Can you beat this girl?

golden chicken

Hall of Fame
Have a video of you playing tennis? Just curious.
Nope. And I'll freely admit I haven't played anywhere near that level in probably 10 years. I'm lucky now to go hit with my wife for 30-45 minutes a week now.

At my best in college I might've self-rated myself a 4.5+ but today I'd say 3.5 with experience.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
I would amend that to "I think people underestimate anyone they see on video because they haven't seen how bad they actually look on video."
Thats quite true, most people are shocked how they look on video.

In 1st person it feels like ur federer or nadal or djokovic, then you see footage and u look ridig, weird,all weirs technique, weird movement dragging along the court etc haha

When u see a vid of someone u think hey i look like that too and hit the ball hard like that too.

Then you play in real life and u get overwhelmed and are wondering how the hell does that person hit so hard and consistent and accurate, looked alot weaker on video, how is this possible????
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Thats quite true, most people are shocked how they look on video.

In 1st person it feels like ur federer or nadal or djokovic, then you see footage and u look ridig, weird,all weirs technique, weird movement dragging along the court etc haha

When u see a vid of someone u think hey i look like that too and hit the ball hard like that too.

Then you play in real life and u get overwhelmed and are wondering how the hell does that person hit so hard and consistent and accurate, looked alot weaker on video, how is this possible????
For me, it wasn't so much the stroke quality or movement but rather the molasses-like pace of what I thought was a pretty hard serve.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
For me, it wasn't so much the stroke quality or movement but rather the molasses-like pace of what I thought was a pretty hard serve.
Her serve seems pretty hard to me too, but some ppl here say it sucks, so interesting.

But if u ever took vid of ur serve, it looks much slower on vid vs real life.
 

Simon_the_furry

Hall of Fame
Her serve seems pretty hard to me too, but some ppl here say it sucks, so interesting.

But if u ever took vid of ur serve, it looks much slower on vid vs real life.
I serve harder than some WTA pros, so I could hang with her on serve. But once the point started I'd get slaughtered.
 

Wise one

Hall of Fame
That girl would kick your butt right off the court.
Nope. I played a college girl a few years ago, and it was not as bad as I was fearing. She won, but it was indoors on hard court. On clay, I think I would have done better. Of course, I'm 68 years old now!
 

Simon_the_furry

Hall of Fame
Nope. I played a college girl a few years ago, and it was not as bad as I was fearing. She won, but it was indoors on hard court. On clay, I think I would have done better. Of course, I'm 68 years old now!
68. Wow.
Impressive you're still out there getting points off of college players.
 

USAFA10s

New User
A lot of female players, for whatever reason, tend to overlook these shots in favor of baseline rallying. These would likely be the shots that would upset her the most.
This is unfortunately true for many younger players and your average pretty solid high school/rec player (I coach high school girls and boys tennis, so I spend half my time convincing the girls to work on their net games and the other half trying to get the guys to stop over hitting), but again, a player at her level is going to have an overhead. Unless you have a seriously good drop shot/lob combo that is well disguised, that play is only going to work once or twice, then she is going to start reading your drop shot and lob and moving accordingly.
 

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
Ok then. Here is the serve and some point play. Looks bloody good to me.

People overestimate their abilities. Compare the game speed in this video to the countless ones posted here. She'd destroy 90% of the people here. You can even compare this video to the TW racket review videos and how much slower they are.
Her strokes are a tad bit muscle'ly but that's about it and that's ok cause her fundamentals are sound. Really good movement with her feet and ball movement. That's enough, people wouldn't keep up with her.
 

Curious

Legend
People overestimate their abilities. Compare the game speed in this video to the countless ones posted here. She'd destroy 90% of the people here. You can even compare this video to the TW racket review videos and how much slower they are.
Her strokes are a tad bit muscle'ly but that's about it and that's ok cause her fundamentals are sound. Really good movement with her feet and ball movement. That's enough, people wouldn't keep up with her.
Thanks for that. I was actually expecting a comment from you as a high level player and a coach.
 
A huge differene
People overestimate their abilities. Compare the game speed in this video to the countless ones posted here. She'd destroy 90% of the people here. You can even compare this video to the TW racket review videos and how much slower they are.
Her strokes are a tad bit muscle'ly but that's about it and that's ok cause her fundamentals are sound. Really good movement with her feet and ball movement. That's enough, people wouldn't keep up with her.
Yes. After seeing the video again I would say she would bagel most 4.0 players. She makes some unforced errors but she is absolutely not troubled by deep shots of the opponent returning those shots deep and once a ball lands short she goes for the winner.

4.0s and most 4.5s would absolutely not be able to beat her by jumping because they would be on defense right away. Now I think most good 5.0s would beat her if they still train regularly but that is a pretty good standard of play.

Don't get me wrong, many 4.5s can play some shots at her level but they won't move and hit like that consistently. Of course the guys playing 4.5 nationals could hang with her but really those top 4.5s that play nationals are really more 5.0s (not saying they are all sandbaggers)
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Thanks for that. I was actually expecting a comment from you as a high level player and a coach.
Most people think from 1st person perspective that they hit as hard as her (forget about consistency and placement).
But if they would video themselves the shots would fly 2 times slower and they would be shocked.
 

tennis_balla

Hall of Fame
A huge differene


Yes. After seeing the video again I would say she would bagel most 4.0 players. She makes some unforced errors but she is absolutely not troubled by deep shots of the opponent returning those shots deep and once a ball lands short she goes for the winner.
Yes and what people don’t realize is that she makes errors off fast heavy balls and not off 4.0 powder puffs. She’d eat those alive.
 

Dolgopolov85

G.O.A.T.
Lol you mean she would beat 5.5 male players?

5.5 male players would beat most of the wta tour.
Hmm, I seem to remember the Youtube poster Andrew (who is a 5.0) had his hands full with a junior. Sure you're talking 5.5 but wouldn't a tour level female tennis player also be well above junior?
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
...most 4.0... backhand...
Pretty much sums it up. Might be a few 4.0 outliers who have big serves and can run around and hit FHs 98% of the time. But they’re probably really 4.5s who ‘manage’ their results. I’d love to see those claiming 4.0s could beat her: find a video of a non-sandbagger 4.0 with a BH that could hang with her.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Hmm, I seem to remember the Youtube poster Andrew (who is a 5.0) had his hands full with a junior. Sure you're talking 5.5 but wouldn't a tour level female tennis player also be well above junior?
Well these NTRP ratings are a bit weird, but as far as I know 5.5 is on another stratosphere to 5.0 in male tennis, I believe 5.5 already play some extensive tournaments on a certain level and even futures I believe, but don't take my word for it.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I wanted to say that before but I always forget, but @J011yroger really does remind me of DelPo, huge more flat penetrating forehand, big serve, backhand, similar movement, height etc :D
Lol, I took a lesson with David Pate and he said you know who your forehand is like, but even worse?

And I was like woah, hey, easy with the shade.

Then he said Delpo and I was ok with it.

J
 

FiReFTW

Legend
I seriously want to see some of these 4.0 or 4.5 player against Audrey.
Would be bad for their ego tho.

Most of the posters on this forum and this thread are beyond delusional.

These juniors and ex tournament competitors play tennis for 15-20 years 5-6 times per week several hours per day.

They hit more overheads in their life than most posters here hit forehands and backhands combined.

Their game is complete unlike 3.5 or 4.0 players on here that cant even hit 3 bhs in a row yet alone volleys, overheads etc...

These players know how to hit every shot consistently, crush every overhead, every short ball, have ton of match mileage and know how to win.

On top of that they are extremely fit and strong, great athletes, great movement, more powerful shots than most recs here plus they can hit those powerful shots comsistently for 30 in a row not 3 in a row.

Problem is most people here dont realize that and they also judge based on video where ball is much slower than real life.

They have not seen them play next to them yet alone hit with them.

My coach has alot of juniors she trains, 15 year old girls, 18 year old girls.
13 year old boys.
16 yea old boys...etc

I know how they hit and play and have real life experience with it, ive seen them hit and even hit with some and most people here are just delusional and dont really realize and know it the reality.
They think they hit a decent forehand and can compete with players who not only most likely have a better forehand but have a muchhhh better bh, volleys, serve, movement, anticipation,overhead, dropshot....

Would love to see some posters here play her and get a reality check.

The only players that might beat these kind of players are rly high and good players like @J011yroger and similar.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
Would be bad for their ego tho.

Most of the posters on this forum and this thread are beyond delusional.

These juniors and ex tournament competitors play tennis for 15-20 years 5-6 times per week several hours per day.

They hit more overheads in their life than most posters here hit forehands and backhands combined.

Their game is complete unlike 3.5 or 4.0 players on here that cant even hit 3 bhs in a row yet alone volleys, overheads etc...

These players know how to hit every shot consistently, crush every overhead, every short ball, have ton of match mileage and know how to win.

On top of that they are extremely fit and strong, great athletes, great movement, more powerful shots than most recs here plus they can hit those powerful shots comsistently for 30 in a row not 3 in a row.

Problem is most people here dont realize that and they also judge based on video where ball is much slower than real life.

They have not seen them play next to them yet alone hit with them.

My coach has alot of juniors she trains, 15 year old girls, 18 year old girls.
13 year old boys.
16 yea old boys...etc

I know how they hit and play and have real life experience with it, ive seen them hit and even hit with some and most people here are just delusional and dont really realize and know it the reality.
They think they hit a decent forehand and can compete with players who not only most likely have a better forehand but have a muchhhh better bh, volleys, serve, movement, anticipation,overhead, dropshot....

Would love to see some posters here play her and get a reality check.

The only players that might beat these kind of players are rly high and good players like @J011yroger and similar.
Agree with everything except ‘hit every shot’ - overwhelming majority WTA can’t even hit a real overhead out of the air - go with the swinging FH. And a lot of lame 2nd serves.
 

USAFA10s

New User
Agree with everything except ‘hit every shot’ - overwhelming majority WTA can’t even hit a real overhead out of the air - go with the swinging FH. And a lot of lame 2nd serves.
I don't understand why people think WTA players can't hit an overhead...the swinging FH is a smarter shot on a lot of balls, and the reason you see it more on the WTA is that women give each other that ball more often. If it is too low to get in a good position, a swinging FH is the safest and most effective shot, why hit a "real" overhead and risk losing the point when you can hit an easy swinging FH and win? Do you think Federer can't hit an overhead?
granted this has some sweet BH shots that aren't what I am talking about, but the first point and the one at about 1:53 are, and I saw several more extreme examples where the ball was even higher from men at the US open this year.

Yet another example of the difference in tactical thinking between this level of play and your average 4.0 and probably even 4.5 recreational players. The idea that a shot is the right shot because of what it is or how pretty it is and not because of how likely it is to win you the point is a lower level of tennis tactical thinking.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't understand why people think WTA players can't hit an overhead...the swinging FH is a smarter shot on a lot of balls, and the reason you see it more on the WTA is that women give each other that ball more often. If it is too low to get in a good position, a swinging FH is the safest and most effective shot, why hit a "real" overhead and risk losing the point when you can hit an easy swinging FH and win? Do you think Federer can't hit an overhead?
granted this has some sweet BH shots that aren't what I am talking about, but the first point and the one at about 1:53 are, and I saw several more extreme examples where the ball was even higher from men at the US open this year.

Yet another example of the difference in tactical thinking between this level of play and your average 4.0 and probably even 4.5 recreational players. The idea that a shot is the right shot because of what it is or how pretty it is and not because of how likely it is to win you the point is a lower level of tennis tactical thinking.
Agree. Volley, swing volley, overhead, and bounce overhead are different shots for different situations.

J
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
What most 4.0 rec players underestimate is the consistency on the backhand side that these juniors have...and that's assuming you can even match their levels of fitness and movement. Most 4.0 rec players are not strong on the backhand side. With apologies to our Polish friend, playing these youngsters is like playing someone with 2 forehands. Maybe the forehand itself might not be enough to blow you away but the consistent pace and depth from both sides will produce a poor rally ball pretty soon, and point over. If you're a young, fit, athletic, 4.0, this girl might not blow you away with sheer pace or power, but her consistent pace and depth will choke the life out of you point by point, game by game. 6-2, 6-2 would a pretty decent score if you can manage that.
I played a girl that was 14 years old and in the top 100 a few years ago and what you described is what happened to me. She was so consistent off both wings that it was tough to force a weak ball from her. I would have to play good to get 3 games a set.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I played a girl that was 14 years old and in the top 100 a few years ago and what you described is what happened to me. She was so consistent off both wings that it was tough to force a weak ball from her. I would have to play good to get 3 games a set.
That's when you need to resurrect that "dead" S&V game...
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
That's when you need to resurrect that "dead" S&V game...
That was like 5 years ago and I’ve improved a lot since that time and I’m sure I could giver her a better battle now. But someone with a good net rushing game could give her some trouble, but once she adjusts I think it would still be tough.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
I don't understand why people think WTA players can't hit an overhead...
Sorry, nice try but not buying what you’re selling. Overhead is a more compact shot - less to go wrong. But requires better timing. Furthermore we watch the WTA - they make messes of 2nd serves where they get to place the ball where they want it and no footwork required.
 

USAFA10s

New User
Overhead is a more compact shot - less to go wrong.
True, but if you hit an overhead as you are coming in from the baseline on a ball with a shallow trajectory, that compact shot becomes extremely difficult and is no longer the smart shot, the angles involved make a swinging volley, while a more complicated and challenging shot to learn, a much better choice. If you don't believe me, go try starting on the baseline and have someone feed you some shallow overheads, the kind that would barely be considered a lob, my guess is you will hit a lot of them long and if you manage to get them in, it will be because you changed from a normal overhead to some combo of a high volley with a little swing. Again, it's about the scenario.

As for the 2nd serves, a quick search of this forum tells me slamming women's serves is a favorite pass time on this board, so at risk of starting another one of those...

I would love to see a study of men vs. women serve stats when height has been controlled for. Those extra inches sure make hitting a serve a lot easier. Not saying short people can't serve well and that all tall people serve well, just that on average the height difference matters. So does upper body strength (a heavy kick serve isn't going in the net, but it sure takes a lot of strength to keep it from being a sitter). That being said, who wants to watch a whole match of guys acing each other? doesn't sound like much fun to me. I like watching both the men and the women because the games are fundamentally different. The women (generally) don't have the sheer power so they have to construct points better. What they do have are solid return games that have been steadily improving, which means they get pounded if they don't go for it on their second serves, resulting in more double faults. And we are back to smart decision making. It is a tactical choice, either go for it with a few more double faults or take something off and get pounded on the return. The decision comes down to the opponent, if their returns suck, you take some off and just make them play. If they are the god of returns, you go for it because you are going to lose every point if you don't. Higher level thinking. You can't just look at a single shot and say it is a bad shot to hit, you have to look at the whole picture - the incoming ball, the opponent, even the score (up 40-0? go for a low percentage shot, might be worth it, down 30-40? better play the high percentage shot).
 

Rafaboy

Rookie
she is consistant but she needs work on forehand. needs to put more distance between herself and ball. this why forehands limited power and abridged stroke.

on occasion she does straight elbow more, she shows good power forehand, but rarely. so just needs practice there.

wher i live, rating would be 4.0
 

vex

Hall of Fame
I'd have to see an updated @J011yroger vid to decide. But just from that practice match vid she'd stomp 99.9% of people I've seen posting match vids on TTW.
 
Top