Carlitos has won 18 sets in a row on hard court and has been broken only 4 times in 81 service games

Only broken four times and faced I think break points in only eight service games out of 81 service games. For someone with a best an average serve this is a wild stat.

Throughout his short career*, he’s had multiple runs where he’s been dominant even while not possessing a dominant serve or one that even gives him free points relative to what the top 50 gets off of theirs, respectively. This reminds me of what Nadal has been able to do with the serve that doesn’t really give him any free points. The other control that he’s been in on Hardcourts this year has been amazing to watch.

*Not a pun
 

UnforcedTerror

Hall of Fame
He’ll end up getting the USO record.
I've told TTW community so a while ago. :sneaky:

 
I feel like Alcaraz's serve is getting underrated here. Sure, he's not a guy acing left and right when the 1st serve lands in so yeah, not mzny free poimts. BUT every time I watched him play, I saw Carlitos' serve being good enough to allow him to take solid control of the point from the get go, which, with how aggressive he is, makes for pretty quickly clinically finished points. He also goes for more than typical on 2nd serves and is pretty successful with it. So overall, I wouldn't say that this impressive stat is despite Alcaraz's serve.

The guy reached a relatively high level in all aspects of the game, and with the competition like this, it does yield amazing results.
 

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
If you’re still sleeping on this guy’s potential you just arent paying attention at this point. He is the clearest ATG prospect you are ever going to see, it’s written in all caps and bold letters across his forehead.

10+ Slams I’d put my house on it.
FgHuDXeUYAAswcR
 
If you’re still sleeping on this guy’s potential you just arent paying attention at this point. He is the clearest ATG prospect you are ever going to see, it’s written in all caps and bold letters across his forehead.

10+ Slams I’d put my house on it.

Every single thing points to it except for the under 6 feet height, which is also very interesting. Tennis is basically a 50-50 sport, and a few players can consistently win more than 51 or 52% of all the points played and this guy is doing it, winning consecutive sets left and right in a sport that’s 50-50. Every single sign is there and if he were 6 foot one or 6 foot two, nobody would have any doubts at all that he could challenge for the greatest player ever.
 

The Guru

Legend
If you’re still sleeping on this guy’s potential you just arent paying attention at this point. He is the clearest ATG prospect you are ever going to see, it’s written in all caps and bold letters across his forehead.

10+ Slams I’d put my house on it.
Not only are his groundstrokes superior to anyone post gold gen but he is also far and away the best physical talent too (only Dimitrov is even remotely close). That's just what it takes now in the more physical modern era. The big 4 are all outlier level athletes and Carlos has that too. Health is the only thing that stops him from being a legend in this sport.
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
Not only are his groundstrokes superior to anyone post gold gen but he is also far and away the best physical talent too (only Dimitrov is even remotely close). That's just what it takes now in the more physical modern era. The big 4 are all outlier level athletes and Carlos has that too. Health is the only thing that stops him from being a legend in this sport.
Since woolpants tennis ended and we started seeing a faster paced game it's always been the best athlete on tour who becomes dominant. This should be obvious even to novices with tennis history.

-Connors in the mid 70s was an insane mover. Ashe as well was a jungle cat.
-Then came Borg, head and shoulders above his generation athletically.
-The 80s are tougher with the changing racquet tech, but the dominant players - Wilander, probably quickest on tour and one of the quickest ever - Lendl, perhaps not the fastest but certainly the strongest and most well conditioned, introducing modern training to tennis - McEnroe, with easily the quickest hands and reflexes of all time, and Becker, power and explosiveness personified.
-90s come along and we get PETE, springy, explosive, fast, almost the perfect athlete. Courier for a bit was incredibly strong and fit as well.
-late 90s gives Andre some time to shine, then we get Hewitt - best mover on tour, Ferrero, etc.
-then we get Federer, whose peak athleticism is incredibly underrated, and simply put he moved at a different speed to anyone in the game, until...
-Nadal, shouldn't even have to explain this one
-then we get prime Djokovic and Murray, and in Djokovic's 2011 and beyond he takes his athleticism to a new level with flexibility and speed.
-then we get... Dimitrov and Thiem? lol. Zverev Tsitsipas and Medvedev cover a ton of ground for their size but no one would mistake them as great athletes.
-now, it's Carlos, who is head and shoulders over the field athletically.

The previous situations in which we saw a player with ATG talent who was also head and shoulders ahead of their generation/the Tour in terms of athleticism were:

Borg, Sampras, Federer. Fill in the blanks from here.
 

The Guru

Legend
Since woolpants tennis ended and we started seeing a faster paced game it's always been the best athlete on tour who becomes dominant. This should be obvious even to novices with tennis history.

-Connors in the mid 70s was an insane mover. Ashe as well was a jungle cat.
-Then came Borg, head and shoulders above his generation athletically.
-The 80s are tougher with the changing racquet tech, but the dominant players - Wilander, probably quickest on tour and one of the quickest ever - Lendl, perhaps not the fastest but certainly the strongest and most well conditioned, introducing modern training to tennis - McEnroe, with easily the quickest hands and reflexes of all time, and Becker, power and explosiveness personified.
-90s come along and we get PETE, springy, explosive, fast, almost the perfect athlete. Courier for a bit was incredibly strong and fit as well.
-late 90s gives Andre some time to shine, then we get Hewitt - best mover on tour, Ferrero, etc.
-then we get Federer, whose peak athleticism is incredibly underrated, and simply put he moved at a different speed to anyone in the game, until...
-Nadal, shouldn't even have to explain this one
-then we get prime Djokovic and Murray, and in Djokovic's 2011 and beyond he takes his athleticism to a new level with flexibility and speed.
-then we get... Dimitrov and Thiem? lol. Zverev Tsitsipas and Medvedev cover a ton of ground for their size but no one would mistake them as great athletes.
-now, it's Carlos, who is head and shoulders over the field athletically.

The previous situations in which we saw a player with ATG talent who was also head and shoulders ahead of their generation/the Tour in terms of athleticism were:

Borg, Sampras, Federer. Fill in the blanks from here.
I mean it's not quite that simple. Monfils is on the Big 3's level as an athlete and he never won a big title though in the grand scheme of things obviously he's had a great career. But yes it does seem that top tier athleticism is essentially a requirement if you want to be a consistent top guy. A great power game can make up for good but not great athleticism (Stan, Roddick, Del Po, even Thiem) but none of those guys are ATGs anyway. Berdych is a player that really illustrates just how much of a requirement top level athleticism is. I think in terms of pure ballstriking Berdych probably outduels the Big 3 but because not only was he not a great athlete he wasn't even a good one he was relegated to being their pigeon for his entire career.

FWIW I think Tsitsipas is borderline a great athlete his limitations are more technical than physical. Give him Berdych's strokes for example and he's a no doubt ATG imo. Zed and Med are A tier if Novak, Murray, Nadal, Fed, Carlos, Hewitt are S tier.
 

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
There are actually a few great athletes among the next gen there just haven’t been any freak athletes like the big 3. Carlos is a freak athlete. I don’t really see anything to laugh about though with guys like Thiem, Zverev, etc. Carlos is a little small and a little injury prone thus far, so we’ll see how it goes.

Sinner on the other hand is a guy who I think is going to be limited by his athleticism. Like Berdych, he just isn’t that explosive of a mover which unfortunately for him is required to reach the summit
 

CHillTennis

Hall of Fame
Let's be honest about it. He is the best player of a very WEAK Next Gen group.

This guy is not the second coming of Djokovic or Federer.

Let's stop with the comparisons, until he even has 20 grand slam titles.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
If you’re still sleeping on this guy’s potential you just arent paying attention at this point. He is the clearest ATG prospect you are ever going to see, it’s written in all caps and bold letters across his forehead.

10+ Slams I’d put my house on it.
Anything less than 25 Slams and Alcaraz will be a complete failure! :p
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Over the past 52 weeks, he is

—42nd in ace percentage
—51st in unreturned first serves
—43rd in 3 shots or fewer rallies won

I know numbers aren’t your thing and posting pictures of chicken wings is but these numbers look pretty average to me.

Spending time looking up tennis stats for this generation is definitely not my thing lol. So yeah, you got me, go celebrate :p still does Alcaraz have an “average” serve?? I still say absolutely not.

 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Alcaraz is on a mission, he is trying to create that aura that will make players feel defeated before they even play him. He is doing a good job.
 

ChrisRF

Legend
I think Alcaraz will be better on hardcourt than on clay. Everything apart from Madrid 2022 supports that prediction (and Madrid is the most unusual clay court tournament anyway).

But still, we simply need to wait for the next Djokovic vs Alcaraz encounter to really judge him.
 

FeroBango

Legend
I think Alcaraz will be better on hardcourt than on clay. Everything apart from Madrid 2022 supports that prediction (and Madrid is the most unusual clay court tournament anyway).

But still, we simply need to wait for the next Djokovic vs Alcaraz encounter to really judge him.
Fair enough but half of his titles have been on clay. He'll add more in the coming weeks too.
 
I mean it's not quite that simple. Monfils is on the Big 3's level as an athlete and he never won a big title though in the grand scheme of things obviously he's had a great career. But yes it does seem that top tier athleticism is essentially a requirement if you want to be a consistent top guy. A great power game can make up for good but not great athleticism (Stan, Roddick, Del Po, even Thiem) but none of those guys are ATGs anyway. Berdych is a player that really illustrates just how much of a requirement top level athleticism is. I think in terms of pure ballstriking Berdych probably outduels the Big 3 but because not only was he not a great athlete he wasn't even a good one he was relegated to being their pigeon for his entire career.

FWIW I think Tsitsipas is borderline a great athlete his limitations are more technical than physical. Give him Berdych's strokes for example and he's a no doubt ATG imo. Zed and Med are A tier if Novak, Murray, Nadal, Fed, Carlos, Hewitt are S tier.

Berdych has great and impressive strokes but not on the same level as the big 3 though, way more error prone and less versatile and creative with his shotmaking.
Edit : if you meant just pure power game from the baseline I agree then, but outside of him as an athlete he was always way more one dimensional than them, which may be linked. Maybe with better movement he would have developed better feel and touch, who knows.
 
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jl809

Legend
He’s on his way for sure. I’m impressed that he can pull out 130mph serves already (unlike, for example, YoungDal), even though I think it has much room to improve. And like others have said his 2nd and 3rd shot have improved a lot, he’s a lot more disciplined
 

thrust

Legend
I've told TTW community so a while ago. :sneaky:

Tilden, IMO, had weak competition for most of his US wins. When Lacoste and Cochet reached their peak and competed, Tilden's reign at the US was over.
 

ADuck

Legend
I think Alcaraz will be better on hardcourt than on clay. Everything apart from Madrid 2022 supports that prediction (and Madrid is the most unusual clay court tournament anyway).

But still, we simply need to wait for the next Djokovic vs Alcaraz encounter to really judge him.
I've been saying this non-stop since last year's clay season. I hope I will be given credit one day :p
 

thrust

Legend
Since woolpants tennis ended and we started seeing a faster paced game it's always been the best athlete on tour who becomes dominant. This should be obvious even to novices with tennis history.

-Connors in the mid 70s was an insane mover. Ashe as well was a jungle cat.
-Then came Borg, head and shoulders above his generation athletically.
-The 80s are tougher with the changing racquet tech, but the dominant players - Wilander, probably quickest on tour and one of the quickest ever - Lendl, perhaps not the fastest but certainly the strongest and most well conditioned, introducing modern training to tennis - McEnroe, with easily the quickest hands and reflexes of all time, and Becker, power and explosiveness personified.
-90s come along and we get PETE, springy, explosive, fast, almost the perfect athlete. Courier for a bit was incredibly strong and fit as well.
-late 90s gives Andre some time to shine, then we get Hewitt - best mover on tour, Ferrero, etc.
-then we get Federer, whose peak athleticism is incredibly underrated, and simply put he moved at a different speed to anyone in the game, until...
-Nadal, shouldn't even have to explain this one
-then we get prime Djokovic and Murray, and in Djokovic's 2011 and beyond he takes his athleticism to a new level with flexibility and speed.
-then we get... Dimitrov and Thiem? lol. Zverev Tsitsipas and Medvedev cover a ton of ground for their size but no one would mistake them as great athletes.
-now, it's Carlos, who is head and shoulders over the field athletically.

The previous situations in which we saw a player with ATG talent who was also head and shoulders ahead of their generation/the Tour in terms of athleticism were:

Borg, Sampras, Federer. Fill in the blanks from here.
I think most of today's younger players are very good athletes but lack the mentality and strategies to become great champions. Alcaraz, seems to be the exception.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Not only are his groundstrokes superior to anyone post gold gen but he is also far and away the best physical talent too (only Dimitrov is even remotely close). That's just what it takes now in the more physical modern era. The big 4 are all outlier level athletes and Carlos has that too. Health is the only thing that stops him from being a legend in this sport.
And to think that some people believed that no teenager would succeed nowadays.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
I think Alcaraz will be better on hardcourt than on clay. Everything apart from Madrid 2022 supports that prediction (and Madrid is the most unusual clay court tournament anyway).

But still, we simply need to wait for the next Djokovic vs Alcaraz encounter to really judge him.
Bingo. If he loses to Djokovic in slams like everyone else, then nothing changes. Old Djokovic and old Nadal on clay (assuming he returns to a good level) are literally the only quality opponents Carlos can be judged against.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Tilden, IMO, had weak competition for most of his US wins. When Lacoste and Cochet reached their peak and competed, Tilden's reign at the US was over.
Tilden is the US Open GOAT, like whoever likes it.
:p
 

M3aty

New User
With the form he’s showing now, if Carlos only continued to get better, I wouldn’t require him to reach 20 slams to be in the GOAT conversation. We would have never seen higher quality at literally everything.

He hits 15, he’s in the running for me. That said, I think his improvement plateau’s a bit in the next few years. Prime Fed is the only player I’ve seen playing at a level like what we’re currently seeing. The tour isn’t THAT bad. Carlos is just taking the game into another dimension at the moment.

I just hope his legs can hold together long enough for longevity’s sake.
 

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
If you’re still sleeping on this guy’s potential you just arent paying attention at this point. He is the clearest ATG prospect you are ever going to see, it’s written in all caps and bold letters across his forehead.

10+ Slams I’d put my house on it.

I have not been following tennis since last two months. Can you tell me if his serve has actually improved?
 

FeroBango

Legend
Speaking of legs, Carlitos gives me some gigantic dwarf vibes with his extra large torso and arms relative to his stubby legs.
 

SonnyT

Legend
It's not just Alcaraz, there's a lack of competition throughout the field. There were four QF's in Miami, and they were over in 8 straight sets, with no tiebreaks.

I just read about best of 5 finals in M1000. I just wish for three setters in the current format!
 
None. I think Karl will lose at least a set to Sinner or Med.

Sinner is the only one who has even given him a match on hardcourts this year, and I think he pulls out at least a set. If Carlos wins, I think the Medvedev match will be much different this time around. If Carlos can win both of these matches in straight sets, these 24 sets will go down as an example of a player playing as well as one can play.
 
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