Cheaper alternatives to X1 Biphase and ALU Rough?

[g4driver]

@g4driver

YPTA according to the TW string database and stringersforum seems to have high tension loss, is this not an important factor with poly crosses for gut/poly multi/poly ? I understand real world performance might be different from TW string tension loss measurements.

What do you think about outlast or evolution as a hybrid cross? Is it too stiff?

stringerforum has cream on very low durability , is cream generally the first to break in a hybrid as a cross.. or is this just compared to other indestructible polys and not something we should worry about?

I don't read or look at stringersforum, but I do string and hit every string I stock before putting it in a client's frame. Even Lux 4G.

YPTA and Isospeed Cream are both Elastomer (Rubber ) infused copolys (lots of rubber in these string's DNA). I am adamant there is more rubber in those two copoly strings than any other copolys strings. Elastomer is listed as a primary ingredient for both of these strings on there company's webpages. I have never purchased or strung Lux Element, but I suspect it is also as an elastomer- heavy DNA as well. These are not durable strings, they are however both smooth and extremely soft strings.

Not sure which Evolution you are asking about. There is Diadem Evolution and Kirschbaum Pro Line Evolution, but I haven't hit with either. Solinco Outlast has been around since at least 2012 when I first noticed it, but it didn't impress me enough to buy it again.

I have learned three things as a stringer:
1) strings and beer have a lot in common. Both have hundreds of options (well maybe thousands for beer) and both have some winners and plenty of losers.
2) most people don't restring has often as they should
3) most people play with strings not suited for their skill level (This is rampant in the lower levels of players)

Based on my experience with 4.0. 4.5 and 5.0 men, they have proven to me that they can win with VCT 1.30mm until it breaks. I find a similar effect with quality Natural Gut like Lux and Babolat and certain copolys. My elbow and shoulder don't feel the dead smooth copolys as much as some players, and I don't notice any drop off in playability with Gut/Hawk, Gut/Ghostwire, Gut/Cream, Gut/YPTA until 20+ hours of play. Then I flip my frame, cut out my poly crosses and restring the crosses. Been doing that for years on my frames, like others on this forum. I have a 6 point Alpha Ghost that has been outstanding for five years.

 

[MasterZeb]

Hmm so I was doing a bit more digging, and one poly that’s really grabbed my attention is the tourna big hitter silver. What do people think about it as a cheap ALU power?

 

[MasterZeb]

I also really liked the look of dunlop black widow.

 

[MasterZeb]

I’ve seen a lot of people advise me that putting a shaped poly will eat up the multi far too quickly. With the ALU power rough though, I found that I lost about 2 hours of playtime before it broke compared to the regular ALU power, which I am fine with accepting for the additional spin. Would you guys say that rough strings in that case are better for the multi than rough strings? @g4driver

 

[BRS1076]

I tried NGW gut in my mains with a couple poly crosses. Unfortunately, the NGW (V2) gut had a tendency to break on the stringing machine or in the bag. There's a whole thread on that, so I just summarize by saying that those string jobs that survived that were quickly eaten up by the crosses. G4's quote is spot on.

I guess my question is what qualities are you trying to coax out of your stringbed? Do you primarily want the power or feel of a gut/multi? Or the spin of poly? The mains will be the dominant gene of the stringbed. I did have trouble but my gut/poly with controlling depth. My shots were drifting long. It was more power than I was used to and I was not getting enough spin to keep the ball in play. Perhaps, had I stuck with it, I would have adjusted, but my experience with NGW was too frustrating.

I also tried Isospeed Cream 17 with Cyclone 19 crosses. Isospeed Cream is a relatively low powered and held up well against Cyclone. Still I had the similar problem of my shots drifting long. Then I reversed the this hybrid and had much greater success. Cyclone 19 is much more flexible than its thicker gauged siblings and has more pop than most polys. It also has incredible spin. I have been using it with Cream and OGSM crosses which tends to soften/mute the stringbed a bit. My only regret is not having stocked up on several reels of Cyclone 19 when my local shop was selling it for $50 a reel!!

My only other suggestion is trying Wilson Revolve 17 as a cross. I tried it as a main with Cyberflash crosses. The spin was unworldly, but this is only hybrid that made my elbow aching. Revolve 17 may not eat your multi-mains as quickly as other shaped polys, and the harshness of Revolve should be mitigated by the multi.

 

[MasterZeb]

I tried NGW gut in my mains with a couple poly crosses. Unfortunately, the NGW (V2) gut had a tendency to break on the stringing machine or in the bag. There's a whole thread on that, so I just summarize by saying that those string jobs that survived that were quickly eaten up by the crosses. G4's quote is spot on.

I guess my question is what qualities are you trying to coax out of your stringbed? Do you primarily want the power or feel of a gut/multi? Or the spin of poly? The mains will be the dominant gene of the stringbed. I did have trouble but my gut/poly with controlling depth. My shots were drifting long. It was more power than I was used to and I was not getting enough spin to keep the ball in play. Perhaps, had I stuck with it, I would have adjusted, but my experience with NGW was too frustrating.

I also tried Isospeed Cream 17 with Cyclone 19 crosses. Isospeed Cream is a relatively low powered and held up well against Cyclone. Still I had the similar problem of my shots drifting long. Then I reversed the this hybrid and had much greater success. Cyclone 19 is much more flexible than its thicker gauged siblings and has more pop than most polys. It also has incredible spin. I have been using it with Cream and OGSM crosses which tends to soften/mute the stringbed a bit. My only regret is not having stocked up on several reels of Cyclone 19 when my local shop was selling it for $50 a reel!!

My only other suggestion is trying Wilson Revolve 17 as a cross. I tried it as a main with Cyberflash crosses. The spin was unworldly, but this is only hybrid that made my elbow aching. Revolve 17 may not eat your multi-mains as quickly as other shaped polys, and the harshness of Revolve should be mitigated by the multi.

I like a soft plush stringbed. Absolutely hate stiff ones. And so poly mains are straight out of the question for me. Multi mains for sure in which case. The X1 and ALU power combo is absolutely perfect, which is why I’m trying to find cheaper alternatives. I also had the issue of the ball launching long. But overtime I just learnt to adapt and get used to it. But the rough cross string also helps in keeping the ball in as well due to the it grabbing the ball better, which is why I want a rough cross string. Smooth ALU power works no issue, just that I prefer the rough one. No experience whatsoever with shaped polys. Wow seems like revolve may be quite a harsh string. Don’t think my elbow can deal with that at all even as a cross. It’s incredibly sensitive.

 

[TierOneSportsOfficial]

Triumph/Black Knight

 

[Papa Mango]

I don't read or look at stringersforum, but I do string and hit every string I stock before putting it in a client's frame. Even Lux 4G.

YPTA and Isospeed Cream are both Elastomer (Rubber ) infused copolys (lots of rubber in these string's DNA). I am adamant there is more rubber in those two copoly strings than any other copolys strings. Elastomer is listed as a primary ingredient for both of these strings on there company's webpages. I have never purchased or strung Lux Element, but I suspect it is also as an elastomer- heavy DNA as well. These are not durable strings, they are however both smooth and extremely soft strings.

Not sure which Evolution you are asking about. There is Diadem Evolution and Kirschbaum Pro Line Evolution, but I haven't hit with either. Solinco Outlast has been around since at least 2012 when I first noticed it, but it didn't impress me enough to buy it again.

I have learned three things as a stringer:
1) strings and beer have a lot in common. Both have hundreds of options (well maybe thousands for beer) and both have some winners and plenty of losers.
2) most people don't restring has often as they should
3) most people play with strings not suited for their skill level (This is rampant in the lower levels of players)

Based on my experience with 4.0. 4.5 and 5.0 men, they have proven to me that they can win with VCT 1.30mm until it breaks. I find a similar effect with quality Natural Gut like Lux and Babolat and certain copolys. My elbow and shoulder don't feel the dead smooth copolys as much as some players, and I don't notice any drop off in playability with Gut/Hawk, Gut/Ghostwire, Gut/Cream, Gut/YPTA until 20+ hours of play. Then I flip my frame, cut out my poly crosses and restring the crosses. Been doing that for years on my frames, like others on this forum. I have a 6 point Alpha Ghost that has been outstanding for five years.

Don't even bother with Lux element. It's one of the worst polys I have tried with (never full but both main/cross in a hybrid) and it is nothing like cream.
I am ok with cream but hate the pinging sound/feel (same with GW) it has.
Based on your ringing endorsement I do have a set of YPTA coming in. Will give it a shot but I am guessing it is not going to have a big enough wow, considering $'s, for me to make a switch from my current Cyberflash crosses.

As to the OP, have you tried Multifeel as the main, but stringing it a 2-4 lbs lower than X-1?
From what I remember from my multi days, it was the most durable multi but definitely not as soft as X-1 or NRG.
Alternately just buy the X-1reel now that it is on sale.

 

[golden chicken]

A more spin friendly multi main like Velocity or Multifeel might get you that little extra spin you need from the rough ALU, so maybe try those along with regular ALU or Big Hitter Silver crosses?

 

[MasterZeb]

Don't even bother with Lux element. It's one of the worst polys I have tried with (never full but both main/cross in a hybrid) and it is nothing like cream.
I am ok with cream but hate the pinging sound/feel (same with GW) it has.
Based on your ringing endorsement I do have a set of YPTA coming in. Will give it a shot but I am guessing it is not going to have a big enough wow, considering $'s, for me to make a switch from my current Cyberflash crosses.

As to the OP, have you tried Multifeel as the main, but stringing it a 2-4 lbs lower than X-1?
From what I remember from my multi days, it was the most durable multi but definitely not as soft as X-1 or NRG.
Alternately just buy the X-1reel now that it is on sale.

I haven’t but the £160 price tag compared to the velocity mlt and sensation price of £75, I’m not sure I will tbh. I did do some quick research and I’m not sure about the comfort with it having the solid core.

I do already buy the x One Biphase on sale. Works out as £15 a set. Which is good for it, but is still expensive. No way can I pay the £30 rrp.

 

[MasterZeb]

A more spin friendly multi main like Velocity or Multifeel might get you that little extra spin you need from the rough ALU, so maybe try those along with regular ALU or Big Hitter Silver crosses?

A very good point actually that although I hadn’t considered, makes perfect sense. Do you have experience with big hitter silver?

 

[golden chicken]

No, I've been using full beds of Velocity lately, and before that, NXT. I might try a hybrid of the two next season.

 

[g4driver]

I am ok with cream but hate the pinging sound/feel (same with GW) it has.

Based on your ringing endorsement I do have a set of YPTA coming in. Will give it a shot but I am guessing it is not going to have a big enough wow, considering $'s, for me to make a switch from my current Cyberflash crosses.

I use YPTA, Cream and Ghostwire as cross strings primarily. YPTA is the softest, GW is the stiffest of the three, but all GW is till one of the three softest smooth polys I have hit with, stock and string. I use GW with edged strings like FireWire, Hyper G, Cyclone to soften the stringed.

YPTA is softer than any string that is listed under TW's polys that I have found (or any poly for that matter. It isn't a sting for everyone but is extremely soft.

Cream and YPTA are heavy on the elastomer (rubber) DNA. Cream is cheaper MSRP, but my price for YPTA is approx $2.50 for 16.5' cut from a reel. A reel gives me 40 sets of crosses for a 16x19 100 square inch frame, which seems to be about 95% of my business )

 

[Papa Mango]

I haven’t but the £160 price tag compared to the velocity mlt and sensation price of £75, I’m not sure I will tbh. I did do some quick research and I’m not sure about the comfort with it having the solid core.

I do already buy the x One Biphase on sale. Works out as £15 a set. Which is good for it, but is still expensive. No way can I pay the £30 rrp.

Is the 160 for multifeel? At the TW US site multifeel reel/set is the cheapest of the three. Unfortunately I don't think you are going to find comfort and durability with a multi main in this set up (disclaimer I have never played with velocity but have with most other multi).
You will get better durability with gut mains, cheaper one like Klip but not sure if that'll make up for the price difference for you.
Good luck!

 

[Papa Mango]

I use YPTA, Cream and Ghostwire as cross strings primarily. YPTA is the softest, GW is the stiffest of the three, but all GW is till one of the three softest smooth polys I have hit with, stock and string. I use GW with edged strings like FireWire, Hyper G, Cyclone to soften the stringed.

YPTA is softer than any string that is listed under TW's polys that I have found (or any poly for that matter. It isn't a sting for everyone but is extremely soft.

Yes I am gut/poly hybrid guy so my search is mostly for the holy grail cross. Although I do playtest most strings in the mains as well. Element failed in both for me even if it was 5 bucks a pack.
Agree with above the exception of YPTA which I shall be trying out next week as a cross. I did see the stiffness number in the TW string DB and am intrigued. But why blue? That's gonna clash with my racket.

Cream and YPTA are heavy on the elastomer (rubber) DNA. Cream is cheaper MSRP, but my price for YPTA is approx $2.50 for 16.5' cut from a reel. A reel gives me 40 sets of crosses for a 16x19 100 square inch frame, which seems to be about 95% of my business )

Cheaper than $75 for a 720' cyberflash reel? Haven't done the math but that seems under 2 for me.
I better not like YPTA better than CF