Deon Sanders
Legend
The scariest thing in tennis is drawing Roger Federer before the QFs of any grand slam
Might as well not show up
Might as well not show up
Can we all agree that Rafa on clay is the scariest thing in tennis, bar none?
- Thread starter BlueClayGOAT
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- clay nadal rafael nadal
D
Deleted member 716271
Guest
Yes obviously.
A counter argument could be made (not against the premise, but against its relative impressiveness) that a dominant clay courter has an edge over a dominant grass courter (Fed in this instance) because of the nature of the surface. In other words, if one is a great retriever, hits with consistent spin etc. he has more of a chance to just repeat that ad infinitum than a great grass or hard court player who has a greater chance of being upset.
The flip side is Rafa deserves credit for his (much maligned) style of play leading to this result. It certainly was NOT the case before his performances on clay. The best player on a single surface was Sampras on grass and then would be Federer on grass. Borg on clay might have a shout, but I think would be considered beneath the preceding 2 on a given surface, and certainly not clearly ahead. Rafa is one of a kind in this regard.
A counter argument could be made (not against the premise, but against its relative impressiveness) that a dominant clay courter has an edge over a dominant grass courter (Fed in this instance) because of the nature of the surface. In other words, if one is a great retriever, hits with consistent spin etc. he has more of a chance to just repeat that ad infinitum than a great grass or hard court player who has a greater chance of being upset.
The flip side is Rafa deserves credit for his (much maligned) style of play leading to this result. It certainly was NOT the case before his performances on clay. The best player on a single surface was Sampras on grass and then would be Federer on grass. Borg on clay might have a shout, but I think would be considered beneath the preceding 2 on a given surface, and certainly not clearly ahead. Rafa is one of a kind in this regard.
TenS_Ace
Professional
unequivocally YES...unless it's on BLUE CLAY then..NO
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
There's longer Lord of The Rings marathons.
ICanBeSerious
Rookie
Tennis_Hands
Banned
OP, since you have that username I am sure you will enjoy this :
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Always injured.
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Certainly when they have 'clay' in their usernames, the signs seems to indicate a troll account.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Even more so when they have Federer / Federer - related theme as their avatar.
Inescapably, in a matter of max 3 posts (preferably the first), they state that they are Federer fans/respect Federer and then go on to collapse into mediocrity and trolling.
It is like they need that as a preparation to set themselves for their own trolling.
The misery is real for those people.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
that's just asking for a Soderling comments, which will be met with Rafa not being at his peak comments, which will be met with excuses comments.
With that out of the way, I think scariness isn't necessarily tied to chances of winning, though it's certainly the main factor. This thread is basically equating levels of success to level of scariness to opponents to evaluate Nadal on clay as the scariest. This might be true, but is a little redundant. Other successful players may be just as scary in their own way.
Scary prospects = The smothering attack of Sampras or Fed at Wimbledon, A huge server or big hitter on their best day and, of course, the relentless defense and counterpunching of peak Nadal on clay. Against Nadal your fear is that you will not be able to produce the tennis required to overcome the unprecedented resistance and you will be tortuously suffocated and crushed regardless of your shotmaking while you contribute to the grave digging yourself - the latter point may sting the most. Against Samperer, your fear is the relentless offensive onslaught taking the racket out of your hand and making you feel like you are contributing absolutely nothing to the world of tennis. The feeling might perhaps be the equivalent to the jovial references guitarists make to wanting to throw their guitars in the bin and quit upon seeing a virtuoso level of performance that shlts on their own. This also applies to some extent to Nadal, and Nadal's fear factor to Federer and slightly less to Sampras.
Pick your poison.
SinjinCooper
Hall of Fame
Mayweather. Karelin. Gable. Phelps. Bolt. Jon Jones. Edwin Moses.
Much better choices out there than taking our chances with the second best tennis player of his era.
MatsPhilander
Legend
Jon Snow
Semi-Pro
No one is scary as Nadal on Philipe Chatrier, a 10 RG champion who's beaten all his rivals in his peak (Federer and Djokovic). It's a sure bet to win any Tennis match. Federer isn't a sure bet at Wimbledon like Nadal is at RG lol what a joke. And you know nothing about Nadal because he's not a counter puncher on clay, he can hit hell lot of winners through his top spin forehands.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
He is. He is already a legend on clay. No one comparable on any surface. 10 in one slam proves it.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
BlueClayGOAT
Semi-Pro
Yes, I agree about it being harder to dominate on grass vs clay.
As for Sampras vs Fed on grass, that's an entirely different topic.
BlueClayGOAT
Semi-Pro
Maybe not Bolt or Phelps, because athletics/swimming are very different in nature from tennis or any other sport less dependent on direct physical prowess. It's very conceivable that aliens would easily be able to run faster than Bolt. But it's less probable that an alien would be as good as Rafa at tennis right out of the gate, since tennis is a more structured sport in terms of rules, constraints, and restrictions.
D
Deleted member 716271
Guest
I did not mean to imply that Sampras was better on grass, I can see how my post may have given that impression. I rate Fed above slightly overall and about equal in peak level.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
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BlueClayGOAT
Semi-Pro
It seems to me more enjoyable, wittier even, to have a tongue-in-cheek-laugh at the greatest tennis player I have seen through my avatar name, instead of being a blind worshipper who is incapable of accepting that he isn't perfect.Even more so when they have Federer / Federer - related theme as their avatar.
Inescapably, in a matter of max 3 posts (preferably the first), they state that they are Federer fans/respect Federer and then go on to collapse into mediocrity and trolling.
It is like they need that as a preparation to set themselves for their own trolling.
The misery is real for those people.
When knowledgeable, rational fandom descends into mindless fanboyism, it's bad for any sport.
Is Federer my favorite tennis player? Yes. Enough to make me scream my lungs out with joy when he beat Rafa at the AO.
Do I think he's the best I've seen? Yes.
Does that make me believe he's flawless? No.
Does that stop me from appreciating other players? No.
You are so anxious in your fanboyism that you see trolls everywhere you look. I don't feel the need to defend Federer from perceived attacks on obscure online message boards because it is both pointless and shows a certain deep insecurity. Federer doesn't need a validation of his incredible genius from members of this website.
Also, it wouldn't really help to say that I'm a new member of this site, with no prior accounts whatsoever, would it?
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Even more so when they have Federer / Federer - related theme as their avatar.
Inescapably, in a matter of max 3 posts (preferably the first), they state that they are Federer fans/respect Federer and then go on to collapse into mediocrity and trolling.
It is like they need that as a preparation to set themselves for their own trolling.
The misery is real for those people.
Yes, those fakers that pose as Federer fans then go on trolling the great man are kinda annoying. Lucky there's guys like me with an honest avatar.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
BlueClayGOAT
Semi-Pro
Well, I'd probably put Fed just a bit ahead as well- because he did win Wimbledon playing 2 very different styles of tennis in 2003 and 2017. On the faster grass, it would be about even I guess- Sampras could certainly overwhelm almost anyone with his S&V game on it. Federer, too, is exceptional on faster surfaces- he might be able to take a few away from Pete.
On slower grass, Fed has the edge due to better movement, a better baseline game, and better groundstrokes on both sides.
E36BMWM3
Hall of Fame
10 ROLAND GARROS titles... i think that says it all.What if that match was against 2009 soderling?
BlueClayGOAT
Semi-Pro
It's amazing how a fact is seen as trolling by some users here. Rafa has just been more unbeatable on clay than Fed on grass. That's verifiable, mathematically provable fact.
God, you guys really need to stop 'protecting' your favorite players- be it Fed or Rafa or Nole or whoever else- and start participating in some engaging, enjoyable exchange on this forum.
God, you guys really need to stop 'protecting' your favorite players- be it Fed or Rafa or Nole or whoever else- and start participating in some engaging, enjoyable exchange on this forum.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Who are you kidding?
What do you think of what @limmt has answered to your OP in your other thread?
You haven't explained yourself about why you decided to create this thread and instead are addressing things that take care of themselves!
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MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
While Rafa is unequivocally better in this regard, these numbers are a little skewed by:
A) Rafa didn't start playing RG until his 3rd year on tour. So unless you assume he would've won in 03 & 04, he should have 2 more losses.
B) Retiring last year spared him a guaranteed loss
C) Roger's 5 years older, so let's first see if Rafa can keep winning in his 30s like Roger couldn't (2013-16).
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Disagree with this thread's title.
It's Stepanek courtside watching an 18-year old newcomer win her first important match.
It's Stepanek courtside watching an 18-year old newcomer win her first important match.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Why are you being so defensive? I wasn't attacking Nadal, just pointing out examples of where players who aren't AS dominant as Rafa at RG could be as 'scary', as opposed to just assuming that the highest dominance = scariest proposition because that makes the discussion completely redundant. And yes, Nadal can and does hit winners with proactive, aggressive intent that take the racket out of your hands at times which is why I mentioned that some of the fear generated from such play from Sampras or Federer also applies to some extent to Nadal.
TennisATP
Professional
A) Nadal started playing it at 19 and won it. At 19, 20, 21 Federer was losing easily at Wimbledon.
B) I disagree. If Nadal wasn't forced to withdraw due to injury he would have probably won RG.
C) Nadal just won this year his most dominant RG so he's showing no signs of slowing down. Nadal at RG cannot be compared to anything else including Federer.
I also forgot to add that the only 2 players who managed to beat Nadal at RG are actually 1-3 (Soderling) and 1-6 (Djokovic) against him there. So he even owns at RG both players who managed to beat him.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
BlueClayGOAT
Semi-Pro
Who are you kidding?
What do you think of what @limmt has answered to your OP in your other thread?
You haven't explained yourself about why you decided to create this thread and instead are addressing things that take care of themselves!
Which other thread are you referring to?
As for why I created this thread, refer my earlier post (#14).
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Beating Nadal at RG is the hardest thing to do in tennis, and IMHO all sports. Hence the 10 titles and generally insane clay court record. So if that is your definition of scariest then the answer is obviously yes with no need for further debate, but in the interest of said debate, there are plenty of scary propositions in tennis for lesser players facing ATGs on a respective surface.
For instance, I'm sure many people who went up against Sampras or Federer at Wimbledon have had the same general feeling of doom as you would if you went up against Nadal on clay even though Nadal is the most accomplished of the 3 on a single surface.
I'd also say the same was true of Borg on clay or Federer on HC and grass during his prime years.
But don't get me wrong. If you're looking for a guy who's the hardest to beat on a single surface then Nadal's the man. No questions asked.
For instance, I'm sure many people who went up against Sampras or Federer at Wimbledon have had the same general feeling of doom as you would if you went up against Nadal on clay even though Nadal is the most accomplished of the 3 on a single surface.
I'd also say the same was true of Borg on clay or Federer on HC and grass during his prime years.
But don't get me wrong. If you're looking for a guy who's the hardest to beat on a single surface then Nadal's the man. No questions asked.
BlueClayGOAT
Semi-Pro
Fed got beaten at his peak (or near-peak) in 2008. I don't know how much his mono affected his performance, maybe it did.
Rafa's knees were all wonky when Soderling beat him. Again, maybe he still would have beaten a fit Rafa, maybe not. But the point is that there was enough reasonable doubt about his fitness.
Maestroesque
Professional
19>15Screaming lungs out with joy:
BlueClayGOAT
Semi-Pro
I see that there is some conflicting discussion regarding the connotation of 'scary'. My mistake.
I meant scary in the sense of relentlessly unbeatable, no matter the opponent or time.
I meant scary in the sense of relentlessly unbeatable, no matter the opponent or time.
octobrina10
Talk Tennis Guru
Wrong! Fed was beaten at the 2008 Wimbledon:
Grass > clay in the imaginary world of Fed worshipers, not in the pro tennis circuit.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
So, how many threads have you created that are on the first page of GPPD?
As to your "explanation", did not know that a worshipping excercise is called that.
Again, who are you kidding?
Maestroesque
Professional
Wrong! Fed was beaten at the 2008 Wimbledon:
Grass > clay in the imaginary world of Fed worshipers, not in the pro tennis circuit.
19>15
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Wrong! Fed was beaten at the 2008 Wimbledon:
Grass > clay in the imaginary world of Fed worshipers, not in the pro tennis circuit.
That was not peak Federer, but given the fact that you are a kid that cannot follow the logic of simple written text, you are excused.
amorys90
Professional
Because any post from a new user that doesn't say 'Federer is GOAT' is a troll??
BlueClayGOAT
Semi-Pro
No, this wasn't peak Fed. But he was still very, very good.That was not peak Federer, but given the fact that you are a kid that cannot follow the logic of simple written text, you are excused.
Either way, he wasn't really outplayed by Rafa in that match. Really could have gone the other way.
BlueClayGOAT
Semi-Pro
Several of my threads were on the first page till yesterday. I don't know which one you are referring to. If you could stop being so obtuse and just say which one, we could move the discussion forward.So, how many threads have you created that are on the first page of GPPD?
As to your "explanation", did not know that a worshipping excercise is called that.
Again, who are you kidding?
Stopped caring about what you think my intentions are now. I was polite and reasonable in the face of baseless accusations for quite a while with you, but you obviously don't deserve that respect. Do you take pride in being unpleasant to people on here?
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Because any post from a new user that doesn't say 'Federer is GOAT' is a troll??
1/10
