality his "solutions" are designed to help his career. He wants slower courts (they're already slow), he wants a shorter season (okay, but lower ranked players need these tournaments--if you want a shorter season, play less), he wants the year ending tournament played on clay (because we have so many fast, indoor tournaments already, right?, he wants umpires who "understand tennis" (i.e. he wants umpires who don't enforce the time rules).

4) The perpetual "underdog" persona. News flash! You're not an underdog in any match you play Rafael Nadal. The knees, the blister, the fatigue--we're over it! It comes across as phony and simple-minded--you haven't been a genuine underdog in years.

What the game needs is a new champion, a real underdog. The game needs Stan Wawrinka to beat Nadal. I think he's playing well enough to do it, and let's wish him well here. Post your favorite Wawrinka moments and well wishes in this thread!

-Chopin

130906193332-wawrinka-single-image-cut.jpg
Click to expand...
this is just perfectly put. thank you for educating the uneducated.
 
You can come up with whatever eloquent "bad for tennis" argument you want, but the obvious reason for this abomination of a thread is that Fed fans are some of the saltiest, most arrogant fans in pro sports. Nadal owning your god doesn't make him "bad for tennis," it's time to deal with it.
 
Chopin said:
Ladies and gentlemen,

Some of us are tired of Nadal. We're tired of him not because he's beaten a 32 year old man, but because he's bad for tennis (for you boys out there who are obsessed with the "GOAT debate," stay in school and find a girlfriend). Why is he bad for tennis? The reasons are many:

1) He behaves like a WWF wrestler on the court, setting a terrible example for juniors. There's nothing sportsmanlike about chest bumps, stare-downs and grunting as loudly as Maria Sharapova during a point. Do any of the other top men grunt as loudly as Nadal? There's nothing sportsmanlike about making your opponent wait for you before and during matches as some type of mind game. Wait, I hear you objecting: it's a competitive sport! Yes, but Nadal violates the sport's rules. This isn't the WWF.

2) He engages in cheating and gamesmanship. Uncle Tony has publicly admitted to coaching Nadal during matches, and even worse, he violates the time rules excessively. Personally, I'd feel like a cheater if I consistently made my opponents wait for me beyond the time allowed by the rules. And I do call on the ATP to enforce the rules.

3) He professes to advocate on behalf of the game when in reality his "solutions" are designed to help his career. He wants slower courts (they're already slow), he wants a shorter season (okay, but lower ranked players need these tournaments--if you want a shorter season, play less), he wants the year ending tournament played on clay (because we have so many fast, indoor tournaments already, right?, he wants umpires who "understand tennis" (i.e. he wants umpires who don't enforce the time rules).

4) The perpetual "underdog" persona. News flash! You're not an underdog in any match you play Rafael Nadal. The knees, the blister, the fatigue--we're over it! It comes across as phony and simple-minded--you haven't been a genuine underdog in years.

What the game needs is a new champion, a real underdog. The game needs Stan Wawrinka to beat Nadal. I think he's playing well enough to do it, and let's wish him well here. Post your favorite Wawrinka moments and well wishes in this thread!

-Chopin

130906193332-wawrinka-single-image-cut.jpg
Click to expand...


LOL!!!!! Wake up Rip Van Winkle, father time isn't waiting for you to wind your pocket watch and catch up.

Tennis isn't about grace or beauty, it isn't figure skating, it's boxing with balls.

To expect a game to be played only for your viewing pleasure is myopic and outdated.

The APT sets the rules and the umpire enforces them, the view of an armchair umpire doesn't count.

Don't like Nadal don't watch his games instead of sit, carp and complain... sheese!
 
It's really ironic that Nadal and Wawrinka are playing because Nadal would've played Djokovic had he won, and I'd say the Djoker would take it. But since it's Wawrinka, I'm 80% sure Nadal wins the title, probably in 4 sets. This is a fine example of rock-paper-scissors. It just sucks for any one-handed backhander that faces that guy.

I have to admit, I really want Wawrinka to win not because I dislike Nadal's game or his odd on-court rituals-- I'd just really like to see others competing and seriously challenging the top guys instead of predicting and inevitably getting the same three or four guys winning all the majors. I mean, when is the last time a Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, or Murray didn't win a major? Del Po did it, but he can't even get to the finals! I'm really really going for Stan the underdog, although I am wary.
 
No doubt Stan winning would be good for tennis....even if it was against Federer in the final. Anybody besides Federer, Nadal, Murray or Djokovic winning would be a good thing imo.
 
Problem with Warinka is that he does Not believe he can be one of the all time Greats. He has this inferiority complex because of Federer and what he has done. so unless he can re-program his brain, he will never win a major
 
No. I'm glad I'm working on Sunday so I won't see an utterly tedious slam end with another boring Nadal victory (playing at 20% of his AO 09 level for example)
 
Tennis is a gentle men's sport. There are very few gentle men's sport left.

People who want to be "intense" and "passionate" by behaving certain way can choose soccer or American football. Please leave this game alone.
 
Chopin said:
Ladies and gentlemen,

Some of us are tired of Nadal. We're tired of him not because he's beaten a 32 year old man, but because he's bad for tennis (for you boys out there who are obsessed with the "GOAT debate," stay in school and find a girlfriend). Why is he bad for tennis? The reasons are many:

1) He behaves like a WWF wrestler on the court, setting a terrible example for juniors. There's nothing sportsmanlike about chest bumps, stare-downs and grunting as loudly as Maria Sharapova during a point. Do any of the other top men grunt as loudly as Nadal? There's nothing sportsmanlike about making your opponent wait for you before and during matches as some type of mind game. Wait, I hear you objecting: it's a competitive sport! Yes, but Nadal violates the sport's rules. This isn't the WWF.

2) He engages in cheating and gamesmanship. Uncle Tony has publicly admitted to coaching Nadal during matches, and even worse, he violates the time rules excessively. Personally, I'd feel like a cheater if I consistently made my opponents wait for me beyond the time allowed by the rules. And I do call on the ATP to enforce the rules.

3) He professes to advocate on behalf of the game when in reality his "solutions" are designed to help his career. He wants slower courts (they're already slow), he wants a shorter season (okay, but lower ranked players need these tournaments--if you want a shorter season, play less), he wants the year ending tournament played on clay (because we have so many fast, indoor tournaments already, right?, he wants umpires who "understand tennis" (i.e. he wants umpires who don't enforce the time rules).

4) The perpetual "underdog" persona. News flash! You're not an underdog in any match you play Rafael Nadal. The knees, the blister, the fatigue--we're over it! It comes across as phony and simple-minded--you haven't been a genuine underdog in years.

What the game needs is a new champion, a real underdog. The game needs Stan Wawrinka to beat Nadal. I think he's playing well enough to do it, and let's wish him well here. Post your favorite Wawrinka moments and well wishes in this thread!

-Chopin

130906193332-wawrinka-single-image-cut.jpg
Click to expand...

What a well articulated post, just a pleasure to read. You sure do have a way with words. Allow me to take my hat off to you, good sir.

But I hate to burst your bubble, Wawrinka isn't doing s**t against Nadal. He would do well to win 1 set.
 
mawashi said:
LOL!!!!! Wake up Rip Van Winkle, father time isn't waiting for you to wind your pocket watch and catch up.

Tennis isn't about grace or beauty, it isn't figure skating, it's boxing with balls.

To expect a game to be played only for your viewing pleasure is myopic and outdated.

The APT sets the rules and the umpire enforces them, the view of an armchair umpire doesn't count.

Don't like Nadal don't watch his games instead of sit, carp and complain... sheese!
Click to expand...

Tennis has always been a gentleman's game, but Nadal came along and thoroughly ruined it. Go watch ice hockey or something, don't tell us to watch something else because tennis has never been a sport for beefed up gym junkies.
 
OTMPut said:
Tennis is a gentle men's sport. There are very few gentle men's sport left.

People who want to be "intense" and "passionate" by behaving certain way can choose soccer or American football. Please leave this game alone.
Click to expand...

Haha exactly, that's what soccer/rugby/ice hockey/field hockey are for.
 
If tennis is boxing, then Fed is Ali and Nadal is Frazer.

He floated like a butterfly and got stung by a bee.
 
Like it or not, Nadal is going to win another slam in a few hours. There is nothing that Stan can do about it, or that Roger could have done about it. The problem is that there is only one guy who can challenge Nadal for a Slam title, and he is gone. That is what is truly bad for the sport.
 
Thankfully Federer's fans are not Federer...as I respect Federer's achievements and beautiful game but his fans leave a lot to be desired recently.

I've noticed some *****y, immature, arrogant and pompous comments recently.
 
monfed said:
Tennis has always been a gentleman's game, but Nadal came along and thoroughly ruined it. Go watch ice hockey or something, don't tell us to watch something else because tennis has never been a sport for beefed up gym junkies.
Click to expand...

Either your were born with rose colored glasses or history wasn't one of your strong subjects huh?

There were some real "gentlemen" like McEnroe, Safin, Connors, Hanescu, Nalbandian etc yet a 1 man Spanish armada somehow managed to ruin tennis... really???

Please don't confuse "gentlemen" with ugly tennis vs ugly players.
 
OTMPut said:
Tennis is a gentle men's sport. There are very few gentle men's sport left.

People who want to be "intense" and "passionate" by behaving certain way can choose soccer or American football. Please leave this game alone.
Click to expand...

What an utterly idiotic argument. Intensity and passion are one of the biggest reasons why sports are as widely loved as they are. It's not ****ing chess or checkers. It's athletic competition. To become the best, athletes have to push their bodies to the absolute limit, and be ruthless about it. No one gives a crap about how pretty your slice backhand is or how smoothly you push your hair back after winning a point. Stop trying to hide behind the "gentlemen" part of the game just because the game's biggest pseudo-gentleman has consistently been getting thumped for a decade by a player you're not a fan of.
 
Last edited:
Crose said:
What an utterly idiotic argument. Intensity and passion are one of the biggest reasons why sports are as widely loved as they are. It's not ****ing chess or checkers. It's athletic competition. To become the best, athletes have to push their bodies to the absolute limit, and be ruthless about it. No one gives a crap about how pretty your slice backhand is or how smoothly you push your hair back after winning a point. Stop trying to hide behind the "gentlemen" part of the game just because the game's biggest pseudo-gentleman has consistently been getting thumped for a decade by a player you're not a fan of.
Click to expand...

Yes they do actually, that's exactly why Fed has the biggest fanbase in the world because simply put they like watching his style. Even now with Ralph being #1, watch him get beaten to the post for fans favourite award. What's the H2H for that, 9-1 or something? :lol:
 
mawashi said:
Either your were born with rose colored glasses or history wasn't one of your strong subjects huh?

There were some real "gentlemen" like McEnroe, Safin, Connors, Hanescu, Nalbandian etc yet a 1 man Spanish armada somehow managed to ruin tennis... really???

Please don't confuse "gentlemen" with ugly tennis vs ugly players.
Click to expand...

Swearing? That's digressing from the point that Ralph is all physicality and zero elegance and to make matters worse, behaves like a self-entitled punk on court.
 
Not sure about saving tennis, Stan isn't exactly 20 years old, but I see your point. Stan plays are great brand of tennis, I am sure purists of the game love his backhand and overall approach.

If he wins it will be a very very refreshing change to the robotic, mechanical modern game and it's exponents, namely Nadal, Djokovic & Murray.

Hopefully Dimitrov can improve and save tennis.
 
Not sure about saving tennis, Stan isn't exactly 20 years old, but I see your point. Stan plays a great brand of tennis, I am sure purists of the game love his backhand and overall approach.

If he wins it will be a very very refreshing change to the robotic, mechanical modern game and it's greatest exponents, namely Nadal, Djokovic & Murray.

Hopefully Dimitrov can improve and save tennis.
 
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monfed said:
Swearing? That's digressing from the point that Ralph is all physicality and zero elegance and to make matters worse, behaves like a self-entitled punk on court.
Click to expand...

Point proven... myopic POV.

If Nadal is such a brat why would he win the Stefan Edberg sportmanship or the Arthur Ashe humanitarian award?

If your one and only argument is you don't like Nadal's brand of tennis and can't come up with any valid substance then stick to it an beat it to death by all means like a teenage fanboy.
 
monfed said:
Tennis has always been a gentleman's game, but Nadal came along and thoroughly ruined it. Go watch ice hockey or something, don't tell us to watch something else because tennis has never been a sport for beefed up gym junkies.
Click to expand...

What? Having a bit more muscle is the norm in modern tennis and not just with arrival of Nadal.

Google practice pics of guys like Soderling, Tsonga, Andreev, Verdasco, Monaco, Haas and so on. Nadal looks like a joke compared to them. Most guys you see on show courts are absolutely ripped, some even have quite some mass going on, like Tsonga or Soderling.

To give just one visual example, this is Andreev:

IgorAndreev51.jpg


Has a two-hander like Nadal.
Has a massive topspin forehand like Nadal.
He even plays with a Babolat.
In many ways he is a righty Nadal with more muscle added on so why doesn't he sit on 13 slams?
 
If Wawrinka can't save tennis, do some posters around here promise to not show their faces until WB time or so?

Cause you know, their fav sport will be killed by Nadal so what's the point really?
 
I've seen Wawrinka's interview, and he's already shooting himself in the foot. He is planning to play as aggressively as possible. That is the lowest percentage way to play, and especially for a nervous debutant, and most likely to result in a straight sets Nadal victory. This approach has failed about a hundred times, because Nadal makes the court look very small. Tsonga beat Nadal with a very aggressive plan at 2008 AO, but that was when Nadal was not as great on hardcourts, and Tsonga was charging the net (unlike Wawrinka's style).

Bring it on==========>
legend.jpg
 
NADALRECORD said:
I've seen Wawrinka's interview, and he's already shooting himself in the foot. He is planning to play as aggressively as possible. That is the lowest percentage way to play, and especially for a nervous debutant, and most likely to result in a straight sets Nadal victory. This approach has failed about a hundred times, because Nadal makes the court look very small. Tsonga beat Nadal with a very aggressive plan at 2008 AO, but that was when Nadal was not as great on hardcourts, and Tsonga was charging the net (unlike Wawrinka's style).

Bring it on==========>
legend.jpg
Click to expand...

the best win WTF's as well
 
NADALRECORD said:
I've seen Wawrinka's interview, and he's already shooting himself in the foot. He is planning to play as aggressively as possible. That is the lowest percentage way to play, and especially for a nervous debutant, and most likely to result in a straight sets Nadal victory.
Click to expand...

What Wawrinka is doing is exactly the correct approach when an underdog is facing a favourite. Statistics support it.

Yes, he MAY still lose in straight sets... but he night also win. However, if he plays tentatively and defensively vs. Nadal he WILL lose in straight sets.
 
Just because you don't play with non-stop aggression, it doesn't mean you have to play tentatively/defensively. You don't have to choose one extreme or the other. Its called "playing each ball on its merits". But, it takes a high tennis IQ, and not many people can do it. I honestly don't see how Wawrinka can win. His backhand is an "unforced" error machine when he plays Nadal. Federer's backhand at least stays in the court for most of a Nadal match. Wawrinka had his best shot on Nadal's worst surface (World Tour Finals), but I don't see what shot he has in Australia. Anyway, speculation means nothing of course.
 
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