Check out these old greats on vid

King_olaf_the_hairy said:
Found an interesting wee YT channel the other day.

First, this video was recommended to me by the algorithm. "McEnroe on Connors' beef with Agassi" Not sure exactly when it's from, if someone wants to try dating it precisely:
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The video is from the seniors' tour, but the history of the Agassi and Connors beef dates back to the 1988 US Open, before Agassi and Connors met in the quarter finals. Agassi reminded Connors that he hit with him on his 4th birthday in 1974, and Connors was in war soldier mode and basically told 18-year-old Agassi to go away, similar to what Connors did to 18-year-old McEnroe before their 1977 Wimbledon semi final. Agassi was annoyed, feeling that it was disrespectful, and Agassi then predicted that he would beat Connors 6-3, 6-3, 6-3. When Agassi went on to beat Connors in that 1988 US Open quarter final 6-2, 7-6, 6-1, Agassi said afterwards "still 9 games lost". Connors then said that Agassi had made a big mistake, because they would be meeting again. Sure enough, it was Agassi vs. Connors again in the 1989 US Open quarter final, and Agassi had a more difficult year in 1989 with the raised expectations from 1988 when Agassi had gotten as high as world number 3. Agassi beat Connors in their 1989 US Open quarter final 6-1, 4-6, 0-6, 6-3, 6-4, and some people thought it was obvious that Agassi had tanked the third set in order to finally win a match that went into a fifth set, which annoyed Connors no end.

Later, there was the whole praise that Agassi got for rising back up the rankings after having fallen to 141 in the world in November 1997. Connors blasted Agassi for falling that low in the rankings in the first place.

Also, didn't Connors once make a joke about having spent a lot of time in Vegas, and that he might have some kids there, and that Andre might even be one of them?
 
Mustard said:
Nastase is crazy. Pohmann should have confronted him directly, like Tanner did in their 1974 US Open third round match.


For anyone wondering when it was, it was at the 1976 US Open, in the second round.


1. The men's singles at the US Opens of 1975, 1976 and 1978 were best of 3 sets in the first 3 rounds, and then best of 5 sets from the fourth round onwards
2. The men's singles at the 1977 US Open was best of 3 sets in the first 4 rounds, and then best of 5 sets from the quarter finals onwards
3. In 1979, the men's singles at the US Open went back to best of 5 sets in every round, as it was in 1974 and in the years prior to 1974.

In addition, three more things:
1. Tiebreaks at the US Opens of 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973 and 1974 were first to 5 points, and if it was 4-4 then both players would have a set point. Only in 1975 did US Open tiebreaks become first to 7 points with at least 2 points clear
2. The men's singles at the French Opens of 1973, 1974 and 1975 were best of 3 sets in the first 2 rounds, and then best of 5 sets from the third round onwards
3. Tiebreaks in the first 4 sets of the Wimbledon men's singles, and first 2 sets of Wimbledon women's singles, were at 8-8 in the set from 1971-1978 rather than 6-6. Tiebreaks weren't at 6-6 in the first 4 sets (first 2 sets for women) at Wimbledon until 1979
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Thanks so much for this.
Absolutely fascinating.
Most appreciated.
 
Hans-Jürgen Pohmann later worked as TV commentator, had his highlights with Becker and Graf, was pretty close with both. He beat Boris once in a match of football tennis. I remember him commentating on matches with Coria, who used a lot of stalling tricks. Pohmann knew them, the tricks, very well. He was known for his doubles play with Jürgen Fassbender, his mother Inge Pohmann was also a pretty good player in her day.
 
Mustard said:
Pohmann should have confronted him directly, like Tanner did in their 1974 US Open third round match.
Click to expand...

Tanner did it at the USO as well? They had a match at Palm Springs in '76 which ended up with Nastase being defaulted, but didn't know about Forest Hills.

Clark Graebner successfully confronted Nasty at the Rothmans Indoor in 1972 as well. And didn't Zeljko Franulovic toss Ilie into a locker in Paris one year? (Not sure about the details of that second anecdote...)

9Maq92a.png
 
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Mustard said:
The video is from the seniors' tour, but the history of the Agassi and Connors beef dates back to the 1988 US Open, before Agassi and Connors met in the quarter finals. Agassi reminded Connors that he hit with him on his 4th birthday in 1974, and Connors was in war soldier mode and basically told 18-year-old Agassi to go away, similar to what Connors did to 18-year-old McEnroe before their 1977 Wimbledon semi final. Agassi was annoyed, feeling that it was disrespectful, and Agassi then predicted that he would beat Connors 6-3, 6-3, 6-3. When Agassi went on to beat Connors in that 1988 US Open quarter final 6-2, 7-6, 6-1, Agassi said afterwards "still 9 games lost". Connors then said that Agassi had made a big mistake, because they would be meeting again. Sure enough, it was Agassi vs. Connors again in the 1989 US Open quarter final, and Agassi had a more difficult year in 1989 with the raised expectations from 1988 when Agassi had gotten as high as world number 3. Agassi beat Connors in their 1989 US Open quarter final 6-1, 4-6, 0-6, 6-3, 6-4, and some people thought it was obvious that Agassi had tanked the third set in order to finally win a match that went into a fifth set, which annoyed Connors no end.

Later, there was the whole praise that Agassi got for rising back up the rankings after having fallen to 141 in the world in November 1997. Connors blasted Agassi for falling that low in the rankings in the first place.

Also, didn't Connors once make a joke about having spent a lot of time in Vegas, and that he might have some kids there, and that Andre might even be one of them?
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Connors did make that joke about Vegas and Agassi. I remember it. No love lost there. I think especially on Connors' end.
 
Moose Malloy said:
interesting letter to the editor(it it worth remembering how vague and unclear injury timeout rules were - Waspting has even expressed confusion at they way injury timeouts were implemented in some 80s matches he watched.


MELVIN ROSENBERG Roslyn, L.I.

Pohmann, Not Nastase, Is Viewed as the Villain

To the Sports Editor:

As an avid tennis (and Ilie Nastase) fan, I was appalled, as were so many others, at the goings‐on at Forest Hills. However, I am more appalled at the complete lack of mention, let alone understanding and sensitivity, of the not‐so‐subtle, ugly and seemingly calculated manner in which Hans‐Jurgen Pohmann manipulated the already basically anti‐Nastase crowd, using them to beat Nastase when he knew that he alone could not. He almost succeeded.

The constant preening, once Pohmann knew that he'd won the crowd, degenerating into clenched‐fist exchanges with them on every point won, arms raised in victory over points won as early as the second set, and the final series of martyr‐like, heroic returns to the battlefield after the questionable “agony” of his leg injuries, combined to produce one of the ugliest displays of mob sentiment I have ever seen. Pohmann knew what he was doing, too.

Nastase usually begins a match with two strikes against him—his temper and personality, and an audience with built‐in hostility towards him. Consequently, in light of all of Pohmann's antics and those of the spectators, who, pray tell, is naive enough to expect Nastase to behave with Anglo‐Saxon sportsmanship?

www.nytimes.com

Who Was the Villain at Forest Hills? (Published 1976)

www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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There was indeed some "official support" for Nastase's complaints, as also published in the NYT:

www.nytimes.com

Nastase Angers Crowd While Beating Pohmann (Published 1976)

www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

"Later, Nastase's charge that the match should have been forfeited to him when Pohmann was unable to continue to play immediately was considered a justifiable one by Charles Hare, the tournament referee.​
​
"Yes, Nastase was absolutely correct in claiming a forfeit," Hare said. There was a stoppage of play when Pohmann did not immediately resume his position because of cramps, and that goes against the rule stating, 'play shall be continuous.'​
​
"But where the doctor appeared from, I have no idea. I have issued instructions to everyone that this is not to happen again. There is to be no aid given to players who have suffered from a natural loss of physical condition such as cramps."​


Of course, none of that justifies Nasty's conduct. Has there ever been another tennis match where the player offers a handshake at the end and the umpire refuses it? How badly do you need to behave for that to happen?
 
King_olaf_the_hairy said:
Tanner did it at the USO as well?
Click to expand...
Yes, at the 1974 US Open. Tanner got so angry with Nastase's constant stalling tactics on Tanner's service games that Tanner got angry and threatened to smash Nastase's head in with his racquet if he didn't stop. Tanner won the match from 2 sets down. Nastase avenged this two years later, the year of the Pohmann match, by beating Tanner in 5 sets.

King_olaf_the_hairy said:
They had a match at Palm Springs in '76 which ended up with Nastase being defaulted, but didn't know about Forest Hills.
Click to expand...
They certainly had feisty matches by the sounds of it. And Tanner was seen as a "good boy of tennis" in his playing days, but he obviously wasn't afraid to get rough if he felt that it was necessary.

King_olaf_the_hairy said:
Clark Graebner successfully confronted Nasty at the Rothmans Indoor in 1972 as well. And didn't Zeljko Franulovic toss Ilie into a locker in Paris one year? (Not sure about the details of that second anecdote...)

9Maq92a.png
Click to expand...
Ah yes. The Graebner confrontation with Nastase is more high profile.
 
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King_olaf_the_hairy said:
Of course, none of that justifies Nasty's conduct. Has there ever been another tennis match where the player offers a handshake at the end and the umpire refuses it? How badly do you need to behave for that to happen?
Click to expand...
I know that Agassi had a long spat with umpire Rudy Berger during the 1994 YEC semi final against Sampras, and that they continued cussing each other out after the match had ended. I don't recall if they actually shook hands despite that, but there was bad feeling on both sides.

It seems that an umpire once refused to shake Yulia Putintseva's hand after a match.

King_olaf_the_hairy said:
And didn't Zeljko Franulovic toss Ilie into a locker in Paris one year? (Not sure about the details of that second anecdote...)
Click to expand...
LOL :laughing:

I do recall hearing about Nastase being locked into a locker and his fellow players being slow to help Nastase out of his predicament.
 
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Mustard said:
I know that Agassi had a long spat with umpire Rudy Berger during the 1994 YEC semi final against Sampras, and that they continued cussing each other out after the match had ended. I don't recall if they actually shook hands despite that, but there was bad feeling on both sides.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember that. It's an easy check since it's on Youtube, at 1'47"05. Berger shakes Sampras' hand first, but Agassi doesn't offer his own hand, just jabs his Donnay at Rudy while continuing to argue. (Having said that, it was a lousy over-rule at a critical moment which kicked things off.)

And didn't Berger have an iffy over-rule against Andre in the 2000 AO SF against Sampras as well? Hmmm...


Mustard said:
It seems that an umpire once refused to shake Yulia Putintseva's hand after a match.
Click to expand...

Didn't know about that one, but not much of a shock given Putintseva's reputation. The Youtube video clip is only the very end of the match, so unfortunately offers no context for me.
 
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Talking about confrontation. Roger Taylor in 1969 knocked out Bob Hewitt in a Berlin Tournament in the locker room. Hewitt, always the angry man, was completely out cold. Roger was a former boxer with a perfect left hook. Looking back, it seems somewhat right, the Hewitt got some sort of punishment.
 
urban said:
Talking about confrontation. Roger Taylor in 1969 knocked out Bob Hewitt in a Berlin Tournament in the locker room. Hewitt, always the angry man, was completely out cold. Roger was a former boxer with a perfect left hook. Looking back, it seems somewhat right, the Hewitt got some sort of punishment.
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Great story.
 
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Just listened, today,to a podcast with Steve Denton. He got pretty close to going after Mcenroe a couple of times. Stemmed from incidents in a couple of doubles matches. He was fed up with Mcenroe's acting up and basically said I'll see you in the locker room. Came really close the first time. But never got to the point where he actually hit him.
 
Mustard said:
I know that Agassi had a long spat with umpire Rudy Berger during the 1994 YEC semi final against Sampras, and that they continued cussing each other out after the match had ended. I don't recall if they actually shook hands despite that, but there was bad feeling on both sides.

It seems that an umpire once refused to shake Yulia Putintseva's hand after a match.


LOL :laughing:

I do recall hearing about Nastase being locked into a locker and his fellow players being slow to help Nastase out of his predicament.
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Very slow, I imagine. Surprised he was permitted to sleep elsewhere that night!
 
The value of this brief clip from 1974, is you get a real good view of Billie Jean's serve, stroke production and footwork. The camera is always on her, and angle is perfect. See if you can notice anything, because I can learn from your insights.

 
I'm preparing a wee thing on Reddit for tomorrow's 40th anniversary of "Answer the QUESTION! THE QUESTION, JERK!" As I researched, I came across this wee video about Ken Farrar and his part in the defaulting of John McEnroe at the 1990 Australian Open. It's one of a series of blogs by his daughter Win:



Unfortunately, Win seems to do most of the talking, but it's nice to get these recollections from a non-player who was so intimately involved with the early days of Open tennis, and who had to put up with Mac, Connors, Nastase, and everyone else. (Farrar, of course, is front and centre in the famous pic of David Wheaton and Brad Gilbert squaring up to each other at the inaugural Grand Slam Cup.)
 
King_olaf_the_hairy said:
I'm preparing a wee thing on Reddit for tomorrow's 40th anniversary of "Answer the QUESTION! THE QUESTION, JERK!" As I researched, I came across this wee video about Ken Farrar and his part in the defaulting of John McEnroe at the 1990 Australian Open. It's one of a series of blogs by his daughter Win:



Unfortunately, Win seems to do most of the talking, but it's nice to get these recollections from a non-player who was so intimately involved with the early days of Open tennis, and who had to put up with Mac, Connors, Nastase, and everyone else. (Farrar, of course, is front and centre in the famous pic of David Wheaton and Brad Gilbert squaring up to each other at the inaugural Grand Slam Cup.)
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Unfortunately I had to give up because her voice is so annoying.
 
BTURNER said:
Are intentional running drop shots from the baseline a thing? I can come up with a couple of clips of those from the late 1980's.
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Haha, that reminded me of this shot from Rios, a lateral running stretched drop shot, 4:55. Again, a very rare executed shot.


I suppose you could also say the same thing about his exhibition like 360° return shot as well.
 
for people, who don't understand german well. The girl on traberts shoulder is hoads little daughter. Trabert says, that he himself and his wife are expecting his second child. Hoad says, he will travel back to Australia via Honkong, maybe he has some pro matches at Honkong. baden-baden was a main tennis centre in germany and residence the dtb (besides Hanover) in the pre open era, the federation cup was often held there, as well as vital davis cup ties. i think, that Gottfried von Cramm, who for a time was president of the dtb) was instrumental in inviting the kramer pros to german courts. baden baden also had one of the oldest tournaments, on the european continent since 1896, in the first years i think on grass, later on clay. it had a series of outstanding winners, like wilding, froitzheim, brugnon, von cramm, drobny with 5 titles, patty, santana, fraser, emerson, fletcher, bueno, smith and so on. it went defunct in 1966 and never made it to the open era.
 
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Interesting in these clips of the actual play on court, that Hoad is clearly the same height as Tony Trabert, who was listed as being 6' 1", and also Cooper, who was also listed as 6' 1".

Perhaps Hoad's listed height was taken when he was about 17 years old, with more growth to come.
 
urban said:
for people, who don't understand german well. The girl on traberts shoulder is hoads little daughter. Trabert says, that he himself and his wife are expecting his second child. Hoad says, he will travel back to Australia via Honkong, maybe he has some pro matches at Honkong. baden-baden was a main tennis centre in germany and residence the dtb (besides Hanover) in the pre open era, the federation cup was often held there, as well as vital davis cup ties. i think, that Gottfried von Cramm, who for a time was president of the dtb) was instrumental in inviting the kramer pros to german courts. baden baden also had one of the oldest tournaments, on the european continent since 1896, in the first years i think on grass, later on clay. it had a series of outstanding winners, like wilding, froitzheim, brugnon, von cramm, drobny with 5 titles, patty, santana, fraser, emerson, fletcher, bueno, smith and so on. it went defunct in 1966 and never made it to the open era.
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what had surprised me was the apparent attendance in Baden Baden. The stands looked packed! My understanding was that those pro tour events got a little sparse in the bleachers because it was hard to find sponsors for local television station commercials, but your post explains it didn't need much help with the local tennis culture well established. Any tournament today would be happy with those crowds.
 
urban said:
for people, who don't understand german well. The girl on traberts shoulder is hoads little daughter. Trabert says, that he himself and his wife are expecting his second child. Hoad says, he will travel back to Australia via Honkong, maybe he has some pro matches at Honkong. baden-baden was a main tennis centre in germany and residence the dtb (besides Hanover) in the pre open era, the federation cup was often held there, as well as vital davis cup ties. i think, that Gottfried von Cramm, who for a time was president of the dtb) was instrumental in inviting the kramer pros to german courts. baden baden also had one of the oldest tournaments, on the european continent since 1896, in the first years i think on grass, later on clay. it had a series of outstanding winners, like wilding, froitzheim, brugnon, von cramm, drobny with 5 titles, patty, santana, fraser, emerson, fletcher, bueno, smith and so on. it went defunct in 1966 and never made it to the open era.
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I'm going to The Lew Hoad Tennis Club in Mijas, Spain in a couple of weeks. We're going to a memorial for Peter Risdon, a good friend and Lew's best friend. The daughter you mention above will be there and I'll make her aware of the clip.
Thanks.
 
BTURNER said:
what had surprised me was the apparent attendance in Baden Baden. The stands looked packed! My understanding was that those pro tour events got a little sparse in the bleachers because it was hard to find sponsors for local television station commercials, but your post explains it didn't need much help with the local tennis culture well established. Any tournament today would be happy with those crowds.
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The success of the old pro tour in the years from 1957-1961 is not well understood today. There were excited crowds and a lot of money generated by the big names on the pro tour in those days.

It looks like this video has already been taken down, which sometimes happens.
 
Dan Lobb said:
Here is an interview with Ellsworth Vines in 1975, interesting observations on the changes in equipment.
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I really wish tennis followed baseball and stuck to limits on equipment. Stuck to wood. I'd even allow any strings you want, even poly. I do think tennis now would be more exciting if racquets were restricted to wood and an 80sq" headsize. Players would have to be much more creative in the way they approached the game and won points. Right now it's just brainless ball bashing with fitness and athleticism being 90% of the sport.
 
Thanks for the clips. I saw the match then on German tv, some days later than it was played. Seems, that at the begin of the 4th set, Laver gives Connors a lot of slower low slice balls in a mix with slower topspin forehands, contrary zo his own hard hitting style. A bit like Ashe later, but the slice works better on grass than on carpet. And i think, the heat got a bit to the 36-37 old Rocket, and he went more in to finish the points quickly, and gave Connors room for his great passing shots. It was very hot in the small indoor arena of Caesars Palace, and following Connors own early biography by Jim Burke, Jimbo was cramping badly shortly after te match, so that he could not walk anymore. Still, Lavers serve at the end is quite good, a lot of aces against a returner of Connors calibre. Interesting to see the Hollywood prominence in attendance and the refss and linesmen like Gonzalez, Schroeder and Bob Howe.
 
urban said:
Thanks for the clips. I saw the match then on German tv, some days later than it was played. Seems, that at the begin of the 4th set, Laver gives Connors a lot of slower low slice balls in a mix with slower topspin forehands, contrary zo his own hard hitting style. A bit like Ashe later, but the slice works better on grass than on carpet. And i think, the heat got a bit to the 36-37 old Rocket, and he went more in to finish the points quickly, and gave Connors room for his great passing shots. It was very hot in the small indoor arena of Caesars Palace, and following Connors own early biography by Jim Burke, Jimbo was cramping badly shortly after te match, so that he could not walk anymore. Still, Lavers serve at the end is quite good, a lot of aces against a returner of Connors calibre. Interesting to see the Hollywood prominence in attendance and the refss and linesmen like Gonzalez, Schroeder and Bob Howe.
Click to expand...
Yes, Laver was serving pretty big. I think Connors was also serving bigger than later on. Laver may well have been tired, but he did a great job coming up with shots with all those match points. Back in 1975, this match was a BIG deal.
 
NicoMK said:
I had completely forgotten this one, except the fact that Agassi won almost everything during the 1995 summer. Great play by both players, especially from Stefan.

The toilet break (or whatever) at 5 all in the third is highly questionable though.

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thank for this... it brings back memories of why I so loved Edberg.
 
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