China Shenanigans: If this does not make the ATP/WTA to make changes, nothing will

What is goin on?

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Lleytonstation

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
What a fiasco. Absolute disasterclass all around. So many major incidents on and off the court. The players dont want to be there, fans seem to not care either as many stadiums completely empty.

Either the players are lashing out or it is time to move tennis out of China. Either way, this whole week has been an embarrassment for tennis and China.

Like I said before, just end the tour after USO except for exhos and 250's and below.

Kids-have-a-lot-of-energy.gif
 
Lleytonstation said:
What a fiasco. Absolute disasterclass all around. So many major incidents on and off the court. The players dont want to be there, fans seem to not care either as many stadiums completely empty.

Either the players are lashing out or it is time to move tennis out of China. Either way, this whole week has been an embarrassment for tennis and China.

Like I said before, just end the tour after USO except for exhos and 250's and below.

Kids-have-a-lot-of-energy.gif
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I was going to start a thread about this but figured it would get dropped. I agree man. It's actually sad how pathetic these tournaments are. The whole thing is a joke.
 
Lleytonstation said:
Probably will, not sure why though. Perfectly fine topic and should be discussed here.
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I try and tune these tournaments in. Most of the time it barely feels like an actual tennis tournament. It's like a post apocalyptic atmosphere with a Cold War hanging over them. No one is there. The players all look miserable. The interviews are awful. It's literally embarrassing for the sport.
 
d-quik said:
Like which ones?
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Worst thing that's happened that could be blamed on China was a fan tripping Dimitrov. Other than that, you had temper tantrums from Zverev (what else is new) and Tiafoe, and Badosa making a racist joke.

OP's objection is obviously politically motivated.
 
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The ball kids are horrible. Players practically have to beg them to toss them a ball. I've noticed this in the men's and women's matches. No energy from the 75 people in the stands. Why are the pros playing there?
 
Bill Lobsalot said:
The ball kids are horrible. Players practically have to beg them to toss them a ball. I've noticed this in the men's and women's matches. No energy from the 75 people in the stands. Why are the pros playing there?
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Like I said the entire thing is a joke. No one is there. Someone tries to trip dimitrov. Some lady tennis player got in trouble for saying she was in wuhan where the virus started they treated her like garbage. Now some other lady is in trouble for making Chinese eyes. Players have tantrums on the court. There are 50 people in the stands. Like these are suppose to be big tournaments? They may as well play in a morgue.
 
jm1980 said:
Worst thing that's happened that could be blamed on China was a fan tripping Dimitrov. Other than that, you had temper tantrums from Zverev (what else is new) and Tiafoe, and Badosa making a racist joke.

OP's objection is obviously politically motivated.
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lol, no.

I am not political. I do however have a motivation to end the season after USO. I have zero interest in anything after USO except Basel.

Let the players rest up. Clearly they need the rest as they are not handling their selves well.
 
Bartelby said:
I thought the final was one of the highlights of the season, so one can only presume this is a political thread.
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You guys are laughable.

This has ZERO to do with Asia or China on any political reasoning. Now, I do think we are trying to force it, as the fans didn't really pack the stadium.

You guys might be into all that political waste, but not me.
 
Fans stay away from events for all sorts of reasons, but you and your friends try to hide in vain the political nature of your critique.

Lleytonstation said:
You guys are laughable.

This has ZERO to do with Asia or China on any political reasoning. Now, I do think we are trying to force it, as the fans didn't really pack the stadium.

You guys might be into all that political waste, but not me.
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Let’s be honest here, tennis tournaments in China were part of an organised government effort to bring international events to the country to prove the new status of China as a world leader. Like many other similar efforts, it seems to have worked for a while until People started to lose interest. It’s also the same case about western fashion and jewellery brand names that are closing down everywhere in China, after a short period of high success. The honeymoon period is over.
 
This is true, but all tournaments are there to showcase a city and a country. In a small country like Australia, this is particularly obvious.

For a while, the whole point was to sell Melbourne, Australia as a gateway to the Asia/Pacific region, but that honeymoon period is over.

Arak said:
Let’s be honest here, tennis tournaments in China were part of an organised government effort to bring international events to the country to prove the new status of China as a world leader. Like many other similar efforts, it seems to have worked for a while until People started to lose interest. It’s also the same case about western fashion and jewellery brand names that are closing down everywhere in China, after a short period of high success. The honeymoon period is over.
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I think it's pathetic frankly. BUT! If the it makes the ATP/WTA money and China wants to pay so be it. It looks like a garbage product. Kind of sad to be honest.

Long term is this in the ATP/WTAs interest? Only they know I suppose. I have always viewed it as well someone is as long as people are making money they will stay. And not sure where else they could go this time of year to generate interest. But doesn't take away that the whole thing looks like crap.
 
Arak said:
It’s also the same case about western fashion and jewellery brand names that are closing down everywhere in China, after a short period of high success. The honeymoon period is over.
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The sources where you get your news and form your opinions on different countries around the world is very reliable.
 
The crowds at Beijing seemed strong. Shanghai seems weak not sure why. Possibly the public holidays? I watched what the vlog the other day and was suprised how much support Kasatkina got. There's definitely many tennis fans there.

insideguy said:
Long term is this in the ATP/WTAs interest? Only they know I suppose. I have always viewed it as well someone is as long as people are making money they will stay.
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They have 1.5B population and have the #1 or #2 biggest economy. It's in the best interest of players, major brands, and ATP/WTA to have tennis tournaments in China.
 
Western fashion and jewellery is a bigger and more expensive scam than putting on rather cheap Chinese tennis tournaments.

in any event, the luxury downturn might be due to a temporary economic problem or maybe their rejection is part of the global trade war.
 
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jonafern said:
The crowds at Beijing seemed strong. Shanghai seems weak not sure why. Possibly the public holidays? I watched what the vlog the other day and was suprised how much support Kasatkina got. There's definitely many tennis fans there.


They have 1.5B population and have the #1 or #2 biggest economy. It's in the best interest of players, major brands, and ATP/WTA to have tennis tournaments in China.
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Like I said the people who run the ATP/WTA obviously think this benefits them long term. I agree with ya. I mean they wouldn't be doing this if they thought it didnt.

However all I am saying is the atmosphere at least to me looks awful. Now it's possible it just comes across like that on TV. I find it interesting that the ATP/WTA view this presentation as acceptable. It's sort of funny because there is a similar thread on this board from 2009! LOL so it doesn't seem like much has changed.
 
Without China you guys would not even have iPhones, Teslas, tennis racquets and tennis apparels. Tennis Warehouse would not even exist.
 
insideguy said:
Like I said the people who run the ATP/WTA obviously think this benefits them long term. I agree with ya. I mean they wouldn't be doing this if they thought it didnt.

However all I am saying is the atmosphere at least to me looks awful. Now it's possible it just comes across like that on TV. I find it interesting that the ATP/WTA view this presentation as acceptable. It's sort of funny because there is a similar thread on this board from 2009! LOL so it doesn't seem like much has changed.
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I guess they could pay a few USO fans to fly over and liven things up. Or fly over a few drunk Aussies

If “awful atmosphere” means they are quiet and respectful, I think that’s a positive. Though I know the Zoomers don’t like it. Maybe have Snoop Dog give the commentary?
 
tennis3 said:
I guess they could pay a few USO fans to fly over and liven things up. Or fly over a few drunk Aussies
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I wonder what it cost to go to one of these tournaments over there? Maybe they should just give out free tickets or something. I dont know. To me 80 percent of these matches looks like covid is still going on.
 
insideguy said:
I wonder what it cost to go to one of these tournaments over there? Maybe they should just give out free tickets or something. I dont know. To me 80 percent of these matches looks like covid is still going on.
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Free tickets and free Honey Deuce could solve the problem
 
Somewhat similar to golf. Season way too long, viewer interest is lost after the last major of the year.
Plus they have the breakaway LIV tour taking some of their top talent away.

I have always felt that sports should be seasonal- not these year round calendars - it just gets all blurred after some point.
 
At a higher price if only because the supply chains would have to be rerouted.

The prices of tennis products have already increased significantly in price.

insideguy said:
Oh please. They would find somewhere else to make them. How long you been alive?
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vokazu said:
Really? So why are the Wilson racquets at the shops are made in China lol?
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Cheap labor. These companies will just find cheap labor somewhere else. Dude this has been going on since the beginning of time. A companies primary goal is to make profit. How do they do that? Outsource labor if they can. Apple, Tesla ect are American companies. I mean we have Japanese and German auto companies in the states? Why? Because they can build and sell their product cheaper in the states than to do it overseas and ship it.
 
Bisquick said:
Somewhat similar to golf. Season way too long, viewer interest is lost after the last major of the year.
Plus they have the breakaway LIV tour taking some of their top talent away.

I have always felt that sports should be seasonal- not these year round calendars - it just gets all blurred after some point.
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Yea I agree. All American team sports have at least 3 months off. With the NFL I think it's around 5 months. Same with MLB. These players are all like rock stars just grinding through a 90 date tour and they are on show number 85. Generally you dont want to see a concert on show number 85.
 
USO is worse. They caused Bouchard to have concussion after slipping on the locker room floor covered in cleaning solution. They also did not have a stretcher to carry an injured player out of the court.
 
insideguy said:
Cheap labor. These companies will just find cheap labor somewhere else. Dude this has been going on since the beginning of time. A companies primary goal is to make profit. How do they do that? Outsource labor if they can. Apple, Tesla ect are American companies. I mean we have Japanese and German auto companies in the states? Why? Because they can build and sell their product cheaper in the states than to do it overseas and ship it.
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So, we need China after all.

You guys are just hating China for no reason. It's the umpires and the players who were losing their mind, not China. If they don't like it in Shanghai or Beijing, DON'T COME. Simple.
 
insideguy said:
Like I said the people who run the ATP/WTA obviously think this benefits them long term. I agree with ya. I mean they wouldn't be doing this if they thought it didnt.

However all I am saying is the atmosphere at least to me looks awful. Now it's possible it just comes across like that on TV. I find it interesting that the ATP/WTA view this presentation as acceptable. It's sort of funny because there is a similar thread on this board from 2009! LOL so it doesn't seem like much has changed.
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I mran, if this atmosphere and lack of fans is unacceptable, then you’d probably be in favor of basically scraping the WTA and WNBA altogether. They may get fans at some matches and they got the Caitlin boost this year, but most of the time there’s about 12 fans in the stands.
 
vokazu said:
So, we need China after all.

You guys are just hating China for no reason. It's the umpires and the players who were losing their mind, not China.
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Im not hating on China. Im saying their tournaments look like garbage. They all look like a midseason baseball game after a 4 hour rain delay and all the fans went home.
 
vokazu said:
So, we need China after all.

You guys are just hating China for no reason. It's the umpires and the players who were losing their mind, not China. If they don't like it in Shanghai or Beijing, DON'T COME. Simple.
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Loyalty to the Communist Party is encouraged over the last few decades.

People are losing hope and their ambition.
 
tennis3 said:
I mran, if this atmosphere and lack of fans is unacceptable, then you’d probably be in favor of basically scraping the WTA and WNBA altogether. They may get fans at some matches and they got the Caitlin boost this year, but most of the time there’s about 12 fans in the stands.
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Heck probably. To me as a fan I turn the channel when two guys or two ladies are playing in front of 100 people. I have heard WNBA attendance is much better this year. I have no idea about the WTA. But to me these tournaments are literally in cities that are as big if not bigger than NYC. And it looks like they are playing in Lincoln Nebraska.
 
insideguy said:
Yea I think you're on to something.
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Even people who are normally even tempered get cranky when they are tired. I can't help wondering what it would have been like to have arrived in Shanghai a week later with some time to rest and perhaps do a bit of sight seeing. I remember years ago that Chris Evert said she never actually got to see places like Paris while she was competing because there was no time.
 
insideguy said:
Heck probably. To me as a fan I turn the channel when two guys or two ladies are playing in front of 100 people. I have heard WNBA attendance is much better this year. I have no idea about the WTA. But to me these tournaments are literally in cities that are as big if not bigger than NYC. And it looks like they are playing in Lincoln Nebraska.
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I will correct my own post. These cities, Wuhan, Shanghai, Beijing are all technically bigger than New York City. Considerably bigger. And It looks like they are playing in Cleveland Ohio.
 
Gary Duane said:
Even people who are normally even tempered get cranky when they are tired. I can't help wondering what it would have been like to have arrived in Shanghai a week later with some time to rest and perhaps do a bit of sight seeing. I remember years ago that Chris Evert said she never actually got to see places like Paris while she was competing because there was no time.
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I mean as a player you get yourself over there and you play in front of no one. It's like hunger games. No wonder like you said everyone is grumpy.
 
vokazu said:
Really? So why are the Wilson racquets at the shops and iPhones are made in China lol?
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Because it’s much cheaper to make stuff over there due to China’s terrible working conditions and sweatshops. If manufacturing was moved elsewhere those things you just mentioned would still be made. Chances are they’d be more expensive, but we’d still have iPhones, Teslas, and tennis racquets lol.
 
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