cartwheel on forehand

[marian10]

I'm in good period with my modern FH (not often the case)

The coil from left side of the chest is a strong point of reference. Left oblique is totally ignored when i lose the feel.

Now what i do is a kind of slight waist tilt, a mini "cartwheel bend" as on the serve. It enhances right hip external rotation i think.

Is it correct? Is it injury prone?

 

[taurussable]

I'm in good period with my modern FH (not often the case)

The coil from lest side of the chest is a strong point of reference. Left oblique is totally ignored when i lose the feel.

Now what i do is a kind of slight waist tilt, a mini "cartwheel bend" as on the serve. It enhances right hip external rotation i think.

Is it correct? Is it injury prone?

interesting topic, however, can you post a video to help explain?

 

[dominikk1985]

what do you mean? the hitting shoulder dipping lower than the non hitting shoulder?

 

[marian10]

yes kind of like this but more for stretching the left side of chest an loading rather than seeking lever.

A way to feel it : open stance /put weight on the back foot / coil and pull your chest back toward the ground.

You'll feel left oblique arcing down like a bow, as well as laterally. Left hip "goes up", right hip goes back into external rotation. Maybe glute is stretching also.

one benefit i feel is that it puts pressure down through the loading leg on the ground. Like you already lower and bend upper body above it and pressure down->more loading idk?

Is it a solution to avoid super low leg bending (compressing the ground)? Or to compensate for lack of coiling because of time? Or just a bowing force?

maybe there

or there? Shoulders seem to tilt back a bit

 

[dominikk1985]

there is an interesting theory in golf about that:

http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifesty.../2010-04-spine-engine-swing-lateral-bend.html

not sure what to think about it but it does sound interesting.

 

[TennisCJC]

The world consists of all types of people. I think you might be over analyzing the movements, but I think everything you are saying is correct.

I would keep the analysis more simple. Yes, it is correct to load weight on the back leg combined with a slight knee bend on that leg. Yes, you also coil the shoulders as you execute the take back. Then lift with legs as you un-coil into contact.

I think we are saying the same thing in different ways.

Vic Braden, the older coach who just passed away, was teaching "sit and lift" since the 70s. James Blake also quoted the "sit and lift" term during his career. To me, this means getting that knee bend and lifting with legs as you rotate into the shot. Vic's sit was lower and probably a bit too extreme but similar to the modern technique which is with a semi-open stance and loading the back leg with weight.

Anyhow, the basic movements you describe are solid in my view.

 

[marian10]

lateral bending

there is an interesting theory in golf about that:

http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifesty.../2010-04-spine-engine-swing-lateral-bend.html

not sure what to think about it but it does sound interesting.

According to Dr. Gracovetsky and the research on spine movements, lateral bending plus lumbar lordosis will produce axial rotation. This is due to the fact that our vertebrae have facets that are like geared teeth.

And when these facets connect to each other, they act like gears and produce rotation. But they can only do that when the two moves; lateral bend and lumbar lordosis are paired together. Thus, these two major moves are of utmost importance if we are to use our spine engine. If not, you're only left with muscular effort to overcome the lack of assistance from the powerful spine engine.

In the end, the ultimate goal is to use both spine engine and muscular effort to produce the most powerful and repeatable swing. The problem is that if the spine engine isn't working, it leads to swing dysfunctions and worse yet, back injury. So let's take a closer look at these moves in golf terms.

wow that's even more visually striking. Those guys compress the hellout of the ground with the bending spine/core

I hadn't even envisaged the idea of loading the core to the ground to create counter-force (for a lack of word sorry) instead of loading the legs. The traditional view on coiling= horizontal / lateral, vertical force= legs/arm. Here it's coiling chest down, forcing the legs down.

The golf analogy ends with not having true downswings in tennis or maybe we don't have true forward swings either?

Could be important to understand how pros get the heavy topspin with little noticable effort. Of course clean technique is premium, i don't believe in magical concepts.

The two in bold quotes are scary for low back pain

 

[marian10]

simple experience for feel not stroke learning

- lower legs for your usual FH

- Stand staight again. Now press your chest to the ground and resist a little with legs, or use the ground as resistance -> you feel a "compression" of the abs

 

[corners]

I'm in good period with my modern FH (not often the case)

The coil from left side of the chest is a strong point of reference. Left oblique is totally ignored when i lose the feel.

Now what i do is a kind of slight waist tilt, a mini "cartwheel bend" as on the serve. It enhances right hip external rotation i think.

Is it correct? Is it injury prone?

Dropping the right shoulder/sidebending to the right is a feature of both Fed and Nadal's forehands. Not every pro does it. Might want to do some searching for posts by poster "tricky." He used to right about this idiosyncrasy, as well as all sorts of all technique nuance stuff.