Can't beat older/foxy players

3virgul14

Rookie
I have a high win percentage in the club league winning %85 but almost all my defeats come from +50 +55 players which in theory should not be able to compete with my speed and pace. Not. They outrun me and seem to cover all the court no matter how i paint the lines with topspin.

Finally they pull a short drop or unpaced volley to the corners or a long slice when i dont have the power to re-start the rally and surrender.

Do i have to hit more flat or bring more racquet head speed? If I rush the net I am lobbed or low sliced to the corners where i cant reach. Its consuming me
 

spun_out

Semi-Pro
short version: hit crosscourt

long version: when you say you are painting the lines, are you painting the lines doing dtl or cc? i assume dtl, which don't mean much in terms of how much your opponent has to run. also, how do you beat the other players? are they making errors off your shots or are you hitting winners? until the pace of your shots get to a certain level, the pace of shot doesn't matter because it is still too slow that everyone (including old guys) can get to it with good anticipation. it's about making them run around more, i.e. crosscourt shots that pull them out wide. not only do they have to get there, they have to recover to the center from there. it all adds up.
 

Mongolmike

Hall of Fame
You need to control the point without over hitting yourself into errors. When you do this, the best tactic is to get them running and hit behind them frequently. Sudden change of direction is very difficult.

The worst thing to do is hit directly at them. Make them move, even just a step or two, every shot. Also, bring THEM up then lob them. Get ready to hit an overhead if they can run the lob down.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
You have to remember that if you are playing an older player at the same level, likely he is coming down from a higher level, so at his peak he was probably a significantly better player. He also has experience and has likely seen everything before.

So you are basically pitting your speed and power against his wisdom and racket skills. So you need to play to his weaknesses and play to your strengths. Get into long rallies, go corner to corner then hit behind him. Bring him up then lob. Prey on the movement differential. Don't over hit, that's what he's hoping you'll do.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
I have a high win percentage in the club league winning %85 but almost all my defeats come from +50 +55 players which in theory should not be able to compete with my speed and pace. Not. They outrun me and seem to cover all the court no matter how i paint the lines with topspin.
I am guessing you are a younger player, fairly athletic, and you like to hit big but tend to make unforced errors in longer rallies, and these guys are getting your ball back, giving you shots that make you uncomfortable like low slices, short junk balls, lobs, etc. and getting you to make mistakes. Whenever you feel like you have them on the run, they send back a high, slow ball and reset the point. Am I correct?

If the above is correct, here are some ideas:

1. On shots where you have some angle available, hit cross court. More specifically, don't just hit deep to the corner but try to get your ball to leave the court over the sideline instead of over the baseline after it bounces. This works better against slower players because now they have to cover more distance than just the width of the baseline.

2. Try to learn to anticipate when they will throw up a high, slow "reset" ball and come forward to take it early. Preferably as a volley / overhead, but at least take it on the rise. You need to take time away and deny them the "reset button."

3. On neutral balls, focus on depth and consistency more than pace or "painting lines". These types of players usually don't have a lot of weapons from deep behind the baseline. If they can get inside the baseline, then they can bring out the angles and low balls even if they can't drive it hard. If you can keep them back, you should eventually get an easier ball to attack.
 
I have a high win percentage in the club league winning %85 but almost all my defeats come from +50 +55 players which in theory should not be able to compete with my speed and pace. Not. They outrun me and seem to cover all the court no matter how i paint the lines with topspin.

Finally they pull a short drop or unpaced volley to the corners or a long slice when i dont have the power to re-start the rally and surrender.

Do i have to hit more flat or bring more racquet head speed? If I rush the net I am lobbed or low sliced to the corners where i cant reach. Its consuming me
First, ignore their age. Just focus on their abilities. If they can outrun you, then stop trying to compete with them on that front. Find something else at which you are better.

"Paint the lines with TS" seems like a formula for a lot of UEs; I'd prefer to go for big targets.

The only reason they're able to drop shot or volley into the corner is because you're not making things difficult enough for them [or perhaps they are just the better player].

Taking the net seems like a good attempt; just make sure you hit quality approaches so passing and lobbing are more difficult.

What happens if you rally with them without trying to blast winners?
 

2nd Serve Ace

Hall of Fame
Are you overhitting? I've actually started choking up on my approach FHs and that has got me hitting them much more accurately. Especially the inside out approach.

Now I just need to fix my balky overhead and stiff back [emoji28]

Also have to keep rabbit players honest by hitting behind them some too.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I have a high win percentage in the club league winning %85 but almost all my defeats come from +50 +55 players which in theory should not be able to compete with my speed and pace. Not. They outrun me and seem to cover all the court no matter how i paint the lines with topspin.

Finally they pull a short drop or unpaced volley to the corners or a long slice when i dont have the power to re-start the rally and surrender.

Do i have to hit more flat or bring more racquet head speed? If I rush the net I am lobbed or low sliced to the corners where i cant reach. Its consuming me
The older player may have been a pretty good junior or college player in his youth, though he may not advertise it. I have been fooled by a retired guy who turned out to have played both baseball and tennis for his college.

Also remember that by definition the older players you play with are the ones who have survived while others have stopped playing.
 

3virgul14

Rookie
Hitting behind is sth they expect always, it does not work so often unless I wait for the last second with the wrist angle option.

Some answers are spot on as my elder opponents top the leagues with 30 years of experience or more and they play every second day in the club either a doubles or singles game. I am just looking for a weak point advice. Their touch shots are optimised and they see my short drops fairly quick to react.
The older player may have been a pretty good junior or college player in his youth, though he may not advertise it. I have been fooled by a retired guy who turned out to have played both baseball and tennis for his college.

Also remember that by definition the older players you play with are the ones who have survived while others have stopped playing.


Yes, can never know that. Form is temporary , class is permanent.

Watching those masters now, Kafelnikov has big extra belly but he is really one to watch!

 

Sander001

Hall of Fame
I have a high win percentage in the club league winning %85 but almost all my defeats come from +50 +55 players which in theory should not be able to compete with my speed and pace. Not. They outrun me and seem to cover all the court no matter how i paint the lines with topspin.

Finally they pull a short drop or unpaced volley to the corners or a long slice when i dont have the power to re-start the rally and surrender.

Do i have to hit more flat or bring more racquet head speed? If I rush the net I am lobbed or low sliced to the corners where i cant reach. Its consuming me
Older athletes have surprising endurance. Have you heard of Cliff Young?

“In 1983, the 61-year-old potato farmer won the inaugural Westfield Sydney to Melbourne Ultramarathon, a distance of 875 kilometres (544 mi). Young showed up to compete in overalls and work boots, without his dentures (later claiming they rattled when he ran).[5] He ran at a slow, loping pace, and trailed the pack by a large margin at the end of the first day. While the other competitors stopped to sleep for six hours, however, Young kept running. He ran continuously for five days, taking the lead during the first night and eventually winning by ten hours. The Westfield run took him five days, 15 hours and four minutes,[1] almost two days faster than the previous record for any run between Sydney and Melbourne, at an average speed of 6.5 kilometres per hour (4.0 mph). All six competitors who finished the race broke the old record.”
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I think it’s much easier to maintain endurance than to maintain speed. So often my brain thinks I can get to shot but my body just can’t get there.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Being a 50+ player I am surprised you think we are slow. I am still as quick as ever I am just lazier than ever.
If you think you are fast as you were at 20, you’ve forgotten. Maybe you just anticipate better. Wisdom makes up for a lot of lost fast twitch.

Even Nadal isn’t as fast as he was 10 years ago and he’s in his 30s not 50s
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
If you think you are fast as you were at 20, you’ve forgotten. Maybe you just anticipate better. Wisdom makes up for a lot of lost fast twitch.

Even Nadal isn’t as fast as he was 10 years ago and he’s in his 30s not 50s
I am training way better now than when I was 20. I am also playing a lot more (I did not start playing till 30) so the inherent sprinting is exercised a lot more.
 

NLBwell

Legend

Actually, my son (the movie aficionado) met Pam Grier at a movie festival and talked to her at length about her acting and career. She was a very nice person.
 

NLBwell

Legend
I have a high win percentage in the club league winning %85 but almost all my defeats come from +50 +55 players which in theory should not be able to compete with my speed and pace. Not. They outrun me and seem to cover all the court no matter how i paint the lines with topspin.

Finally they pull a short drop or unpaced volley to the corners or a long slice when i dont have the power to re-start the rally and surrender.

Do i have to hit more flat or bring more racquet head speed? If I rush the net I am lobbed or low sliced to the corners where i cant reach. Its consuming me
In answer to the OP's question:
1) get an excellent overhead and 2) be prepared to run all day.
They've seen enough pace over the years that it doesn't bother them unless it is placed in a spot that is difficult to get to, so 3) get better at placing the ball.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I am training way better now than when I was 20. I am also playing a lot more (I did not start playing till 30) so the inherent sprinting is exercised a lot more.
I was playing football in my 20’s so I could run faster and jump higher. Far easier to train and get strong in those years.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
We played our first match in the mixed B doubles club championships against the crafty veterans. They had great hands and volleys. We managed to beat them 7-5 4-6 10-4. Pretty much beat them with my FH. It was on fire. But since my partner was off I made sure I was a rock of stability. 2 DFs and 2 missed RoS for the whole match.
 

DailyG&T

Rookie
Many older players have really good anticipation for what you're going to do next so that buys them (a lot) of time, so even though they're slower, they have a head start to head in the right direction.
 
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