Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by tennisjunkie101, Jul 13, 2008.
Club voucher system is the only way.
Unless i'm mistaken, you just reiterated what i stated.
Its too bad that they didn't hire him and let him move forward with his plan. It seems to make sense.
Okay, I see your point. When I used the word 'ignored' I meant the USTA completely ignored Robert's ideas about identifying younger kids.
I did not mean the word ignored as in they did not even meet with him. I should have been more clear in what I meant.
In the end, the USTA gives half an ear to Lansdorp and Macci....and gives high paying jobs to McEnroe and Higueras!
Seems silly. Let Macci and Lansdorp identify the little kids they think deserve further training and get them set up with the proper strokes....then let other coaches (Higueras, etc.) do the training when they get older.
But neither McEnroe or Higueras are experts at identifying young talent.
Unlike many countries including Australia, New Zealand, France, Spain. The U.S. does not have "tradition" behind tennis. Our tradition extends to baseball, basketball, football. Unfortunately no one coach (Landsdorp, Macci, Huigueras or otherwise) will ever change that. Further, too many parents, and kids (rightfully so) are not going to leave their private coaches who were largely responsible for their success in the first place. So it is like a dog chasing his tail. Identifying is only one of the components, there are things like personality cohesiveness, ability to get to the training facility etc. If someone in Chicago is a developing talent. How on earth are you going to justify bringing them to Carson, or Florida at the age of 8, when there is no way to determine the likelyhood of success.
TCF, did you hear about the guy in West Palm who was caught beating up his kid and stuffing clay into her mouth? Ugh. Apparently she didn't do well at practice. Unfortunately that is just one example among many horrible things done in junior tennis.
I agree, most won't move to Carson or Boca at that young age, and they don't have to. The USTA can support and monitor them right where they are. Then as they get older have the ones who are still progressing targeted for elite training.
Yeah, this nut job?
Imagine a world not too far away. Every junior who has a USTA number and is coached by either a member club, a private coach or even a parent. As well as demonstrate they can run a 40 yd. dash in XX seconds, a round of "spiders" in XX time, run 1 mile in XX minutes, and basic tennis "technical" skills. This junior then gets a voucher equal to one or two privates, or 4 clinics per month. From there, based on demonstrated improvement in all of the above the value of the voucher can remain the same, increase or be eliminated.
As they get older and rankings come into the picture the voucher value can then incorporate travel vouchers (these could effectively be negotiated with airlines, and hotels), wild card vouchers, etc.
Just a thought.
they started ....
they started .... we'll just have to wait and see what kind of results they get...
I hear that Higueras is a nice guy.. so I wish him nothing but the best...
This is a good idea.
I'm also for handing out the cash when they show results at big events. I absolutely think our kids deserve extra prize money at ITFs, not pros in the US Open Series. They are rich enough. Take that money and if an American wins a $10K (like Kristie Ahn) give her a bonus prize money over the winner's check. Then she can afford to go to another tournament. Also maybe pay more for medical treatment which a lot of the other federations do.
Just a note. The example you use, Kristie Ahn, is not necessarily apropros. Kristie is an amateur and plans to attend and play in college. Therefore, she does not/cannot accept most of the winners check, much less "bonus prize money". She can only accept money that directly covers the expenses for that tournament (travel, food, entry fees, stringing, etc.). Anything more than that and she forfeits her amateur status.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that detail!! I guess this would work for those signed up as pros, but not the amateurs. On the other hand up to a point they will not cover expenses. I wonder what they could do though for the players who do not want to turn pro right away but are showing promise? Maybe more training or something. I just think it is so hard for those kids out there in the $10Ks.
IMO if I were Kristie I would go pro and go to college later. I can understand both points but she is going to play so much in college. Then if she plays ITFs in the summer she is going to be so beaten up.
A voucher system can be easily expanded to not jeopardize eligibility. For example, lets assume a rising junior reaches deep in a draw. Q's or better then vouchers for airline, hotel and food travel for the junior and one chaperone would be issued. Further, if a junior does win prize money in a 10K futures and is required to turn the money back that is in excess of expenses can be given an equal voucher for more travel or coaching expense.
None of this would ever jeopardize eligibility. Now I'm no rocket scientist but it seems to me that by now someone at the USTA could've figured this out.
I would give anything to see an income statement and balance sheet. I'm willing to bet a nice lunch the money is there somewhere. Whether it is there now, or can be made available by line item budget cuts, I'm sure it's there. They bought Active.com which is now tennislink, this did not come cheap. Albeit a great entry system, it does lead one to perceive the amount of money they really have.
Nor are you a lawyer who has read all the NCAA regulations, so how can you declare that this would not jeopardize eligibility? I am pretty sure that accepting any prize money that goes beyond paying the expenses incurred by that one tournament would ruin your NCAA eligibility.
^^^ Please read the post carefully, "Further, if a junior does win prize money in a 10K futures and is required to turn the money back that is in excess of expenses can be given an equal voucher for more travel or coaching expense."
Any prize money in excess of expenses MUST be relinquished. For what it is worth, I am saying that the amount relinquished would be exchanged for a voucher for future travel, and coaching.
the winner of a 10k future is not going to have to worry about making too much... air-fare(for both coach and player),hotel and living expense,meals,ect.. everything could be written off with a 10K future's earnings of what?? $2000 at most??,for winning.. I don't see the point that CLARKC is arguing about...
Thanks, as I don't either. Just as an FYI at this time NCAA regulations do not believe that coaching is an expense which is offset by earnings in a tennis tournament. Only housing, food, travel, and costs to play the tournament (rental car, stringing etc). Coaching is specifically excluded as an expense at this time.
Anyway, back to winnings. Even 3 rounds in a challenger, unless it is being held in your back yard is not going to earn significant excess. This is why I believe in the voucher system. If a junior can clear three rounds in a challenger then he or she should absolutely be given further opportunity for travel, coaching as well as housing, and meals.
If both of you will re-read and think about it you will see the point. Flying the coach there, paying the coach, etc., are your problem, according to the NCAA.
Also note that tenniscrazed proposed that someone could apply this week's earnings to future travel and coaching vouchers. According to the NCAA, they cannot.
just need corporate sponsors
I don't know about voucher system ,but I think all USTA needs to do is to go out and find sponsors for the players,or at least open some doors for them.. as in many smaller nations like Taiwan or Thailand,they are sending as many players as they can to play ITF and Jr.Grand Slams.. Jr. players needs this kind of experience because winning an international competitions is not about who hits the best tennis ball... they are sending kids all over the world because they are all sponsored by a large company that can use the expense as a tax write off... so why can't US do the same? I mean even a small or middle size company in U.S. can surely help some kids and write it off somehow from their tax structure...
The problem there is that could jeopardize eligibility. If a company were to singularly sponsor someone with anything other than racquets, shoes, strings, clothing. Then it maybe considered "play for pay". Especially if the junior wears a corporate logo (ie Dell, or GM, or even a mid size firm say a local bank)
Consider this. The following is from a forum on underground tennis dot com:
"in europe, juniors are treated like pros. in france, for example, they have prize money in JUNIOR events. how good is that? not a lot, but enough to entice kids to keep playing. if they don't get money they get cool prizes like babolat gear, shoes, strings, bottles of wine, etc. screw the plastic trophies and show me the paper."
Obviously, I've no idea if this is true, but if so...
It is true actually. Also, housing is readily available for traveling juniors and their coaches. Usually made available by the tournament directors or club managers. In Germany, tennis is so entrenched in the club system that almost every player plays German League during the summer.
That will never happen here. Regretfully, it appears to me that the entire system is riddled with self protection, greed and a complete disregard for the long term development of the children. We are after short term fixes, not long term results.
Higueras was at the Gorin-Higueras Academy in Sacramento for the last few years, training juniors is one of their focus.
I don't know any details, so maybe someone from Sac area have some first hand experience.
^ Sounds pretty much like the typical 'American way' to me.
This can be seen in many aspects of American life - not only tennis.
Why is anyone surprised?
I think one of the reasons American tennis is in the toilet is because college gets in the way.
Querry is useless on anything but fast hard, he moves like a cow and has a weak backhand. OF course what American does have a backhand?
Maybe if Arlen Kanterian, JAne Brown Grimes and Billie Jean King were not getting paid 800,000 a year each from the USTA it could free up some money for some players like Travis Rettemaier #300 in world caucasian kid who has never recieved a penny from the USTA to get a chance.
What exactly is Billie Jeans contribution? getting equal pay for women players I guess. Foregt the fact that only 5 people watch 1st round womens matches in Carson for wta mathces between the 80th ranked players. And 2 of the 5 are coaches and or life partners.
Separate names with a comma.