Chicago Jack, strings list questions?

[reflexace]

hi, this is a question for poster chicago jack; i found the list you posted with some numerical data on string stiffness,etc to be very interesting. i guess it's also worth it for us to consider how our own experiences match up with the numbers, because how something plays/feels can be quite subjective.
would you happen to have the data on 2 strings i'm using now, i.e signum pro poly plasma and gamma revelation; i'd be interested to see how they compare with the other ones on the list i have used before. and could you also add a basic syn gut and one nylon of choice to see how they look in numbers?

no worries if you have no data on any of the above. more importantly, can you make your list a sticky? thanks in advance.

 

[Midlife crisis]

I'm not Chicago Jack, but here is the 2005 string selector guide:

http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/issues/200509/200509stringselector.html

It does not list the Signum strings, but the Revelation is a fairly soft string with a resulting stringbed stiffness of 186 lb/in and probably a bit more tension loss than average, at just over 13 lbs with the test protocol (explained in the article).

 

[ChicagoJack]

Hi reflex ace

hi, this is a question for poster chicago jack; i found the list you posted with some numerical data on string stiffness,etc to be very interesting. i guess it's also worth it for us to consider how our own experiences match up with the numbers, because how something plays/feels can be quite subjective. would you happen to have the data on 2 strings i'm using now, i.e signum pro poly plasma and gamma revelation; i'd be interested to see how they compare with the other ones on the list i have used before. and could you also add a basic syn gut and one nylon of choice to see how they look in numbers? no worries if you have no data on any of the above. more importantly, can you make your list a sticky? thanks in advance.

Hi Reflex Ace,

1. Yes Midlife crisis is correct, the USRSA does not carry any information on Signum strings. That's kind of dissapointing as this is a brand of string that gets a lot of mention here. I can tell you that Iv'e had an offline email chat with the poster using the handle Jerry Seinfeld. I can you tell that I think he is a credible and sincere source of information regarding that brand. I've not played with the Gamma Revelation. Like to keep my comments limited to things I know well.


2. It's a nice thought, to post the list as a sticky, but I don't think it would be appropriate for a few reasons.

- The USRSA is far to controversial a source to post as a sticky, in my estimation. Many posters here (including myself) have pointed out some very large variances with racquet specs, if you compare the specs at TW, the USRSA, and the company who built them. Sort of leaves one wondering which is correct.

- The USRSA leaves out lots of good string, this makes it a little unfair to the companies not being profiled.

- My personal list, mentioned here is way too small, to be used for selecting individual string. I really only posted it as saying look... in general, all polys behave like this. Then all gut has these qualities as a group etc.

- Not being a cheerleader here but you can get a one month, web only membership for 9 dollars US if I am not mistaken. I do feel a little like I don't want to give away their store for free. I've noticed that the sister company, RSI magazine has it's articles without password protection. I guess they must not mind folks linking to it. I find many of those RSI articles straight out of google.


3.The term synthetic gut and nylon really are the same thing. All those strings btwn gut and poly are nylons if I am not mistaken.

Quote: "The term "synthetic gut" no longer carries much meaning. It does not mean that a string has a specific construction or playability characteristics like natural gut. It simply means the string is made of synthetic fibers. Most synthetic strings are constructed of nylon in a variety of ways to modify playability and durability. Some claim to duplicate natural gut's resilience (providing maximum power and feel) at a fraction of the cost."
--USRSA Supplemental Study Guide

Quote: "Nylon - synthetic gut or nylon? Truth be told, synthetic gut is nylon. In fact, most of today’s “performance synthetics” are constructed of nylon, albeit a higher grade than basic nylon string. Today’s manufacturing processes produce nylon strings (or synthetic gut, if you insist) that provide a good combination of playability and durability. In the old days (wood racquet era), any self-respecting player used natural gut. Nylon was so bad that only beginners used the stuff. Today, 98% of non-professional players use nylon strings. It’s that much better."
-Tennis Warehouse Learning Center

4. Happy to help anybody if I can, just want to add theres lots of folks here know way more about string than I do. There are even a few MRT's here, Master Racquet Techicians, and thats kind of a big deal. Even in a big metro area like Chicago, MRTs are few and far btwn. Gaines Hillix and David Pavlich come to mind, I'm sure there a others but I'm still relatively new to this ranch new myself.

Best Regards, and take care
-Jack

 

[bluegrasser]

Q for ChicagoJack: If my 14 yr old wants to hit with the LM Prestige, what string would give him the most power, and tension to increase sweetspot, as he's not a real big/strong player.

 

[ChicagoJack]

Q for ChicagoJack: If my 14 yr old wants to hit with the LM Prestige, what string would give him the most power, and tension to increase sweetspot, as he's not a real big/strong player.

Hey Bluegrasser -

1. The common concensus is that natural gut will give you the most power, and It's very clear that natural gut outperforms just about everything else in terms of maintaining tension. Is natural gut appropriate for a 14 year old? Guess that that depends on the 14 year old. There is some decent gut to be had to be had in the 20-25 dollar range nowadays. Klip Legend and Babolat Tonic are the first two that come to mind.

2. In terms of what is right for the LM Prestige, I've tried all sorts of stuff in that frame. IMO, A full poly job works well under a few conditions. A- You ask for a pull around 55-58 lb. It will settle in after a few hits to a nice baseline setup that's not to harsh. B- You don't come to the net very often. This is of course, just my own opinion. I'm sure there's lots of folks who disagree, but a full poly setup just feels dead and slippery to me at net, just does not grab the ball the same way it does from the baseline. I think the magic with this material shows up in the big swings, not the little ones. C-You dont have any shoulder or TE issues. In a stiff LW frame like the PD yer askin for trouble. In a heavier, far more flexible frame like the LM prestige, I think you could make a case for at least trying it cautiously.

- Since you've mentioned your son needs something oriented towards helping out with power, full poly is not really going to address that concern.

3. Technifiber X1 Biphase 16 works well at a tight 58, I'm saying it this way because intitial tension pull is really important with this string. If its strung too loose to begin with, then its moving around on you right from the get go, and you are not going to like it. I dont string myself and have noticed asking for 58 can vary quite a bit from shop to shop. If you've got a stringer who tends to string em a little loose, then ask for the max rec tension on this frame which is 60. X1 is a very comfy string ( another reason you can string it tight) and will hold tension very well right up until breakage. When that breakage point will occur for your 14 YO is hard to say. I get on average, 1.5 to 2 weeks, or about 15-20 hours until breakage. My old doubles partner played with the 17g and would get about 15-17 hours out of that. He was a very hard serving, heavy topspin kind of player though. Current users that are looking to switch from this string usually mention the durability/price issue as the main factor driving the switch.
http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/issues/200408/tecnifibre_x-one_biphase.html

4. I was loving the two Klip Gut hybrids, Adrenaline and X-Plosive. Very good all court strings, both feel really good at net, nice crisp pocket feel. Can't speak to the durabilty though. I'm sidelined these days doing some nagging injury rehab. I have noticed those who are unimpressed with these two, seem to be using full gut set ups.
http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/issues/200411/klip_x-plosive.html

5. Off topic question for you - I'm a big Gillian Welch fan, I love her stuff with those tight harmonies and that olde tyme mandoline and banjo driven "high lonesome sound". Do you have any suggestions to expand my limited horizons here? Bill Monroe-ish?

Best Regards,
-Jack

 

[Midlife crisis]

If my 14 yr old wants to hit with the LM Prestige, what string would give him the most power, and tension to increase sweetspot, as he's not a real big/strong player.

Why would your 14 year old, who is not a big or strong player, want to hit with the LM Prestige? Do you want him to hit with it, or does he really want to hit with it?

I've got my 12 year old son, who IS a big a burly kid (5'2" and 125 pounds and who lifts weights in the gym) on about a 10 ounce, 105 sq. in. racket. It helps greatly because at this point, he doesn't yet have the strength to use a 12 ounce racket and still make a decent swing on the ball when he's badly positioned or on the dead run. He also gets a lot more balls in play and still has developed really good stroke mechanics, so am I missing the boat on why a kid needs to use a heavy and small racket?

 

[Flatspin]

I agree .... the LM is a handful for a skilled adult player.

 

[reflexace]

midlife crisis, thanks for the list. it's about as useful a list you can get for numerical data on strings!

chicago jack, thanks for taking the time to reply. apologies for my late reply, have been caught up with work.

first, a few things to reply:

1. with regards to signum, well it is an interesting string. i was introduced to this string by a friend before it became well known, and thought it performed well, and was relatively soft for it's family of string.

2. i understand perfectly your points above. i think it's very thoughtful and i appreciate your principle-centred approach to things like this.

3. re: syn gut/nylon, i think i kind of typed without thinking. i guess what i meant was the string families within the price range of $3-4 (basic strings) and the $2 type strings on the lower end. i guess whatever thoughts i had about these strings are not very relevant due to something i'll elaborate on further in this post.

4. yes, Gaines, David and a few others are indeed a treasure to this board, and it's great to be able to have their wisdom here.

on to some other thoughts i've had about strings and the numbers on string stiffness, etc.
firstly, while the numbers are useful as a base value, they don't tell about the dynamic properties of the strings with repeated use and over time.
i would tend to think that the time the string maintains it's properties (i.e 'not go dead') is equally important a characteristic, especially for those who don't restring every day.
from my experience with many cheaper strings, the main problem is that they don't keep their playability at all and go 'dead' very fast. for me personally, meanwhile, i don't mind tension loss at all, although i know it bothers some people; i'm aware the tension is different, but i think the effects are more with 'feel' more than actual performance. however, i think dead strings play really differently

the reason why i asked about the numbers was that nowdays with gear, i think more in terms of health and cost. i want to play until i'm 80! if something is actually less stiff quantitatively, it's probably a good place to start, and then i can compare to fow it feels by experience. that's also why i was intersted to see how 'soft' signum plasma was relative to other strings? the 'softest' string i've used according to that list is ashaway dynamite 16. i guess i would like a balance of a soft playing string that can last the longest to save on stringing costs. i string low nowdays (mid 40 lbs, moving towards low 40lbs), with no loss in performace. i think a lot of things are about what you get used to.

some questions:
what do you think the relationship is between the stiffness of the same string at different tensions? (trying to compare apples to apples, so eg technifibre 515 at 60 lbs vs same string at 44 lbs?)
would you recommend any string to fulfill the above criteria of health+cost? (not natural gut due to weather)

this post is getting long, so i should stop here. best wishes to you too.
~)