Carlos Alcaraz vs Rafael Nadal after playing their first slam at age 21

Can't guarantee it. This is speculation.
Alcaraz thrives on poor/mediocre servers. Fed would hold more easily against him and not give him many break chances. Then get enough returns back, the movement, the slice and the FH would do the business. Even on clay I think Fed would been tough for him but especially grass and hard courts. True it just speculation but my opinion.
 
True it’s hard to say whether Carlos would’ve been able to exploit Prime Fed’s bh off clay. On clay would’ve been easier
I doubt he would. Federer would mix things up a lot against Alcaraz, i.e. sometimes power, sometimes slice. Getting constant high balls to Federer's backhand is hard, but Nadal had the perfect style to do it, from being left-handed to the big topspin.

Connors used to say that he didn't like to give his opponents rhythm, because if they get rhythm then too many bad things could happen. Nadal, on the contrary, loves rhythm, and wants to beat and overwhelm opponents with a rhythm on his own terms, from his routines to his gamestyle. People who face Nadal will get rhythm, but Federer will mix things up a lot more by varying power and slices.
 
I doubt he would. Federer would mix things up a lot against Alcaraz, i.e. sometimes power, sometimes slice. Getting constant high balls to Federer's backhand is hard, but Nadal had the perfect style to do it, from being left-handed to the big topspin.

Connors used to say that he didn't like to give his opponents rhythm, because if they get rhythm then too many bad things could happen. Nadal, on the contrary, loves rhythm, and wants to beat and overwhelm opponents with a rhythm on his own terms, from his routines to his gamestyle. People who face Nadal will get rhythm, but Federer will mix things up a lot more by varying power and slices.
Not to mention that Federer would be sure to count on UE from Carlos that he wouldn't get from Nadal.
 
What fortunate draw was that, then? I recall plenty of people predicting that Agassi would beat Nadal, and that Baghdatis would beat Nadal.

The following year, many people were saying that Berdych would beat Nadal.
Fortunate that Roddick stumbled early.
 
Fortunate that Roddick stumbled early.
Roddick at 2006 Wimbledon? He was out of form by his standards, hadn't gotten to a final in 2006 at that point (two semi finals at San Jose and Queen's Club were his best results), and was beaten in straight sets by a 19-year-old Murray at 2006 Wimbledon. I'd fancy Nadal's chances a lot from the Agassi match onwards to beat that Roddick.

Roddick then hired Connors as coach and saw a revival of form over the next few months, winning 2006 Cincinnati and reaching the 2006 US Open final.
 
What fortunate draw was that, then? I recall plenty of people predicting that Agassi would beat Nadal, and that Baghdatis would beat Nadal.

The following year, many people were saying that Berdych would beat Nadal.
Nadal defeated the best version of Baghdatis on grass that time.
 
Have to say that it’s Nadal’s being lefty that allowed for that anomalously bad matchup for Fed, whose bh was actually excellent (other than super high balls often produced on clay). Fedrah was able to protect it from everyone else not named Nadal and post-2010 Djoko. Carlos may or may not have been able to exploit Fed’s BH imho. Fed may have been at the net as soon as Carlos rolls one of his short topspin FHs…
Why couldn't other left-handed tennis players, not named Nadal, do the same against Federer?
 
Why couldn't other left-handed tennis players, not named Nadal, do the same against Federer?
Good question: Fed actually had an incredible record vs. lefties not named Nadal. Nadal’s game and what made it so challenging to face not just for Fed et al. was his absurd movement, mental toughness, intensity, super solid bh, tennis IQ, etc. Not all lefties used their leftiness effectively: Jurgen Meltzer, Donald Young, Martin Klizan, etc. These guys lacked the all important cross court FH that Nadal, ofc, had 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Nadal got the ball up high to Fedrah’s BH pretty easily on the dirt, which allowed Nadal to dictate and bludgeon you. Maybe a poster will post Fed’s record vs. (non-Nadal) lefties…. It’s remarkable.
 
Which means that Federer's record against left-handers not named Nadal is 115 wins and 12 losses.
Its 132 - 37 vs all lefties and 16-24 vs Nadal.
So 116 - 13 vs the rest.

For Djokovic its 142 - 43 and vs Nadal 30-29
So 112-14 vs the rest

If you remove Nadal from lefties, best you are left with are Mueller, Lopez, Verdasco, Shapovalov, Norrie etc. There are not many top class lefties in the world.
 
Carlos is more impressive overall and on hard/grass. The man has a GS on hard, clay, and grass. That is easily more impressive than 3 GS on clay. This will be the story of their careers because Carlos will be more successful on the other surfaces than Nadal and overall also (health permitting). Not to mention while he won't win 14 FOs he will win a lot of FOs imo. He is cramps away from already having 2 while barely being 21 years old. I don't agree with people saying that Nadal is better on grass because he almost beat peak Fed there. The transitive property doesn't work in sports. Nadal was just a bad matchup for Fed. He was his kryptonite. You think that Nadal (or any version of Nadal) would have ever beaten Nole at the Wimbledon? No way. I think Carlos would have beaten Nadal on grass.
 
Alcaraz aint getting anywhere near Fed 06 and 07... Nadal would've had 2 Wimbledons by age 21 if he had to play 35 + 36 yr old Djok in those finals.

Another numbers only analysis rather than looking at context.
35+36 year old Nole would have beaten any version of Nadal on grass, let alone 21 year old Nadal. It wouldn't have been close. Nole, unlike Fed, actually matches up well against Nadal and can beat him on any surface (heck he even beat Nadal twice at the FO, unlike Fed who never even came close).
 
Yo, second2nun, welcome to boards! Please do not take what’s about to come personally. I’m at the gym about to hit the courts, so I’m gonna defer to someone else to deliver you from the darkness. Saul Good, man.
 
Nadal is ahead considering he had to deal with peak Fed. Alcaraz had a few meetings with a good but aging Djokovic and a bunch of weak era mugz prefering to be prominent on social media instead of on the tennis court.
 
35+36 year old Nole would have beaten any version of Nadal on grass, let alone 21 year old Nadal. It wouldn't have been close. Nole, unlike Fed, actually matches up well against Nadal and can beat him on any surface (heck he even beat Nadal twice at the FO, unlike Fed who never even came close).

35 36 year old djoko?

you are in some fantasy land.

31 yo old djokovic barely beat 32 yo old Nadal. and 31 yo old Djokovic was MUCH better than 35-36 yo Djokovic
and Nadal in Wim 07/08/10 was MUCH better than in Wim 18.
 
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It's obviously Rafa, but Carlos is wonderful. More big titles. and going up against the Fed's zenith.

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Imagine today's Alcaraz against mid 2000s Federer. Does anyone back Alcaraz at the French Open against that Federer? I sure don't. Federer would use variety all over the place to frustrate Alcaraz.
I don't think variety would frustrate Alcaraz, he loves that sh*t and improvised points.

Not like Fed would need that, he was much more consistent and had the killer serve.
 
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Your losing your touch. I expect better from you.
 
Alcaraz

1 x RG
1 x W
1 x USO
36 weeks at world number one
1 x year ending number one
Youngest ever world number one
Youngest ever year ending number one
Youngest ever to win a slam on all three surfaces
2 x IW
1 x Miami
2 x Madrid
Total = 8 big titles



Nadal

3 x RG
3 x MC
3 x Rome
1 x IW
1 x Canada
1 x Madrid

Total = 12 big titles

Nadal still showed the higher level of the two, on clay, and highest overall, but Alcaraz has shown the higher level on grass and hard. For me, Alcaraz is now ahead, having conquered all the three surfaces. The two best of this century at this age.
How are the comparisons now that Alcaraz is very close to turning 22?
:D
 
How are the comparisons now that Alcaraz is very close to turning 22?
:D

Nadal - 3 RG titles, 3 Monte Carlo titles, 3 Rome titles, 1 Canada, 1 Indian Wells, 1 Madrid Indoors

Alcaraz - 1 RG, 2 W titles, 1 USO, 1 YE1, 36 weeks at number one, 2 Indian Wells, 1 Miami, 1 Monte Carlo, 2 Madrid



So up to just before turning 22, Alcaraz is ahead of Nadal.

But 22 to 23 is where Nadal makes his big stride to becoming an ATG, so this year is where Alcaraz needs to keep pace and deliver, or he will be left behind.
 
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Nadal - 3 RG titles, 3 Monte Carlo titles, 3 Rome titles, 1 Canada, 1 Indian Wells, 1 Madrid Indoors

Alcaraz - 1 RG, 2 W titles, 1 USO, 1 YE1, 36 weeks at number one, 2 Indian Wells, 1 Miami, 1 Monte Carlo, 2 Madrid



So up to just before turning 22, Alcaraz is ahead of Nadal.

But 22 to 23 is where Nadal makes his big stride to becoming an ATG, so this year is where Alcaraz needs to keep pace and deliver, or he will be left behind.
Nadal won Hamburg in 2008, his last tournament before turning 22.
Can Alcaraz win Madrid 2025 before he turns 22?
:)
 
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Hub

Nadal won Hamburg in 2008, his last tournament before turning 22.
Can Alcaraz win Madrid 2025 before he turns 22?
:)

I think we will find out.

Ultimately though it is 4 slams to 3 slams, so its not really even between them. The slams come first, masters second.

The biggest challenge for Alcaraz is coming up from RG onwards, that is when Nadal starts his dominant run, and the question is, can Alcaraz stay ahead of the curve or be left behind by Nadal's greatness at the same age
 
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How are the comparisons now that Alcaraz is very close to turning 22?
:D
Nadal after 2008 Hamburg was at:
26 tournaments won
3 majors won
11 masters won
33 consecutive months at world number 2, and had just beaten Djokovic at 2008 Hamburg to stay at world number 2
81 wins in a row on clay from April 2005 to May 2007
Had won 108 of his previous 110 matches on clay
16 tournaments won as a teenager

Alcaraz is currently at:
18 tournaments won
4 majors won
6 masters won
36 weeks at world number 1
9 tournaments won as a teenager
 
Nadal after 2008 Hamburg was at:
26 tournaments won
3 majors won
11 masters won
33 consecutive months at world number 2, and had just beaten Djokovic at 2008 Hamburg to stay at world number 2
81 wins in a row on clay from April 2005 to May 2007
Had won 108 of his previous 110 matches on clay
16 tournaments won as a teenager

Alcaraz is currently at:
18 tournaments won
4 majors won
6 masters won
36 weeks at world number 1
9 tournaments won as a teenager

Alcaraz also - Year ending number one. Channel slam. Youngest to win slams on all three surfaces.
 
Alcaraz also - Year ending number one. Channel slam. Youngest to win slams on all three surfaces.
Nadal at Alcaraz's current age was in the middle of excellent form, soon to win a 4th and 5th major, another masters at the 2008 Canadian Open, an Olympic singles gold medal, and a 6th major at age 22 years and 8 months.

Alcaraz now needs to up his form, or the age to age comparison with Nadal won't last well for too much longer.
 
Nadal at Alcaraz's current age was in the middle of excellent form, soon to win a 4th and 5th major, another masters at the 2008 Canadian Open, an Olympic singles gold medal, and a 6th major at age 22 years and 8 months.

Alcaraz now needs to up his form, or the age to age comparison with Nadal won't last well for too much longer.
Even if it does, Nadal was a better player up to this date. He wouldn’t be losing to Rune or on the verge of losing to Fils in straight sets. He legit bagelled Peak Federer
 
Nadal at Alcaraz's current age was in the middle of excellent form, soon to win a 4th and 5th major, another masters at the 2008 Canadian Open, an Olympic singles gold medal, and a 6th major at age 22 years and 8 months.

Alcaraz now needs to up his form, or the age to age comparison with Nadal won't last well for too much longer.

Yes, which is why I said that the real test for Alcaraz will start from RG 2025 to RG 2026.

As it stands, Alcaraz is ahead on accomplishments, as the 4 to 3 slams seals it, but he needs to keep it going if he wants to keep pace, as this is where Nadal will start to accelerate.
 
Even if it does, Nadal was a better player up to this date. He wouldn’t be losing to Rune or on the verge of losing to Fils in straight sets. He legit bagelled Peak Federer
I should have pointed out before that Nadal's 16 tournament wins as a teenager is a joint record with Borg. Nadal winning 11 tournaments in a calendar year (2005) is also a record for a teenager, beating the previous record of 9 by Wilander in 1983.
 
Pfft. 21 year old Nadal would probably only lose to sinner on hards today.
Berdych beat Nadal in 3 of their first 4 matches. I think Sinner would be easier for that Nadal to beat, because Sinner hits with more topspin than mostly flat hitting Berdych. Blake also hit very flat, who Nadal had trouble with on hardcourt. Youzhny too could flatten it out.
 
Put this laughable comparison to rest. Nadal with today's competition would sweep the entire clay season without dropping a single set.
In an anecdote that Coria told when he was at the Paris Olympic Games with Nadal and Alcaraz, the Spanish left-hander told his apprentice: You were lucky not to face him, pointing at the Argentine.
:)
 
Alcaraz

1 x RG
1 x W
1 x USO
36 weeks at world number one
1 x year ending number one
Youngest ever world number one
Youngest ever year ending number one
Youngest ever to win a slam on all three surfaces
2 x IW
1 x Miami
2 x Madrid
Total = 8 big titles



Nadal

3 x RG
3 x MC
3 x Rome
1 x IW
1 x Canada
1 x Madrid

Total = 12 big titles

Nadal still showed the higher level of the two, on clay, and highest overall, but Alcaraz has shown the higher level on grass and hard. For me, Alcaraz is now ahead, having conquered all the three surfaces. The two best of this century at this age.
There are several players who are better on hard and grass than Nadal, and Alcaraz is one of them.
 
There are several players who are better on hard and grass than Nadal, and Alcaraz is one of them.
Some 29 or so titles for Nadal overall. Carlos will most likely be better outside clay. But let's see how much better.

He won 3 titles off clay in 2023/24 and already won 1 this year.

Nadal won 3 non clay titles only in 05/08/10/13/22.

And Nadal won 0 non clay titles in 2011/12/21

As you can see. The clay courter Nadal didn't have even 2 seasons back to back where he won 3 non clay titles.
 
In an anecdote that Coria told when he was at the Paris Olympic Games with Nadal and Alcaraz, the Spanish left-hander told his apprentice: You were lucky not to face him, pointing at the Argentine.
:)
Coria was a proper clay courter and a very good one at that. He'd be the #1 favourite for this year's RG.
 
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