Chardy forehand: non ATP style?

[anubis]

Was watching the Fed/Chardy match over the weekend. Most ATP forehands have the racquet hoop on the same side of the body as the ball. The "whip-like" action of the stroke forces the hoop to flip over to the other side, generating racquet head speed before it comes in contact with the ball.

WTA style forehand has the hoop facing the other direction, behind the body, away from the ball. It's already in it's proper position to hit the ball, sort of like a baseball player hitting the ball with the bat. Also, with the hoop on the opposite side of the body, the swing path has an additional 2 to 3 feet (depending on your wingspan) of distance to cover when you begin the swing, which gives you a little more time to build up speed.

Anyway, I noticed that Chardy has a non-traditional forehand. He puts the racquet all the way back, like a WTA style. Even though folks like Rick Macci and Salzenstein don't think that this is the best way for a male to hit a forehand, Chardy uses it to great success.

I've always tried to adopt the ATP style, with the hoop on the side of the in-coming ball. I've never had a lot of luck though in generating decent racquet head speed. Would it be worth it to try to move the frame behind me more, more like a WTA/Chardy style? Do you think I might be able to generate more RHS that way?

I am hesitant to try it, because so many teaching pros do not agree with it.

thanks!

 

[dominikk1985]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD6oDOIeHbg

 

[maxpotapov]

It's OK, could be worse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_9wB_pfF-I

 

[dominikk1985]

It's OK, could be worse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_9wB_pfF-I

looks like he inspired by him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IApHNntsSnw

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Full western grip. Easily one of the best forehands on the tour.

 

[corners]

Chardy hits like the WTA players. Yes, it's worth trying if ATP-style isn't working. As Chardy shows, possible to hit with great power and spin with this technique.

 

[dominikk1985]

you have to consider that the western grip makes the racket point to the "inside" (even when the wrist is neutral) more because with the Western grip there is a natural angle between the forearm and racket.

for example feds racket points to the outside more while djokovics racket almost points to the back fence.

that means the grip makes chardys FH look more WTAish than it is although he certainly does have some early laying back and supination of the hand.

 

[TennisCJC]

I would advise against Chardy's FHA style. Too big a swing in my view. To quantify it, his racket head probably goes 1.5 to 2 feet farther back which means it also has to go the same distance forward to get back where it started. So, his fh is 3 to 4 feet longer than most other pros. That is a lot of movement which takes more time to execute. I think it is better to keep the racket head in front of your shoulders because it is quicker to the ball, easier to shorten the backswing when pressured, easier to time, and less movement equates to less chance of something going off. You can hit the ball just as hard with fluid compact stroke as Fed, Agassi, Henin, and many others have proven. Why don't you try a couple of lessons to see if a pro can tune your fh before you go to bigger swing.

 

[mightyrick]

Chardy's style is fine. There's nothing wrong with it. Locking people into one style of takeback or swing-forward is as bad as locking someone into one stance or forehand/backhand grip.

There are more than one acceptable way for executing a tennis forehand/backhand/serve all the way up to the professional level.

And before anyone says it, Chardy's style is not "old school", either.

 

[TennisCJC]

Chardy's style is fine. There's nothing wrong with it. Locking people into one style of takeback or swing-forward is as bad as locking someone into one stance or forehand/backhand grip.

There are more than one acceptable way for executing a tennis forehand/backhand/serve all the way up to the professional level.

And before anyone says it, Chardy's style is not "old school", either.

Your opinion is it is fine and I respect your opinion.

My opinion is it is not fine and I think my opinion is just as valid as yours.

It works for Chardy no doubt. But, my opinion is it is not the best solution for most players. There will always be exceptions to every technique and Chardy's technique is on the outside of the bell curve - a bit unusual. It can work but I think a more compact stroke is more common for a reason and the reason is it is easier to execute and more efficient.

 

[mightyrick]

Your opinion is it is fine and I respect your opinion.

My opinion is it is not fine and I think my opinion is just as valid as yours.

It works for Chardy no doubt. But, my opinion is it is not the best solution for most players. There will always be exceptions to every technique and Chardy's technique is on the outside of the bell curve - a bit unusual. It can work but I think a more compact stroke is more common for a reason and the reason is it is easier to execute and more efficient.

I also respect your opinion. I also agree that the compact stroke is more common fundamentally-sound stroke.

However, I don't necessarily agree that it is because of the reason you are stating. I remember when Krickstein came out and was probably the one of the first (if not the first) guys to really start the entire ATP-style forehand. I think coaches saw Krickstein's results from his mechanics and honestly just decided to start breaking down and teaching that style.

I don't agree that it is easier, though. I'd argue that a full ATP style is actually much more difficult because of the timing of the forehand lag.

To me, the big disadvantage of Chardy's forehand is that it forces him to begin preparation very early -- which robs him of time on hard-pace incoming balls. Which points to Chardy's big weakness... he isn't great hitting on the run. However, absent that disadvantage... when Chardy is able to set his feet, he has one of the most consistent forehands on tour. The guy doesn't shank a ball. His stroke is much more fluid, less moving parts, less elasticity.

So in summary, I believe coaches teach ATP-style because the net results are better for advanced-level players than the looping "C" style of forehand... not because the ATP-style is easier.

 

[rh310]

looks like he inspired by him

Looks like the Karate Kid super ninja move.

 

[sureshs]

I am hesitant to try it, because so many teaching pros do not agree with it.

Don't worry. Those teaching pros have never played at the advanced level at which Chardy plays.

 

[mbm0912]

I could settle for this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2l3wf3s0Nk

 

[dominikk1985]

chardy hit like 50 FH winners against dolgo today.

his FH is ugly but one of the heaviest FHs on tour.

 

[Neutron]

chardy hit like 50 FH winners against dolgo today.

his FH is ugly but one of the heaviest FHs on tour.

I think he might have even hit more than that. I think it is the most aggresive forehand on tour right now, the current Gonzales.

Everything revolves around his forehand, and the way he can take it out of the air for a drive volley from the middle of the court is sick!

 

[anubis]

I tried it for two matches and I think it hurts my wrist a bit. Turning my wrist in the other direction and having the weight of the racquet suspended by my bent wrist puts a little too much strain on it. When the racquet is facing outside (like a normal ATP style forehand), it's simply easier on my wrist. I'm talking TFCC area of my wrist, BTW.

True I generate way more power with the Chardy style, but I also want to continue to play for a long time with no injuries, so I think I'll just play normal. I have trouble generating my own pace, but I guess I was looking for an easy way out. There's plenty of ways to hit "correctly" and still generate RHS.

 

[mightyrick]

I tried it for two matches and I think it hurts my wrist a bit. Turning my wrist in the other direction and having the weight of the racquet suspended by my bent wrist puts a little too much strain on it. When the racquet is facing outside (like a normal ATP style forehand), it's simply easier on my wrist. I'm talking TFCC area of my wrist, BTW.

If you have wrist pain with a more WTA style of forehand, then your wrist is pretty bad. Physiologically speaking, I cannot see how the WTA style of forehand would place more stress on the wrist than the ATP style.

If your goal is to reduce pain, maintain consistency, and stay healthy... you might want to consider a classic forehand. That might seem uncool and blasphemy to some of the TTW NTRP 6.0s on this board, but there are plenty of awesome players who hit with a classic forehand.

Conservative loose grip, moderate swing tempo, Circle-C loop, over-the-shoulder finish or finish out in front.

I don't hit a forehand like the man, but IMHO there is no player I have ever seen who has a simpler, smoother, physically-safer looking stroke than Brent Abel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLYCZJRb0IM

 

[dominikk1985]

If you have wrist pain with a more WTA style of forehand, then your wrist is pretty bad. Physiologically speaking, I cannot see how the WTA style of forehand would place more stress on the wrist than the ATP style.

If your goal is to reduce pain, maintain consistency, and stay healthy... you might want to consider a classic forehand. That might seem uncool and blasphemy to some of the TTW NTRP 6.0s on this board, but there are plenty of awesome players who hit with a classic forehand.

Conservative loose grip, moderate swing tempo, Circle-C loop, over-the-shoulder finish or finish out in front.

I don't hit a forehand like the man, but IMHO there is no player I have ever seen who has a simpler, smoother, physically-safer looking stroke than Brent Abel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLYCZJRb0IM

yes, the ATP FH puts more stress on the wrist because the wrist is stretched fast rather than slow. the faster a muscle is stretched, the greater the strain.

still I can't really generate a lot of power with the WTA style. since I switched to the ATP takeback I swing much faster. probably different for different players.

 

[RetroSpin]

Chadry's FH would be among the last I would recommend someone copy. I think gulbis' is more technically sound and probably easier to execute.

Chadry's stroke is too long, his elbow gets too close to his body, there is little SSC acceleration and there is way too much going on. It may be ok for a pro with elite coordination who practices 6 hours a day, but i wouldn't want to try to duplicate it.

Brent Abel's FH is a classic old school stroke. For most rec players, it's probably not a bad choice, but it's not going to remind anyone of Nadal or Fed. You're probably not going to make the ball jump off the court with it, but it will be reliable.

 

[mightyrick]

I think gulbis' is more technically sound and probably easier to execute.

PLEASE tell me that you did not just seriously recommend Gulbis' stroke as being technically sound. Gulbis' stroke is probably the most fundamentally flawed forehand on the ATP in years. I was just watching the replay of his match against Querrey and I think Gimelstob and the other announcers ragged on Gulbis' stroke the entire match as his greatest weakness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3S3oPEd14&t=27s

My god... that ***** is ugly!

 

[tennis_hack]

Forgive me, I spend so much time obsessing about backhands, that I am rusty on forehand knowledge - how is Chardy's forehand more ATP-ish than others?

He has a very extreme grip, lays the wrist back, and has a 'pat-the-dog' motion in the take-back - all seems very ATP-ish to me?

 

[dominikk1985]

Forgive me, I spend so much time obsessing about backhands, that I am rusty on forehand knowledge - how is Chardy's forehand more ATP-ish than others?

He has a very extreme grip, lays the wrist back, and has a 'pat-the-dog' motion in the take-back - all seems very ATP-ish to me?

because he lays back the wrist in the backswing instead of keeping the wrist neutral during the backswing and lay it back during the forward swing.

 

[Sunshine22]

PLEASE tell me that you did not just seriously recommend Gulbis' stroke as being technically sound. Gulbis' stroke is probably the most fundamentally flawed forehand on the ATP in years. I was just watching the replay of his match against Querrey and I think Gimelstob and the other announcers ragged on Gulbis' stroke the entire match as his greatest weakness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3S3oPEd14&t=27s

My god... that ***** is ugly!

It may not be pretty, but his forehand is a serious weapon. I don't think it's any more "flawed" than Nadal's...

 

[tennis_hack]

because he lays back the wrist in the backswing instead of keeping the wrist neutral during the backswing and lay it back during the forward swing.

Got it - thanks.

Do the same differences in the timing of the wrist laying back occur between WTA vs ATP players in the two or one handed backhand as well?