Centers in NBA: like S&V in tennis, in extinction

[kiki]

Yeah, we can certainly trace a paralelism.If technology has made S&V unexistent, the athletic evolution but also the strategies and college priorities in their programs have killed that specimen that made basketball such a great game: the centers.

They are now in the paleontology museums, like Dinosaurs but those of us who followed NBA Golden years ( 1980 and early to middle 1990´s) will credit them as one of the main reason, if not the main, to get sticked to this wonderful sport.

Maybe Jordan started a evolution but, after O´Neal and Duncan ( who is not a true 5) we haven´t had men that could play the position with the class and decissive authority as of those legends of the 1960´-1990´s period.

Russell and Chamberlain, Jabbar, Thurmond,Walton and Lanier and then the best loaded era, the 80´s with Malone,Parish,Olajuwon,Laimbeer,Sikma,Gilmore,Daugherty,Ruland,Ewing and later on David Robinson.There were some fails, for different reasons, like Bowie and Sampson.

Hey, any of the second string centers of the era would wipp the floor with any NBA current seven footer if he could get the ball, because now, what you get is James playing center for the US team¡¡¡

And I am talking about respected guys such as Issel,Mahorn,Robbey,Carroll,Dawkins,Rollins,Chambers,Nater,Chones,Mutombo,Eaton.The list was so loaded that quality centers like Audie Norris,Dwight Jones,Bruce Flowers, Kim Hughes or Wallace Bryant had to go to Europe to make a living.

is there any other reasoning why this special specimen has gone downfall?

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

It also speaks about the work ethnic of today's younger generations. It's hard to learn and beat your man (or the double team) in the post over and over again.

Meanwhile, getting a screen and then blowing by your perimeter defender, and then charging head first into the paint defender and get a blocking call in the process, now that's easy.

 

[Vcore89]

Duncan did his best and contended with the best in the 5 position, O'neal didn't fulfill his God given talent to the utmost.

Not to derail this but I can say there are many great centres, small forwards, and point guards but there is only one MJ at the sg and the one ultimate pf in TD!

Sam Bowie and Sampson, aren't they an oddity (never saw them)?

 

[kiki]

Duncan is great but I have seen other players who excelled as much as 4.

Bowie was called crystal knees for nothing

as for Ralph, the best way to describe him is a tall running FW ( 7,3 inch)

He was the star of Virginia and his duels with Pat Ewing (Geeorgetown) had huge national coverage.The other two big college teams of the early 80´s being Tar heels led by Jordan and Daugherty and Cougars led by Olajuwon and Drexler.

Olajuwon and Sampson played two years together at Houston and they seemed unstoppable.They were called the twin towers for nothing...but the best front line ever assembled, the 85-86 Celtics stopped them in the finals after Houston trashed LA in the West Finals.Sampson wento onto a big drug problem, I think, and ended his days playing in a mediocre european team.

Olajuwon and Cougar mate, Clyde the glide played together again...12 yrs later at Houston and that is when the Rockets won their two rings.

Drexler was second to Jordan as the best SG in the NBA in those days.

 

[kiki]

It also speaks about the work ethnic of today's younger generations. It's hard to learn and beat your man (or the double team) in the post over and over again.

Meanwhile, getting a screen and then blowing by your perimeter defender, and then charging head first into the paint defender and get a blocking call in the process, now that's easy.

spot on.You nailed it.

 

[Vcore89]

Duncan is great but I have seen other players who excelled as much as 4.

Bowie was called crystal knees for nothing

as for Ralph, the best way to describe him is a tall running FW ( 7,3 inch)

He was the star of Virginia and his duels with Pat Ewing (Geeorgetown) had huge national coverage.The other two big college teams of the early 80´s being Tar heels led by Jordan and Daugherty and Cougars led by Olajuwon and Drexler.

Olajuwon and Sampson played two years together at Houston and they seemed unstoppable.They were called the twin towers for nothing...but the best front line ever assembled, the 85-86 Celtics stopped them in the finals after Houston trashed LA in the West Finals.Sampson wento onto a big drug problem, I think, and ended his days playing in a mediocre european team.

Olajuwon and Cougar mate, Clyde the glide played together again...12 yrs later at Houston and that is when the Rockets won their two rings.

Drexler was second to Jordan as the best SG in the NBA in those days.

Name one at least with the tangibles, multiple regular MVPS, Finals MVP, Championships and being the heart and soul of the team. Even coming in as a rookie, David Robinson had to hand the reins and take second billing because he sees the Spurs future and thankfully so, Robinson would've retired ring-less if he was not being prudent!

 

[kiki]

Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Mo Lucas, Kevin Mc Hale, Dennis Rodman in the defense&rebound section are in that league.

Terry Cummings had the level but got through too many injuries.Buck Williams was an insane rebound monster.

 

[kiki]

No team could win without a dominant center back in those days.Jordan did but he is a special case.

Of course, far from Celtics quality, but another very well rounded front line was the Pistons with Aguirre/Dantley, Carr,Laimbeer,Edwards,Dirty Mahorn and Salley

The LAL had Worthy,Rambis,Mc Adoo,Jabbar,Jones and Nater.Massive.

 

[Vcore89]

Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Mo Lucas, Kevin Mc Hale, Dennis Rodman in the defense&rebound section are in that league.

Terry Cummings had the level but got through too many injuries.Buck Williams was an insane rebound monster.

Karl Malone, oh please, only move he got is his knee high in your chest or at your back--ring less! McHale, sixth man award, yeah, nothing like MVPesque and Charles is still barking, ever so slightly now and still ring less! Rodman is a small forward humiliating Karl Malone (even his patented knee to the chest proves useless against the worm). Conclusion, no one. I bet ESPN couldn't come up with ''even just one'' in the best ever PF category!

 

[kiki]

never seen Mc Hale did ya?

If he was black and dark as Duncan...well, he has more rings to start with

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

never seen Mc Hale did ya?

If he was black and dark as Duncan...well, he has more rings to start with

Seriously, Kevin McHale was dancing on people long before The Dream did. And Charles Barkley was bulldozing people long before Blake Griffin too.

Also, I thought we're talking about centers, why are we talking about power forwards here?

 

[kiki]

Seriously, Kevin McHale was dancing on people long before The Dream did. And Charles Barkley was bulldozing people long before Blake Griffin too.

Also, I thought we're talking about centers, why are we talking about power forwards here?

Because Vscore brought it up with Tim Duncan.

You are so right about it.Mc Hale was the most complete and his untangibles and work ethic, well, you had to follow him and his team to know what he did.

Now, coming back to topic, I always felt bad for two centers: Bill Walton with his severe injuries case, he could have become the greatest of all with those amazingly smart moves and rolls.

Joe Barry Carroll´s best year was in Simac Milano of the italian league.He played with the best italian center ever, the legendary Dino Meneghin and won everything in sight.Mike D´antoni was their point guard.But JBC was a fail when he played NBA competition.

Even in Europe, although to a lesser degree, there are no more great centers.No Cosic,Meneghin,Sabonis,Divac anymore.

 

[Vcore89]

never seen Mc Hale did ya?

If he was black and dark as Duncan...well, he has more rings to start with

His 3 rings thanks to the main man, Bird. Uh-oh! Still doesn't cut it.

You kept on arguing Led Zep is goat and kept derailing recent O&E threads yet they're not the one and only band standing alone. Now, I'm infusing the best ever PF in NBA (in your best centres speak--fair enough? yeah?:-|) and I bet ESPN or any NBA legends won't be able to pick up another as impressive as TD's resume.

Keep trumpeting Malone's one dirty move!

 

[kiki]

I don' t negate Duncan is or was an all timer and he clearly is much better than anyone else as number 4 for the last 20 yrs
But, you know, he has the very same problem as Federer in tennis
Dominating a weak era vs the more qualitative shares of Golden Era
Basketball allows self improvement from one to one experience
That is the key factor that place guys like MC Hale or Mailman in another status
Because, yeah, they had to be THAT GOOD to be so great in such a competitive environtment

 

[kiki]

His 3 rings thanks to the main man, Bird. Uh-oh! Still doesn't cut it.

You kept on arguing Led Zep is goat and kept derailing recent O&E threads yet they're not the one and only band standing alone. Now, I'm infusing the best ever PF in NBA (in your best centres speak--fair enough? yeah?:-|) and I bet ESPN or any NBA legends won't be able to pick up another as impressive as TD's resume.

Keep trumpeting Malone's one dirty move!

I don' t know if you really watched many matches in the 80' s but, if you did, we have a different read
The reason Bird won three rings is MC Hale not the other way round

 

[hollywood9826]

Duncan won 4 titles (3finals MVPs) in an era where Shaq and Kobe were in the Primes. And has barely missed out on 3 or 4 more rings.

I think Barkley has even said TD is best PF ever. Shaq agrees.

As far as Sampson he had three or four knee surgeries and never healed from them. I think Bowie was a similar situation.

The game is faster and more uptempo now. Big Lethargic centers can get pulled away from the hoop and dont run the floor very well. Thats why teams have been getting smaller and smaller. LeBron can play Center against most teams out there and still has a weight advantage over most of them.

 

[hollywood9826]

I don' t know if you really watched many matches in the 80' s but, if you did, we have a different read
The reason Bird won three rings is MC Hale not the other way round

If Duncan had a player of Birds caliber he would have won every title.

McHale was very good. He had the slickest post moves around. He had moves and counter moves then a move to counter the counter move.

He didnt have Duncans shooting touch and was not as strong as Duncan. I think Duncan in prime was also better at blocking shots

 

[kiki]

You wouldn' t tell how influential MC Hale had been in a given match till you watched the sheet
There you would realize he had been in doubles figures as usual
Plus a very big intangible: he wouldn't care to defend any small Fwd no matter size disadvantages...and any center no matter size disadvantages
Duncan is mellow compared to Kev

 

[Vcore89]

You wouldn' t tell how influential MC Hale had been in a given match till you watched the sheet
There you would realize he had been in doubles ffigures as usual
Plus a very big intangible: he wouldn't care to defend any small Fwd no matter size disadvantages...and any center no matter size disadvantages
Duncan is mellow compared to Kev

Keep trumpeting Mail-the-knne in your chest with his sidekick's vaunted chicken wing!

Sorry, mega fail for you no matter how you splice it, c'mon, McHale better than TD--preposterous!

 

[kiki]

Keep trumpeting Mail-the-knne in your chest with his sidekick's vaunted chicken wing!

Sorry, mega fail for you no matter how you splice it, c'mon, McHale better than TD--preposterous!

Didn´t necessarily say he was better, but he was mentally tougher.

When did you start watching pro basketball?

 

[Vcore89]

Didn´t necessarily say he was better, but he was mentally tougher.

When did you start watching pro basketball?

As soon as I can play tennis and do 360° on my bmx, around the time Grant Hill was the real thing, in Michael's comeback. But hey I watched those Bird, Parish ''Chief'', Mc Hale on tapes also, dad being a Bird fan and I would always tease him, ''why so slow? Why can't they jump (they are just tall but they can't jump)?''

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

This thread doesn't make any sense anymore.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Why is Kevin McHale being questioned here? Center, power forward, whatever!

If Kevin McHale was teaching you how to play in the post, and he says "Good Afternoon", you write that s*** down!

 

[Vcore89]

Why is Kevin McHale being questioned here? Center, power forward, whatever!

If Kevin McHale was teaching you how to play in the post, and he says "Good Afternoon", you write that s*** down!

Don't you worry about this sidestep, it will right itself. Likewise, don't let your thread get entangled with the Sterling stuff too much. All is good here mate. Cheers.

 

[Disgruntled Worker]

The game is faster and more uptempo now. Big Lethargic centers can get pulled away from the hoop and dont run the floor very well. Thats why teams have been getting smaller and smaller. LeBron can play Center against most teams out there and still has a weight advantage over most of them.

This

10chars

 

[Disgruntled Worker]

The only reason to bring up power forwards in this discussion is to talk about how the lines between fours and fives has been blurred in recent years. You can bring up Tim Duncan since he switched between PF and C most seamlessly. But let's go back to the original out-of-position player. The 6' 9'' guy that played like a 6' 1'' guy. Magic Johnson - the one player other than LeBron that could truly play all five spots.

 

[kiki]

As soon as I can play tennis and do 360° on my bmx, around the time Grant Hill was the real thing, in Michael's comeback. But hey I watched those Bird, Parish ''Chief'', Mc Hale on tapes also, dad being a Bird fan and I would always tease him, ''why so slow? Why can't they jump (they are just tall but they can't jump)?''

Yep whites can't jump I know
Grant Hill is one of the biggest talent wasters seen on the oranged wood square

 

[Vcore89]

Yep whites can't jump I know
Grant Hill is one of the biggest talent wasters seen on the oranged wood square

Nope, all of them tall guys can't jump (and slow back then), they just have longer reach.

Grant Hill, Allan Houston and most recently Gilbert Arenas, big contracts flushed down the drain.

 

[LeeD]

Jon Barry won the NBA Slam Dunk once, at 6'7", could slam his head on the rim going for dunks.
Pete Maravich could hit his head on the rim during a game, dunking.
Dwight Stone can clear 7'9".
White boyz can jump, some of them.
Grant Hill is lucky he could play B-ball at all, considering his foot/ankle problems since college.

 

[Vcore89]

The only reason to bring up power forwards in this discussion is to talk about how the lines between fours and fives has been blurred in recent years. You can bring up Tim Duncan since he switched between PF and C most seamlessly. But let's go back to the original out-of-position player. The 6' 9'' guy that played like a 6' 1'' guy. Magic Johnson - the one player other than LeBron that could truly play all five spots.

Exactly the point but what I'm trying to say to kiki is that TD at the PF position is The Best Ever. Anyhow, to date, only Magic and LBJ at 6'9'' and 6'8'' respectively can man all 5 positions.

 

[Vcore89]

Jon Barry won the NBA Slam Dunk once, at 6'7", could slam his head on the rim going for dunks.
Pete Maravich could hit his head on the rim during a game, dunking.
Dwight Stone can clear 7'9".
White boyz can jump, some of them.
Grant Hill is lucky he could play B-ball at all, considering his foot/ankle problems since college.

Of course some can, occasionally John Stockton can dunk it like AI would.

Only talking about tall guys, NBA tall, at least 6'10''.

Grant Hill with crystal ankle aside could've been MJesque? No?

 

[LeeD]

I think if you can find some video on Tom Chambers, PhoenixSuns PF, when he was in college, you'd find some sky shots of him at eye level to the rim. He hurt his back in college later, lost his hops in the pros.

 

[LeeD]

And as far as the "need" for having a center.
GoldenState had no centers. Clips abused them in the paint. They have THREE guys who can play basketball at the center position.

 

[kiki]

I think if you can find some video on Tom Chambers, PhoenixSuns PF, when he was in college, you'd find some sky shots of him at eye level to the rim. He hurt his back in college later, lost his hops in the pros.

Good player Tom.Solid and reliable and had a great jump.A white that could jump with the bros.

 

[kiki]

Why is Kevin McHale being questioned here? Center, power forward, whatever!

If Kevin McHale was teaching you how to play in the post, and he says "Good Afternoon", you write that s*** down!

and the ocasional trey to blast defenses as well

and don´t forget the other mormon, Danny Ainge.never seen many SG who could defend like a demon and nail it from so far as well.
The bench was as solid as they come ( not just Walton but people like Quinn Buckner and Scottie Wedman).And Dennis Johnson is way underrated.

 

[kiki]

The only reason to bring up power forwards in this discussion is to talk about how the lines between fours and fives has been blurred in recent years. You can bring up Tim Duncan since he switched between PF and C most seamlessly. But let's go back to the original out-of-position player. The 6' 9'' guy that played like a 6' 1'' guy. Magic Johnson - the one player other than LeBron that could truly play all five spots.

Very true.Before, a 4 was a 4 and a 5 was a 5.

 

[Power Player]

Im trying to get this myth that you don't need bigs in the NBA and I can not. Miami has LBJ, a top 3 goat. They still went out and resigned Birdman for some size inside, plus Greg Oden who can barely play just to have some size on the bench for a low cap hit. The weakness of Miami is their interior, and Roy Hibbert (a true C who has been playing poorly) has the opportunity to step up and take advantage of this.

The Heat are one of the few small teams I can remember that won an NBA title and they did it with 3 perennial all stars who were considered top 25 players when they all signed together a few years back. On top of that, they barely won it all last year, and it took a miracle 3 from Ray Allen to stay alive.

Looking at San Antonio, by all means a slow, plodding team at the 4 and 5 and fast at 1-3 - I think this physical model has proven itself to work in playoff basketball.

Playoff basketball has sped up over the years, but it still is a more physical and slower game than regular season or any european league variant. Example - The Hawks ran a 4 out offense and it failed in round 1.

My point - an impact C is still a game changer, which is why Joel Embiid will (barring his back failing the Dr.s test) be a top 3 pick in a talent laden draft.

The S&V is not still a game changer and is more of a strategy change used now and then.

Not a good analogy IMO.

 

[dominikk1985]

The big man in the NBA has changed. Big men now play more on the wing. dirk nowitzki is kind of the prototype of the modern 7 footer. he plays outside and shots 3s or penetrates to the basket.

the low post is not used a lot anymore. part of this is because the defense cannot play as hard anymore. in these days a player can grab a ball and just run to the basket and dunk it because defenders are not allowed to do a lot. that leads to a very penetration driven game which is of course what the NBA wants ever since MJ.

there is just not as much need for an offensive center, you want to keep the space around the rim free for fast drives.

most of the top scorers of the last decade mostly scored via drives (MJ, kobe, ,Lebron, iverson, bryant...) some of them can shoot 3s well too. but the low post or even high post is not used a lot anymore.

it is not the game becoming less skilled just other things needed because of different conditions.

 

[dominikk1985]

Im trying to get this myth that you don't need bigs in the NBA and I can not. Miami has LBJ, a top 3 goat. They still went out and resigned Birdman for some size inside, plus Greg Oden who can barely play just to have some size on the bench for a low cap hit. The weakness of Miami is their interior, and Roy Hibbert (a true C who has been playing poorly) has the opportunity to step up and take advantage of this.

The Heat are one of the few small teams I can remember that won an NBA title and they did it with 3 perennial all stars who were considered top 25 players when they all signed together a few years back. On top of that, they barely won it all last year, and it took a miracle 3 from Ray Allen to stay alive.

Looking at San Antonio, by all means a slow, plodding team at the 4 and 5 and fast at 1-3 - I think this physical model has proven itself to work in playoff basketball.

Playoff basketball has sped up over the years, but it still is a more physical and slower game than regular season or any european league variant. Example - The Hawks ran a 4 out offense and it failed in round 1.

My point - an impact C is still a game changer, which is why Joel Embiid will (barring his back failing the Dr.s test) be a top 3 pick in a talent laden draft.

The S&V is not still a game changer and is more of a strategy change used now and then.

Not a good analogy IMO.

I think you are getting that wrong. nobody said that the NBA doesn't need big men anymore. there are more big men then ever, however they are playing a different game.

you still need them for rebounding a defense and some of them can score well by driving or shooting but the classic post game with the back to the rim and center moves is not used as much anymore.

big men are still there but their game has changed.

 

[Power Player]

No im not. The title said centers not big men. You are describing the stretch 4, which is a PF who can shoot long range. The classic post game is used by many centers.

Dirk is a power forward. Not a center.

I watch plenty of centers with a classic post game. Do not confuse stretch 4s with centers. They are a compliment to a post player because they free up space inside.

 

[hollywood9826]

No im not. The title said centers not big men. You are describing the stretch 4, which is a PF who can shoot long range. The classic post game is used by many centers.

Dirk is a power forward. Not a center.

I watch plenty of centers with a classic post game. Do not confuse stretch 4s with centers. They are a compliment to a post player because they free up space inside.

Who? Zach Randolph, Guy in Charlotte, Guy in Detroit, maybe Hibbert every 3rd game . I cant think of many others.

The Mark Eaton Types are gone and I think that was more of the point of the OP. Hibbert can be exploited as we have seen by the hawks in the 1st round. The pace is changed and you have to be able to run the court.

Its easy to say nobody will be like Hakeem, The Admiral, and Ewing. Its obvious a player comes along with Skills equal to those guys they are in. But what about the Cartwright types are done. Teams just want more versatitlty out of the position.

 

[kiki]

Cartwright was the only decent center MJ ever played with.

I think he should stay more with Knicks and would have been a big help for unmature Patrick Ewing

 

[Vcore89]

Cartwright was the only decent center MJ ever played with.

I think he should stay more with Knicks and would have been a big help for unmature Patrick Ewing

MJ would be so furious at Luc that (as a result) even Luc produce at least a 10-point night anchoring from centre.

 

[kiki]

If I recall properly..weren´t there rumours at that time that Jordan ordered his management to get him Sam Bowie? He played two years with Portland and faded away

 

[kiki]

Gasol (Marc) and maybe Bynum would be the last ones that vaguely rassemble the 1970 and 1980 BIG MEN

 

[kiki]

Don´t forget the basics of the future great center is developed at NCAA level

Before, there were coaches that understood and formed great centers:Wooden,Newell,Crumm.Even guys that liked the fast, intense perimeter defense like Knight always valued the importance of a decissive pivot.

Think about the golden era of the NCAA: the early 80´s.

The four classics had a dominant big man, NCal had Perkins ( a forward that played the perfect center moves) and Daugherty ( and two valuable role players like Popson and Wolf)

Cavaliers had Sampson and Georgetown had Ewing, and later on Ellison.

Cougars had Olajuwon.he was surrounded with two great perimeter players like Drexler and the underrated Michael Young and a great power forward (Larry Micheaux)

That Houston team had two all stars and two guys that had an excellent career in the very competitive italian league (Young, a sharp shooter forward) and Micheaux ( a classic power forward, a poor man´s Mailman).Young´s three point throws should have made him a valuable pro player in the NBA, but he was unlucky he was drafted to the Celtics and, with Bird and Maxwell in the rooster, he barely moved his *** from the bench.And Micheaux is the guy that with a couple of inches more, would be a starter in many teams.

Perfect balanced team.That is why they beat Georgetown.

Of course, Jordan,Worthy,Perkins were the all star trio of NCal.

 

[Power Player]

Who? Zach Randolph, Guy in Charlotte, Guy in Detroit, maybe Hibbert every 3rd game . I cant think of many others.

The Mark Eaton Types are gone and I think that was more of the point of the OP. Hibbert can be exploited as we have seen by the hawks in the 1st round. The pace is changed and you have to be able to run the court.

Its easy to say nobody will be like Hakeem, The Admiral, and Ewing. Its obvious a player comes along with Skills equal to those guys they are in. But what about the Cartwright types are done. Teams just want more versatitlty out of the position.

Some of you guys worry me..lol. Zach Randolph is a PF man. I mean, cmon.

Roy Hibbert, who is a classic Center. How was he exploited? He played poorly and they still won the series. If the Center was dead, they should have lost. They have been playing awful basketball due to in fighting for months now.

Basically, the Hawks bet their money on bombing 3s with no one in the middle and it failed against an imploding Indiana team who can't get it together.

So I think what you are saying is the era of the slow big man is over. I agree there. But it does not mean the era of the Center is over. The Center is just now a faster, more athletic player who is ideally close to 7 feet tall or has a reach of 7'3 or more.

Lets look at who remains - The Wizards and Pacers series both involves 4 bigs up front. Both have true C's in Gortat and Hibbert and classic PFs.

The Heat - the modern team built with 3 superstars. An anomaly going against the Brooklyn Nets who also run with a true C, their main one being Brook Lopez who no one has mentioned since he is hurt.

Thunder - they run 2 bigs at all times up front. So does the Clippers, but they are more athletic at the 4 and 5.

Spurs - classic 2 bigs. Tim Duncan, not exactly a speed demon, but he runs the floor and the Spurs are almost always in the conference semis. Duncan is a PF/C but he is more classic if you are judging by speed.

Finally, the Blazers. A little more modern with 2 PFs up front when they use Hickson and classic with Lopez.

For the most part, none of these teams are that fast at 5 and they all are still running classic lineups. the only exception is Miami who can have exceptions when they have LBJ, Wade and Bosh. That trio gives you a lot of flexibility to overall talent trumping everything else.

So the Center is still a key position in the NBA. The game has just gotten faster, and as a result the faster big man is preferred.

 

[Power Player]

To add to this - a quote on the hiring of Stan Van Gundy who took the job because of Andre Drummond ( a Center)

"The traditional recipe for championship contenders sticks to the 2-in/3-out formula that represents just about every winner in recent NBA history. The "2-in" usually includes a defensive specialist and a scorer, from Gasol to Bynum, Garnett to Perkins, Wallace to Wallace. Every once in a while, you get that one special player who can do both -- guys like Shaq and Duncan. Around these guys, however, their frontcourt counterparts were largely traditional. Is there any good reason to try the 1-in/4-out in Detroit, given the outcome in Orlando and the traditional recipe for frontcourt success? "

 

[Ronaldo]

To add to this - a quote on the hiring of Stan Van Gundy who took the job because of Andre Drummond ( a Center)

"The traditional recipe for championship contenders sticks to the 2-in/3-out formula that represents just about every winner in recent NBA history. The "2-in" usually includes a defensive specialist and a scorer, from Gasol to Bynum, Garnett to Perkins, Wallace to Wallace. Every once in a while, you get that one special player who can do both -- guys like Shaq and Duncan. Around these guys, however, their frontcourt counterparts were largely traditional. Is there any good reason to try the 1-in/4-out in Detroit, given the outcome in Orlando and the traditional recipe for frontcourt success? "

No holla for Greg Monroe?

 

[Power Player]

Monroe is probably going to be traded since he and Drummond are redundant. But I love how SVG utilizes the talent he is dealt. I am real interested in if he decides to move Monroe and slide Smith down to PF as anticipated, or if he surprises everyone and starts all 3 together.

Monroe is a true C who played PF this year and saw a slight dip in his numbers. He needs to be a 5 to be most effective.