ollinger
G.O.A.T.
"An Evaluation of High Dose Vitamin D in Rheumatoid Arthritis," Journal of Clinical Rheumatology, 2014. In summary the vitamin D made the disease process worse and the patients' functional abilities were shown to deteriorate.
Caroline Wozniacki diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis
- Thread starter Aussie Darcy
- Start date
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Your "High does Vitamin D trial" paper in reality tested minuscule Vitamin D doses : less than 4700 UI/day - 10 to 70 times lower than used by Dr Coimbra/and 3 times lower than one naturally makes when going out in the sun- !
A common malpractice tool used in bogus scientific studies looking to discredit any new medical breakthrough threatening established profits !
As a result of this low supplementation, their Vitamin D levels at the end of the 1 year trial were barely above 30 ng/mL !
Realize the official levels indicating deficiency are: less than 20 ng/mL , while insufficiency levels are: less than 30 ng/mL !!
No wonder they found no effect.
These people were actually barely Vitamin D sufficient.
That's what you call a sham trial, used by big pharma to fool unsuspecting everyday folks like yourself.
Proof from your paper:
" The research pharmacy randomized eligible subjects using a 1:1 block to placebo or vitamin D2 50,000 IU 3 times weekly for 4 weeks, then 50,000 IU twice monthly for 11 months."
If you add it up, that's 4 x 150.000 UI added to 100.000 UI x 11, which adds up to 1.700.000 UI for a full year, or less than 4700 UI/day.
Where it really gets ridiculous is anyone standing in the sun between the months of april and october at 11.00 - 14.00 for 15 min and with 2/3 of their skin exposed will make in their skin 15.000 UI for that day.
And these researchers have the gall to call their trial "High dose Vitamin D".
Welcome to the real, profit-driven world.
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ollinger
G.O.A.T.
Thank you. The study was funded by grants and NIH, not a pharmaceutical company. Show us some more encouraging data from independent peer-reviewed journals when you get around to it.
AM75
Hall of Fame
Steroids, diet and exercise help to keep it under control, obviously. Still very sad that her career is probably over by the end of the next year. I would speculate that she could even end her career at the AO2019 after such a terrible announcement. On the other hand – hasn't she hired new coaches recently to replace her father?
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Since MS is a life-threatening disease, no controlled placebo trial can be undertaken without ethical violations, as it would imply leaving the control group without treatment.
But the subject of Vitamin D and auto-immunity is a very recent and rich development, and there's no shortage of researchers and literature, as this site can attest.
ollinger
G.O.A.T.
Placebo controlled studies of MS treatment are still done and the issue was nicely discussed in the journal Neurology in 2008, look for the article about placebo controlled studies in multiple sclerosis. And placebo controlled studies are in fact done in other life threatening diseases, certainly when other treatments have failed.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Great.
Then in case you or one of your relatives have cancer ( moreso if considered incurable), you won't mind getting in touch with me, i'm recruiting control subjects for a double blind, placebo-controlled new cancer drug.
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Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
This is a shock. My grandmum had it for years and years until death and it's horrible. I can only hope today's medicine will help Wozniacki cope better with it.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
All my drug research comes from WADA. They know a placebo when they see it!
ollinger
G.O.A.T.
No need for hypotheticals here, one of my older brothers has cancer (multiple myeloma) and is presently in a placebo-controlled study after failing to respond to a prior treatment. Many of those placebo studies allow participants, after the code is broken and the research portion complete, to have a trial of the actual drug if they wish to. A placebo arm of a study is still necessary, especially when dealing with illnesses like cancer that may have low response rates, because if the standard drug and experimental drug both turn out to have lowish response rates, one needs a way to distinguish whether neither drug is having on effect on this particular cohort or there is an actual response that can be differentiated from the placebo response (and yes, there are placebo responses in cancer studies)
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Sorry to tell you this, but your brother isn't in a placebo controlled study.
You cannot add up treatments and then when they fail enroll afterwards in a placebo study, since you already had a treatment ( the fact it failed is of no consequence here).
Mainstream medicine has used this argument for ages to deny the results of alternative cancer therapies, where courageous unconventional doctors cured people who had tried everything until medicine pronounced them hopeless and were given their bag of morphine for the great beyond.
These incurable people left to die were cured by....the time-shifted side effects of their previous conventional treatments, and not by the unconventional treatment received.
Actually, the really big issue here is that there are no published studies of conventionally treated cancer patients (chemo, radio or surgery) versus placebo group with no previous treatment at all.
The reason is the highly suppressed 1953 Fitzerald report by the US department of justice, included in the Congressional record, who contained sworn testimonies by courageous official hospital doctors who testified no cancer treatment at all was much better than conventional cancer treatment when it came to survival length and quality of life.
Not your everyday 8 o'clock news exactly.
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terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
These cancer studies can be falsified and they do it all the time.
You see it in the methodology: if a patient in the non-treated group dies before the end of the treatment period of the study, it gets dully recorded for this non treated group.
But when it comes to the treated group, if a patient dies there before the end of this same period, it doesn't get recorded, simply because he didn't complete the full course of the agreed treatment.
Since cancer patients are resistant in variable ways to their disease, those less resistant who take the treatment but die from the side effects/ or the drug inefficiency aren't comptabilized, while if they die in the non treated group, their death is comptabilized: it ends up skewing the results in favor of the drug.
Which brought many medical critics to point out the more a drug has toxicity, the more those resistant will be selected during the trial as all those less resistant die before the completion.
Ain't that great ?
That's modern medicine for you.
You see it in the methodology: if a patient in the non-treated group dies before the end of the treatment period of the study, it gets dully recorded for this non treated group.
But when it comes to the treated group, if a patient dies there before the end of this same period, it doesn't get recorded, simply because he didn't complete the full course of the agreed treatment.
Since cancer patients are resistant in variable ways to their disease, those less resistant who take the treatment but die from the side effects/ or the drug inefficiency aren't comptabilized, while if they die in the non treated group, their death is comptabilized: it ends up skewing the results in favor of the drug.
Which brought many medical critics to point out the more a drug has toxicity, the more those resistant will be selected during the trial as all those less resistant die before the completion.
Ain't that great ?
That's modern medicine for you.
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2good4U
Professional
That's the way the medical mafia likes it.
2good4U
Professional
Sorry, but most of alternative medicine is full of the same hucksters as conventional medicine.
You're better off trusting your own instinct and experience, than that of others.
Zardoz7/12
Hall of Fame
I feel very sorry for her because she busted her behind to win her first slam, she's comeback from injury and form issues so many times, also for some reason she gets heat from "Tennis fans" and I still don't know why, I think this "heat" stems from that "she was number 1" and didn't win a slam, some people need to let their petty grudges go.
ron schaap
Hall of Fame
I hope baldness is not con
Caroline should get enough vitamin D, if she keeps on running and playing tennis outside. There are claims that cummine could help if you have problems with your joints. That option looks less risky.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Fact is most of the doctors who havn't sold their soul for cash practice in the alternative field.
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water yet.
If i had cancer i sure would go visit Burzynski in his Texas clinic rather than agreeing to the latest "evidence-based" chemo poison they offer you.
That's what Reagan did for his colon cancer: he went pay a visit to Hans Nieper in Germany, which allowed him to get Alzheimer many years later rather than a quick and miserable chemo death.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
This post ranks surely among the silliest ever encountered on a web forum.
Every year the record for children cancers incidence gets broken: every year more and more of them come down with this terrible disease, whereas cancer in children at the beginning of the century was unheard of.
You Sir needs asap to find another subject to post about. Medical topics obviously fly high above your head.
What are you doing about it?
No. And even if they hadn't, it does not make alternative medicine suddenly start working.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
What works/doesn't ain't for you to decide.
Anyone is free to make up it's own mind: each year, more people consult alternative practitioners than orthodox ones.
Right there, that should tell you something about what works and what doesn't.
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terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
dominikk1985
Legend
Also you don't need placebo only controlled studies. In cancer studies are done as an add on to standard therapy. If vitamin D would have an effect it would show as well in add on studies.
You could easily do standard therapy+ placebo vs standard therapy+hit D with no ethical implications.
Like why there is still no cure for cancer? Of course, the right place to get the answer is here and not in medical articles LOL
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Mmm...let's see.
Standard MS therapy cannot stop the progression of the disease: Vit D in high doses can.
Of which study group would you rather be part of, lol ?
Then the treatment administered by Dr Coimbra constitutes a clinical study by itself, since the outcome of standard treatment is already known (a failure).
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Nice strawman.
Read his post again.
He's asking why the failures after so many medical breakthrough announcements?
Have an answer for that ?
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
What is this drug doing?
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
What kind of vitamin D? And and in which form?
Have you heard about Mucuna for MS?
Pistol10
Professional
The problem with medication industry are 2 things:
1) Doctors, "completely" keep ignoring the alternative medication that is based on human past experiments (maybe they were different type of human, not as us).
2) Idiots, keep claiming people in the past had successfully cured everything with vegetables!
We need a mix. Continue developing medication based on past experiments WITHOUT ignoring the alternative medication.
Ancient Alternative practitioners were great scientists not idiots or delusionists, they've studied every part of the human body (& soul) and successfully treated many diseases, and even successfully made very advanced surgeries with very simple tools & brain usage
.Why in some countries, as Germany, they invest in alternative medication while others, as USA, still shyly going to this direction?!
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
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onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
One of my friends just finished chemo last year.
Literally saved his life in the nick of time.
It had already spread from torso to his head and even started to lose vision. Rapid weight loss and deterioration. It was quite scary. He was barely able to fly out to the cancer treatment center without medevac. Amazingly, a year later, it is all in remission. He is still relatively young, so his body was able to handle the chemo.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
1) The incidence of pediatric cancer is on the rise partly due to improved diagnostics and partly due to unknown reasons, probably including environmental and genetic factors. But it’s very misleading to state that the rise of pediatric cancer is proof that human beings are collectively becoming unhealthier. There are other diseases, you know? I know cancer gets all the spotlight in the general public but really, there’s a lot more that’s threatening our health.
2) I’m a physician lol
Edit: that last point doesn’t mean I’m right about everything. Doctors can have differing opinions among themselves too
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
So back in 1980, they didn't know how to diagnose cancer in children, and now in 2018 they do, lol?
How old are you, kid ?
I'm Ivan Lendl.
Nice to meet you.
What about ibuprofen?
That's just wrong. You can't just "cure" everything. Alternative medicines is mostly a bunch of unproven garbage/placebo treatments.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
If it's good enough for Reagan's colon cancer, it's good enough for me.
Now you’re obviously trolling. I’m not going to reply to this
Purplemonster
Hall of Fame
I could be wrong and someone please jump in and correct me if I am, but I think this is a genetic/hereditary condition that doesn’t take into account fitness levels.
And yes of course let’s hope she can deal with it.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Indeed, fitness level has nothing to do with it.
People with AI diseases have a defect in their responses to vit D, meaning it's beneficial effects are diminished compared to normal people.
But Dr Coimbra theorized this genetic resistance could be overcome by increasing the dosage, and he was proved right.
And even with this high dose Vit D treatment, those people have to avoid stressful situations (mental/physical) as it impairs their immunitary response.
High level sportifs deplete their immunitary systems because their extreme physical efforts.
So, in any case, with or without the Coimbra treatment, my guess is her career is well and truly over.
I would be amazed to the contrary.
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Eren
Professional
Don't know what you mean tbh. Anyways, going bald at 18/19 and being completely bald at 22 SUCKS a lot, no matter how some people diminish the value of having hair (mostly they have a full head of hair themselves... lol).
I hope there will be a cure sometime soon.
Desert Ice
New User
Does anyone know Caroline or know how to reach her or know if she reads this board? Caroline needs to go to The Dr. John McDougall Health and Medical Center in Santa Rosa, California. It is a 10 day live in program where she will learn to control her RA by what she eats, not by toxic medicines. I know, I have been living with RA for approximately 6 or 7 years now. You would never believe that I have a chronic, debilitating disease, and I have about 40 years on Caroline. More and more research is out proving autoimmune diseases can be controlled by diet. I do not know if Caroline can ever return to being an elite athlete but I do know she can live a long happy life with very little pain. Oh, Dr. McDougall does not recommend supplementing your diet with Vitamin D.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
Horrible woman, but nobody deserves this, especially at that age.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
I am a big believer in Abracadabra too.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
"A survey of Americans found that 88 percent thought that "there are some good ways of treating sickness that medical science does not recognize".[1] In 2002, at least 60 percent of US medical schools have at least some class time spent teaching alternative therapies"
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
I hope these stats are being offered to me to prove the wholesale dumbing-down of western populations, not that alternative medicine has credibility.
A half of all American believe in stuff being said in History Channel's Ancient Aliens. Scary. More proof that truth is never decided by vote, but by educated experts.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Fixed.
UnderratedSlam
G.O.A.T.
Fixed.
WhiskeyEE
G.O.A.T.
Because you have been lied to your entire life about what medicine is capable of, lol.
We don't even understand how many common medications work. Even decades after FDA approval.
