Can you get bumped during the season?

[luckyskulls]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I couldn't find it...

I've played USTA for 6 years, always rated a 3.5. I play 3.5 and 4.0 and have improved each season.

Last year, I was 13-3 (3.5) and 3-11 (4.0). Always playing #1 singles. I went to playoffs and Districts with the 3.5 team, losing in tiebreakers at Districts.

I didn't get bumped for 08' and my tennis game has improved significantly. My first 4 3.5 matches have been:

6-1, 7-6
6-2, 6-1
6-1, 6-1,
6-0, 6-1

My captain is freaking out that I will get bumped...is this possible? What if I beat a strong player at 4.0? I've never played this well, which is fun. But, my 3.5 team struggles with doubles and needs the singles courts each week.

Thanks for reading.

 

[raiden031]

I guess you're talking about being DQ'd, not the year end bump? There's already a thread about the risk of this. Since you're computer rated, the USTA says its highly unlikely you will get DQ'd. I think you'd have to beat solid 4.0s to get DQ'd from 3.5.

 

[fe6250]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I couldn't find it...

I've played USTA for 6 years, always rated a 3.5. I play 3.5 and 4.0 and have improved each season.

Last year, I was 13-3 (3.5) and 3-11 (4.0). Always playing #1 singles. I went to playoffs and Districts with the 3.5 team, losing in tiebreakers at Districts.

I didn't get bumped for 08' and my tennis game has improved significantly. My first 4 3.5 matches have been:

6-1, 7-6
6-2, 6-1
6-1, 6-1,
6-0, 6-1

My captain is freaking out that I will get bumped...is this possible? What if I beat a strong player at 4.0? I've never played this well, which is fun. But, my 3.5 team struggles with doubles and needs the singles courts each week.

Thanks for reading.

You really need Javier to reply to this post as he seems to have this formula down, but my understanding is that it is possible for a computer rated player to get bumped during the season if they reach the three strike limit. The difficulty is in knowing exactly what puts you over during the season, but the impact to your rating is based on WHO you play and how well you play them that will raise your rating.

It is not typical for a computer rated player (especially if you did not appeal) to get bumped during the season, but the following would increase your chances:

- Playing (and doing too well) at singles at your current level
- Playing 'up' and doing well against strong players - especially at singles

That said, I appealed last year, won the appeal and played 'up' too and had success at both and did not get DQ'd. I talked about it at length with Javier and others in this thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=174290

You might want to read through that for some insights from others.

This is also an interesting site for information on DQ's of Computer-Rated players at sectionals: http://www.ustapetition.com/index.html

Good Luck!

 

[ohplease]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I couldn't find it...

I've played USTA for 6 years, always rated a 3.5. I play 3.5 and 4.0 and have improved each season.

Last year, I was 13-3 (3.5) and 3-11 (4.0). Always playing #1 singles. I went to playoffs and Districts with the 3.5 team, losing in tiebreakers at Districts.

I didn't get bumped for 08' and my tennis game has improved significantly. My first 4 3.5 matches have been:

6-1, 7-6
6-2, 6-1
6-1, 6-1,
6-0, 6-1

My captain is freaking out that I will get bumped...is this possible? What if I beat a strong player at 4.0? I've never played this well, which is fun. But, my 3.5 team struggles with doubles and needs the singles courts each week.

Thanks for reading.

There's really only two ways to get bumped as I see it.

1) dominate your current level
2) have competetive scores at the next level

In your case, it'll really depend on how you do at 4.0 this year. I've personally seen cases where people with mediocre records at one level and losing records at the next higher level get bumped.

That said, if the last 3 matches were against strong 3.5's, you'd likely already be DQ'ed.

 

[Applesauceman]

I've also read that if you are a 3.5 benchmark player, and if another 3.5 player beats you handily, they risk being rated up because a 3.5 benchmark means that you are an example of a true 3.5 player. You will become a benchmark player if you advance to a play-off or championship.

 

[fe6250]

I've also read that if you are a 3.5 benchmark player, and if another 3.5 player beats you handily, they risk being rated up because a 3.5 benchmark means that you are an example of a true 3.5 player. You will become a benchmark player if you advance to a play-off or championship.

The only thing I would add to that is that each benchmark isn't rated the same, so beating a 3.01 benchmark vs. beating a 3.49 benchmark would factor into it. A 3.0 who goes to state and then gets bumped to 3.5 is a benchmark but likely not highly rated where as a 3.5 that goes to state, gets bumped to 4.0 and appeals back to 3.5 is highly rated. Bottom line is if you soundly beat a highly rated benchmark, it is most likely a sure strike.

 

[amarone]

I've also read that if you are a 3.5 benchmark player, and if another 3.5 player beats you handily, they risk being rated up because a 3.5 benchmark means that you are an example of a true 3.5 player. You will become a benchmark player if you advance to a play-off or championship.

Being a benchmark player does not say anything about how good you are or whether you are a "true 3.5 player". It just says that you have advanced to a play-off or championship, as you state in your final sentence. A player can be benchmark with an 0-10 record, and beating that player would not affect your rating any more than beating any other 0-10 player.

Now, in practice players who have reached championships tend to be better players - as proven by the fact they reached the championships. Hence if you beat them your rating will tend to increase - but because they are good players, not because they are benchmarks.

 

[Applesauceman]

If a self-rated 3.5 player handily beats a 3.5 benchmark player, there's a good beat that the 3.5 self-rated player will get at least a strike. Frankly, any time a 3.5 player handily beats another 3.5 player, the winning player risks getting a strike. Matches between players of the same ability level should be "reasonably" competative. Handily beating a player of your same ability level is not "reasonably" competative, meaning you risk getting a strike, and after three strikes you get DQed.

 

[fe6250]

If a self-rated 3.5 player handily beats a 3.5 benchmark player, there's a good beat that the 3.5 self-rated player will get at least a strike. Frankly, any time a 3.5 player handily beats another 3.5 player, the winning player risks getting a strike. Matches between players of the same ability level should be "reasonably" competative. Handily beating a player of your same ability level is not "reasonably" competative, meaning you risk getting a strike, and after three strikes you get DQed.

Self-rated is a whole 'nother kettle of fish! I believe the OP was computer-rated, but agree that if you come in self-rated and start beating the tar out of bench marks - your days are numbered.

 

[Applesauceman]

And don't even get me started on sandbagging and congratulations

 

[fe6250]

And don't even get me started on sandbagging and congratulations

Oh no - let's not wake up BB on the whole sandbagging issue now. BTW - it is common to have a lopsided score within level if people are on the extremes of the level. Typically one person is entering the level and one is about to leave, but this doesn't necessarily equate to a DQ or sandbagging - particularily for computer rated players.

 

[spiderman123]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but I couldn't find it...

I've played USTA for 6 years, always rated a 3.5. I play 3.5 and 4.0 and have improved each season.

Last year, I was 13-3 (3.5) and 3-11 (4.0). Always playing #1 singles. I went to playoffs and Districts with the 3.5 team, losing in tiebreakers at Districts.

I didn't get bumped for 08' and my tennis game has improved significantly. My first 4 3.5 matches have been:

6-1, 7-6
6-2, 6-1
6-1, 6-1,
6-0, 6-1

My captain is freaking out that I will get bumped...is this possible? What if I beat a strong player at 4.0? I've never played this well, which is fun. But, my 3.5 team struggles with doubles and needs the singles courts each week.

Thanks for reading.

First of all Congratulations for such a marked improvement.

Secondly, you do not have any problem, your captain does though. He may lose a player.

If you get DQed mid season, since you are computer rated, it will not affect your previous results.

The only thing that you must do is to remain honest with your game and do your best in every match. If the computer DQs you mid-season, celebrate the recognition of your hard work that day.

 

[Applesauceman]

I believe more in dispairty of talent pools as opposed to "sandbagging". I'm not saying that "sandbagging" doesn't exist, I'm simply saying that it's a word that is too frequently tossed out there when the real problem is a national definition of an ability level vs. a local definition of an ability level.

 

[Topaz]

First of all Congratulations for such a marked improvement.

Secondly, you do not have any problem, your captain does though. He may lose a player.

If you get DQed mid season, since you are computer rated, it will not affect your previous results.

The only thing that you must do is to remain honest with your game and do your best in every match. If the computer DQs you mid-season, celebrate the recognition of your hard work that day.

This is how I look at it, too, but with one big problem...say you get DQ'd midseason at your level, get bumped...then have no team to play on! Though, it does sound like luckyskulls has a 4.0 team to go to if that should happen.

 

[SJS]

First of all Congratulations for such a marked improvement.

Secondly, you do not have any problem, your captain does though. He may lose a player.

If you get DQed mid season, since you are computer rated, it will not affect your previous results.

The only thing that you must do is to remain honest with your game and do your best in every match. If the computer DQs you mid-season, celebrate the recognition of your hard work that day.

The highlighted statements may not be true since you said you are playing both 3.5 and 4.0. You need to check the rules in your section. In my section if a computer rated player plays "up" and is DQ'd at the lower level, ALL the matches at the lower level become losses just like a self-rated players would. So any matches your team won 3-2 would now be team losses of 2-3 and could drastically change your team's standings. This may be why your captain is freaking out.

 

[fe6250]

The highlighted statements may not be true since you said you are playing both 3.5 and 4.0. You need to check the rules in your section. In my section if a computer rated player plays "up" and is DQ'd at the lower level, ALL the matches at the lower level become losses just like a self-rated players would. So any matches your team won 3-2 would now be team losses of 2-3 and could drastically change your team's standings. This may be why your captain is freaking out.

I believe this rule is different by local league, district, or section. Definitely need to check with your local coordinator. In our league just the last match is DQ'd for a computer-rated player.

 

[luckyskulls]

Thanks everyone for your replies. The old threads are helpful and it's starting to make some sense. (Sort of)

I'm definitely computer rated and a benchmark player as well. We were all so sure I would be bumped, but it didn't happen. So, my 3.5 team really (really) needs my matches to count as we're 4-0, but often only winning 3 courts. The local league coordinator is on my team, so I can ask her.

I beat a 4.0 player last night, but it was hard work. 6-4, 7-5. I was down 0-3 in the 2nd set and had to dig out.

Trust me when I say, I love a competitive match. I don't need to win to have a great time. I have worked hard to get in better shape overall and it's showing more than I expected, in my tennis game.

It's interesting to learn about the ratings system. It seems so arbitrary. There's so much "stuff" that goes into being the player you are.

 

[Applesauceman]

Some would disagree with me, it could be preceived as a form of sandbagging, but your captain could also play you down in the doubles positions vs. playing you in the singles positions. Doubles play counts less against you because it also has to factor in your partner.

 

[duffman]

You will be fine. You would have to dominate good 4.0's to get DQ'd with a computer rating and even then you would probably be ok.

I was in a similar position when I started playing tennis in 2005. After my 1st year of playing tennis as a self-rated 3.0 I went 8-4 including 2 losses at districts. I stayed a 3.0 at year end but improved dramtically from the end of the adult league to the start of the next season thanks to the help of a guy that taught me some fundamentals and was patient enough to work on my game with me. My improvement was so drastic that I was asked to play on a 4.5 team with my 3.0 computer rating. So the next season I played 4.5, 4.0, and 3.5. I did not play 3.0 even though I technically could have. I went 10-2 at 3.5 (playing mostly singles and losing to the same guy twice in singles who was a former 4.5 that went to nationals so I don't know how he ended up 3.5), 6-2 at 4.0 (all doubles), and 4-2 at 4.5 (all doubles). I got alor of flack playing 3.5, especially because at one point in the season I didn't have a loss at 4.0 or 4.5, but I knew that my weaknesses (inconsistancy and experience) would eventually show up and didn't feel that I was playing out of level. At no point was I DQ'd from 3.5 and in fact didn't even have my 3.0 rating change until the ESR, where I went from 3.0 to 4.0. I spent the next year as a 4.0 and got bumped to 4.5 at the 2007 year end rating.

So the system does spew out some wierd stuff from time to time, especially with rapidly improving players. But I think with a little time, the computer system eventually gets the rating right. I think there just isn't enough data for certain players to accurately rate them.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Two words: Just play.

 

[DrewRafter8]

I'm going to test the system this year. I've worked really hard on regaining the game I had before I left tennis. I'm going to play singles when my team makes it to states and try to unload on someone. It will be interesting to see if they'll DQ someone for winning 0 and 0 at states. I know of the three strike rule, but I'm curious to see if they'll even let it go that far. Aren't there verifiers at states or is that a thing of the past?

 

[safins back]

Hi Drew what level do you play? I play 4.0 singles here in Winston Salem

 

[Topaz]

I'm going to test the system this year. I've worked really hard on regaining the game I had before I left tennis. I'm going to play singles when my team makes it to states and try to unload on someone. It will be interesting to see if they'll DQ someone for winning 0 and 0 at states. I know of the three strike rule, but I'm curious to see if they'll even let it go that far. Aren't there verifiers at states or is that a thing of the past?

Drew, players have and can be DQ at states as well as beyond.

I like Cindy's idea...just play.

 

[DrewRafter8]

Safin, sent you an email. IF you don't get it, you can email me at my screen name at hotmail.com.

 

[fe6250]

I'm going to test the system this year. I've worked really hard on regaining the game I had before I left tennis. I'm going to play singles when my team makes it to states and try to unload on someone. It will be interesting to see if they'll DQ someone for winning 0 and 0 at states. I know of the three strike rule, but I'm curious to see if they'll even let it go that far. Aren't there verifiers at states or is that a thing of the past?

You have to play a minimum of two matches to be eligble for state. When we played there were no verifiers, but it IS possible to get DQ'd but as I understand it, it will still come down to the three strike rule. BTW - if you DQ at states your matches still count, just can't go on to sectionals.