Changing grips for different height balls?

[Ehh]

A lot of people say that you should pick one grip for topspin forehand and one grip for topspin backhand, and just stick with it. After all, it takes billions of repetitions with a certain grip to become vaguely proficient at it, and if you move your grip over by even a half bevel - guess what - you're back at square one, and you have to re-do those billions of repetitions to get back to where you were before with your old grip.

This is why we didn't see Tim Henman use a western forehand at the French Open, then revert back to his eastern forehand at Wimbledon - he picked one grip and stuck to it through its advantages and disadvantages, just as one should do.

Recently, however, I am having troubles with my backhand grip. I use a semi-western grip and a 1hbh. My strike zone is between shoulder height to above head height, so I love it when people topspin moonball my backhand (which many do, since they automatically assume that a 1hbh must be weak to high balls), but low slices are giving me trouble.

My philosophy is to never hit a backhand slice ever - no matter how far wide I'm pulled or how low the ball is, I will attempt to loop or drive it back with topspin regardless of how difficult or uncomfortable it is. This is the best way to get better - by forcing yourself to hit shots you find uncomfortable.

On really low balls, however, this means that I'm crouching down so low that my knees are scraping on the ground. The temptation is to switch to a conservative eastern backhand grip and smack these low balls, and I have hit decent winners this way - but I feel that is 'cheating' as my backhand topspin grip is semi-western. Hitting an eastern backhand will not be helping to develop my backhand in the long run as it will confuse my muscle memory, isn't that right?

So is it better to just accept that low balls will be a problem with my semi-western backhand grip rather than try to do something about it by changing backhand topspin grips for low balls?

(Beveldevil will probably tell me that my 1hbh grip is too extreme and no current pro uses it (Kuerten used to), but that's just what I've grown comfortable hitting with...)

 

[GoudX]

A lot of people say that you should pick one grip for topspin forehand and one grip for topspin backhand, and just stick with it. After all, it takes billions of repetitions with a certain grip to become vaguely proficient at it, and if you move your grip over by even a half bevel - guess what - you're back at square one, and you have to re-do those billions of repetitions to get back to where you were before with your old grip.

This is why we didn't see Tim Henman use a western forehand at the French Open, then revert back to his eastern forehand at Wimbledon - he picked one grip and stuck to it through its advantages and disadvantages, just as one should do.

Recently, however, I am having troubles with my backhand grip. I use a semi-western grip and a 1hbh. My strike zone is between shoulder height to above head height, so I love it when people topspin moonball my backhand (which many do, since they automatically assume that a 1hbh must be weak to high balls), but low slices are giving me trouble.

My philosophy is to never hit a backhand slice ever - no matter how far wide I'm pulled or how low the ball is, I will attempt to loop or drive it back with topspin regardless of how difficult or uncomfortable it is. This is the best way to get better - by forcing yourself to hit shots you find uncomfortable.

On really low balls, however, this means that I'm crouching down so low that my knees are scraping on the ground. The temptation is to switch to a conservative eastern backhand grip and smack these low balls, and I have hit decent winners this way - but I feel that is 'cheating' as my backhand topspin grip is semi-western. Hitting an eastern backhand will not be helping to develop my backhand in the long run as it will confuse my muscle memory, isn't that right?

So is it better to just accept that low balls will be a problem with my semi-western backhand grip rather than try to do something about it by changing backhand topspin grips for low balls?

(Beveldevil will probably tell me that my 1hbh grip is too extreme and no current pro uses it (Kuerten used to), but that's just what I've grown comfortable hitting with...)

Not sure why you're so against the slice. A decent penetrating slice is one of the most effective attacking shots in tennis, as the side spin and low bounce make it very difficult for your opponent to hit. It is also very effective when you cut the ball very short, as you force your opponent out of position.

Remember that tennis is a 3d game, the most effective players beat their opponents by varying their shots along all the axes: left-right, forward-back and up-down. This is done by varying, spin, height and power, so the more options the better.

Anyway, I only change my groundstroke grip in one situation:

I tend to stand right on the baseline as I like to hit the ball on the rise. This causes problems when I'm hitting against an accurate big hitter, who can place the ball right on my feet, as I play with a SW forehand grip. I have problems if my opponent hits a shot right at my feet on the forehand side if I didn't predict the deep shot, however I often find that by redirecting their pace with a half volley can put me back in the point.

That said, it is better to work on movement and anticipation so that you can hit attacking shots from your normal grip.

 

[mightyrick]

My philosophy is to never hit a backhand slice ever - no matter how far wide I'm pulled or how low the ball is, I will attempt to loop or drive it back with topspin regardless of how difficult or uncomfortable it is. This is the best way to get better - by forcing yourself to hit shots you find uncomfortable.

No, it isn't the best way to get better. It is the best way to lose. If you want to get better, then you need to learn to hit the correct shot at the correct time.

Recreational tennis is full of players who hit the wrong shot at the wrong time.

I will only go for a backhand topspin drive when the ball is in my wheel-house between the knees and hips. If the ball is at my shoulders, I will hit a hard, flat, deep slice. If the ball is at my ankles... I'll chip it for a dropshot or hit a chip lob. It's a much higher percentage play to use a shot that is more conducive to the contact point of the ball.

Would you use an overhead shot to hit a ball that was at your shoulders? Of course not. Would you use a slice to hit a ball that was over your head? Of course not. Those are the wrong shots for those contact points. So apply the same logic to the other shots.

If you do that, you'll see you consistency improve and you'll see your shot making improve.

 

[Ehh]

No, it isn't the best way to get better. It is the best way to lose. If you want to get better, then you need to learn to hit the correct shot at the correct time.

Recreational tennis is full of players who hit the wrong shot at the wrong time.

I will only go for a backhand topspin drive when the ball is in my wheel-house between the knees and hips. If the ball is at my shoulders, I will hit a hard, flat, deep slice. If the ball is at my ankles... I'll chip it for a dropshot or hit a chip lob. It's a much higher percentage play to use a shot that is more conducive to the contact point of the ball.

Would you use an overhead shot to hit a ball that was at your shoulders? Of course not. Would you use a slice to hit a ball that was over your head? Of course not. Those are the wrong shots for those contact points. So apply the same logic to the other shots.

If you do that, you'll see you consistency improve and you'll see your shot making improve.

I never play tennis to win, I always play in order to improve my strokes. Specifically, I only care about my backhand, not my forehand. Some matches, I'll only hit backhands. If the opponent hits a sharply angled crosscourt shot to my backhand, I'll bust my ass off to run around my forehand and hit a backhand. This helps to improve my movement as well.

Sometimes, you need to make things almost impossibly hard on yourself, so that you're almost 'overtrained' and you find real matches a bit easier. Why do you think so many pro's practice returning massive serves by getting the coach to serve to them from the service line and from a step-ladder?

The way I see it, I can either hit a defensive slice when a ball isn't in my 'wheelhouse' (too low or too wide) - or I can get in the mentality that I will never hit a slice which forces me to move better so I get to wide balls faster in order to hit a topspin backhand, and I focus on improving my backhand's weakness - low balls by not sidestepping the issue and slicing the ball back.

Of course, it would be cool if it was a legitimate tactic that I could change to an eastern backhand grip to drive low balls - but, again, I feel that is 'cheating' and side-stepping the issue...? Or is it?

 

[mightyrick]

I never play tennis to win, I always play in order to improve my strokes. Specifically, I only care about my backhand, not my forehand. Some matches, I'll only hit backhands.

I guess I don't see the point of training myself to hit a single kind of shot regardless of ball position or contact point. You think differently. Whatever works for you, I guess.

If the opponent hits a sharply angled crosscourt shot to my backhand, I'll bust my ass off to run around my forehand and hit a backhand. This helps to improve my movement as well.

Again, I guess I don't see the logic here. If your opponent hits a great crosscourt shot at a sharp angle, a run-around inside-out forehand is the last thing you should be trying to do.

It sounds like you are already solid on your own approach to the game, so I'm not sure why you're posting this thread... whether it is for you to get input... for you to ask others what they think... or for you to get advice.

The only thing I'd say is that you should leave yourself open to the possibility of making your game multi-faceted. You should be able to hit all the types of forehands and backhands depending on the situation. High percentage tennis will make you a better player.

Other folks are probably going to disagree with your assertions and see things a little differently. If the preponderance of people are seeing things differently, you may want to consider the possibility that you aren't approaching the game in the most optimal way.

 

[anubis]

Yes you should change grips depending on how high the ball is, and how far away from the net you are.

For instance, when I'm on the baseline, I rally with a semi western grip. I hit high and let the topspin bring the ball back down. I have an open stance.

When someone gives me a short, low ball and I have to move up to the service line top get to it, then I get into a closed stance and use an eastern grip to give enough height to that low skidding ball. This gives it enough clearance over the net. If I had instead used a semi western grip, I would have dumped the ball into the net.

And lastly, if I'm at the net, I'm using a continental grip.

So yes, depending on where you are and how high the ball is, your grip should change.

 

[Lukhas]

I guess I don't see the point of training myself to hit a single kind of shot regardless of ball position or contact point. You think differently. Whatever works for you, I guess.

Again, I guess I don't see the logic here. If your opponent hits a great crosscourt shot at a sharp angle, a run-around inside-out forehand is the last thing you should be trying to do.

It sounds like you are already solid on your own approach to the game, so I'm not sure why you're posting this thread... whether it is for you to get input... for you to ask others what they think... or for you to get advice.

The only thing I'd say is that you should leave yourself open to the possibility of making your game multi-faceted. You should be able to hit all the types of forehands and backhands depending on the situation. High percentage tennis will make you a better player.

Other folks are probably going to disagree with your assertions and see things a little differently. If the preponderance of people are seeing things differently, you may want to consider the possibility that you aren't approaching the game in the most optimal way.

I kinda agree. There are such things as shot selection in the game. Which means you can't do anything at anytime. If you absolutely don't care, it's fine.

I tend to open my backhand grip when the ball is low and can't use my regular extreme eastern BH grip. Same when it's too high to slice it with a conti grip. Eastern forehand instead of SW when the ball is too high for regular rally and too low for smashes, to smack it a bit. Conti at net of course.

 

[andrewpmast]

OP,

As a decent rec player who is focused this year on consistency but has a solid server, forehand and backhand (when I'm having a good day), I'd say that my biggest mistake has been trying to keep my grip at SW all throughout a rally, even as I approach and sometimes as a quick response to a volley.

I've learned that grip choice does depend on the opponent. If I play a baseliner who generally hits the same height/arch and landing point, I can stick to the same SW grip and sometimes go western if the ball is really high. But, if I play a slicer/dicer or flat hitter whose balls are low and skip across the court, I will not do well unless I make the grip less extreme (for me, between eastern and SW.

I also find that I inherently brush the ball A LOT with a SW. No matter how much I try to hit flat, I have basically memorized a brushing up on the ball... this memory lacks pace and although it plenty of spin, it still bounces predictably and has little kick. Thus a solid opponent is not likely to miss if they sit back behind the baseline.

I find that if I use an extreme Eastern and not hit the ball as out in front as with the SW, I get more pace, lower ball AND it actually kicks more than when I use a SW. This is MY BODY, MY MOLDED STYLE, because I think grip aside, we all have a swing style that leads to varying results. Good Example, Federer... he's mostly eastern since he hits early and if the ball is higher he changes his extension and reach and angle, almost imitates a SW style top-spin forehand. Some question if he makes a mild adjustment to a SW. Let's assume he sticks with extreme eastern on higher balls... That is something I don't think a lot of players are comfortable doing. It's very unique to his grace and that comes from years of adjusting to various styles. It works for him. For me, trying to hit higher balls with an Eastern forces me to rotate my wrist counter clockwise to make the racket face parallel with the net, or to hit the ball later and I just can't make those changes on the fly, and I prefer a clockwise rotation from a more extreme grip. It just feels right. But, then again, if I do an extreme eastern and I just wait a tad longer for the ball to approach me, it's awesome!!!

 

[10isfreak]

There's a trick to get low balls doing what you want. First, let's simplify reality a bit so that you see what does what in a swing:

-swing path determines the ball's launching angle;
-racket face determines the spin (the more it's close, the more you get spin).

If you want to lift up a low ball, you need to swing more vertically... that's has simple as that.

 

[Govnor]

My own personal feeling is that there is nothing wrong with going a little more extreme on the FH grip when you get a high bouncer, and you're not very tall (like me!).

I feel like It just gives you more safety from hitting long.

 

[boramiNYC]

it might be ok if you are not looking into improving the level rapidly and you don't deal with fast pace that much. nothing wrong with that and enjoy the game.

however, at higher level changing grips around is highly impractical IMO. if you're planning to improve to the next level and on, this is a bad habit in dealing with the problem. there are ways to deal with all heights for each grip using the body and swing. understanding those better and developing better skills in using them to deal with different heights is much sounder approach in the long run.

 

[LeeD]

We should respect your idea of "never slicing", as it's your tennis game to choose.
Hitting low shin high skidders with a strong SW backhand is possible. You lower your prep, stroke thru the ball with a higher finish than your prep position, imparting some topspin, but not nearly as much as strikezone balls.
Just like hitting shoetop groundies with a Hawaiin or Western grip, you can avoid slicing by hitting thru the ball, imparting some amount of SIDESPIN, in addition to a little bit of topspin.
You can never hit as much topspin off a shoetop ball as you would off a chest high ball, but you CAN hit with topspin.
Practice this shot by self drop feets, bouncing the ball to lower shin and then to shoetop heights. Bend the knees a little more, lower the prep position, stroke thru the ball with a high finish.

 

[rkelley]

There's a trick to get low balls doing what you want. First, let's simplify reality a bit so that you see what does what in a swing:

-swing path determines the ball's launching angle;
-racket face determines the spin (the more it's close, the more you get spin).

For all who read this post, I do not agree with the statements above. 10isfreak and I have had this discussion on several threads so no need to do it again here, but I just don't want anyone to assume that these statements are considered general fact.

 

[rkelley]

it might be ok if you are not looking into improving the level rapidly and you don't deal with fast pace that much. nothing wrong with that and enjoy the game.

however, at higher level changing grips around is highly impractical IMO. if you're planning to improve to the next level and on, this is a bad habit in dealing with the problem. there are ways to deal with all heights for each grip using the body and swing. understanding those better and developing better skills in using them to deal with different heights is much sounder approach in the long run.

I agree with this. Pick a horse and ride it. Eastern, SW, W, whatever. They have pluses and minuses. SW is a great grip and you can hit every ball that's not a volley or half volley on your fh side with it. As you get faster and faster balls hit at you it's going to get harder and harder to have time to change grips.

 

[LeeD]

1. OP is talking about SW BACKHAND not forehand.
2. Adding SIDESPIN is the key, just like a Hawaiin or Western FOREHAND on low balls, you add some sidespin to control the depth of your shot. On the backhand, lower your prep, stroke thru the ball, adding sidespin on the followthru.

 

[user92626]

Wow..everybody wrote a novel in this thread. :shock: That just blows my mind.

 

[LeeD]

Yeah, those two line novels make us lots of money.

 

[10isfreak]

For all who read this post, I do not agree with the statements above. 10isfreak and I have had this discussion on several threads so no need to do it again here, but I just don't want anyone to assume that these statements are considered general fact.

Well, I do have hard data to back up that claim...
Federer and Nadal routinely strike the ball with an increment prior contact of less than 18 degrees from the horizontal plane and they get well results ranging anywhere from less than 1000rpm to over 2500rpm with that... Try to find a SINGLE instance of a top pro who hits a ground stroke with a swing plane of more than 45 degrees (from the lowest point of the back swing and up to contact). Best I have seen so far was Nadal, on clay, with roughly 30 degrees of increment and a super-closed racket face -- on hard courts, he doesn't swing that much steeply.

This is a theory, but it's not like it doesn't fit the data -- it's derived directly from there.

 

[10isfreak]

2. Adding SIDESPIN is the key, just like a Hawaiin or Western FOREHAND on low balls, you add some sidespin to control the depth of your shot. On the backhand, lower your prep, stroke through the ball, adding sidespin on the follow through.

It's an interesting tip. On slices, a trick you might often hear is to cut the slice sideways when they're bellow your knees.

 

[LeeD]

Don't forget swing speed, grip pressure, and body momentum into the equation.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I agree with this. Pick a horse and ride it. Eastern, SW, W, whatever. They have pluses and minuses. SW is a great grip and you can hit every ball that's not a volley or half volley on your fh side with it. As you get faster and faster balls hit at you it's going to get harder and harder to have time to change grips.

Disagree with this. The is considerable photographic evidence that pros, like Federer, vary their grip. For Roger, there are pics (from FYB, for one), that show him with a grip that is a classic Eastern FH grip (or very close it). Tennis magazine did an article on him that indicated that his (primary) FH grip was an Eastern with more of a SW flavor. Some call his grip an extreme Eastern. At times, it seems that he goes a little bit further than this.

Pros with 1-handed BHs will often use a conti grip for slice and a more extreme BH grip for topspin shots. Subtle modifications are often made for volleys at the net -- conti grip from some shots (esp BH volleys) and a semi-conti (or semi-semi-conti) on other shots (esp FH volleys). Boris Becker, Serena Williams and others have used a semi-conti grip for first serves and more of a standard conti for 2nd serves. Other servers will use some version of a conti grip for some serves (usually 1st serves) and a more extreme grip (closer to Eastern BH) grip on other serves.

Often the grip variations that pros use are subtle but sometimes it is a bit more noticeable. I have no problem whatsoever using 2 different grip for my serve and my 1-handed BH groundstrokes. For the FH, I will use an extreme Eastern for a majority of my shots. However, it will sometimes shift to a SW or mild SW for high contact points on the FH side if I want to hit topspin. I find that this yields much better control and ability to produce topspin on the high shots. I also find that it puts much less stress on the shoulder/rotator groups.

For badminton, I use even more grip variations than I do for tennis. I have not found that it was really difficult at all to develop this. With s little bit of practice, I've been able to develop muscle memory for these grip changes. If I can do it, a more talented player should have no problem with this.

 

[LeeD]

While it's true a pro or a trained player, who plays more than 4 days a week may use any number of grips for each side (forehand and backhand), to LEARN to hit different height balls, it's better to use one grip until you know where it works best, and where it doesn't (THAT you might change), and decide for yourself what to do.
For LEARNING how to hit backhands, you need ONE grip first. Once you learned to use it most of the time, THEN you can decide to change for specific balls.
If you're learning and switching grips all the time, you never groove ANY stroke but remain confused on all strokes.
KISS, until you learn it, THEN you can adopt a change.

 

[tennis_hack]

Disagree with this. The is considerable photographic evidence that pros, like Federer, vary their grip. For Roger, there are pics (from FYB, for one), that show him with a grip that is a classic Eastern FH grip (or very close it). Tennis magazine did an article on him that indicated that his (primary) FH grip was an Eastern with more of a SW flavor. Some call his grip an extreme Eastern. At times, it seems that he goes a little bit further than this.

Pros with 1-handed BHs will often use a conti grip for slice and a more extreme BH grip for topspin shots. Subtle modifications are often made for volleys at the net -- conti grip from some shots (esp BH volleys) and a semi-conti (or semi-semi-conti) on other shots (esp FH volleys). Boris Becker, Serena Williams and others have used a semi-conti grip for first serves and more of a standard conti for 2nd serves. Other servers will use some version of a conti grip for some serves (usually 1st serves) and a more extreme grip (closer to Eastern BH) grip on other serves.

Often the grip variations that pros use are subtle but sometimes it is a bit more noticeable. I have no problem whatsoever using 2 different grip for my serve and my 1-handed BH groundstrokes. For the FH, I will use an extreme Eastern for a majority of my shots. However, it will sometimes shift to a SW or mild SW for high contact points on the FH side if I want to hit topspin. I find that this yields much better control and ability to produce topspin on the high shots. I also find that it puts much less stress on the shoulder/rotator groups.

For badminton, I use even more grip variations than I do for tennis. I have not found that it was really difficult at all to develop this. With s little bit of practice, I've been able to develop muscle memory for these grip changes. If I can do it, a more talented player should have no problem with this.

No one is disputing that you shoud use a different grip for different shots (ie. you don't need to have the same grip for forehand and backhand and serve and volley and topspin backhand and slice backhand...etc...) - the problem is when people try to change their grip within a topspin groundstroke to match the height of the incoming ball. For example, hitting sw 1hbh grip for topspin on high balls, then eastern 1hbh grip for topspin on low balls. In this situation, if you use a sw topspin 1hbh grip, you just have to accept that it sucks for low balls, and hit low balls with your sw 1hbh grip. Or change to continental and slice it. But don't use an eastern 1hbh and hit topspin because that isn't your normal topspin 1hbh shot - your normal topspin backhand shot is with sw grip.

 

[Muppet]

I approach the question by asking myself how many grips I'd be willing to play with. For many years, I was only willing to play with a conti for serves and volleys, an eastern grip for FH, and the same eastern with an added hand for 2HBH. Pretty simple.

This winter I switched over to an extreme eastern FH, but I've found the eastern to be more versatile. So now I'm using the eastern as my go to FH grip and I switch to the extreme eastern grip when I see a high ball coming in.

My 2HBH will remain my go to BH, until I find a stroke that I like better. I've dabbled with a slice that works very well with the conti grip that I already have for serves and volleys. I hope to figure out how it can be tactically advantageous for me. So far, I'm just kind of throwing it out there.

The last grip/shots I want under my belt is the eastern BH w/ flat drive and topspin shots. That will be more of a project than anything else I'm doing because it will require a grip that I've never used before.

Also, if I step into no man's land or closer, my game is to play an all-conti game from there. I've had some luck with it, but I'd like to set myself up with more experience playing those kinds of points.

The point being . . . I like to commit to a very versatile grip to cover a number of shots. Any alternative grips and shots that I can add on to my game are a bonus. If I can add a eastern BH to my game, it may be for an alternative shot, or it may replace my 2HBH. It depends on how versatile it is.

 

[rkelley]

No one is disputing that you shoud use a different grip for different shots (ie. you don't need to have the same grip for forehand and backhand and serve and volley and topspin backhand and slice backhand...etc...) - the problem is when people try to change their grip within a topspin groundstroke to match the height of the incoming ball. For example, hitting sw 1hbh grip for topspin on high balls, then eastern 1hbh grip for topspin on low balls. In this situation, if you use a sw topspin 1hbh grip, you just have to accept that it sucks for low balls, and hit low balls with your sw 1hbh grip. Or change to continental and slice it. But don't use an eastern 1hbh and hit topspin because that isn't your normal topspin 1hbh shot - your normal topspin backhand shot is with sw grip.

I was going to write this response, but tennis_hack did it for me already. Thanks.

 

[rosewall4ever]

learn to slice...learn continental for slice, volleys and serve....it will make your life easier

 

[rkelley]

learn to slice...learn continental for slice, volleys and serve....it will make your life easier

As noted in other posts, I believe this thread is about changing grips for forehands of different height.

 

[Ash_Smith]

Said this before and will say it again - pro's do vary their grip slightly depending on the ball. Once asked Younes El Aynaoui what grip is forehand was and he replied "for which forehand". And whilst I'm not a pro, i am half decent at tennis and I vary my grips slightly on both sides depending on the ball.

However, that is not to say that recreational players should be doing this and I certainly would recommend it to players unless they have a really, really good feel for the ball and their own strokes.

cheers

 

[rkelley]

Said this before and will say it again - pro's do vary their grip slightly depending on the ball. Once asked Younes El Aynaoui what grip is forehand was and he replied "for which forehand". And whilst I'm not a pro, i am half decent at tennis and I vary my grips slightly on both sides depending on the ball.

However, that is not to say that recreational players should be doing this and I certainly would recommend it to players unless they have a really, really good feel for the ball and their own strokes.

cheers

Thanks Ash. Can you quantify this in any way? Is it from E. to SW level of change (i.e. a whole bevel), or is it a fraction of a bevel?

Sorry, I'm an engineer and have a need to quantify.

 

[tennis_hack]

Said this before and will say it again - pro's do vary their grip slightly depending on the ball. Once asked Younes El Aynaoui what grip is forehand was and he replied "for which forehand". And whilst I'm not a pro, i am half decent at tennis and I vary my grips slightly on both sides depending on the ball.

However, that is not to say that recreational players should be doing this and I certainly would recommend it to players unless they have a really, really good feel for the ball and their own strokes.

cheers

What as in, if Nadal hits a defensive slice squash-shot forehand vs a normal topspin forehand, he probably makes the grip change all the way from extreme semi-western to continental grip...? No-one is disputing that.

Or are you saying that if Nadal hits topspin on a head-height ball he will use a western forehand, and if he is trying to flatten out (but still hit topspin on) a hip-level ball he'll use a semi-western forehand? Now that, I'd dispute. I'd think he'd use his normal forehand grip for every topspin forehand, no matter his intentions of hitting flatter or heavier, and no matter the height of the incoming ball.

 

[tennispodpro]

A lot of people say that you should pick one grip for topspin forehand and one grip for topspin backhand, and just stick with it. After all, it takes billions of repetitions with a certain grip to become vaguely proficient at it, and if you move your grip over by even a half bevel - guess what - you're back at square one, and you have to re-do those billions of repetitions to get back to where you were before with your old grip.

This is why we didn't see Tim Henman use a western forehand at the French Open, then revert back to his eastern forehand at Wimbledon - he picked one grip and stuck to it through its advantages and disadvantages, just as one should do.

Recently, however, I am having troubles with my backhand grip. I use a semi-western grip and a 1hbh. My strike zone is between shoulder height to above head height, so I love it when people topspin moonball my backhand (which many do, since they automatically assume that a 1hbh must be weak to high balls), but low slices are giving me trouble.

My philosophy is to never hit a backhand slice ever - no matter how far wide I'm pulled or how low the ball is, I will attempt to loop or drive it back with topspin regardless of how difficult or uncomfortable it is. This is the best way to get better - by forcing yourself to hit shots you find uncomfortable.

On really low balls, however, this means that I'm crouching down so low that my knees are scraping on the ground. The temptation is to switch to a conservative eastern backhand grip and smack these low balls, and I have hit decent winners this way - but I feel that is 'cheating' as my backhand topspin grip is semi-western. Hitting an eastern backhand will not be helping to develop my backhand in the long run as it will confuse my muscle memory, isn't that right?

So is it better to just accept that low balls will be a problem with my semi-western backhand grip rather than try to do something about it by changing backhand topspin grips for low balls?

(Beveldevil will probably tell me that my 1hbh grip is too extreme and no current pro uses it (Kuerten used to), but that's just what I've grown comfortable hitting with...)

Ehh,

This exact same question was asked to Billie Jean King at a Tennis Conference I attended many years ago; however, it was targeting the volley grip. Her answer was there is no one specific grip for the volley. Because a low volley grip is different than a high volley grip.

I think you are getting some great advice here, and I don't have the answer to your question, as I don't know how much time you have to practice every week, but I can totally visualize what you doing and going through when experimenting with your backhand and backhand grip. I was watching the Powerhorse Cup yesterday and Andre Ghem has that Kuerten grip and he was holding that extreme angle on the return of serve. He lost 4 and 4 to Monaco, but he went toe-to-toe with him on every rally. Let's not forget how much the game is mental, especially at the higher levels. His one-backhand is not a weakness and was not the reason why he lost. It's actually really fun to watch a guy rip a one-handed backhand like Ghem.

I have this guy who starting taking a monthly lesson with me and he is a talented athlete. He was only hitting his backhand like Richard Gasquet, taking full cuts on every swing. However, I knew this was not practical, and I my opinion, not advisable because it became too predictable and I was able to just move him all around the court and he was always running back to get time to set-up for every shot. So, I made a suggestion to do a return of serve drill where I moved him into no-man's land and had him imagine a clock on his side and just take the racket back to 9 o'clock and take it on the rise. We made a modification on the grip and within a few cracks at the ball; he was hitting a different, flatter ball. He totally got it and I explained how it is important to have variety in your game. He also has the upper body strength to take the ball on the rise and do this technique.

So, to give my two cents on the this subject, you will HAVE too learn more variety on the backhand which will require subtle grip changes, otherwise you will be stuck too far behind the baseline and just chasing down balls. And yes, as far as the backhand slice goes, you should definitely incorporate that into your game too, but that's another grip change!! So, how much time to you have?

Good luck!

 

[Avles]

What as in, if Nadal hits a defensive slice squash-shot forehand vs a normal topspin forehand, he probably makes the grip change all the way from extreme semi-western to continental grip...? No-one is disputing that.

No, Ash is not talking squash-shot slice forehand vs. normal topspin forehand-- those are totally different shots and of course the grips will change for them. The thread is talking about changing grips for the same shot to respond to differences in the incoming ball.

Or are you saying that if Nadal hits topspin on a head-height ball he will use a western forehand, and if he is trying to flatten out (but still hit topspin on) a hip-level ball he'll use a semi-western forehand? Now that, I'd dispute. I'd think he'd use his normal forehand grip for every topspin forehand, no matter his intentions of hitting flatter or heavier, and no matter the height of the incoming ball.

There's a video where Nadal suggests that he slightly adjusts his FH grip based on surface-- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLm0zbDONUU&t=3m47s). (He says "this doesn't mean that I can't make slight modifications for different surfaces, but my basic grip is this one.")

Not the same thing as changing in the course of a single match based on incoming shot, but seemingly an indicator that he doesn't always use exactly the same grip for every TS forehand. So I think it's very plausible that he'd tweak the grip to respond to differences in height.

I think the shifts would be pretty subtle though-- not nearly moving a whole bevel.

 

[10isfreak]

If he says that he sometimes adjusts for different surfaces, it's different from saying you may adjust during a match. You get several weeks playing on
hard courts, then on clay, then two or three on grass and finally, you end the years with MONTHS on hard courts. If he changes his grip twice a year
and only subtly, you can't say from that fact that he might do it within a match. The difference is just too plain huge to not be taken into account.

EDIT
I must confess, however, that I do change my forehand grip sometimes, especially inside the court. On the vast majority of balls, I hit with a
semi-western. However, if my intention isn't to hit big, I'll take a milder grip. You won't see me do this very often in match because I rarely intend to be
kind with an opponent during a rally. But if I play with a beginner or I wish to just place the ball to keep a rally going, it's an option. I might do it too with
my backhand grip, again, mostly inside the court and usually with the intention of being kind and polite... so, you'll rarely see that in a match.

If you ever played with a beginner or gave lessons, you know what I am talking about.

 

[tennispodpro]

This is why they need to have rankings for each surface. Lendl suggested this years ago. Even though Fed got trounced last weekend by Nadal on the dirt, I still like his chances at Wimby with the roof closed. We'll see what happens.

 

[tennis_balla]

Said this before and will say it again - pro's do vary their grip slightly depending on the ball. Once asked Younes El Aynaoui what grip is forehand was and he replied "for which forehand". And whilst I'm not a pro, i am half decent at tennis and I vary my grips slightly on both sides depending on the ball.

However, that is not to say that recreational players should be doing this and I certainly would recommend it to players unless they have a really, really good feel for the ball and their own strokes.

cheers

+1

10char

 

[Ash_Smith]

Thanks Ash. Can you quantify this in any way? Is it from E. to SW level of change (i.e. a whole bevel), or is it a fraction of a bevel?

Sorry, I'm an engineer and have a need to quantify.

No, it's unlikely to be a full bevel, Younes was saying he slightly adjusts his base knuckle and/or heel pad positions on the grip depending on the incoming ball. I'm sure other players at that level do the same for different heights.

I think on here people get caught up in what name is given to what and labels like semi-western, western etc and that only something that meets that label is right - at an elite level it isn't like that at all, the contact point dictates the grip (which incidentally is how i teach grips).

cheers

 

[Ash_Smith]

What as in, if Nadal hits a defensive slice squash-shot forehand vs a normal topspin forehand, he probably makes the grip change all the way from extreme semi-western to continental grip...? No-one is disputing that.

Or are you saying that if Nadal hits topspin on a head-height ball he will use a western forehand, and if he is trying to flatten out (but still hit topspin on) a hip-level ball he'll use a semi-western forehand? Now that, I'd dispute. I'd think he'd use his normal forehand grip for every topspin forehand, no matter his intentions of hitting flatter or heavier, and no matter the height of the incoming ball.

No, i'm talking about very subtle shifts in base knuckle of heel pad position, it's unlikely to be a full bevel, but it might be in extreme circumstances.

cheers

 

[LeeD]

For GOOD players, the shift might be due to court surface, or the bounce that day from the opponent.
They don't change shot to shot very much.
They do change for court and opponent shots.
Say, you're playing a slicer dicer on grass one week. You might use your current grip, or you might grip it a little more towards conti to counter the shin and shoetop high shots.
Next week, you're playing Nadal on slow abrasive clay. You might use your normal grip or you might shift slightly to more stronger grips to counter his higher bouncing balls.
But you NEED a base grip that is solid, stable, something you KNOW and can go back to every time it's needed.
Novices should not switch grips for different height balls. Pros might need to shift, for the reason's above.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

No one is disputing that you shoud use a different grip for different shots (ie. you don't need to have the same grip for forehand and backhand and serve and volley and topspin backhand and slice backhand...etc...) - the problem is when people try to change their grip within a topspin groundstroke to match the height of the incoming ball. For example, hitting sw 1hbh grip for topspin on high balls, then eastern 1hbh grip for topspin on low balls. In this situation, if you use a sw topspin 1hbh grip, you just have to accept that it sucks for low balls, and hit low balls with your sw 1hbh grip. Or change to continental and slice it. But don't use an eastern 1hbh and hit topspin because that isn't your normal topspin 1hbh shot - your normal topspin backhand shot is with sw grip.

Did you really read & understand my post completely? It appears that you've only addressed one aspect and have failed to acknowledge that I was not only addressing the height issue, but also talking about using multiple grips in general for each type of shot. There are those who feel that players should not use any more than 1 grip for the BH, another single grip for the FH, one grip for the serve and a single grip for all volleys. When 1st learning or teaching the various strokes, we usually stick with this philosophy for the most part.

However, many intermediate and advanced players are quite capable of making grip adjustments, just as we make swing path adjustment, for balls with varying contact point locations. No, we do not have to accept that Western or SW Fh grips might suck for low ball and an Eastern might not be optimal for very high contact points. Why should we limit ourselves in this manner if we are capable of developing more tools? Some players may not be up to the task or are just unwilling to spend a bit of time to develop this.

 

[tennis_hack]

IF you guys are saying (as you seem to be) that pro players adjust their grip a half bevel round (like from extreme eastern to semi-western, or extreme semi-western to western) - I just don't see how that can be done - even if it is just for different surfaces and not within a single match.

This is because it takes billions of repetitions to get good hitting a forehand with a certain grip. It takes your whole life to get good at that shot and to bring it up to pro level. Now if you shift your grip around by half a bevel - ALL that practice you've put in has been undone. You went from an extreme eastern forehand to a semi-western forehand, and now you, essentially, have to learn how to hit a forehand all over again from scratch. That half-bevel adjustment makes the forehand a completely different shot. Another billion repetitions. There simply aren't enough years in a lifetime for a pro to get good at hitting a topspin extreme eastern forehand AND a topspin semi-western forehand - he only has enough time in his life to get good at ONE of those.

 

[ProgressoR]

IF you guys are saying (as you seem to be) that pro players adjust their grip a half bevel round (like from extreme eastern to semi-western, or extreme semi-western to western) - I just don't see how that can be done - even if it is just for different surfaces and not within a single match.

This is because it takes billions of repetitions to get good hitting a forehand with a certain grip. It takes your whole life to get good at that shot and to bring it up to pro level. Now if you shift your grip around by half a bevel - ALL that practice you've put in has been undone. You went from an extreme eastern forehand to a semi-western forehand, and now you, essentially, have to learn how to hit a forehand all over again from scratch. That half-bevel adjustment makes the forehand a completely different shot. Another billion repetitions. There simply aren't enough years in a lifetime for a pro to get good at hitting a topspin extreme eastern forehand AND a topspin semi-western forehand - he only has enough time in his life to get good at ONE of those.

Hmm, not sure about this, I have 1.5 years playing time and I hit EFH, I tried SW Fh for a change and it was pretty serviceable, but i just didnt like the feel and i had to work harder, so I stuck to EFH. Now a pro whose whole professional life is tennis, can easily spend some time to get used to slight changes in grips. Remember their expertise in their base grip is HUGE, so I can easily imagine then making a small change and easily coping with it.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

... This is because it takes billions of repetitions to get good hitting a forehand with a certain grip...

It took me less than 2 minutes to adjust to a grip change. I've had students who were a little better than average, athletically, do the same thing. None of us are elite players/athletes yet we still managed to make the adjustment in a fairly short time. I think that this might be a prime example of brain plasticity. Some brains are more plastic than others.

 

[LeeD]

I suspect the "brain elasticity" thing works in practice sessions, and will totally confuse you in a real pressure match.