Carlos weighs in on who is the best in history

[Kralingen]

All I’m gonna say is IF there was an indisputable GOAT then I think it would be indisputable.

As it stands all 3 have flaws and holes in their resumes. None of the 3 have separated themselves head and shoulders above the rest.

Djokovic came the closest but flubbed his opportunity at the CYGS and immortality. Had he won that, I’d hold my hands up and say yeah that’s the GOAT. Instead he lost to Medvedev. So sorry, there’s a debate.

 

[Holmes]

When the GOAT was a guy who could hit an overhead off another player's overhead......hard to accept a GOAT who can't hit an overhead at all. Even a bunny

Some fans of the game found it hard to accept a guy who wasn't the greatest of his generation to be the greatest of all time.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

This is absolutely absurd nonsense.

It is not nonsense. It depends on what your definition of "best" is.
If it is the career numbers then Djoker has the clear edge in stats.
But for Carlos, it is NOT just about the stats. Hence his "all 3 are best" statement.

I think to say who is the best is something that goes beyond the numbers. All three are the best in history.

 

[Clay lover]

He can't win no matter what he says so just best to say something that minimizes damage

 

[nolefam_2024]

fedalovic united

war is over

Not now.

Only if all retired with same stats. Why stop now. Nolefams your player won now don't stop .

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

Nadal/federer can be argued as better players than djokovic sure. I think they were better players. But it’s hard to argue the numbers at this point. You can’t argue the statistics. Nole leads in everything

They were better players but Djokovic was the most psychotically deranged to prove himself at all costs and was very jealous of them when he couldn't beat them for a long time

 

[FeroBango]

Undertaker is the GOAT

The Rock peaked the highest.

 

[Enceladus]

When the GOAT was a guy who could hit an overhead off another player's overhead......hard to accept a GOAT who can't hit an overhead at all. Even a bunny

Just because a tennis player is considered the GOAT doesn't mean he has to be perfect. Even the best of the best have flaws. Djokovic has a weaker smash, Nadal has a weaker serve and Federer had a weaker mental toughness (compared to Djokodal).

 

[Silentchimera]

Some fans of the game found it hard to accept a guy who wasn't the greatest of his generation to be the greatest of all time.

I agree... Djokovic cannot be the GOAT.

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

I agree... Djokovic cannot be the GOAT.

Federer is the bestest, better than all the restest!

 

[Silentchimera]

Just because a tennis player is considered the GOAT doesn't mean he has to be perfect. Even the best of the best have flaws. Djokovic has a weaker smash, Nadal has a weaker serve and Federer had a weaker mental toughness (compared to Djokodal).

This is a myth.

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

This is a myth.

I notice it with all players people love to attribute anything that goes wrong with lack of mental toughness.

 

[fedfan24]

its so funny when fedr had all the records they said he was THE GOAT.. now that djoko has the records they all say "well djoko is the best statistically" lol

Federer also had the GOAT aura, style of play, peak dominance to go with the records. Djokovic has the records, and that’s it. Nadal has the big matches h2h stats in his favour. Federer has all the other elements.

 

[fedfan24]

Why would they? It's like bragging you beat up Mike Tyson in kindergarten.

Prime h2h is fair to both athletes.

Nadal’s prime lasted until 2014 RG.

 

[Phoenix*]

Nadal’s prime lasted until 2014 RG.

No, but I'll take it as a sign that the beating that followed is inexcusable.

 

[fedfan24]

This is a fair comment. It’s inarguable that Djokovic has the best career and stats out of the three, mainly thanks to that fact he lasted the longest and his body held up better.
However watching with our eyes, we can form our own conclusions over who the best player was. Some will say 2006 Federer was better than any Djokovic. Some will say 2008-2010 Nadal. Some will say 2015-2016 Djokovic. Ton of late career, average level slam wins over Ruud, Berretini, Tstisipas won’t really change what already took place from 03-19.

 

[fedfan24]

No, but I'll take it as a sign that the beating that followed is inexcusable.

Well you’re counting wins over 2015-2016 Nadal whilst excluding Nadal’s wins over 07-10 Djokovic.

 

[Phoenix*]

Well you’re counting wins over 2015-2016 Nadal whilst excluding Nadal’s wins over 07-10 Djokovic.

Djo was young, he was tuning his game/body. Prime is what matters.

 

[fedfan24]

Djo was young, he was tuning his game/body. Prime is what matters.

Late-2014 -2016 Nadal was desperately out of form and in his worst career slump. Form + prime matters.

 

[Phoenix*]

Late-2014 -2016 Nadal was desperately out of form and in his worst career slump. Form + prime matters.

Every loss can be excused on form though. Better to count all prime encounters.

Not to mention, Nadal is known for dodging Djo when he's not feeling confident. Chances are he was fit, just uncapable of delivering.

 

[NeutralFan]

Show this to someone and tell them these guys are equal.

17 slams post 2015 and 7 slams before 2015. 17 slams after turning 28 lol. Never saw someone becoming almost thrice as good post his physical peak

 

[Phoenix*]

17 slams post 2015 and 7 slams before 2015. 17 slams after turning 28 lol.

Doesn't change the 2-15 though.

 

[NeutralFan]

Doesn't change the 2-15 though.

Doesn't change Djokovic was only 7 slams in his peak and feasted on the weakest era in history.

 

[Phoenix*]

Doesn't change Djokovic was only 7 slams in his peak and feasted on the weakest era in history.

Slams are whatever for me. I'm all about owning your rivals.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Djokovic first got hold of H2H vs his rivals
Then masters
Then year end number 1
Then weeks at number 1

STILL Some fedfans kept saying he was better so finally

Djokovic hammered Nadal on Phillipe Chatrier getting him out. And then won Wimbledon to tie Federer. He owned almost all the records then.

Then covid ban happened and most of the Nadal fans forgot about all the things happening before. They started saying SLAMS record is EVERYTHING and even 1 slam difference is far better win that it can even erase being a perennial number TWO to Fedkovic. This was really the height.

Then Djokovic took hold of slam records to completely shut down the Nadal is the GOAT dispute. And then started finishing off DECADES old records like Steffi Graf world number 1 record.

Then he got the ATP finals record.

Right now the Fedal fans have absolutely no place to hide behind.

Slams, masters, weeks, year end number 1, YEC, h2h everything is completely with Djokovic. He has even made Alcaraz cry multiple times already.

There are other records as well

1. NCYGS never done before in men's tennis history
2. Golden masters and double golden masters
3. Triple CGS

Now that is the final straw.

 

[fedfan24]

Every loss can be excused on form though. Better to count all prime encounters.

Not to mention, Nadal is known for dodging Djo when he's not feeling confident. Chances are he was fit, just uncapable of delivering.

2015 Nadal wasn’t prime. Do you not know what that word means?

 

[Phoenix*]

2015 Nadal wasn’t prime. Do you not know what that word means?

He was 28. Prime.

 

[fedfan24]

He was 28. Prime.

2008-2010 Djokovic was 21-23. Prime.

 

[soldat]

2008-2010 Djokovic was 21-23. Prime.

1. Prime is more about performance, not age.

2. Men’s bodies don’t finish developing until they are 25+

Each person has a different age for prime performance, and it is a possibility that you can have a stellar performance outside your prime age range, which is at the level of your prime.

 

[fedfan24]

1. Prime is more about performance, not age.

2. Men’s bodies don’t finish developing until they are 25+

Each person has a different age for prime performance, and it is a possibility that you can have a stellar performance outside your prime age range, which is at the level of your prime.

So Nadal 2015-2016 isn’t prime then. Agreed.

 

[Phoenix*]

So Nadal 2015-2016 isn’t prime then. Agreed.

He had already hit his prime in 2010, therefore, he was prime in 2015.

Djokovic had not hit his prime until 2011. Hence, 2011+ is fair to both.

 

[fedfan24]

He had already hit his prime in 2010, therefore, he was prime in 2015.

Djokovic had not hit his prime until 2011. Hence, 2011+ is fair to both.

Completely wrong. 2007-2010 Djokovic >>>>> 2015-2016 Nadal.

Your entire shtick is bollocks.

 

[mike danny]

its so funny when fedr had all the records they said he was THE GOAT.. now that djoko has the records they all say "well djoko is the best statistically" lol

I mean, when Fed had the records Djoko and Nadal fans always brought up "context" and said he was only the most successful player.

 

[big ted]

I mean, when Fed had the records Djoko and Nadal fans always brought up "context" and said he was only the most successful player.

but im not talking about big 3 fans im talking about what the players on the tour say lol

 

[Curtennis]

Make fun of who? Yourself? Your copium is tragic, not funny lol.
When was a lawn a hard court btw lol.
Nadal and Federer appear to be seen by sports fans as greater than Djokovic. As unfair as that may seem it’s just how thimgs are. Djokovic only winning 6 slams during the primes of Federer and Nadal plus recent defeats to two futureatgs alcaraz and sinner when they are far from prime for many affects their judfement of Djokovic. Not much can be done to change thst now sadly.

everyone is entitled to their own unique opinion. Objectively speaking, Djokovic is on an entirely different level.

 

[CHillTennis]

Doesn't change Djokovic was only 7 slams in his peak and feasted on the weakest era in history.

I would say first 10 slams. Djokovic was still in his prime back in the first half of 2016.

 

[RaulRamirez]

They were better players but Djokovic was the most psychotically deranged to prove himself at all costs and was very jealous of them when he couldn't beat them for a long time

Some other "psychotically deranged" athletes by this definition: Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant...

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

Some other "psychotically deranged" athletes by this definition: Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant...

No only Djokovic

 

[big ted]

federer is the godfather of tennis. to go against him would be sacrilegious

 

[nolefam_2024]

federer is the godfather of tennis. to go against him would be sacrilegious

Is that a threat

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

Is that a threat

lmfao

 

[a10best]

By that definition we can't trust anyone, especially ourselves.

There's no one who ever got to witness the full careers of Renshaw to Djokovic and everyone in between. We're all biased by the time we were born.

Well, by that definition we should trust 10 yr olds.
Carlos is young he doesn't know.
Yes, agreed. We are pretty biased as teens or 20-somethings about who is the best because those are the only ones we've seen play. I never saw Wilt, OJ or Baylor play yet older folks love them.
After seeing 2 1/2 generations play it is still up in the air who is the greatest if you put a GOAT from a different era back to the past w/o the future racket technology, sliding or modern swings. Likewise, put an older GOAT into the future with the same training & racket tech it is unknown & impossible. Kind of like having Elon musk being born in the early 1900s along with Nikola Tesla. Who would come out to be the actual genius?

 

[nolefam_2024]

Well, by that definition we should trust 10 yr olds.
Carlos is young he doesn't know.
Yes, agreed. We are pretty biased as teens or 20-somethings about who is the best because those are the only ones we've seen play. I never saw Wilt, OJ or Baylor play yet older folks love them.
After seeing 2 1/2 generations play it is still up in the air who is the greatest if you put a GOAT from a different era back to the past w/o the future racket technology, sliding or modern swings. Likewise, put an older GOAT into the future with the same training & racket tech it is unknown & impossible. Kind of like having Elon musk being born in the early 1900s along with Nikola Tesla. Who would come out to be the actual genius?

Tesla

I have no idea what elon musk does. I know he is the richest guy now but he just reminds me of a former us president.

 

[a10best]

Tesla

I have no idea what elon musk does. I know he is the richest guy now but he just reminds me of a former us president.

Elon doesn't care. he'll say G_Y. it's a strange world.
they should have given Carlos a follow-up question with who will win more slams, you or Jannik?

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

Tesla

I have no idea what elon musk does. I know he is the richest guy now but he just reminds me of a former us president.

He gets us to Mars... so we can die of radiation poisoning.

 

[nolefam_2024]

He gets us to Mars... so we can die of radiation poisoning.

He is a business man and a hype man.

 

[Silentchimera]

its so funny when fedr had all the records they said he was THE GOAT.. now that djoko has the records they all say "well djoko is the best statistically" lol

One faulty argument does not make: one faulty argument = one logical argument. The best (subjective: requires context) statistically (needs context) of what? Statistics (objective: measured with numbers) need context (open to interpretation from each and every individual) to be meaningful (subjective). The best (subjective) statistically of tennis statistics (to you)?

Tennis is the context of the debate. The debate involves challenging our own bias to have greater opinions and beliefs. Are you debating a case for a tennis player to be the (to you) Best Of All Time (BOAT)? Or are you arguing a case for a player to be (to you) the Greatest Of All Time (GOAT)? Maybe both combined? You need to care (subjective) about tennis to meaningfully (subjective) debate tennis (context) achievements (needs context)/statistics (needs context).

Do you need (subjective) to be the greatest (subjective) to be the best (subjective)?

Do you need (subjective) to be the best (subjective) to be the greatest (subjective)?

Just a few thoughts for you to ponder... Focus on your own meaning. You don't need to worry about what other people think as much as you need to understand... Especially if you don't understand greatness/best must have subjectivity. Statistics are worthless without context. Anyone who tells you statistics are useful without meaningful context is spreading misinformation.

 

[soldat]

Tesla

I have no idea what elon musk does. I know he is the richest guy now but he just reminds me of a former us president.

He launches satellites at extremely low cost by reusing parts of the rocket for multiple launches. Satellites are critical now for communications and warfare.

And getting to the point where part of the rocket can be reused took them a long time, so you have to give him credit for having both the foresight and the persistence to pursue this innovation.

It’s possible that the reduced cost of space access can lead to further innovations.

So I admire the guy for his forward looking mentality and desire to innovate. Kind of like the way Djokovic is still looking for ways to improve his game. You get older, but you can still get better.

 

[nolefam_2024]

He launches satellites at extremely low cost by reusing parts of the rocket for multiple launches. Satellites are critical now for communications and warfare.

And getting to the point where part of the rocket can be reused took them a long time, so you have to give him credit for having both the foresight and the persistence to pursue this innovation.

It’s possible that the reduced cost of space access can lead to further innovations.

So I admire the guy for his forward looking mentality and desire to innovate. Kind of like the way Djokovic is still looking for ways to improve his game. You get older, but you can still get better.

He is former president of US for nerds. You admire him I will not

 

[soldat]

He is former president of US for nerds. You admire him I will not

Well, I’m an American Djokovic fan who admires Elon Musk then.

I mean, he is good at what he calls “allocating resources” which is another way of saying good at figuring out what has the potential to make money and getting other rich people and himself to invest in it.

But still it takes foresight and some conviction, and intelligence and good understanding of the basic underlying engineering principles.

And unless a law is introduced or changed he cannot ever become president, as he is born in South Africa.