Chang vs. Hewitt

World Beater

Hall of Fame
hewitt is by far the superior player and athlete.

respect to chang, but hewitt is a different league though there are similarities in their skills.
 

ximian

Rookie
I think Chang would be a clear favorite. Hewitt covered a lot of court, but nobody covered more than Chang.
 
Serve- Hewitt
Return- Hewitt
Forehand- Chang
Backhand- Hewitt
Volleys- not sure
Movement- Chang
Mental toughness- Chang
 

Phil

Hall of Fame
Serve- Hewitt
Return- Hewitt
Forehand- Chang
Backhand- Hewitt
Volleys- not sure
Movement- Chang
Mental toughness- Chang
Hewitt gets the nod for volleys, by a long shot. Chang simply didn't volley while Hewitt has, over the years, become a pretty capable player at the net. No Pete Sampras, but not at all bad for a baseline retriever type of player.

Mental toughness? Hard to say on that one. Very even.
 

alfa164164

Professional
On a fast or faster type court, Hewitt would have the edge IMO because he hits a flatter, more penetrating shot. On a slow or clay court, you would have to dig your heels in and prepare for a 5 hour match. Similar speed, style, and mentality, but for me, Hewitt gets the edge overall because he can drive the ball a bit better (although I certainly don't consider him a power player) and he is a better volleyer than Chang. Chang's moonballs and slow balls could cause problems for Hewitt on clay as Hewitt can have trouble generating his own pace, he likes using the power from his opponents.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Hewitt is a better player. He won more slams, more threat at the slam events throughout his career, won Master Cup, and held 80 weeks at #1(chang zero). This isn't even worth a debate.
 

crash1929

Hall of Fame
Well I'm not interested in who would win in a match against each other or even who is the better player (more slams etc).


I was simply wondering who covered the court better and who was quicker/faster. Like who could chase down more balls.
 

OHBH

Semi-Pro
Chang
is definately faster. Chang would beat Hewitt with his greater speed and he would not give Hewitt any pace.
 
hewitt is by far the superior player and athlete.
.

Actually Chang was by far the superior athlete. Even the other ATP players vote him among the top 5 athletes on tour on more than one occasion. When he was tested at the olympic training center on measures like jumping ability, speed, strength, flexibility, coordination etc he comprehensively scored above average even for world class athletes. (one tester noted he had everything they look for in a top athlete accept height!)

I dont' believe there is a contest in athleticism, even though Hewitt is no slouch in any of these areas.

In terms of a flat-out run, hard to say. Hewitt is slightly bigger and probably has a bigger stride, combined with his lightning speed. Chang has probably even slightly quicker feet, but a shorter stride. Add in Hewitt's tiny edge in reach, and it's probably a wash, in terms of a 1 way run. On the other hand, Chang's slight edge in foot speed, slightly smaller stride length, and slightly better athleticism, probably make him even more agile, quicker to change direction, slightly quick at exploding and better able to improvise.

So overall: Chang
 
Hewitt is a better player. He won more slams, more threat at the slam events throughout his career, won Master Cup, and held 80 weeks at #1(chang zero). This isn't even worth a debate.

"more threat at the slam events throughout his career." HUH?

All credit to Hewitt, he was a fighter and other than terrible behavior, doesn't have to have any regrets....but if Chang had peaked in the little valley between Sampras and Federer, he might have taken home a few GRAND SLAMS! LOL. At the very least, he'd probably have 4-5 GS titles, even with only a few years as a window....remember the guy never showed up anywhere ever without 100% focus and determination.
 
Nope. Read my lips. In a few year span, Chang at his peak, with no peak Federer, Sampas, around...plus the rest of his career .....he'd absolutely have gotten 4.

Even in that window he would never win Wimbledon, and at the French Open you had Kuerten, Ferrero, even Corretja who were clearly superior to him. So that leaves only the hard court slams. Well in that window on hard courts you had Rafter who beat Chang at his peak in the 97 U.S Open semis, Agassi played some of the best tennis of his career in that interim you refer to (not as good as late 94-95 but as good or better as any other time in his career), even aging Sampras proved very tough from 2000-2002 when it came to the U.S Open as long as he wasnt gassed out like the 01 final, and Safin was a major force on hard courts around then and almost certainly too good for Chang on his good days, Kafelnikov who has a 4-0 record vs Chang including wins in both 94 and 97 was a real contender on hard courts too then, and Hewitt himself if you are counting him. No he would not have won 4-5 slams. Maybe 1 or 2.
 

Wuornos

Professional
You all now the ratings I calculate and what factors are taken into account.

I would have to go for Hewitt

Lleyton Hewitt 2686 Peak of statistical evidence post Wimbledon 2005

Michael Chang 2666 Peak of statistical evidence post US Open 1996

Tim
 
Even in that window he would never win Wimbledon, and at the French Open you had Kuerten, Ferrero, even Corretja who were clearly superior to him. So that leaves only the hard court slams. Well in that window on hard courts you had Rafter who beat Chang at his peak in the 97 U.S Open semis, Agassi played some of the best tennis of his career in that interim you refer to (not as good as late 94-95 but as good or better as any other time in his career), even aging Sampras proved very tough from 2000-2002 when it came to the U.S Open as long as he wasnt gassed out like the 01 final, and Safin was a major force on hard courts around then and almost certainly too good for Chang on his good days, Kafelnikov who has a 4-0 record vs Chang including wins in both 94 and 97 was a real contender on hard courts too then, and Hewitt himself if you are counting him. No he would not have won 4-5 slams. Maybe 1 or 2.

Come on. Safin "almost certainly too good fof Chang on his good days"...LOL...the same applies to Hewitt, and maybe even Federer, those "good" days come every 5 years. Hewitt finished 7-7 with Safin and they NEVER Played during those key years years at a slam. Chang actually beat Safin once, and went 3 sets in his other 2 meetings with Safin even THOUGH THEY all came in 99 OR LATER!

Chang was SEVEN AND FOUR with rafter, and no, Chang was not at peak when they met the USO, in fact, that was the first sign of the crumbling, despite that he avenged his loss at Davis cup a few weeks later.

In any case, this anecdotal match stuff has to stop, even though, it is the stock and trade of this place. Silly and meaningless, when it comes to intergeneration comparisons.

Yes, Sampras played well at those USO's....EXCEPT as you point out in the finals where he was clearly running off fumes. I doubt the slowed down 2000 Sampras would stand a chance against Chang (who played him tough at peak anyways), when he was playing like a low-energy anemic zombie!

In any case, I am not saying it wouldn't be tough, or that Chang, like Hewitt, would need every bit of his guts, instinct, savvy and strategic versatility(much much greater than Hewitt), to pull those out, only that he would. Like Hewitt, he just feel a half step short of the greatest when they were at peak.

PS. Oh except when you say Corretja clearly better than Chang! WOW! LAME! LOL! Even Kuerten would have had his hands full with Chang at peak (though Kuerten was better at his best on clay). Chang had plenty of good wins, at the FO, incuding people like Bruguera, who was as, as good a clay courter as has been seen. (the only guy I ever saw hit a clay ball reguarly as heavy/hard as Nadal)
 
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EKnee08

Professional
"more threat at the slam events throughout his career." HUH?

All credit to Hewitt, he was a fighter and other than terrible behavior, doesn't have to have any regrets....but if Chang had peaked in the little valley between Sampras and Federer, he might have taken home a few GRAND SLAMS! LOL. At the very least, he'd probably have 4-5 GS titles, even with only a few years as a window....remember the guy never showed up anywhere ever without 100% focus and determination.

Arguements can go both ways-absolutely true that throughout Chang's career he had to deal with all the same guys as Sampras plus Sampras. His best year, 1996 he had the misfortune to meet Pete in the final.
I loved Chang. and never liked Hewitt. However, I believe Hewitt was a better all around player. Footspeed, though I would definitely give it to Chang!
Pete's book might be very interesting because in it he evaluated both as rivals.
 

World Beater

Hall of Fame
Actually Chang was by far the superior athlete. Even the other ATP players vote him among the top 5 athletes on tour on more than one occasion. When he was tested at the olympic training center on measures like jumping ability, speed, strength, flexibility, coordination etc he comprehensively scored above average even for world class athletes. (one tester noted he had everything they look for in a top athlete accept height!)

I dont' believe there is a contest in athleticism, even though Hewitt is no slouch in any of these areas.

In terms of a flat-out run, hard to say. Hewitt is slightly bigger and probably has a bigger stride, combined with his lightning speed. Chang has probably even slightly quicker feet, but a shorter stride. Add in Hewitt's tiny edge in reach, and it's probably a wash, in terms of a 1 way run. On the other hand, Chang's slight edge in foot speed, slightly smaller stride length, and slightly better athleticism, probably make him even more agile, quicker to change direction, slightly quick at exploding and better able to improvise.

So overall: Chang

i didn't say chang was a bad athlete (i agree that he is a very good one). but unless you have some evidence comparing hewitt and chang - all the stuff you brought up about this test or that test is irrelevant.

Also, one has to clarify what "better athlete" means. some tennis players use their physical attributes on the tennis court better than others - and i believe hewitt's attributes are better suited to tennis. You are entitled to your opinion of course.

I saw them both and I am much more impressed with hewitt than chang.
 

Chadwixx

Banned
Chang didnt hit the ball as hard as hewitt so it gives him more time to get in postion.

Id take hewitt. He is a stronger version of chang.

Hewitt also seems more fit.
 
Arguements can go both ways-absolutely true that throughout Chang's career he had to deal with all the same guys as Sampras plus Sampras. His best year, 1996 he had the misfortune to meet Pete in the final.
I loved Chang. and never liked Hewitt. However, I believe Hewitt was a better all around player. Footspeed, though I would definitely give it to Chang!
Pete's book might be very interesting because in it he evaluated both as rivals.

Quite true. These are only subjective opinions. There is nothing remotely close to an objective quantitative measure.
 
i didn't say chang was a bad athlete (i agree that he is a very good one). but unless you have some evidence comparing hewitt and chang - all the stuff you brought up about this test or that test is irrelevant.
.

True, what you said was:
"hewitt is by far the superior player and athlete."

So, if you think Chang is very good, then I'm not sure how out-of-this world you think Hewitt was. In fact, I'd say, there really ISN'T an athlete out there who was by far superior to Chang. The test and the vote by the players is not irrelevant, I mention it only to show that many shared my opinion. Chang's peers/opponents felt he was among the very best athletes on tour, I doubt very much any of them would call Hewitt "far" superior.

Now you ask for "evidence". What would constitute "evidence" showing Chang or Hewitt as superior athletes? The notion seems rather absurd to me. If Hewitt had undergone the same extensive testing, we could compare their numbers, but I am not aware of him doing that. Nor do I have Chang's actual numbers though it MIGHT be possible for me to get them but I wouldnt' count on it.
 

35ft6

Legend
When Hewitt was at the top, he was often compared to Chang, but he was described as a better version. Chang may have been faster running in a straight line, but in every other category, I would probably give the edge to Hewitt. In terms of footwork, I like Hewitt's better. Chang was more of a classic counter puncher compared to Hewitt, who could also be considered a counter puncher, but he was much more aggressive than Chang and his footwork reflected that. When he was at his best, I thought because of his superior footwork, Hewitt was hitting just as hard as his bigger opponents if you average out the speed of all the shots in a rally. Meaning the bigger guys could hit at speeds Hewitt couldn't, but Hewitt was always in great position hitting a very solid ball. He would actually physically impose his game on other top 10 players, whereas bigger hitters imposed their game on Chang until the last shot in the rally. Chang got that one extra ball back, and eventually that might cause a bigger hitter to go for too much. Not saying there's anything wrong with that either, Chang got the most out of his abilities. He was constantly trying to find ways to put more fire power into his game but there were times, even at his best, when he could simply be hit off the court by a bigger player. Never saw this happen with prime Hewitt. He might have had to hit 5 or 6 balls to do it as opposed to 4 or 5 from Agassi or 2 or 3 from prime form Pete Sampras, but Hewitt could impose his game on people, run them ragged, and suffocate them. Always thought Chang relied way more on mentally beating his opponents. He didn't really have the power to physically beat a game opponent into submission.
 
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abmk

Bionic Poster
Nope. Read my lips. In a few year span, Chang at his peak, with no peak Federer, Sampas, around...plus the rest of his career .....he'd absolutely have gotten 4.

If he gets the same span that hewitt got, not a chance ... An year or year and half more, possible ...
 
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AAAA

Hall of Fame
Always thought Chang relied way more on mentally beating his opponents. He didn't really have the power to physically beat a game opponent into submission.

Chang himself alluded to that point as well. He was originally 5-0 against Sampras then in the remaining 15 matches they played Chang was 3-12. When asked to comment on the turn around in their h2h Chang said something like

I used to be able to get into his head, now he's a monster
 
When Hewitt was at the top, he was often compared to Chang, but he was described as a better version. Chang may have been faster running in a straight line, but in every other category, I would probably give the edge to Hewitt. In terms of footwork, I like Hewitt's better. Chang was more of a classic counter puncher compared to Hewitt, who could also be considered a counter puncher, but he was much more aggressive than Chang and his footwork reflected that. When he was at his best, I thought because of his superior footwork, Hewitt was hitting just as hard as his bigger opponents if you average out the speed of all the shots in a rally. Meaning the bigger guys could hit at speeds Hewitt couldn't, but Hewitt was always in great position hitting a very solid ball. He would actually physically impose his game on other top 10 players, whereas bigger hitters .

I think this is a SEVERE oversimplification based on stereotypes. Chang played this way at 15 (well enough to beat pros), but he diversified IMMENSELY. (people either forget this or simply never noticed.) He added the ability to take the ball on the rise, the ability to hit harder, the ability to hit aggressive approaches and volley well. The ability to go for bigger serves. And he was the pro most willing to completely alter his strategy and stick with it.

One of the REASONS Agassi hated Chang so much, was that he felt Chang copied his game shortly after going pro. Both Chang and Hewitt had the ability to, and tried to, (when it was to their advantage) be aggresive and hit big from the baseline.
 
Chang himself alluded to that point as well. He was originally 5-0 against Sampras then in the remaining 15 matches they played Chang was 3-12. When asked to comment on the turn around in their h2h Chang said something like

I used to be able to get into his head, now he's a monster

OH BROTHER. Chang also spoke, as did other peers (including Agassi who hated Chang), a few of his coaches, and other experts, about how much he had added to his game including the ability to be aggresive at the net, on serve and off the ground. To take this quote on SAMPRAS and their head-to-head as a commentary on his game as a whole....UGH.

One can certainly opine that they feel Hewitt's game superior, but to rely on such a ridiculous stereotype.....Oh and incidently, SAMPRAS did NOT feel the same way about Chang's game.
 

AAAA

Hall of Fame
OH BROTHER. Chang also spoke, as did other peers (including Agassi who hated Chang), a few of his coaches, and other experts, about how much he had added to his game including the ability to be aggresive at the net, on serve and off the ground. To take this quote on SAMPRAS and their head-to-head as a commentary on his game as a whole....UGH.

One can certainly opine that they feel Hewitt's game superior, but to rely on such a ridiculous stereotype.....Oh and incidently, SAMPRAS did NOT feel the same way about Chang's game.

Quite a few tangential points there. What I think 35tf6 meant and what I believe Chang meant by his comment re Sampras was that he could mentally unsettle his opponents by continuously returning their shots AND make them know it but he felt after a while Sampras mentally overcame it.
 
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35ft6

Legend
I think this is a SEVERE oversimplification based on stereotypes. Chang played this way at 15 (well enough to beat pros), but he diversified IMMENSELY. (people either forget this or simply never noticed.) He added the ability to take the ball on the rise, the ability to hit harder, the ability to hit aggressive approaches and volley well. The ability to go for bigger serves. And he was the pro most willing to completely alter his strategy and stick with it.
Yes, Chang did improve over the years, but on a hot day, the top players could still just simply hit him off the court. Chang changed the way he played to be more like Hewitt (no, I'm not suggesting he had Hewitt in mind, I'm speaking he incidentally did), more aggressive, more opportunistic, but he never did it quite as well as prime Hewitt. And he did it very well, but he wasn't naturally like that, it was, and this is to Chang's credit, a deliberate and mechanical compared to Hewitt, who was naturally more aggressive.

"Based on stereotypes." Dude, give me a break. It's my opinion based on what I saw. I never expected Chang to win the really big matches. Yeah, he pulled off a French and I give him props for that. But after that, in matches that really mattered, the ones that could win him another Slam or propel him to number 1, I always expected him to lose. The top guys just had too much firepower. I didn't feel that way with Hewitt. When he was on top, I expected him to win. Even when he was down, I thought he could fight back. Chang had that fight and desire, nobody can question his dedication and heart, but he just didn't have the physical abilities of Hewitt.
 
It seems logical to compare these two since they have some similar attributes (small stature, speed), but their games really aren't completely similar. Hewitt took the ball much earlier and tried to beat his opponents by taking their time away and changing the direction on the ball. With his speed he could chase down balls if he fell behind in a rally, but he actually didn't rely on retrieving balls all day to win points. Chang really played a retrieving type of game, using his speed to get balls back until his opponents missed, more like a faster version of Ferrer than Hewitt.
 
Nope. Read my lips. In a few year span, Chang at his peak, with no peak Federer, Sampas, around...plus the rest of his career .....he'd absolutely have gotten 4.

With all due respect, I don't see that at all. Chang just didn't have the weapons. If you list all of the slam winners outside of RG for the entire decade (the 2000s that is) I don't think a single one of them had as little firepower as Chang. Hewitt is probably the closest but he still had more power and some attributes (taking the ball early, superior return of serve) that Chang did not have which allowed him to win his slams. So RG is really his only chance and I don't think he would win 4 of those, since that would basically put him somewhere between Kuerten and Nadal/Borg in terms of clay court dominance and I don't think anyone would consider Chang to be that good on clay.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Yes, Chang did improve over the years, but on a hot day, the top players could still just simply hit him off the court. Chang changed the way he played to be more like Hewitt (no, I'm not suggesting he had Hewitt in mind, I'm speaking he incidentally did), more aggressive, more opportunistic, but he never did it quite as well as prime Hewitt. And he did it very well, but he wasn't naturally like that, it was, and this is to Chang's credit, a deliberate and mechanical compared to Hewitt, who was naturally more aggressive.

"Based on stereotypes." Dude, give me a break. It's my opinion based on what I saw. I never expected Chang to win the really big matches. Yeah, he pulled off a French and I give him props for that. But after that, in matches that really mattered, the ones that could win him another Slam or propel him to number 1, I always expected him to lose. The top guys just had too much firepower. I didn't feel that way with Hewitt. When he was on top, I expected him to win. Even when he was down, I thought he could fight back. Chang had that fight and desire, nobody can question his dedication and heart, but he just didn't have the physical abilities of Hewitt.

I'd agree with this. Chang was just clearly more prone to being blown off court than hewitt
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
"more threat at the slam events throughout his career." HUH?

All credit to Hewitt, he was a fighter and other than terrible behavior, doesn't have to have any regrets....but if Chang had peaked in the little valley between Sampras and Federer, he might have taken home a few GRAND SLAMS! LOL. At the very least, he'd probably have 4-5 GS titles, even with only a few years as a window....remember the guy never showed up anywhere ever without 100% focus and determination.

Clown!

You're trying saying Sampras was the sole reason he took 4-5 GS away from Chang. Forget about peak Chang in 1995-96, but in the entire 90s decade, he won zero slam; made 3 finals, and all three finals he got butchered. So there isn't any strong case for him to win slams during post-Sampras when you have Kuerten, Hewitt, and Safin around. Prime Chang met Pete only 2 times at slam. If Pete wasn't around, I can see him winning 1996 USO, but not 1995 AO b/c Andre was better. So whether it was prime Pete or not, Chang simply wasn't good enough and not much of a threat at slam the way you put it. That's the entire decade right there, and for him to reach 4-5 GS finals in such short period(post-Sampras and pre-Fed) is a far fetched, let alone winning them all. It's ludicrous.
 

World Beater

Hall of Fame
It seems logical to compare these two since they have some similar attributes (small stature, speed), but their games really aren't completely similar. Hewitt took the ball much earlier and tried to beat his opponents by taking their time away and changing the direction on the ball. With his speed he could chase down balls if he fell behind in a rally, but he actually didn't rely on retrieving balls all day to win points. Chang really played a retrieving type of game, using his speed to get balls back until his opponents missed, more like a faster version of Ferrer than Hewitt.

you sir, deserve a cookie.

good post.
 
Yes, Chang did improve over the years, but on a hot day, the top players could still just simply hit him off the court. Chang changed the way he played to be more like Hewitt (no, I'm not suggesting he had Hewitt in mind, I'm speaking he incidentally did), more aggressive, more opportunistic, but he never did it quite as well as prime Hewitt. And he did it very well, but he wasn't naturally like that, it was, and this is to Chang's credit, a deliberate and mechanical compared to Hewitt, who was naturally more aggressive.
.

Here, is where we disagree. I feel Chang had comparable firepower as Hewitt, more than one expert, Burwash for example, felt that he hit the ball withing about 5-10% of Agassi and Courier's pace. (Sampras categorized him as an aggressive baseliner of the same mold as those 2...), and he was MUCH more strategically versatile than Hewitt. I also feel Chang played on the rise more than Hewitt, though both could be foreced back by more powerful opponents. Hewitt had a lot less firepower than people seem to be giving him credit for, he may have flattened the forehand a bit better than Chang, but other than his dramatic, big swings, he simply didn't generate all that much swing speed and may have overproduced some of his spins, though really, off the baseline, they were BOTH copies of AGASSI. In any case, we obviously must agree to disagree, but I think a lot of people here are remembering generalizations about Chang, not the actual player.
 

35ft6

Legend
Here, is where we disagree. I feel Chang had comparable firepower as Hewitt, more than one expert, Burwash for example, felt that he hit the ball withing about 5-10% of Agassi and Courier's pace.
5 to 10% is a huge difference in tennis.
(Sampras categorized him as an aggressive baseliner of the same mold as those 2...), and he was MUCH more strategically versatile than Hewitt.
I agree with this. But I think he HAD to be. Hewitt's A game was enough to beat anybody when he was at his prime. Chang didn't reach the 3rd round of the last 12 slams he played. Lost in the first round 6 of those times. As he lost a step, all that strategic versatility didn't really amount to much. He just couldn't physically impose his game.
I also feel Chang played on the rise more than Hewitt, though both could be foreced back by more powerful opponents.
I think the opposite. And Hewitt has a better return.
Hewitt had a lot less firepower than people seem to be giving him credit for,
Most people are simply saying he had more firepower than Chang.
In any case, we obviously must agree to disagree, but I think a lot of people here are remembering generalizations about Chang, not the actual player.
In terms of what they accomplished, it's not even close. Are you actually saying that Chang is better than Hewitt? Or do you simply feel he's not being given enough credit?
 
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Don't both players play a similar game? Hewitt was more successful but i think chang beat some great players in there primes unlike hewitt who was lucky to be in a weak year.
 

35ft6

Legend
Interview with Chang:
Tennis Week: Many people compared Lleyton Hewitt to you in terms of the style, speed and spirit you share. Do you see any similarities and are you friendly with Hewitt?

Michael Chang: I actually get along pretty well with Lleyton. I can't say we sit down and talk a whole lot, but we're pretty cordial and pretty friendly to each other. We've practiced on a few occasions.In certain aspects I think we are similar. I would say Lleyton is probably a little bit more more emotional than I am. He will tend to show his excitement, yes, but he will also show his frustration a little bit more so than I would. But like you said, he is a great competitor, he has a great heart and he loves to play and that's one of the reasons why he is where he is today. I think looking at his game, he has a few more tools than I had when I was his age. He's got a better serve and better volleys than I had at that age. Movement, I would say, is comparable and groundstrokes are comparable. It's nice to see someone of his size and stature be able to excel in today's tennis.
And Hewitt on Chang:
"Obviously when I was younger, I looked up to Michael (Chang) because I wasn't the biggest guy around. I sort of looked at how I was just going to be able to dominate the big servers and big hitters. You look at guys like Michael and Andre Agassi, see how that sort of counter-puncher player, especially Michael, further back of the court, can dominate guys with the passing shots. Obviously, I think the biggest weapon is the return of serve. I've drawn strength from Michael winning, obviously, the French, but probably more so Andre winning with his style of game on all surfaces at the four Grand Slams. For me, that's a big thing, knowing that a guy like that can do that, beat such big servers, especially on a court like grass at Wimbledon."
 

35ft6

Legend
Don't both players play a similar game? Hewitt was more successful but i think chang beat some great players in there primes unlike hewitt who was lucky to be in a weak year.
Yeah, in matches that mattered who are these great players Chang beat? And have you actually looked at Hewitt's record?
 
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