Chess article comparing Anand to Federer.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by pc1, Aug 11, 2017 at 8:44 AM.

  1. jm1980

    jm1980 G.O.A.T.

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    Just waiting for JMac to become a nutter
     
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  2. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Wilander was actually a very crafty tennis player. I could see him playing chess well.
     
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  3. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    Keres maybe...what about Korchnoi? Korchnoi could beat ANYBODY...he just never got to be world champ either.
     
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  4. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    I play chess casually now, I was actually president of the chess club in college (not because I was the best really, others were better, but I was more consistent and had a better tournament record). Since graduating though I don't play...no one in my family plays and most of my friends don't like playing me.
     
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  5. Nadalgaenger

    Nadalgaenger Hall of Fame

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    Right. Wilander a smart, tactical player, but no transcendent genius. Anand is a very good chess player but no ATG or transcendent talent.
     
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  6. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Korchnoi was very consistently strong and he was a sort of a defensive counterpuncher. He almost beat Karpov in two matches.

    I'm trying to think of a strong attacking player. Hey, maybe Harry Nelson Pillbury who won the great 1895 Hastings Tournament and was a rival of Emmanuel Lasker.
     
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  7. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    Screw it...I don't care how shady it sounds I'm going with Polgar for Stan. She could play a mean marathon and her attacks were stellar, especially in blitz. She was someone who could beat a top guy anywhere and yet herself get beaten. There was one tournament that Anand dominated when he was world champ except for 1 loss....to Polgar. She scares the daylights out of anyone I think because they all knew she could beat them, especially if they slipped. I think of Stan as that guy.
     
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  8. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    How can others be better if you were more consistent with a better tournament record? I'm sure you were the best.

    I used to have some friends of mine come down to my office every Friday so I could analyze their games and we would play some 5 minute games. One of them was the second board on my High School team. The third board on my High School Team was thought of as the top chessplayer in my college although we never had a chess club. I was too busy entering Chess Tournaments in those days to care. He actually set up an intermural chess tournament at the school so he could push me to enter.
     
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  9. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    It's not shady at all. She's great player.
     
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  10. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Polgar is a favourite of mine. Her attacking style appeals to me because I play similarly. Obviously with nowhere near as much success however.
     
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  11. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    The Polgar sisters are such an amazing story.
     
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  12. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    I was consistent, my rating was steady where as theirs went up and down big time because they didn't focus all the time or really pay attention.

    That and I wasn't the strongest in all forms of chess, I am not great at blitz, others in yhe club could beat me at blitz often, but blitz tournaments weren't common and only done as a form of tiebreak
     
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  13. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    I'm afraid this will sound too cocky or overconfident, but if I'm honest I consider myself an above average chess player. I won 2 3rd place trophies in 9 appearances at the Canadian Chess Challenge, which is a national tournament comprising of school age players. So I played kids in the same grades as me from all across Canada.

    I play online pretty regularly now. I used to play on the World Chess Network (WCN) and then when they switched I played there for a bit. Now I actually play on chess.com almost daily and I've seen the article in the OP before. In school our time control was usually 30 minutes per player, but I don't really play any games that long on chess.com now. I keep to the 1 minute (really fast or "bullet" as it's called) or 5 minute (blitz) games.
     
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  14. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    I have a ton of respect for her. She lived for chess, and she wanted to prove that gender made no difference so much so she refused to play women's only events for most of her career (and hardly ever lost to other female players). She fought against a system stacked against her, and against players who didn't think she could compete (cough cough Kasparov), and proved she could. Her style is hyper aggressive and technically sound...she's amazing. If I could master her style I'd be proud.
     
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  15. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    What always amused me was that Judith's sister Susan was the Women's World Champion and Susan wasn't even the best woman player in the family!

    Judith was a great player to be stating the obvious.
     
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  16. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    It's not cocky if it's the truth.

    I have found I'm most stressed in chess tournaments than tennis competitions.

    I guess the physical exertion in tennis relieves my tension but if you make an error in a tournament game, you can't do anything except hope your opponent doesn't notice and continue to fight on if the mistake wasn't too bad!
     
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  17. Waspsting

    Waspsting Semi-Pro

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    I'd go with Bronstein, if I had to pick someone. Wawrinka's more a blacksmith than a chess player

    Hmm... career path wise, I'd say Anand is closest to Murray

    We don't know for sure where he stands as an ATG because GOAT group have thwarted him... theoritically, he could be top 5 all time. Rosewall is another possibility

    Such brazen arrogance:). Should I report you?
     
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  18. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Blitz is so different because you may play a totally different style. I used to play the Evans Gambit or the Danish Gambit a lot or the Smith-Morra. As black I did some weird stuff with the Pirc against e4.
     
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  19. sportmac

    sportmac Professional

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    Yep, it's 20 or more moves before they get out of the opening and drop the memorization and begin battle.
    The men's game is forehand cannons from everywhere.

    Both are done. The days of tennis being "chess on the run" are long gone.
     
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  20. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    I remember reading where Susan said that Judit wasn't necessarily the best player in the family, but she was the hardest worker. Judit herself said she studied hours a day...thats serious haha.

    And Judit no doubt would have been Woman's World Champion had she wanted to be, at the time Maia Chiburdanidze was the holder of the title, Judit had a higher rating, she just didn't want to play for it. I think she even said that they would have to offer her a lot of money to even get her to play, and she went YEARS without losing to a woman...until Hoi Yifan beat her. Yifan I think could be the one to challenge Judit in terms of best woman ever if she continues the way she is now.
     
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  21. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    I think where chess is not so much physical as it is mental, I don't see where women are at a disadvantage so I respect Polgar also. I mean with tennis or almost any other physical sport you can see the disadvantage, but I've known many women who I couldn't beat in a million years at chess. That's not to say I'd beat a world class woman at any sport because I'm not in the best shape myself, but I think you get the idea. There was one girl in particular who was a grade ahead of me and also a consistent fixture on the National team. We were rated around the same and I played her 9-10 times I'd say, but I never beat her once. I got one draw out of all our matches I think.

    I guess you could say it was kind of like tennis where match ups are concerned. I never liked the way she played against me.
     
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  22. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Six degrees of separation. Did you know Bobby Fischer stay at the Polgars I believe for about a year? They must have played a lot of chess. I'm sure Judith much have won a number of games from Fischer.
     
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  23. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    Yes I remember reading that. I also read that Polgar's father tried to arrange a public exhibition between Bobby and Judit and Bobby refused to do it....probably because he knew Judit could beat him.
     
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  24. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Certain styles annoy certain players. Korchnoi used to kill Tal. I think I read at one point it was something like 13 to 1 in Korchnoi's favor, not including draws.

    In physical sports like tennis it's an unfair advantage for a male to compete in a women's competition even if he is inferior to women. But I agree with you, there is no disadvantage imo in chess for women. It would be nice to see a woman at the top level as a World Championship contender in chess.
     
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  25. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    I agree, and I don't think that day is particularly far away. IMO, we'll have a woman as world champion ala Magnus Carlsen sooner rather than later.
     
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  26. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Yes. I'm awesome. :)
     
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  27. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    Polgar played for the men's championship, sadly she played probably the worst tournament of her career when she did.

    Yifan could do it. She seems genuinely invested. However her rating needs to massively improve to get there.
     
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  28. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    I hope so.
     
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  29. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    I had that happen in a provincial tournament (the tournament that allows you to go to Nationals) once. I think I prayed to God that he wouldn't see my mistake, but of course I couldn't give anything away with a reaction either. Luckily he missed my mistake and I won the game and the tournament. :)
     
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  30. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    The other thing about tennis is the nature of the game. If you are the clearly superior player in tennis you can up your game and overwhelm the other player even if you are done by a lot.

    In chess if you hang a piece any very good player can defeat a much stronger player. And of course we all can hang pieces because we are all human. There have been cases of Grandmasters missing mates in one!
     
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  31. sunny_cali

    sunny_cali Semi-Pro

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    BS. Anand is both an ATG and a transcendant talent. People tend to forget that Anand was India's first GM and he did it without a formal coach (all this in the pre-internet era). Indeed when he played Karpov in 1991 was when he employed Yusupov's services. There really is just one blemish -- his record against Kasparov.
     
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  32. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    As I've told you offline, my uncle used to beat me all the time at chess as a kid. When I finally challenged him to a game in my 20s, he said "I'm not playing you, I've got an undefeated record against you!" He never did play me again.

    Another former co-worker claimed he had never lost a chess game. I asked him how that was possible and he said that he just wiped all the pieces off the board if he was about to lose! So I played him online and mated him in like 10 moves! There went his undefeated record lol.
     
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  33. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    Will you hang a dang piece against me someday please! I actually thought you hung your knight in our current game until I realized that the compensation for your knight was an instant checkmate against me. :(
     
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  34. metsman

    metsman G.O.A.T.

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    so for all the chess people out there who is considered the greatest, kasparov, carlsen, casablanca, fischer are the guys I hear most often
     
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  35. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    That's satisfying to beat him so quickly.

    When I was young I had a friend who I always beat in chess. Finally he beat me and refused to ever play me again.
     
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  36. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Well I do have more time to analyze so the odds of a really bad mistake like hanging a piece is lower.
     
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  37. -NN-

    -NN- Legend

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    Morphy and Lasker have a lot of advocates. Karpov, albeit slightly overshadowed by Kasparov.
     
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  38. -NN-

    -NN- Legend

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    I only just saw that the topic of chess came up in one of Fed's post match interviews at the Canadian Open. He was tag-teaming with Ljubicic playing online. Apparently they've had some shockers in recent times - maybe one of their losses was to @Steve0904.
     
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  39. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Karpov felt if he played Fischer in 1975 that his game would have been raised beyond what Kasparov could have reached.

    Don't forget Alekhine had a lot of people who favored him as the greatest.
     
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  40. -NN-

    -NN- Legend

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    It might have given him a boost which would have delayed Kasparov's rise significantly. And then there's Fischer to consider - if he had kept playing through to the '80s and maybe even early '90s. Karpov's problem was that he wasn't as meticulous in his preparation as Kasparov and didn't check over things himself as much as Kasparov did. If he was worse than Garry, it was only barely.
     
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  41. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Perhaps. Karpov is of the opinion playing Fischer would have raised him to a level Kasparov couldn't match. Who knows?
     
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  42. Zara

    Zara Professional

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    You don't know how to play chess? That's it. I am putting you on the ignore list, Richard.
     
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  43. -NN-

    -NN- Legend

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    Main question for me is how it might have accelerated (or not) the evolution of chess theory. Kasparov might have had a higher base to reach to be truly competitive with Karpov in his early 20s in a WC match. Fischer "retiring" is a bit like Borg retiring - a whole load of huge what ifs!

    And yes, Alekhine should be on the shortlist. Every world champion is probably worthy for having a case made. There are so few of them... and it's the pinnacle.
     
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  44. 125downthemiddle

    125downthemiddle Legend

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    Another gem from Mr. Sinjin Cooper
     
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  45. Poisoned Slice

    Poisoned Slice G.O.A.T.

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  46. FedFosterWallace

    FedFosterWallace Legend

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    Most intense (and hilarious) thing I've been a part of, chess-wise, was one-second-per-move "lightning chess" back in the day. Add in the dial-up lag, and you've got a classic treat. The delay was so intense that you'd make like a dozen moves before it would register, and the board would be an absolute blur of pieces whirling around like a digital twister had struck the grid. The other guy I played a lot had the same deal, so these battles were priceless. :D
     
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  47. Steve0904

    Steve0904 G.O.A.T.

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    Haha. I don't think I played them. Unless Federer and Ljubicic have some screenname that tells nothing of their real identity, which is quite possible I guess. Maybe I beat Federer at something and I didn't know it. :eek:
     
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  48. rnitz

    rnitz New User

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    [​IMG]
    The man no one wanted to face across the chessboard.
     
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  49. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    They called it Fischer Fear.
     
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  50. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    PC1,

    Just moments ago, I was bemoaning the low level of discourse on this forum but voila, you arrive and post something lighthearted in your usual understated, intelligent manner. Thank you!
     
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