Chris Chase names his top 10 women's tennis player of all time

vortex1

Banned
LMAO ! henin's BH is LIGHT years better than graf's ... Even a casual observer of the WTA like me can see that

He's just a Henin hater, he thinks Graf would double bagel her on any surface... LOL. I could name 4-5 players in 2000's who would deny Graf slams. She only had one true rival and that was gone after Seles got stabbed. Graf played in mug era unlike Henin, if anything Graf is overrated as hell, most of her slams have asterisk next to them.
 

davey25

Banned
He's just a Henin hater, he thinks Graf would double bagel her on any surface... LOL. I could name 4-5 players in 2000's who would deny Graf slams.

ROTFL make up your own freaking mind clown:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=4869470#post4869470

That guy is an idiot. Prime Graf would crush Serena on any surface and double bagel her on clay.


Oh let me guess what you are going to respond with now. You are going to say Henin, Jankovic, Wozniacki, Bartoli, and Azarenka would all regularlybeat Graf, but Graf would crush Serena in every match and double bagel her on clay.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
He's just a Henin hater, he thinks Graf would double bagel her on any surface... LOL. I could name 4-5 players in 2000's who would deny Graf slams. She only had one true rival and that was gone after Seles got stabbed. Graf played in mug era unlike Henin, if anything Graf is overrated as hell, most of her slams have asterisk next to them.

now, you are on the opposite end of the spectrum ...

graf was already great even before seles burst into the scene ...
 

davey25

Banned
He's just a Henin hater

and how many players are you are a hater of:

I hate Federer's arrogance. He thinks he's GOAT because he beat a no-name clown at FO last year when the real champion was injured.

I hope Rafa wins USO. Even though it's a clown slam

Uhh Montanes is such a pathetic clown calling for a trainer at 4-1. Obviously trying to stop Gulbis' momentum. Should learn to lose graciously. Simply disgusting. Should just lose 2 games like a man and spare us the torture of watching his mug game.

Pathetic from Sodermug. So this is the clown that is supposed to threaten Nadal? I bet he won't make it past early rounds in RG this year.

Well done Almagro. Took out the trash nicely :)

Petrova is such a clown.

Now can we all agree that Soderling is an overrated clown who caught a lucky streak last year and will crash out of both RG and top 10 this year?

Federer would demolish Benneteau. Gulbis is giving the match away with errors. Nothing new. Overhyped clown will finally be brought down to earth.

Ivanovic being her usual clown self right now.

Isn't that the clown who almost got double bageled in Monte Carlo by Rafito?

Envy of what?

Face it, Sharapova is a terrible player, who ball bashed her way to several clown slams when other top players were slumping. I am looking forward to Henin double bageling her in R3, assuming she can get that far.

All luck this Clijsters, I hope Venus destroys her, first time in my life I will be rooting for one of the WS against the fat Belgian.

LOL even hating on the U.S Open.
 

vortex1

Banned
ROTFL make up your own freaking mind clown:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=4869470#post4869470




Oh let me guess what you are going to respond with now. You are going to say Henin, Jankovic, Wozniacki, Bartoli, and Azarenka would all regularlybeat Graf, but Graf would crush Serena in every match and double bagel her on clay.

Because your fat all serve idol isn't as good as you think she is. Her ground strokes are garbage since mid 2000's, when she has an off day with her serve, she gets thrashed (see RG 2010, USO 2009, USO 2007, Miami 2009 etc etc). When Henin was having her best years, where was your idol? Oh right, either faking injuries in 2006 or getting beatdowns in 2007.

In fact I can see some relation to Graf/Seles and Williams/Henin. Both hid in their holes when someone better came along and benefited from their rival getting stabbed (Seles) or retiring early (Henin), collecting slams against mugs.

By the way - did I say Henin would beat Graf? Grats on putting words in my mouth. All I said is that you're ******** to think Graf would double bagel her like you claimed earlier. 2007 Henin actually had slightly worse FH than Graf and infinitely better BH. Better movement and defense. It would be very close if they met in their respective peaks... which I can't say the same for Serena who would get a thrashing if she didn't serve at like 80% the whole match.
 

davey25

Banned
Because your fat all serve idol isn't as good as you think she is. Her ground strokes are garbage since mid 2000's, when she has an off day with her serve, she gets thrashed (see RG 2010, USO 2009, USO 2007, Miami 2009 etc etc). When Henin was having her best years, where was your idol? Oh right, either faking injuries in 2006 or getting beatdowns in 2007.

In fact I can see some relation to Graf/Seles and Williams/Henin. Both hid in their holes when someone better came along and benefited from their rival getting stabbed (Seles) or retiring early (Henin), collecting slams against mugs.

By the way - did I say Henin would beat Graf? Grats on putting words in my mouth. All I said is that you're ******** to think Graf would double bagel her like you claimed earlier. 2007 Henin actually had slightly worse FH than Graf and infinitely better BH. Better movement and defense. It would be very close if they met in their respective peaks... which I can't say the same for Serena who would get a thrashing if she didn't serve at like 80% the whole match.

I began typing out a reply but there is too much fail in this post to even bother. :lol::lol:
 

Joe Pike

Banned
LMAO ! henin's BH is light years better than graf's ... Even a casual observer of the WTA like me can see that


BS.
Henin has a better topspin BH, Graf a better slice BH.

Steffi's slice BH is the best ever women's tennis has seen.
I'm not so sure about Juju's TS BH.
 

Joe Pike

Banned
He's just a Henin hater, he thinks Graf would double bagel her on any surface... LOL. I could name 4-5 players in 2000's who would deny Graf slams. ...

:):):)
And who would this be - those 4-5 players in the 2000s?
Who "would deny Graf slams"?


Un-be-lie-va-ble ...
 
:):):)
And who would this be - those 4-5 players in the 2000s?
Who "would deny Graf slams"?


Un-be-lie-va-ble ...

Graf's competition from this decade would come from:

Serena on grass and hard courts
Henin on clay and hard courts
Venus on grass and fast hard courts

Nobody else really. I cant see Sharapova, Davenport, Clijsters, Mauresmo, Capriati, past her prime Seles, or an already mentally fried Hingis hurting a prime Graf at all. And even considering the rest of the overrated Russian brigade or the Serbs is comedy.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
BS.
Henin has a better topspin BH, Graf a better slice BH.

Steffi's slice BH is the best ever women's tennis has seen.
I'm not so sure about Juju's TS BH.

yes, graf has a better slice BH, so ??? fact is - henin's BH is arguably , if not the best OHBH in the WTA history, graf's doesn't even come anywhere close ...

get out of your graf shrine , just because she's clearly superior to henin doesn't mean her BH is anywhere close to henin's
 

vortex1

Banned
yes, graf has a better slice BH, so ??? fact is - henin's BH is arguably , if not the best OHBH in the WTA history, graf's doesn't even come anywhere close ...

get out of your graf shrine , just because she's clearly superior to henin doesn't mean her BH is anywhere close to henin's

notworthy.gif
Henin's BH is the most effective and beautiful shot in history, Graf's 1hbh looks like she's about to dislocate her shoulder with that jerking motion every time she hit it.
 

Joe Pike

Banned
notworthy.gif
Henin's BH is the most effective and beautiful shot in history, Graf's 1hbh looks like she's about to dislocate her shoulder with that jerking motion every time she hit it.


Graf's slice BH is at least as fluid and graceful as Henin's TS BH.
Simply watch both.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
You said that Henin's BH is far superior to Steffi's.
Obviously you meant her top-spin BH.

topspin and overall ....

I'm not talking about a one-match situation here, I'm talking about how their BHs have been throughout their careers ; even in a one-match situation , anyone who's not delusional would pick henin's BH over graf's BH
 

Joe Pike

Banned
OK let me ask you straight up. Who do you think has a better backhand- Henin or Graf. No further explanations or qualifying statements, just one or the other.


Some kid her suggested that "henin's BH is light years better than graf's."

Which is of course BS when we all know that Graf's slice BH is obviously better than Henin's.
You may hold the opinion, though, that a more spectacular shot like the top-spin BH allows to clinch it when we discuss "over-all better BH". Graf's slice BH was not "spectacular". But it was extremely consistent, pushed her opponents into "unforced" errors or set the stage for the execution of Miss Graf's killer shot.

Sadly, TW is littered with idiots who don't play tennis, never watched Graf play and who think the current crop of players is the best ever.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
OK let me ask you straight up. Who do you think has a better backhand- Henin or Graf. No further explanations or qualifying statements, just one or the other.

Some kid her suggested that "henin's BH is light years better than graf's."

Which is of course BS when we all know that Graf's slice BH is obviously better than Henin's.
You may hold the opinion, though, that a more spectacular shot like the top-spin BH allows to clinch it when we discuss "over-all better BH". Graf's slice BH was not "spectacular". But it was extremely consistent, pushed her opponents into "unforced" errors or set the stage for the execution of Miss Graf's killer shot.

Sadly, TW is littered with idiots who don't play tennis, never watched Graf play and who think the current crop of players is the best ever.

Answer to the point if you can ... again bolded for you . the above poster didn't ask for paras and paras of explanations .....henin's BH or graf's BH ?
 

IlliniSky

Rookie
Graf is great, no doubt, and Chris' consistency and longevity is amazing, but nobody put up stats in singles and doubles like Navratilova. Her stats are just unbelievable.

I know this will tick Graf fans off, but you can't ignore the fact of how much she gained from the Seles stabbing. There is no way she would have won as much as she did if that had not happened. I kind of feel sorry for Graf in a way because she should have been allowed to disprove that theory on her own terms, but because of one crazed fan, her accomplishments will always be looked down on by some.

Navratilova's dominance during '82-'86 was something to behold. And she did it in both singles and doubles. I think he got the top three right, but after that it's anyone's guess. Serena has a real chance to break into the top three though. The next 2 or 3 years will be very interesting.
 

dannythomas

Professional
In terms of her current quest to win her missing slam on grass I am sure Henin would love to have Steffi's sliced backhand
 

Joe Pike

Banned
Answer to the point if you can ... again bolded for you . the above poster didn't ask for paras and paras of explanations .....henin's BH or graf's BH ?


What do you mean by "better"?

More spectacular - Henin.
Resulting in more points won - Graf.

Question answered?
 

Joe Pike

Banned
Graf is great, no doubt, and Chris' consistency and longevity is amazing, but nobody put up stats in singles and doubles like Navratilova. Her stats are just unbelievable.

I know this will tick Graf fans off, but you can't ignore the fact of how much she gained from the Seles stabbing. ...


What did she "gain" from the Seles stabbing?
Do tell us - which slam would she not have won if it weren't for the stabbing?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
What do you mean by "better"?

More spectacular - Henin.
Resulting in more points won - Graf.

Question answered?

henin's BH is not only the more spectacular shot, it is the more effective shot clearly ...

thanks for showing how intense your fanboyism for graf is ...anyone not blinded can see henin's BH is the more effective shot
 

scootad.

Semi-Pro
Her path to several grand slam wins was made at least 90% easier with Seles out from FO '93 to USO '95.

I'm not one of those who thinks Seles would have kept winning 3 slams per year in that period but given that she had just been doing that, and had won the AO '93 its not a stretch to think Seles would have won at least 3-4 additional slams during that period.

Thats far more likely than Graf suddenly stopping her from winning any slams when she had been winning 3 per year for the past 2 years and 7 out of the most recent 9 slams up until she was attacked.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
henin's BH is not only the more spectacular shot, it is the more effective shot clearly ...

thanks for showing how intense your fanboyism for graf is ...anyone not blinded can see henin's BH is the more effective shot

Okay, okay, folks! The only way to really settle this is with the numbers.
..and since it is clear there is a debate over the meaning of the term "backhand," just assume it means "overall," then dig up the records on Graf and Henin--which should tell anyone which player had more winners, errors, with that stroke, etc., otherwise this will never see a conclusion.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Okay, okay, folks! The only way to really settle this is with the numbers.
..and since it is clear there is a debate over the meaning of the term "backhand," just assume it means "overall," then dig up the records on Graf and Henin--which should tell anyone which player had more winners, errors, with that stroke, etc., otherwise this will never see a conclusion.

and those stats are available that easily ? :roll:

anyways I'm done with this thread - was just having some fun pushing a fanboy around - wanted to see how far he'd go !
 

Joe Pike

Banned
Her path to several grand slam wins was made at least 90% easier with Seles out from FO '93 to USO '95.

I'm not one of those who thinks Seles would have kept winning 3 slams per year in that period but given that she had just been doing that, and had won the AO '93 its not a stretch to think Seles would have won at least 3-4 additional slams during that period. ...


Maybe FO 94, USO 94 and AO 95?
Instead of Sanchez and Pierce?

But what do you mean by "90 % easier"???
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Nice back-pedaling ...

I'm not back-pedaling. I stick by what I said ..... wanted to see what your extremely fanboyish reaction would be , that's it ...

Posted just to clarify your delusion. This will be my final post in this thread ...
 

scootad.

Semi-Pro
Maybe FO 94, USO 94 and AO 95?
Instead of Sanchez and Pierce?

Sure those are reasonable candidates. Seles never had much trouble with ASV prior to being attacked.

But of course the draw would have been different with Seles in it at those events so, it's hard to say who would have made it to the finals to be her opponent.
 
its not a stretch to think Seles would have won at least 3-4 additional slams during that period.

Considering 4 slams were won anyway by non Graf players (mostly when Graf was injured) and 3 of those were Seles's pigeons for life Martinez and Sanchez, that statement doesnt neccessarily mean anything for Graf.

Basically Seles would have had to win 6 out of the 11 until the end of 1995 just to drop Graf by 2 or 3 total which would still leave Graf at 19 or 20 total slams. And to drop Graf by 4 or 5 total Seles would need to win about 8 out of 11 which would mean needing to be continuing to win 3 slams per year.
 
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scootad.

Semi-Pro
Considering 4 slams were won anyway by non Graf players (mostly when Graf was injured) and 3 of those were Seles's pigeons for life Martinez and Sanchez, that statement doesnt neccessarily mean anything for Graf.

Notice I didn't specify which 4 slams - it certainly could mean something for Graf if some of those 4 were slams Graf won during that period.
 
Notice I didn't specify which 4 slams - it certainly could mean something for Graf if she some of those 4 were slams Graf won during that period.

You dont have to specify. Anyone with a brain realizes the first and most obvious slams going to Seles slams won by Sanchez or Martinez like clowns before Graf. Any idea that Seles would take slams from Graf BEFORE taking them away from Sanchez, Martinez, and Pierce who are all 10 times easier opponents for her than Graf is laughable.
 

scootad.

Semi-Pro
You dont have to specify. Anyone with a brain realizes the first and most obvious slams going to Seles slams won by Sanchez or Martinez like clowns before Graf.

I don't agree. The draw would have been different with Seles in it. For instance Graf would have never faced Lori McNeil at Wimbledon 94 first round (someone she had trouble with in the past) and may never have lost that match.
 
I don't agree. The draw would have been different with Seles in it. For instance Graf would have never faced Lori McNeil at Wimbledon 94 first round (someone she had trouble with in the past) and may never have lost that match.

I agree in which case Graf wins that Wimbledon and if Seles beats Graf in a different slam final it is just a trade off and Graf doesnt lose a thing, only Martinez the clown loses her joke Wimbledon, and if anything Graf now gains a more prestigious slam even losing a different slam final to Seles hypothetically. Heck maybe Graf now has 8 Wimbledons without the Seles stabbing and is more motivated to chase the record being a bit closer. And then if you were to take 2 (if not all 3) of the 3 remaining slams won by Sanchez and Pierce, Seles is already up to atleast 3 slams, has already beaten Graf in the finals of 1, 2, or possibly 3 of those, depending on the draw shake up you refer to, and Graf still hasnt lost any slams yet until we add up even more hypothetical Seles slams. Thus Seles has to win even higher totals then 3 or 4 to push Grafs totals down at all, and to push them on par or below Martina and Chris she would need to keep winning 3 slams a year from 93-95 basically.

I am not talking about each specific slam neccessarily but the grand sum of 93-95. If Seles were strong enough to win any slams we can safely assume Martinez, Sanchez, and Pierce would be lucky to amass even 1 slam as they are all pretty much a joke. Furthermore Martinez and Sanchez are Seles's easiest matchups of top players of her whole career, and since they all got lucky to win the few slams they won anyway while Graf was injured/upset and nobody else was around during those years. So en masse Seles already has to reach 3 or 4 slams before we even start deducting from Graf if she goes beyond that point, that is unless Seles were too weak to win slams at all during this time.
 
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scootad.

Semi-Pro
I agree in which case Graf wins that Wimbledon and if Seles beats Graf in a different slam final it is just a trade off and Graf doesnt lose a thing, only Martinez the clown; and then if you take 2 of the 3 slams won by Sanchez and Pierce Seles is already up to 3 slams, has already beaten Graf in the finals of 1, 2, or possibly 3 of those, depending on the draw shake up you refer to, and Graf still hasnt lost any slams yet until we add up even more hypothetical Seles slams. Thus Seles has to win even higher totals then 3 or 4 to push Grafs totals down at all, and to push them on par or below Martina and Chris she would need to keep winning 3 slams a year from 93-95 basically.

I hear what you're saying. I don't like specifying slams but for instance I don't think its any less likely for her to have won '93 or '95 FO (given that she had just won '90-92 FO's) than it would have been for her winning '93 USO, '94 FO or '95 AO.

Its kind of a silly discussion because again, the draws would have been different, etc. But I certainly do think Seles' slam count would have been higher (and Graf's lower) if not for Gunther.
 
I hear what you're saying. I don't like specifying slams but for instance I don't think its any less likely for her to have won '93 or '95 FO (given that she had just won '90-92 FO's) than it would have been for her winning '93 USO, '94 FO or '95 AO.

Its kind of a silly discussion because again, the draws would have been different, etc. But I certainly do think Seles' slam count would have been higher (and Graf's lower) if not for Gunther.

Collectively I see it like this. There were 11 slams after the stabbing until the end of 1995. I would estimate Sanchez or Pierce (not both) win just 1 slam from 93-95. Martinez forget it, she only won Wimbledon on her worst surface by far since she avoided all of Graf, Seles, Novotna, Sanchez, and caught an old Martina on a really bad day. So that less then stellar trio collectively win just 1 slam vs the 4 they did win while Graf was the only great player in front of them. Graf from 93-95 won 7 slams as it was. So I see it like:

If Seles wins 3 slams. Graf still wins 7 (same)
If Seles wins 4 slams. Graf wins 6 (1 less)
If Seles wins 5 slams. Graf wins 5 (2 less)
If Seles wins 6 slams. Graf wins 4 (3 less)
If Seles wins 7 slams. Graf wins 3 (4 less)

Essentialy Seles was going to have to an awful lot, up to her pre stabbing pace to push Graf down to Navratilova and Evert totals.

I also dont believe 1996 would have been any different. Seles had a bad shoulder, some other injuries, and was dealing with some off court problems. She still did win Australia, then Graf owned the rest of that year .
 

scootad.

Semi-Pro
I also dont believe 1996 would have been any different. Seles had a bad shoulder, some other injuries, and was dealing with some off court problems. She still did win Australia, then Graf owned the rest of that year .

This I disagree with. I think '96 and beyond also would have been different had Gunther not existed. For a number of reasons.

Seles had a bad shoulder: I'm sure some of this could be attributed to overusing it while training during her comeback after 2 years of complete disuse - remember she didn't play competitively for those years and sat at home depressed.

The off court problems, sure - her dad would have gotten cancer anyway.

I just don't think you can take away an event like the stabbing and assume the trajectory of events would have changed from FO '93 to end of '95 and then gone back to the way they were all of a sudden in '96.
 
This I disagree with. I think '96 and beyond also would have been different had Gunther not existed. For a number of reasons.

Seles had a bad shoulder: I'm sure some of this could be attributed to overusing it while training during her comeback after 2 years of complete disuse - remember she didn't play competitively for those years and sat at home depressed.

The off court problems, sure - her dad would have gotten cancer anyway.

I just don't think you can take away an event like the stabbing and assume the trajectory of events would have changed from FO '93 to end of '95 and then gone back to the way they were all of a sudden in '96.

I dont think her injuries were anything other than bad luck and also not being the best athlete thus being more prone to them. Her having no injuries during her 2-3 year run at top was the real unlikely event. That would not have continued for much longer as it doesnt for even the most athletic players. She actually had her worst luck with injuries by far in 96 and 97, and had much fewer from 98-2002 with the exception of 2001. The unfortunate thing for her in this sense was that 96 and 97 were her best chances to be competitive as the field from 98 was too deep with too many problematic matchups for her, and being the naturally early bloomer she was, was past her prime by that point as well.

Seles inspite of her injuries and personal problems dominated people like Sanchez Vicario, Sabatini, and Martinez, just as before the stabbing. As has already been illustrated earlier this thread her dominance head to head of Graf was always a myth, and frankly never existed even during her own dominance of the game. And most of the other players to emerge after 96 were a whole different group of women who were: a)better players than Sanchez the very very lucky 4 slam winner, and 1 slam wonders Sabatini, Martinez, Novotna, etc...b) much worse matchups for Seles and her game than the aforementioned group.
 
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scootad.

Semi-Pro
Fair enough. You bring up some good points. I will agree to disagree but its refreshing to converse with someone who can debate without getting into name calling...which is why I hesitate to engage in these endless Graf-Seles debates. It always spirals into juvenile attacks.
 

pmerk34

Legend
What did she "gain" from the Seles stabbing?
Do tell us - which slam would she not have won if it weren't for the stabbing?

She immediately gained her number one ranking back and immediately won the 93 French open.

Go watch the 93 AO final again. The crowd is pulling for Graf because they knew she was underdog.
 

pmerk34

Legend
Collectively I see it like this. There were 11 slams after the stabbing until the end of 1995. I would estimate Sanchez or Pierce (not both) win just 1 slam from 93-95. Martinez forget it, she only won Wimbledon on her worst surface by far since she avoided all of Graf, Seles, Novotna, Sanchez, and caught an old Martina on a really bad day. So that less then stellar trio collectively win just 1 slam vs the 4 they did win while Graf was the only great player in front of them. Graf from 93-95 won 7 slams as it was. So I see it like:

If Seles wins 3 slams. Graf still wins 7 (same)
If Seles wins 4 slams. Graf wins 6 (1 less)
If Seles wins 5 slams. Graf wins 5 (2 less)
If Seles wins 6 slams. Graf wins 4 (3 less)
If Seles wins 7 slams. Graf wins 3 (4 less)

Essentialy Seles was going to have to an awful lot, up to her pre stabbing pace to push Graf down to Navratilova and Evert totals.

I also dont believe 1996 would have been any different. Seles had a bad shoulder, some other injuries, and was dealing with some off court problems. She still did win Australia, then Graf owned the rest of that year .

Seles was winning an awful lot she was 55-1 in grand slams when Grafs fan tried to kill her. Their last pre stabbing match showed Steffi could not deal with her.
 

powerangle

Legend
I agree with this guy's list, the only point I have is that I would switch King and Serena around. King should be #5, with Serena at #6. Serena may have the extra slam over King, but King has waaaay more titles than Serena. The guy put Nav over Graf even though Graf had 4 extra slams, which means he's valuing other stats quite heavily. In that same vein then, the 1 extra slam that Serena has shouldn't overcome the other stats that King has (using the same logic).
 

Trillus

Banned
Just the players since 1960? I would say in that case:

1. Graf
2. Evert
3. Court
4. Navratilova
5. Serena
6. King
7. Seles
8. Henin
9. Venus
10. Bueno
11. Hingis
12. Goolagong

Truly of all time:

1. Graf
2. Evert
3. Court
4. Navratilova
5. Wills Moody
6. Connolly
7. Lenglen
8. Serena
9. King
10. Seles
11. Henin
12. Venus
13. Gibson
14. Bueno
15. Brough
16. Du Pont
17. Hart
18. Goolagong
19. Marble
20. Douglas Chambers
21. Betz
22. Hingis
 

powerangle

Legend
Just the players since 1960? I would say in that case:

1. Graf
2. Evert
3. Court
4. Navratilova
5. Serena
6. King
7. Seles
8. Henin
9. Venus
10. Bueno
11. Hingis
12. Goolagong

Truly of all time:

1. Graf
2. Evert
3. Court
4. Navratilova
5. Wills Moody
6. Connolly
7. Lenglen
8. Serena
9. King
10. Seles
11. Henin
12. Venus
13. Gibson
14. Bueno
15. Brough
16. Du Pont
17. Hart
18. Goolagong
19. Marble
20. Douglas Chambers
21. Betz
22. Hingis

What does Serena have that King doesn't have, other than the extra slam? King has many other areas where she far surpasses Serena. Is this a slam winners list? Just curious.
 

Trillus

Banned
What does Serena have that King doesn't have, other than the extra slam? King has many other areas where she far surpasses Serena. Is this a slam winners list? Just curious.

Serena had tougher competition overall. I know people will mention the people King has played but if you analyze closer King won most of her slams while Court was either taking a pregnancy leave or just coming back from one, when Bueno was already past her prime, and before Evert began to dominate. Serena directly beat greats when they were at the top of the game, even if only secondary greats like Venus, Henin, and Hingis to win many of her slams.

I dont know all of King's stats as they arent as easily available for players back that far. Serena though was the dominant force of her time in a way King wasnt in hers. There is some periods King was the best but she wasnt even close to the best player of her own era overall, while Serena is by far in hers (and yes I know Serena didnt face a Court but as far as how each fared in their own time that is still a big difference, and who knows what either Court or King would do in a more modern era but in Court's case you obviously have to acknowledge her record). In fact I dont believe there is a single year King was the best where Court played and was near her best. I guess you could argue 1966 since Court played most of the year and King finished it #1 but she probably wouldnt have if Court had finished the year as she was ahead overall at that point even with King winning Wimbledon. And there is 1968 but this was probably the worst year of tennis of Court's career, reaching no slam finals other than the typically depleted Australian Open and losing in the quarters of both Wimbledon and the U.S Open (not to King). King's best years were in 1967 and 1972 when Court didnt even play (except the very end of 72 coming back from another pregnancy leave).

Serena's longevity already surpasses Court. King won all her slams from 1966 to 1975. In her return to tennis from 1977 onwards she didnt post a single win over Evert for instance the rest of her career. Serena has won her slams from 1999 to 2010, a longer time span already.

King is also fortunate in her era 3 of the 4 majors were played on grass which is by far her best surface, even if she didnt fully capatilize by skipping Australia often (not that she would have had much chance vs Court on here home turf anyway. Honestly it is hard to imagine her being nearly as strong as Serena on hard courts, as she wasnt considered as strong a player on hard courts as grass. And on clay she is weaker than Serena despite that it is Serena's worst surface too, King's French Open was a minor miracle in a year Court, Evert, and Richey all didnt play (although she did beat Evonne which was a good win). Only on grass or indoors might she be as strong or superior IMO.

Obviously King does have some obvious edges- consistency, more Wimbledon and U.S open titles at this point, better overall tournament performance. Still overall I went with Serena by a hair. The two are interchangeable at this point really.
 
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