China Shenanigans: If this does not make the ATP/WTA to make changes, nothing will

[insideguy]

I would say let us take a look and compare. I know IW, Cinci, Montreal, and Toronto never have tons of empty seats for the men. Those are the only ones I have been to, but all the others, except maybe Paris seem to fill the stadiums decently well. So, why is this not the case here? By the way, MLB is a terrible comparison considering they play 81 home games and the A's literally had no one coming and lost their teams. Tampa is another team that people think having no fans at their games is a problem.

But this is not the only problem as I have said over and over again. Combine this with the players attitudes and the lack of rest they receive, as well as TV ratings, this does not seem to be working.

For me, and it seems many others, it is not working as a consumer point of view. The players do not seem to be enjoying it much either.

Bingo.

 

[weakera]

Because it’s much cheaper to make stuff over there due to China’s terrible working conditions and sweatshops. If manufacturing was moved elsewhere those things you just mentioned would still be made. Chances are they’d be more expensive, but we’d still have iPhones, Teslas, and tennis racquets lol.

Well the Teslas we see on the road in the United States are in fact manufactured in the USA, to be fair.

 

[chjtennis]

Money rules. India tried something similar with some sports, and now Saudis are trying to do the same - they are poaching big names in soccer away from Europe, they have taken Boxing away from US and UK, and now they want tennis as well. Pro sports need revenue, so I don't think anyone can stop that.

 

[Bisquick]

Well the Teslas we see on the road in the United States are in fact manufactured in the USA, to be fair.

Gigafactory in Shanghai also manufactures a bunch of them - for trade reasons n to play nice - they don’t bring them Teslas into the USA.

 

[toby55555]

The empty seats certainly made for a poor atmosphere. Give London or any major UK city a Masters 1000 in October and guaranteed it would be packed out with enthusiastic fans.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Because it’s much cheaper to make stuff over there due to China’s terrible working conditions and sweatshops. If manufacturing was moved elsewhere those things you just mentioned would still be made. Chances are they’d be more expensive, but we’d still have iPhones, Teslas, and tennis racquets lol.

Well the Teslas we see on the road in the United States are in fact manufactured in the USA, to be fair.

I know here, and likely the same in the USA, these companies need to accept less profit margin. Of course they wont. But it would bring in more jobs for the country if you hired locally. These jobs that people say we wouldn't do is simply not true, as we used to do these very jobs, but now we pay under the table wages to those that will accept them for various reasons.

But since these companies do not accept a lower profit margin, they will either increase consumer cost or continue hiring overseas or under the table wages. The funny thing is, if they hired more domestically, the economy would actually do better, and their profits would do better in return.

 

[weakera]

I know here, and likely the same in the USA, these companies need to accept less profit margin. Of course they wont. But it would bring in more jobs for the country if you hired locally. These jobs that people say we wouldn't do is simply not true, as we used to do these very jobs, but now we pay under the table wages to those that will accept them for various reasons.

But since these companies do not accept a lower profit margin, they will either increase consumer cost or continue hiring overseas or under the table wages. The funny thing is, if they hired more domestically, the economy would actually do better, and their profits would do better in return.

This stuff needs to be legislated just like food companies shouldn't be allowed to use toxic ingredients just because it saves them money.

 

[Ryebread]

There are maybe 20-40 fans in attendance at the match on tennis channel now, in Japan.
what’s going on?

 

[jm1980]

I know here, and likely the same in the USA, these companies need to accept less profit margin. Of course they wont. But it would bring in more jobs for the country if you hired locally. These jobs that people say we wouldn't do is simply not true, as we used to do these very jobs, but now we pay under the table wages to those that will accept them for various reasons.

But since these companies do not accept a lower profit margin, they will either increase consumer cost or continue hiring overseas or under the table wages. The funny thing is, if they hired more domestically, the economy would actually do better, and their profits would do better in return.

One of the worst problems with my career is the amount of jobs that get outsourced to workers overseas. The beancounters think that since you can hire 5-10 engineers overseas for what you'd pay one US-based engineer, then it's a great idea.

Only problem is the work delivered is almost always substandard and has to be redone. So it actually is horrible for productivity. It's very frustrating and it's not like there's a shortage of qualified engineers here. But that's capitalism for ya

 

[Bartelby]

It's doubtful if China will keep on propping up the ATP/WTA end-of-season tournaments much longer. Steve Simon showed them that this was a thankless task.

 

[sportsfan1]

Move one or more tournament to another country in Asia or Central/South America to have more people watching.

 

[Bartelby]

You have to pay to put tournaments on and China has the deepest pockets. And if tennis takes hold in China, then that's a big market of newly affluent people.

Move one or more tournament to another country in Asia or Central/South America to have more people watching.

 

[pasta]

China's pockets might be getting less deep ...

 

[Bartelby]

... the Chinese economy would have to fall catastrophically not to be able to afford tennis.

 

[Bill Lobsalot]

There are maybe 20-40 fans in attendance at the match on tennis channel now, in Japan.
what’s going on?

Agreed. Even with a Japanese player on court the stands are nearly empty.

 

[Ryebread]

sad for the players, sponsors, tournament folks!

 

[Bartelby]

Given how baseball took over, tennis is never happening in Japan.

Agreed. Even with a Japanese player on court the stands are nearly empty.

 

[pasta]

China might not want tennis, it might want to give it up without war ...

 

[Rosstour]

Let’s be honest here, tennis tournaments in China were part of an organised government effort to bring international events to the country to prove the new status of China as a world leader. Like many other similar efforts, it seems to have worked for a while until People started to lose interest. It’s also the same case about western fashion and jewellery brand names that are closing down everywhere in China, after a short period of high success. The honeymoon period is over.

Can you say more about the Western brands? Why are they not finding as much success? Is it a Chinese economic problem?

 

[socallefty]

At what point should ATP tennis stop trying to make tennis popular in East Asian countries like Japan/China where the tournaments are always sparsely attended and hold them in other regions like India, Latin America etc. where there seems to be more fan interest?

 

[Arak]

Can you say more about the Western brands? Why are they not finding as much success? Is it a Chinese economic problem?

I think it’s a complex issue. During the last few years, there was a rush of western brands working on opening flagship stores in Chinese main cities. This actually diluted the image by making the product too accessible for a wider clientele. Many brands have actually cancelled their plans for new stores while in advanced stages, incurring them and their local partners big losses in the process. On top of that, the Chinese government policies seem to have changed in favour of supporting local brands and discouraging imports by placing high taxes and complicating the import processes. Also, as you mentioned, the average Chinese do not have access anymore to the same amounts of cash they used to enjoy. The government has fixed the loopholes that allowed that to happen, so basically the Chinese are back to earth. There was an article on cnn recently that indicated a new trend in China for buying excellent counterfeit goods for a fraction of the price. These almost exact copies are impossible to tell from the real ones and in some cases, made at the same factories as the originals.

 

[Bartelby]

China used to buy one billion dollars worth of French brandy and then the EU put tariffs on their EVs. They now won't be buying French brandy. And a lot more European goods will be blackballed.

The luxury European goods will be the first to go as they are not essential and there is plenty of brandy made elsewhere, including Australia, which they can buy.

I think it’s a complex issue. During the last few years, there was a rush of western brands working on opening flagship stores in Chinese main cities. This actually diluted the image by making the product too accessible for a wider clientele. Many brands have actually cancelled their plans for new stores while in advanced stages, incurring them and their local partners big losses in the process. On top of that, the Chinese government policies seem to have changed in favour of supporting local brands and discouraging imports by placing high taxes and complicating the import processes. Also, as you mentioned, the average Chinese do not have access anymore to the same amounts of cash they used to enjoy. The government has fixed the loopholes that allowed that to happen, so basically the Chinese are back to earth. There was an article on cnn recently that indicated a new trend in China for buying excellent counterfeit goods for a fraction of the price. These almost exact copies are impossible to tell from the real ones and in some cases, made at the same factories as the originals.

 

[Lleytonstation]

At what point should ATP tennis stop trying to make tennis popular in East Asian countries like Japan/China where the tournaments are always sparsely attended and hold them in other regions like India, Latin America etc. where there seems to be more fan interest?

I would love to see those tourneys moved to India or South America. That would be exciting.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Heck, give it to South Africa.

 

[Bartelby]

They don't give away anything. You have to spend money on the venue and pay a lot for the franchise. It's a loss leader for China.

 

[Rosstour]

I would love to see those tourneys moved to India or South America. That would be exciting.

Heck, give it to South Africa.

Infrastructure, safety.

I have to think that this is part of why the players are so testy. The stadiums and courts are very nice but you get the feeling that the logistics are wearing on the players. The Chinese are still relatively new to all this. And India would be worse.

 

[Arak]

China used to buy one billion dollars worth of French brandy and then the EU put tariffs on their EVs. They now won't be buying French brandy. And a lot more European goods will be blackballed.

The luxury European goods will be the first to go as they are not essential and there is plenty of brandy made elsewhere, including Australia, which they can buy.

China has always had high import taxes on consumer and luxury goods. This is a false problem. When the west imposed higher taxes on Chinese exports, it was never to the same extent as the Chinese taxes, but still they retaliated with even higher taxes. China follows a bully model in this respect. You can’t win with them. I will tax your products but you can’t tax my products, and if you do, I will punish you.

 

[Bartelby]

Australia is doing quite well now that we have a government that doesn't abuse Beijing. If Europe wants to go down the economic gurgler, then following the American tariff path is as good an idea as any.

China has always had high import taxes on consumer and luxury goods. This is a false problem. When the west imposed higher taxes on Chinese exports, it was never to the same extent as the Chinese taxes, but still they retaliated with even higher taxes. China follows a bully model in this respect. You can’t win with them. I will tax your products but you can’t tax my products, and if you do, I will punish you.

 

[adil1972]

The 6 players with most WTA Finals appearances: Martina Navratilova with 21, Steffi Graf joint-second

https://www.tennis365.com/facts-stats/players-with-most-wta-finals-appearances