Can we say the one handed back hand is not dead?

[gplracer]

3 of the last 4 grand slams have been one by players with one handed backhands. 3 of the last 4 masters 1000 events that were held on hard courts have been won by players with a one handed backhand. I really thought I would never see players with the one hander having this much success again. It seems the only place where one handers are not doing well is clay. Do you think the one handed backhand will become more popular with all the success it has had lately?

 

[Silent]

I don't know if it'll become more popular but it definitely isn't dead. We'll see what happens but Shapovalov seems pretty effective with his.

 

[kabob]

It's still dying. There are only 5 players in the current top-30 who hit with one-handed backhands and only two of them (Thiem and Dimitrov) are under the age of 30 years old. The only up-and-comer with one is Denis Shapovalov. Those are some slim pickings.

 

[Mark Asher]

It's mostly dead. How many young players hit it? Once Fed and Warwinka are gone, there's Dimitrov and Shapovala and who else?

It might return if they speed up the courts to encourage serve and volley. As long as tennis is a baseline game, I think the two-hander will dominate.

 

[Bender]

It's mostly dead. How many young players hit it? Once Fed and Warwinka are gone, there's Dimitrov and Shapovala and who else?

There's also Thiem

 

[eelhc]

I don't know if it'll become more popular but it definitely isn't dead. We'll see what happens but Shapovalov seems pretty effective with his.

So he learned with the lighter junior balls. Could it be that there are more kids on the way with the OHBH?

 

[NuBas]

One hander is for real men

 

[True Fanerer]

So he learned with the lighter junior balls. Could it be that there are more kids on the way with the OHBH?

Tsitsipas-still young

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017...a-roger-federer-grigor-dimitrov-tennis/64233/

 

[Waspsting]

We can say its "not dead", but would be getting carried away if we said "its alive and well"...

Hope it won't go the way of the dodo and serve-volley... but I imagine it'll always be the minority, and the day when not a single top player has it is not far

 

[MasturB]

Shapovalov gives me some hope.

While I think overall it might be dying in terms of quantity, we surely aren't losing quality with the 1her's. Maybe Dimitrov steps up and takes his game to next level. We've seen Shap has a nice BH developing.

 

[10sDog]

Actually there are only 2 teenagers in the top 100 ATP as of February 2018. And they are both one-handers: Denis Shapavalov and Stefanos Tsitsipas.

 

[The Green Mile]

Does Ivo have the best backhand in the game?

 

[Russeljones]

I am thinking that the real litmus test is how many juniors are playing it.

 

[GrassCourtFan]

Nice compilation of all 10 of Ivo's backhand winners

 

[Deleted member 742196]

It's mostly dead. How many young players hit it? Once Fed and Warwinka are gone, there's Dimitrov and Shapovala and who else?

It might return if they speed up the courts to encourage serve and volley. As long as tennis is a baseline game, I think the two-hander will dominate.

Theim? Not saying it’s awesome or anything. But he’s another one.

 

[ONgame]

20 years after fed retires you would see almost no one with OHBH on public courts.

 

[van_Loederen]

the fate of the OHBH depends on the policy of the ATP and Slams.
will they speed up the courts further?

...in a way it depends on what spectators like to watch,
but it's more about the masses of casual followers than about... us.

 

[Kalin]

The OHBH just refuses to go away

We may very well end up with another era similar to what we had for the past 10 years where the large majority of top players had a 1HBH yet a good percentage of top titles was won by one-handers. It used to be Roger and Stan (and, of course, Pete before them), it may very well become Thiem and Shapo and, hopefully, Gorgeous Grigorious. Haven't watched this Tsatsiki guy, sounds tasty!

 

[Surion]

Well, not dead, and I'm happy, but I'm facing young players regularly and NOBODY under 30 ever hit one against me.

 

[Tennisgods]

It’s a shame. A well hit OHBH is one of the most aesthetically pleasing parts of the game. I’m afraid I regard double handers as an abomination, but I understand why players use them.

 

[torpantennis]

Two hander is a pusher stroke and pushing wins in modern tennis. One hander hits with way way way more average RHS.

 

[HazBeen18]

The one-hander is all about versatility. You can drive hard through the ball and take it off the court or undercut with tremendous back-spin and can do all kinds of things on the run with a one-hander like no-look flick shots, etc. (fed special). It's no mistake that some of the best one-handed players of past 30 years also had great BH volleys--McEnroe, Edberg, Sampras, and Federer--because the one-hander requires a very strong wrist and fore-arm, which lends strength and control to the backhanded volley.
However, it's a shot that is difficult to teach and harder to master, so tennis coaches now just vote for consistency and ease-of-use.... Hence, a whole galaxy of two-handers out there.
However, all it would take is one break-out star (Shapo?) who has great success with it and you'd see it make another mini-comeback. But overall... it's dead.
I myself hit a one-hander... grew up playing 80s serve-and-volley tennis... I'm old... and alone in my proclivities....

 

[Shaolin]

Two hander is a pusher stroke and pushing wins in modern tennis. One hander hits with way way way more average RHS.

Tell Safin he's a pusher to his face

 

[torpantennis]

Tell Safin he's a pusher to his face

Safin still had way less RHS and spin than any good one-hander. It was a flat slap at the ball.

 

[Kalin]

20 years after fed retires you would see almost no one with OHBH on public courts.

I am not quite sure about that, to be honest... here in Asia still a huge majority of amateur players play the 1HBH. Sure, many are older guys but still plenty of young guys do too. Most Frenchmen I see rock the 1HBH, beautiful and suitably moody, including many young guys. I actually think the 1HNH is safer at the lower levels than among the pros

 

[nikdom]

Is it dead because a small percentage of top players use it?

OR

Is it dead because it is a weakness in an era dominated by two-handers?


If 'dead' is used in the first sense, then volleying is dead too as are overheads. How many players come to net? How many hit overheads to finish points?

In the latter sense, this has been proved utterly ridiculous. Even within the super small percentage of players using a one-hander, we have two in the Top 5 right now and one has dominated the last few majors.


This topic has been beaten to death. Two handers are not inherently superior. They come at a trade-off expense in terms of reach, additional torque on the hip and inability to hit touch shots.

If surfaces continue to be slow and high-bouncing, the two-hander will stay in place as the more powerful option for a baseliner. But if there is variety in surfaces, then there will always be room for the one-hander, S&V or all-court player.

 

[torpantennis]

Is it dead because a small percentage of top players use it?

OR

Is it dead because it is a weakness in an era dominated by two-handers?


If 'dead' is used in the first sense, then volleying is dead too as are overheads. How many players come to net? How many hit overheads to finish points?

In the latter sense, this has been proved utterly ridiculous. Even within the super small percentage of players using a one-hander, we have two in the Top 5 right now and one has dominated the last few majors.


This topic has been beaten to death. Two handers are not inherently superior. They come at a trade-off expense in terms of reach, additional torque on the hip and inability to hit touch shots.

If surfaces continue to be slow and high-bouncing, the two-hander will stay in place as the more powerful option for a baseliner. But if there is variety in surfaces, then there will always be room for the one-hander, S&V or all-court player.

LOL, 2-hander more powerful?? LMAO, give more of this junk for laughs. Can't be more wrong with that. One handers have superior RHS. Two hander tends to be more consistent thou, that's the reason why so many use it.

 

[TheRed]

The one-hander is all about versatility. You can drive hard through the ball and take it off the court or undercut with tremendous back-spin and can do all kinds of things on the run with a one-hander like no-look flick shots, etc. (fed special). It's no mistake that some of the best one-handed players of past 30 years also had great BH volleys--McEnroe, Edberg, Sampras, and Federer--because the one-hander requires a very strong wrist and fore-arm, which lends strength and control to the backhanded volley.
However, it's a shot that is difficult to teach and harder to master, so tennis coaches now just vote for consistency and ease-of-use.... Hence, a whole galaxy of two-handers out there.
However, all it would take is one break-out star (Shapo?) who has great success with it and you'd see it make another mini-comeback. But overall... it's dead.
I myself hit a one-hander... grew up playing 80s serve-and-volley tennis... I'm old... and alone in my proclivities....

I think this is a bit of a myth. While it's true you need a baseline level of strength (3 yr olds can't do it), you don't need to be that strong to hit a one hander. It's just a different stroke than a two-hander. You can force a two hander, pull it across your body even if your timing is off and you may get the ball over. That's harder with a one-hander, which derives more of it's power from timing. I was a 4.5-5.0 in my teens and 20's as a two-hander. Now I'm still a 4.5-5.0 but a father of 3 and easily not as strong as my youth but I'm a one-hander now. I'm not fit. I have a dad-bod and I can hit backhands easily with the Pro Staff RF97. It's certainly not strength.

 

[nikdom]

LOL, 2-hander more powerful?? LMAO, give more of this junk for laughs. Can't be more wrong with that. One handers have superior RHS. Two hander tends to be more consistent thou, that's the reason why so many use it.

Look at your own junk if you like to laugh so much.

 

[TheRed]

LOL, 2-hander more powerful?? LMAO, give more of this junk for laughs. Can't be more wrong with that. One handers have superior RHS. Two hander tends to be more consistent thou, that's the reason why so many use it.

On average, yes, two-handers hit harder. A one-hander when timed right can be hit harder because it's a looser swing but on average, a good two-hander will be hit harder than a good one-hander (who will end up slicing a lot).

 

[torpantennis]

Look at your own junk if you like to laugh so much.

I have shared topspin figures of ATP backhands. All top 5 were single handers, in 2200-3000 RPM. Bottom five of topspin were all two-handers, in 1200RPM figures. Superior RHS with one hander. I won't bother searching my old post, you can do it. The facts don't lie.

 

[ChaelAZ]

I am thinking that the real litmus test is how many juniors are playing it.

Not many because the two hander is easier to teach and shows quicker results to paying parents....unfortunately.

 

[torpantennis]

On average, yes, two-handers hit harder. A one-hander when timed right can be hit harder because it's a looser swing but on average, a good two-hander will be hit harder than a good one-hander (who will end up slicing a lot).

Yes, one hander will slice more cause one hander is worse defensively. So if you then calculate e.g average pace the two hander will have more. But if you only calculate topspin backhands, one handers will have more pace and superior spin, i.e like 30-50% more RHS.

 

[nikdom]

Not many because the two hander is easier to teach and shows quicker results to paying parents....unfortunately.

Two-hander is not bad at all for teaching kids. As they grow older and stronger, they should be encouraged to try the one-hander.

Most won't be able to, but the talented ones will be able to learn and adapt, and it precisely those kinds of players who will be able to use it to their advantage.

(e.g Sampras)

 

[van_Loederen]

If surfaces continue to be slow and high-bouncing, the two-hander will stay in place as the more powerful option for a baseliner. But if there is variety in surfaces, then there will always be room for the one-hander, S&V or all-court player.

LOL, 2-hander more powerful?? LMAO, give more of this junk for laughs. Can't be more wrong with that. One handers have superior RHS. Two hander tends to be more consistent thou, that's the reason why so many use it.

he did not mean it that way. maybe we can replace "more powerful" with "superior", if you like.
it is superior at defence (or: counter attack) in slowish conditions.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Two-hander is not bad at all for teaching kids. As they grow older and stronger, they should be encouraged to try the one-hander.

Most won't be able to, but the talented ones will be able to learn and adapt, and it precisely those kinds of players who will be able to use it to their advantage.

(e.g Sampras)

Agreed. Like kids starting with a cup start with 2 hands because it is easier, but eventually go to one hand when they can handle it. But coaches are being paid by parents who want quick results, so switching and learning a 1HBH isn't happening often. See it all the time in juniors, even if kids have very good natural 1HBH form and ability. It is a sad state of affairs.

 

[HazBeen18]

I have a dad-bod and I can hit backhands easily with the Pro Staff RF97. It's certainly not strength.

Yeah, I guess "very strong" was a bit over-stated. I guess I was trying to emphasize the fact that getting your arm and wrist used to the motion of the one-hander helps with backhand volleys. Btw, I played with the Pro Staff for years until I got a wicked case of tennis elbow. Now I play with the Volkl C-10 Pro and love it... and tada! No more tennis elbow. Bit of an older racquet (for an older player, who also is rocking a Dad-bod), but definitely does the job. Back on topic, I tried to switch to a two-hander many years back and just didn't get the whip I wanted. But, I know that would come with time... and perhaps starting out that way to begin with.

 

[nikdom]

I have shared topspin figures of ATP backhands. All top 5 were single handers, in 2200-3000 RPM. Bottom five of topspin were all two-handers, in 1200RPM figures. Superior RHS with one hander. I won't bother searching my old post, you can do it. The facts don't lie.

I don't need to look at your old posts to know you have problems with your inadequate "junk". Explains the unnecessary attitude.

 

[torpantennis]

he did not mean it that way. maybe we can replace "more powerful" with "superior", if you like.
it is superior at defence (or: counter attack) in slowish conditions.

That I can agree 100%. It's a counter puncher stroke basically.

 

[torpantennis]

I don't need to look at your old posts to know your "junk" is inadequate. Explains the unnecessary attitude.

Lol 6yo kid.

 

[nikdom]

Agreed. Like kids starting with a cup start with 2 hands because it is easier, but eventually go to one hand when they can handle it. But coaches are being paid by parents who want quick results, so switching and learning a 1HBH isn't happening often. See it all the time in juniors, even if kids have very good natural 1HBH form and ability. It is a sad state of affairs.

At the very least, a one-handed slice should be taught to all 2 handed kids. It's criminal not to. Tsonga, Novak, Nadal all use it extremely well.

Adds so many more possibilities with that small addition alone.

 

[nikdom]

Lol 6yo kid.

Says the guy who answers reasonable posts with unnecessarily disrespectful language to prove their intelligence is superior.

Take a hike buddy. And shove your RPMs

 

[torpantennis]

Says the guy who answers reasonable posts with unnecessarily disrespectful language to prove their intelligence is superior.

Take a hike buddy. And shove your RPMs

Facts are facts. Kids don't believe them if an adult says them. Double RPM on on one handers is a fact.

 

[Deleted member 756486]

It certainly isn’t getting any more popular but it will survive for as long as Fedr plays.
(Hopefully until the end of time)

 

[nikdom]

he did not mean it that way. maybe we can replace "more powerful" with "superior", if you like.
it is superior at defence (or: counter attack) in slowish conditions.

Power is power, whether at the low end of speed or high-end.

Using RPMs to prove one-handers are more powerful is like saying a four-cylinder Honda is more powerful than a dump truck because the Honda reaches higher RPM.

A honda can't produce the low-end power (torque) that a dump truck does.

At the high-end, that is, on a full-swing yes, racquet head speed translates into power. As you said in defensive positions, where a player is beaten for time or space to take a full-swing necessary to produce a consistent, deep and heavy ball, the 2 hander easily produces more power, depth and top-spin at a lower racquet head speed compared to a one-hander because it is *redirecting* the power more than generating it. And two-hands are inherently more stable than one hand - unless someone wants to argue basic biology.

 

[nikdom]

^ also, even if we talk about speed as power, RPMs on the ball don't have to be indicative of speed and depth. The ball can be hit flat and hard as well.

The two-handers by it's very nature can be hit harder and flatter - i.e with less RPMs on the ball.

So many examples on the Pro-tour who hit hard and flat on the BH side taking away time and opening up the court.

Of course you would call those strokes "powerful". Berdych, Goffin, Nishikori, Djokovic etc all have powerful 2 handed backhands

 

[torpantennis]

One thread I found:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...opspin-spin-rate-is-more-than-3000rpm.468521/

And Gasquet is proved to be able to hit 100mph+ BHs:

Superior RHS to any two-hander.

Okay: Here it is: Top5 average topspins of BHs:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...ge-backhand-topspin-at-wimbledon-2015.537638/

And here's my post of the lowest RPMs: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...opspin-at-wimbledon-2015.537638/#post-9455132

 

[letstakeourshirtsoff]

two handed backhand belongs on the WTA. There, I said it.

 

[Deleted member 512391]

Does Ivo have the best backhand in the game?

These are rarer than Yeti and the Loch Ness monster.

 

[van_Loederen]

Power is power, whether at the low end of speed or high-end.

Using RPMs to prove one-handers are more powerful is like saying a four-cylinder Honda is more powerful than a dump truck because the Honda reaches higher RPM.

A honda can't produce the low-end power (torque) that a dump truck does.

At the high-end, that is, on a full-swing yes, racquet head speed translates into power. As you said in defensive positions, where a player is beaten for time or space to take a full-swing necessary to produce a consistent, deep and heavy ball, the 2 hander easily produces more power, depth and top-spin at a lower racquet head speed compared to a one-hander because it is *redirecting* the power more than generating it. And two-hands are inherently more stable than one hand - unless someone wants to argue basic biology.

you were however saying "more powerful option [in certain conditions]", which sounds less committing, i.e. doesn't sound too much like a strictly physical reference. (doesn't sound provocative either, btw, but okay, you 2 seem to have a history, hehe.)

as for the actual physics aspect, in a strictly physical sense it sounds convincing to me that a 2HBH can generate more power.
extra RPM make for some power too though, and i was thinking that in quite some situations one can hit back with more speed using a 1HBH.
either way, i can understand people calling the 1HBH the 'more powerful weapon' in certain conditions or situations.

...and for slowish conditions i also thought that the consistency factors in. the 2HBH can be hit harder more consistently.

One thread I found: [...]