Chair ump possibly changed the trajectory of the final with a bad line call.

Alcaraz just double faulted to make the score 2-2 in the final set. His second serve was called out. The chair ump overruled, but Hawkeye did indeed show it out. I can’t wait for electronic line calling to eliminate this BS.
Electronic line-calling is not accurate enough on clay.
Its accurate on hardcourt, but not on clay, so I'm glad we aren't using it.
 

Galvermegs

Rookie
Umpire cheated to stop the break back in the 5th. Criminal, and I hope Zverev didn’t shake his hand and calls him out post match.
Criminal....ok. we all know how close zverev was to going to court before money spoke... which is what you imply about the umpire
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
3 things.

1. Hawkeye should be in place. Blaming the umpire is unfair, especially when it is literally as close as it can possibly be, which that is.
2. Hawkeye has a margin of error, it's not much, but if ever there was a call that might fall within it, that is it.
3. Even after this error, the score was 15-40. FIFTEEN. FORTY. HE HAD TWO BREAK POINTS. THIS WASN'T MATCH POINT. THIS WASN'T FOR A DECISIVE BREAK. THIS WAS TO BREAK BACK. AND HE HAD TWO BREAK POINTS. TWO. BREAK. POINTS.

8dea54e2-60e4-40cc-9137-50c262462c90_text.gif
 

PaddyDutch

Semi-Pro
1717954304-1717954274964.jpg


That's basically as close as it gets. Remember, if it's 99.9999% out, then it's in. Only 100% out is out.
Hawkeye doesn’t mean jack. Umpire checked the mark and ruled on that. If there was reason to overturn it was based on the mark. If the mark was not definitive, call stands.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GAS

GAS

Hall of Fame
The idiots here think umpire goes out to check the mark, sees the mark touching the line and comes back with "too close to call, guys!" :-D
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
And the first words out of Zedrot's mouth in his presser is to whine about the bad line call, acting as if that would make a difference. Oh man, you can't make this stuff up.

 

a10best

Legend
Did that 1 call change the 5th set outcome and Z's strategy? Hardly.

C'mon man. It's not like Zev was going to start serving aces and 125mph 2nd serves in the 5th set final and easily break serve. he had break points down 3-2. and didn't convert & then he lost his serve.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
And the first words out of Zedrot's mouth in his presser is to whine about the bad line call, acting as if that would make a difference. Oh man, you can't make this stuff up.

Dude, shut the * up. That match had constant momentum swings. The umpire stole all of zverev’s chances in the with that call.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
According to the umpire, it didn't. Haven't seen a picture of the mark in question yet, but he inspected it up close, so I have no reason to doubt him.

(1) Linesman called it OUT.
(2) Machine called it OUT.
(3) Clay mark shows OUT. At best, the clay mark is inconclusive.

Chair ump should overrule when there is conclusive evidence. Clearly this ump had an anti Z agenda
Wonder if today's chair ump would have been brazen enough to overrule the machine if RG was employing Hawkeye?

Hopefully next year at RG, the machine will have final say and there will not even be an opportunity for chair umpire to engage in Clay Mark Theatre.

media-Fw-Lre67-Xg-AMrkz2.jpg
 
Last edited:
Some of you guys are delusional.

First of all Alcaraz broke Zverev twice into he 5th set so even with the break Alcaraz wins.

Secondly Alcaraz won the last two sets 12 games to 3!!! He simply was the better player and deserved to win. He broke the so called invincible servebot 3 times in the 4th alone.

The winners were massively in Alcaraz's favor.

Sensing a lot of salty Sinner fans in this thread.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
(1) Linesman called it OUT.
(2) Machine called it OUT.
(3) Clay mark shows OUT. At best, the clay mark is inconclusive.

Chair ump should overrule when there is conclusive evidence.
Wonder if today's chair ump would have been stupid enough to overrule if he had seen the Hawkeye pic?

media-Fw-Lre67-Xg-AMrkz2.jpg
Are you obtuse? That’s a picture of the spot from a different match that Hawkeye is estimating to be in. The poster posted it to show that Hawkeye has a margin for error and the score of that match is in the picture with the names of the players.
 

Rafa24

Hall of Fame
Hawkeye is far from perfect itself, no way to know the correct call 100%
hawkeye isn't 100% but chainz saw it obviously out and hawkeye had it 2 mm out. if it was 1mm and no argument from chainz i'd give the ump benefit of the doubt.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
I am looking the hawkeye now. They did not show in tv that time but i felt it was clear out.
How was it clear? It was as close as it could possibly be. The hawkeye had it 2 millimetres out. If you look at the ball mark on the court, it could easily be seen as catching a tiny bit of the line.
 

randomtoss

Semi-Pro
What I see in this video is Zverev trying to make the umpire change his ruling by pushing his hand away, and then pulling him by the arm. Not violently, but it's still not a good thing IMO.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
hawkeye isn't 100% but chainz saw it obviously out and hawkeye had it 2 mm out. if it was 1mm and no argument from chainz i'd give the ump benefit of the doubt.
(1) Linesman called it OUT.
(2) Machine called it OUT.
(3) Z saw it OUT

Why are we not seeing the clay mark from today's match? Why is this pic being withheld?
 

bhpower

Semi-Pro
It looked wide to me too and I had not seen the screenshot.
Definitely it influenced the result.
I hope Hawkeye will incorporated in FO since next year.
 

Rafa24

Hall of Fame
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but since they don’t use Hawkeye for line calls yet, that means in the end it comes down to the chair umpire right? And given that Hawkeye has 1-2 mm or so that menas it might as well have caught the line right? Just trying to get a clear picture here.
it was 2mm out according to hawkeye, according to the line judge, according to chainz.
 

jeroenn

Semi-Pro
(1) Linesman called it OUT.
(2) Machine called it OUT.
(3) Z saw it OUT

Why are we not seeing the clay mark from today's match? Why is this pic being withheld?
Umpire saw it in and that was the call made.

And it's not being shown just to **** you off. Stew in it. Match is over. Call is done. Wouldn't have made a difference anyway. Deal with it. Go punch a wall or grab your teddy bear. The whaaaaaambulance is busy with other patients for now.
 

Alcawrath

Semi-Pro
Dude, shut the * up. That match had constant momentum swings. The umpire stole all of zverev’s chances in the with that call.
One call was probably bad. That's it. The ump was correct on every other call and maybe the one that you're upset over. The fact that Zverev lets close calls bother him ensured that he lost today and probably most of his big matches because it's a sign of mental weakness.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
One call was probably bad. That's it. The ump was correct on every other call and maybe the one that you're upset over. The fact that Zverev lets close calls bother him ensured that he lost today and probably most of his big matches because it's a sign of mental weakness.
You can’t excuse it. Break back in 5th is huge. Same thing happened Djokovic vs Wawrinka 4R AO. If it happens in set 1 or 2 it’s not as big a deal.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
Umpire saw it in and that was the call made.

And it's not being shown just to **** you off. Stew in it. Match is over. Call is done. Wouldn't have made a difference anyway. Deal with it. Go punch a wall or grab your teddy bear. The whaaaaaambulance is busy with other patients for now.

I'm more of a Raz supporter so you got that all wrong.
It would be nice to see a pic of the clay mark. Very odd that the clay mark pic is not being released.
But lemmings like you would never complain about such things.
 

Alcawrath

Semi-Pro
You can’t excuse it. Break back in 5th is huge. Same thing happened Djokovic vs Wawrinka 4R AO. If it happens in set 1 or 2 it’s not as big a deal.
Excuse what? One point makes or breaks a best of 5? That's laughable. Check the stat line, Carlos was better all day.
 

Alcawrath

Semi-Pro
You can’t excuse the umpire robbed Zverev of a huge chance in that 5th set, end of story. This match will remain controversial.
Only to you. The match is not controversial. He lost 1-6, 2-6 in the last two sets. If this happens in a fifth set tiebreaker I could at least understand your point. It didn't, he got smoked the last two sets. Arguing about one single point is ridiculous
 
It’s also inaccurate on hardcourt. There’s just no mark to prove it ;)
It's not completely accurate since it only accurately predicts the path a tennis ball SHOULD take due to its flight physics, but this part isn't true.

Depending on the court, a hard hit tennis ball clearly leaves a fuzz mark on a tournament hardcourt. Depends on how gritty it is and how much sand the painters prepared beforehand into the court paint. Pros and officials know this too

Don't think it would've made a difference ultimately in this match though, like people said Zverev had much more simpler things he could have focused on rather than that ball call to win.

But Hawkeye isn't perfect, I wonder if in the future maybe players should get one chance to appeal to another match referee or to Hawkeye to overrule the umpire's call, like the challenge system, but only one wrong call allowed. Would that be a good system?
 

JasonZ

Hall of Fame
Only to you. The match is not controversial. He lost 1-6, 2-6 in the last two sets. If this happens in a fifth set tiebreaker I could at least understand your point. It didn't, he got smoked the last two sets. Arguing about one single point is ridiculous
no, not only to him, but to me also and many others. this was the biggest robbery i remember in a slam final since introduction of hawk eye, which unfortunately wasnt used today. it would be 2-2 and equal chances for both. the ref killed that match.
 

Alcawrath

Semi-Pro
no, not only to him, but to me also and many others. this was the biggest robbery i remember in a slam final since introduction of hawk eye, which unfortunately wasnt used today. it would be 2-2 and equal chances for both. the ref killed that match.
One-single-point-within-Hawkeye's-margin-of-error :-D :-D
 

Alcawrath

Semi-Pro
"one single point" yeah single points can be huge in tennis. people who save match points. If they lose those is it just one single point?
Your tag is Rafa right? You know that Rafa famously treats every point independently right? That's why he wins. He doesn't let one point make or break him.

Also, there were 292 points played today and some of you are claiming the match was drastically altered by one point in the middle of it. The only point that ended the match was the last one. Point number 292
 

jeroenn

Semi-Pro
2-2 back on serve is huge compared to 3-1

This was breakpoint down. Does Zverev need to rely on Carloz' DF's in order to win? Or does he have the mindset to put a supposed miscall behind him, and try to find another break point?
 

a10best

Legend
hawkeye isn't 100% but chainz saw it obviously out and hawkeye had it 2 mm out. if it was 1mm and no argument from chainz i'd give the ump benefit of the doubt.
chainz sees a lot of balls out that are in from the matches I've watched him in. He's constantly wrong on marks.
How many times have we seen chainz draw a line around the spot with his racket only to have the umpire say no it is in?

Objectively, it was definitely not a momentum swing as it was more Zev's own undoing constantly getting broke in the 4th and 5th sets. Carlos gifted him the 3rd set so he should have serve-botted his way to victory in the 4th. Don't give recent champs belief who have a 9-1 or 10-1 5th set record.
 

Meles

Bionic Poster
Alcaraz just double faulted to make the score 2-2 in the final set. His second serve was called out. The chair ump overruled, but Hawkeye did indeed show it out. I can’t wait for electronic line calling to eliminate this BS.
GPpZQEsaYAAVk8b.jpg:large

Hawkeye margin of errorr is 3mm either way on hard courts; it is worse on clay.:oops: The umpire made the right call and Zverev probably playing it up because it was so close and to ice Carlos on serve. They used hawkeye for the challenges in Madrid and it was horribly off based on player reactions. On clay what you're asking for would be a fiasco. Players will start using challenges to play the lottery in matches.
 
Top