Curious
Legend
Post no 11
Can you beat this girl?
- Thread starter Curious
- Start date
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I would amend that to "I think people underestimate anyone they see on video because they haven't seen how bad they actually look on video."
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
As if the match outcome hinges on that one shot.
golden chicken
Hall of Fame
Oh, I like her! I played a lot like her.
As far as OP is concerned, I think I'd have a fun hit with that girl at 4.5 and a competitive match at 5.0. 5.5 to win consistently.
Curious
Legend
Have a video of you playing tennis? Just curious.
golden chicken
Hall of Fame
Nope. And I'll freely admit I haven't played anywhere near that level in probably 10 years. I'm lucky now to go hit with my wife for 30-45 minutes a week now.
At my best in college I might've self-rated myself a 4.5+ but today I'd say 3.5 with experience.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I hear the USTA is thinking of adding a rating suffix: E = "with experience"
FiReFTW
Legend
Thats quite true, most people are shocked how they look on video.
In 1st person it feels like ur federer or nadal or djokovic, then you see footage and u look ridig, weird,all weirs technique, weird movement dragging along the court etc haha
When u see a vid of someone u think hey i look like that too and hit the ball hard like that too.
Then you play in real life and u get overwhelmed and are wondering how the hell does that person hit so hard and consistent and accurate, looked alot weaker on video, how is this possible????
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
For me, it wasn't so much the stroke quality or movement but rather the molasses-like pace of what I thought was a pretty hard serve.
FiReFTW
Legend
Her serve seems pretty hard to me too, but some ppl here say it sucks, so interesting.
But if u ever took vid of ur serve, it looks much slower on vid vs real life.
Wise one
Hall of Fame
Make her hit lots of them!
tlm
G.O.A.T.
That girl would kick your butt right off the court.
Simon_the_furry
Hall of Fame
I serve harder than some WTA pros, so I could hang with her on serve. But once the point started I'd get slaughtered.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I would certainly try but I'd struggle with being able to deal with her GSs with enough touch to hit a short ball to bring her to the net without hitting too deep and it becomes a sitter.
Simon_the_furry
Hall of Fame
68. Wow.
Impressive you're still out there getting points off of college players.
Simon_the_furry
Hall of Fame
That's where the forehand chip comes into play.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Agreed but it's difficult to chip anything with a lot of control when one is getting severely moved around the court.
USAFA10s
New User
This is unfortunately true for many younger players and your average pretty solid high school/rec player (I coach high school girls and boys tennis, so I spend half my time convincing the girls to work on their net games and the other half trying to get the guys to stop over hitting), but again, a player at her level is going to have an overhead. Unless you have a seriously good drop shot/lob combo that is well disguised, that play is only going to work once or twice, then she is going to start reading your drop shot and lob and moving accordingly.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
People overestimate their abilities. Compare the game speed in this video to the countless ones posted here. She'd destroy 90% of the people here. You can even compare this video to the TW racket review videos and how much slower they are.
Her strokes are a tad bit muscle'ly but that's about it and that's ok cause her fundamentals are sound. Really good movement with her feet and ball movement. That's enough, people wouldn't keep up with her.
Curious
Legend
Thanks for that. I was actually expecting a comment from you as a high level player and a coach.
dominikk1985
Legend
A huge differene
4.0s and most 4.5s would absolutely not be able to beat her by jumping because they would be on defense right away. Now I think most good 5.0s would beat her if they still train regularly but that is a pretty good standard of play.
Don't get me wrong, many 4.5s can play some shots at her level but they won't move and hit like that consistently. Of course the guys playing 4.5 nationals could hang with her but really those top 4.5s that play nationals are really more 5.0s (not saying they are all sandbaggers)
Yes. After seeing the video again I would say she would bagel most 4.0 players. She makes some unforced errors but she is absolutely not troubled by deep shots of the opponent returning those shots deep and once a ball lands short she goes for the winner.
4.0s and most 4.5s would absolutely not be able to beat her by jumping because they would be on defense right away. Now I think most good 5.0s would beat her if they still train regularly but that is a pretty good standard of play.
Don't get me wrong, many 4.5s can play some shots at her level but they won't move and hit like that consistently. Of course the guys playing 4.5 nationals could hang with her but really those top 4.5s that play nationals are really more 5.0s (not saying they are all sandbaggers)
FiReFTW
Legend
Most people think from 1st person perspective that they hit as hard as her (forget about consistency and placement).
But if they would video themselves the shots would fly 2 times slower and they would be shocked.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
Yes and what people don’t realize is that she makes errors off fast heavy balls and not off 4.0 powder puffs. She’d eat those alive.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Hmm, I seem to remember the Youtube poster Andrew (who is a 5.0) had his hands full with a junior. Sure you're talking 5.5 but wouldn't a tour level female tennis player also be well above junior?
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Pretty much sums it up. Might be a few 4.0 outliers who have big serves and can run around and hit FHs 98% of the time. But they’re probably really 4.5s who ‘manage’ their results. I’d love to see those claiming 4.0s could beat her: find a video of a non-sandbagger 4.0 with a BH that could hang with her.
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
No, but last year he told me I should slice my backhand more because my two hander is trash.Did he/she teach you a slice FH?
J
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
FiReFTW
Legend
Well these NTRP ratings are a bit weird, but as far as I know 5.5 is on another stratosphere to 5.0 in male tennis, I believe 5.5 already play some extensive tournaments on a certain level and even futures I believe, but don't take my word for it.
FiReFTW
Legend
I wanted to say that before but I always forget, but @J011yroger really does remind me of DelPo, huge more flat penetrating forehand, big serve, backhand, similar movement, height etcDelPo reincarnated!
Big serve, big FH, mosly slice BH
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Lol, I took a lesson with David Pate and he said you know who your forehand is like, but even worse?I wanted to say that before but I always forget, but @J011yroger really does remind me of DelPo, huge more flat penetrating forehand, big serve, backhand, similar movement, height etc
And I was like woah, hey, easy with the shade.
Then he said Delpo and I was ok with it.
J
pabletion
Hall of Fame
Shes really good. I think I have a chance, tbh I think, I THINK, I can beat her, but we would have to see.
Tell her: ANYTIME!
Wander
Hall of Fame
Interestingly Tatjana has the variety to play a completely different style of game on clay.
Pretty interesting to see when most players these days don't change their gameplan much from surface to surface.
FiReFTW
Legend
Would be bad for their ego tho.
Most of the posters on this forum and this thread are beyond delusional.
These juniors and ex tournament competitors play tennis for 15-20 years 5-6 times per week several hours per day.
They hit more overheads in their life than most posters here hit forehands and backhands combined.
Their game is complete unlike 3.5 or 4.0 players on here that cant even hit 3 bhs in a row yet alone volleys, overheads etc...
These players know how to hit every shot consistently, crush every overhead, every short ball, have ton of match mileage and know how to win.
On top of that they are extremely fit and strong, great athletes, great movement, more powerful shots than most recs here plus they can hit those powerful shots comsistently for 30 in a row not 3 in a row.
Problem is most people here dont realize that and they also judge based on video where ball is much slower than real life.
They have not seen them play next to them yet alone hit with them.
My coach has alot of juniors she trains, 15 year old girls, 18 year old girls.
13 year old boys.
16 yea old boys...etc
I know how they hit and play and have real life experience with it, ive seen them hit and even hit with some and most people here are just delusional and dont really realize and know it the reality.
They think they hit a decent forehand and can compete with players who not only most likely have a better forehand but have a muchhhh better bh, volleys, serve, movement, anticipation,overhead, dropshot....
Would love to see some posters here play her and get a reality check.
The only players that might beat these kind of players are rly high and good players like @J011yroger and similar.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Agree with everything except ‘hit every shot’ - overwhelming majority WTA can’t even hit a real overhead out of the air - go with the swinging FH. And a lot of lame 2nd serves.
USAFA10s
New User
I don't understand why people think WTA players can't hit an overhead...the swinging FH is a smarter shot on a lot of balls, and the reason you see it more on the WTA is that women give each other that ball more often. If it is too low to get in a good position, a swinging FH is the safest and most effective shot, why hit a "real" overhead and risk losing the point when you can hit an easy swinging FH and win? Do you think Federer can't hit an overhead?
Yet another example of the difference in tactical thinking between this level of play and your average 4.0 and probably even 4.5 recreational players. The idea that a shot is the right shot because of what it is or how pretty it is and not because of how likely it is to win you the point is a lower level of tennis tactical thinking.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Agree. Volley, swing volley, overhead, and bounce overhead are different shots for different situations.
J
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I played a girl that was 14 years old and in the top 100 a few years ago and what you described is what happened to me. She was so consistent off both wings that it was tough to force a weak ball from her. I would have to play good to get 3 games a set.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
tlm
G.O.A.T.
That was like 5 years ago and I’ve improved a lot since that time and I’m sure I could giver her a better battle now. But someone with a good net rushing game could give her some trouble, but once she adjusts I think it would still be tough.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Sorry, nice try but not buying what you’re selling. Overhead is a more compact shot - less to go wrong. But requires better timing. Furthermore we watch the WTA - they make messes of 2nd serves where they get to place the ball where they want it and no footwork required.
USAFA10s
New User
True, but if you hit an overhead as you are coming in from the baseline on a ball with a shallow trajectory, that compact shot becomes extremely difficult and is no longer the smart shot, the angles involved make a swinging volley, while a more complicated and challenging shot to learn, a much better choice. If you don't believe me, go try starting on the baseline and have someone feed you some shallow overheads, the kind that would barely be considered a lob, my guess is you will hit a lot of them long and if you manage to get them in, it will be because you changed from a normal overhead to some combo of a high volley with a little swing. Again, it's about the scenario.
As for the 2nd serves, a quick search of this forum tells me slamming women's serves is a favorite pass time on this board, so at risk of starting another one of those...
I would love to see a study of men vs. women serve stats when height has been controlled for. Those extra inches sure make hitting a serve a lot easier. Not saying short people can't serve well and that all tall people serve well, just that on average the height difference matters. So does upper body strength (a heavy kick serve isn't going in the net, but it sure takes a lot of strength to keep it from being a sitter). That being said, who wants to watch a whole match of guys acing each other? doesn't sound like much fun to me. I like watching both the men and the women because the games are fundamentally different. The women (generally) don't have the sheer power so they have to construct points better. What they do have are solid return games that have been steadily improving, which means they get pounded if they don't go for it on their second serves, resulting in more double faults. And we are back to smart decision making. It is a tactical choice, either go for it with a few more double faults or take something off and get pounded on the return. The decision comes down to the opponent, if their returns suck, you take some off and just make them play. If they are the god of returns, you go for it because you are going to lose every point if you don't. Higher level thinking. You can't just look at a single shot and say it is a bad shot to hit, you have to look at the whole picture - the incoming ball, the opponent, even the score (up 40-0? go for a low percentage shot, might be worth it, down 30-40? better play the high percentage shot).
Rafaboy
Rookie
she is consistant but she needs work on forehand. needs to put more distance between herself and ball. this why forehands limited power and abridged stroke.
on occasion she does straight elbow more, she shows good power forehand, but rarely. so just needs practice there.
wher i live, rating would be 4.0
on occasion she does straight elbow more, she shows good power forehand, but rarely. so just needs practice there.
wher i live, rating would be 4.0
vex
Legend
I'd have to see an updated @J011yroger vid to decide. But just from that practice match vid she'd stomp 99.9% of people I've seen posting match vids on TTW.
vex
Legend
el oh el
vex
Legend
lol these posts are hilarious