Carlos Alcaraz = Big 3?

B

Boomski

Rookie
I'm not saying that Carlos Alcaraz is as good as the Big 3 together, let alone one of them, but to me there's no denying that his game resembles different qualities of the Big 3's games, for instance with Djokovic it's the sliding backhand and the drop shot + lob combo, with Federer it's the creativity and shotmaking and with Nadal the fighting spirit. All these qualities together makes for one pretty entertaining player to watch.

I put together these qualities and compared them to Alcaraz in this video:


What do you guys think? Are the other areas of Alcaraz's game where he compares with the Big 3?
 
He is that next iteration of what it takes to be a top player, and it does mix many aspect of past players into what I consider the best all-court skills we've seen to date. Many say the most 'complete' player yet. Still lots to improve, but less gaps this early in his career than previous players.
 
Boomski said:
I'm not saying that Carlos Alcaraz is as good as the Big 3 together, let alone one of them, but to me there's no denying that his game resembles different qualities of the Big 3's games, for instance with Djokovic it's the sliding backhand and the drop shot + lob combo, with Federer it's the creativity and shotmaking and with Nadal the fighting spirit. All these qualities together makes for one pretty entertaining player to watch.

I put together these qualities and compared them to Alcaraz in this video:


What do you guys think? Are the other areas of Alcaraz's game where he compares with the Big 3?
Click to expand...
Wait you're raz ols??
 
Boomski said:
I'm not saying that Carlos Alcaraz is as good as the Big 3 together, let alone one of them, but to me there's no denying that his game resembles different qualities of the Big 3's games, for instance with Djokovic it's the sliding backhand and the drop shot + lob combo, with Federer it's the creativity and shotmaking and with Nadal the fighting spirit. All these qualities together makes for one pretty entertaining player to watch.

I put together these qualities and compared them to Alcaraz in this video:


What do you guys think? Are the other areas of Alcaraz's game where he compares with the Big 3?
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, he is flashy.

Just not a consistent game. Reminds me of Monfils but in a weaker era.
 
Boomski said:
I'm not saying that Carlos Alcaraz is as good as the Big 3 together, let alone one of them, but to me there's no denying that his game resembles different qualities of the Big 3's games, for instance with Djokovic it's the sliding backhand and the drop shot + lob combo, with Federer it's the creativity and shotmaking and with Nadal the fighting spirit. All these qualities together makes for one pretty entertaining player to watch.

I put together these qualities and compared them to Alcaraz in this video:


What do you guys think? Are the other areas of Alcaraz's game where he compares with the Big 3?
Click to expand...

Movement of Nadalovic

Creativity more like Federer although not quite there

A player that lacks the weaknesses of the B3 and has their strengths

Special indeed
 
There are glimpses but he doesn’t really match the best of the Big 3 in any category aside from drop shots (he has a GOAT’ed drop shot, I’ll give him that).

Great forehand — worst of the four, imo.

Good backhand — erratic though, and probably second-worst (at best).

Average serve — arguably the worst of the four if we’re going by highs…at best, second-worst.

Great movement — probably the worst of the four with offensive footwork factored in.

Great net game — Federer’s was better.

Great pure return — Djokovic’s and Federer’s were better.


He’s in some respects an aesthetic composite, and still has time to improve, but I’m skeptical that he’s even reached Murray’s level as of now.
 
TheFifthSet said:
There are glimpses but he doesn’t really match the best of the Big 3 in any category aside from drop shots (he has a GOAT’ed drop shot, I’ll give him that).

Great forehand — worst of the four, imo.

Good backhand — erratic though, and probably second-worst (at best).

Average serve — arguably the worst of the four if we’re going by highs…at best, second-worst.

Great movement — probably the worst of the four with offensive footwork factored in.

Great net game — Federer’s was better.

Great pure return — Djokovic’s and Federer’s were better.


He’s in some respects an aesthetic composite, and still has time to improve, but I’m skeptical that he’s even reached Murray’s level as of now.
Click to expand...
Why do you think his forehand is worst of the four? Too liable to UE?
 
InsuranceMan said:
Why do you think his forehand is worst of the four? Too liable to UE?
Click to expand...

Yeah, error-proneness, lack of early-hitting abilities and shot selection (which could charitably be seen as its own thing).

But it’s only Fedal who clear him decisively. He’s somewhat close to Djokovic, which at 21 is no small feat.
 
TheFifthSet said:
There are glimpses but he doesn’t really match the best of the Big 3 in any category aside from drop shots (he has a GOAT’ed drop shot, I’ll give him that).

Great forehand — worst of the four, imo.

Good backhand — erratic though, and probably second-worst (at best).

Average serve — arguably the worst of the four if we’re going by highs…at best, second-worst.

Great movement — probably the worst of the four with offensive footwork factored in.

Great net game — Federer’s was better.

Great pure return — Djokovic’s and Federer’s were better.


He’s in some respects an aesthetic composite, and still has time to improve, but I’m skeptical that he’s even reached Murray’s level as of now.
Click to expand...

Please do not ever, EVER edit this. Especially the movement (“special note: offensive footwork” lol) and FH parts. But also the “pure return”.

This could age even further like fine milk.

Thanks.
 
Sport said:
Who cares if he's on par with the Big 3?

Only imjportant thing is that Raz and Sinner saved tennis with this newly emerged rivalry between two future ATGs. If not for them, tennis would be dead.
Click to expand...
Carrot better start making it a rivalry, then.

#badMover
 
Bandwagoning can [apparently] be so much fun!

" #calrosbestevuh! " = infantile, but in sync with this decaying culture's longings for transcendence

The Calros bandwagoners are *way out* over their skis.. we'll see how it goes.
 
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Honestly don’t get how old glories worshippers get mad at us exposing those deluded claims from the supposed finest experts / analysts of TTW which just proved aged like complete milk.

We live in the Sincaraz era love it or hate it. Respect for the rest of the tour though, not talking about them. As some other guy here said, if you wanna discuss Andy or Hewitt there’s better places like Former Pro Player Talk.

Otherwise if you wanna stick to present day tennis and despise both of them for whatever reason we do all certainly know, I recommend you to follow Fritz or maybe Mensik in the mid term and hope for the best.
 
Jav said:
Honestly don’t get how old glories worshippers get mad at us exposing those deluded claims from the supposed finest experts / analysts of TTW which just proved aged like complete milk.

We live in the Sincaraz era love it or hate it. Respect for the rest of the tour though, not talking about them. As some other guy here said, if you wanna discuss Andy or Hewitt there’s better places like Former Pro Player Talk.

Otherwise if you wanna stick to present day tennis and despise both of them for whatever reason we do all certainly know, I recommend you to follow Fritz or maybe Mensik in the mid term and hope for the best.
Click to expand...
I am unfamiliar with this dialect.
 
Vincent-C said:
Kidding, right?

We'll see how it goes.
Click to expand...

If you compare all the best players in their prime, but they HAVE to use the equipment they did in their prime, i think carlito would beat everyone. so in essence we are witnessing the best tennis that’s ever been played. do you remember the drop shot carlito hit off a drop shot at the laver cup? i don’t even know if McEnroe could do that
 
big ted said:
>. so in essence we are witnessing the best tennis that’s ever been played.
Click to expand...
Depends on how you define "tennis". I notice that the number of players and audiences for the present, diminished
version are declining, and *skewing sharply upward* in monetary wealth..
 
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Vincent-C said:
Bandwagoning can [apparently] be so much fun!

" #calrosbestevuh! " = infantile, but in sync with this decaying culture's longings for transcendence

The Calros bandwagoners are *way out* over their skis.. we'll see how it goes.
Click to expand...
In 10 years, senile McEnroe will say that the best current tennis player of that era is the best tennis player he's ever seen.
:laughing::-D
 
Vincent-C said:
Depends on how you define "tennis". I notice that the number of players and audiences for the present, diminished
version are declining, and *skewing sharply upward* in monetary wealth..
Click to expand...

True. When I say best tennis that doesn’t mean it’s exciting to watch. i liked tennis more before it turned into what looks like they’re standing on a ping pong table
 
big ted said:
True. When I say best tennis that doesn’t mean it’s exciting to watch. i liked tennis more before it turned into what looks like they’re standing on a ping pong table
Click to expand...
I hear ya. Given that context, Alky is the best of the current crop.
 
DSH said:
In 10 years, senile McEnroe will say that the best current tennis player of that era is the best tennis player he's ever seen.
:laughing::-D
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me. Why on earth would the players get worse from generation to generation. Everyone says it’s a weak era now but how many grand slams would 5’11 McEnroe win if he played now?
 
big ted said:
Makes sense to me. Why on earth would the players get worse from generation to generation. Everyone says it’s a weak era now but how many grand slams would 5’11 McEnroe win if he played now?
Click to expand...
Are humans-in-general getting better from generation to generation? Just a thought.
 
Vincent-C said:
Are humans-in-general getting better from generation to generation? Just a thought.
Click to expand...

On average, yes. World population grows and so does infrastructure, economic resources, popularity and knowledge of the game (I mean, tennis). Whether diminishing returns or temporary bumps happen that's probably true as well but the overall tendency is clear.
 
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Am I wrong?

I think Djokovic fans, not all of them, but the majority of them, would agree that Carlos is the best that they have ever seen! And Djokovic is now down to second place.

Whereas Federer fans, once again, not all of them, feel that Federer was still top of the latter.
 
I wouldn't say Alcaraz got the fighting spirit of Nadal, because Nadal was deadly serious and emotionally aggressive, while Alcaraz likes to have fun and he's sometimes flat (Wimbledon Final).
Nadal didn't give you cheap points, whether the score was lopsided or close, he'd treat every point like it was life or death.
The thing Alcaraz and Nadal have in common, is the footspeed (of young Nadal) both in terms of straight-line and lateral movement...
 
ALCARAZWON said:
I wouldn't say Alcaraz got the fighting spirit of Nadal, because Nadal was deadly serious and emotionally aggressive, while Alcaraz likes to have fun and he's sometimes flat (Wimbledon Final).
Nadal didn't give you cheap points, whether the score was lopsided or close, he'd treat every point like it was life or death.
The thing Alcaraz and Nadal have in common, is the footspeed (of young Nadal) both in terms of straight-line and lateral movement...
Click to expand...
Carlos did treat every point like it was life or death at latest USO though. :)
 
Nappa said:
One can still argue about Nadal but Fedovic? He is miles ahead
Click to expand...
Nadal ahead of Djokovic? Respectfully, no! Someone he beat regularly, remember 9 straight matches and 19 straight sets on HC! It's hard to beat a bottom feeder 19 straight sets! I wonder if Djokovic has ever beaten anyone 19 straight sets, besides Nadal.

The only one Djoko is behind is potentially Carlos!
 
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SonnyT said:
Nadal ahead of Djokovic? Respectfully, no! Someone he beat regularly, remember 9 straight matches and 19 straight sets on HC! It's hard to beat a bottom feeder 19 straight sets! I wonder if Djokovic has ever beaten anyone 19 straight sets, besides Nadal.

The only one Djoko is behind is potentially Carlos!
Click to expand...
But was Djokovic's peak as good as Nadal's peak?
Nadal-Federer Wimbledon 2007-08 is still the best on grass.
And I think Nadal's best at the US Open is definitely better than Djokovic's best...
 
SonnyT said:
Nadal ahead of Djokovic? Respectfully, no! Someone he beat regularly, remember 9 straight matches and 19 straight sets on HC! It's hard to beat a bottom feeder 19 straight sets! I wonder if Djokovic has ever beaten anyone 19 straight sets, besides Nadal.

The only one Djoko is behind is potentially Carlos!
Click to expand...
Respectfully I was talking about Big3 at 22 years of age. By that premise I back my previous comment 101%
 
Boomski said:
I'm not saying that Carlos Alcaraz is as good as the Big 3 together, let alone one of them, but to me there's no denying that his game resembles different qualities of the Big 3's games, for instance with Djokovic it's the sliding backhand and the drop shot + lob combo, with Federer it's the creativity and shotmaking and with Nadal the fighting spirit. All these qualities together makes for one pretty entertaining player to watch.

I put together these qualities and compared them to Alcaraz in this video:


What do you guys think? Are the other areas of Alcaraz's game where he compares with the Big 3?
Click to expand...
He hits like Federer, moves like Djokovic, and fights like Nadal. He really is the complete package.
 
Nappa said:
Respectfully I was talking about Big3 at 22 years of age. By that premise I back my previous comment 101%
Click to expand...
I back my contention that assuming same age Djokovic should defeat Federer 7-8 out of 10. Federer, however how excellent his skills were, lacked inner strength.
 
ALCARAZWON said:
But was Djokovic's peak as good as Nadal's peak?
Nadal-Federer Wimbledon 2007-08 is still the best on grass.
And I think Nadal's best at the US Open is definitely better than Djokovic's best...
Click to expand...
In 2007-08, there were only Federer and Nadal at the top of tennis, so it's hard to say if they were truly great. People don't reach their peaks at age 20-21. Look at how much better Carlos is now compared with a few years ago.

In 2011, Nadal still retained his speed and knew how to complement his tennis, and Djokovic was 6-0 against him. The reason Nadal lost speed post-'11 was he had to add muscles to counter Djokovic.
 
SonnyT said:
In 2007-08, there were only Federer and Nadal at the top of tennis, so it's hard to say if they were truly great. People don't reach their peaks at age 20-21. Look at how much better Carlos is now compared with a few years ago.

In 2011, Nadal still retained his speed and knew how to complement his tennis, and Djokovic was 6-0 against him. The reason Nadal lost speed post-'11 was he had to add muscles to counter Djokovic.
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Nadal's knees were shot by 2009, the 2008 Olympics and 2009 AO destroyed him.
Go look at Nadal's 2010 Wimbledon, it was NOWHERE NEAR as good as 2007-08.
Nadal's speed around the court was video-game-like in 2005-2008, and it stopped there.
That is why Djokovic began winning slams in 2011 (except for 2008 AO which he won).
FEDAL allowed Djokovic to win slams during the weakest decade of tennis (2011-2020).
And you are lying about Nadal's muscle, he was more muscular in 2008 than he was in 2012.
rafael-nadal-of-spain-strains-his-muscle.jpg
 
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Nappa said:
One can still argue about Nadal but Fedovic? He is miles ahead
Click to expand...
I said 3 years ago, before many had heard of Alcaraz, that the GOAT debate in years to come will be Nadal v Alcaraz. The added spice is it also will be who was Spains greatest sportsperson. I think Rafa was well aware about Alcaraz many years ago and his comments about obsessions about records was made with Alcaraz in mind. he was spot on with those comments as its now getting sad to see Djokovic getting more and more frustrated, which at his and Rafa's age was always going to happen if they got too obsessed about legacies. Rafa had perspective.
 
messiahrobins said:
I said 3 years ago, before many had heard of Alcaraz, that the GOAT debate in years to come will be Nadal v Alcaraz. The added spice is it also will be who was Spains greatest sportsperson. I think Rafa was well aware about Alcaraz many years ago and his comments about obsessions about records was made with Alcaraz in mind. he was spot on with those comments as its now getting sad to see Djokovic getting more and more frustrated, which at his and Rafa's age was always going to happen if they got too obsessed about legacies. Rafa had perspective.
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CARLOS is becoming threat to nadal legacy . What a joke.
Give him the weakest field ever and still he will not win 14RG .
 
gamelovergold said:
CARLOS is becoming threat to nadal legacy . What a joke.
Give him the weakest field ever and still he will not win 14RG .
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Nah, Calros- with all of six! majors in hand- is clearly, clearly the finest, best, purest player this game has ever seen.
Also the warmest, kindest, humblest, most giving.. if Mother Teresa herself were still around, she'd be asking for his graces.





weak era
 
Vincent-C said:
Nah, Calros- with all of six! majors in hand- is clearly, clearly the finest, best, purest player this game has ever seen.
Also the warmest, kindest, humblest, most giving.. if Mother Teresa herself were still around, she'd be asking for his graces.





weak era
Click to expand...
He has a spectacularly high ceiling. Very possible he could be the finest, best, purest player ever. And also his sportsmanship is fantastic.
 
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