Cibulkova-Serena Should Not Be Seeded

Your premise is faulty and then it's all downhill from there, but your gobbledygook shows some attempt at plausibility.
Service Ace said:
Can't see the irony in calling a Russian "ultra left" then proceeds to put words in people's mouth because his own ignorant mind comprehend the stupidity of that statement. Then sinks even further into imbecility by making some illogical correlation between his already faulty inference and being brainwashed. Lol just stop posting before you burn off what few brain cells you have left.
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Bartelby said:
English players get a whole bunch of wildcards based on promise and not on merit, so they have a good system going for themselves.
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Thats not how the wildcard system works. If a country sponsors a tourney, they get to put a few of their players in the draw.
 
Chadillac said:
Thats not how the wildcard system works. If a country sponsors a tourney, they get to put a few of their players in the draw.
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It is certainly more than a few at Wimbledon & has been for a long time. Total farce that should be stopped, it needs to be on performance rather than jingoism. At least this year they seem to be picking younger players who might be something, rather than those who have been on the tour for years & done nothing-but got rewarded for something less than mediocrity.
 
MatsPhilander said:
It is certainly more than a few at Wimbledon & has been for a long time. Total farce that should be stopped, it needs to be on performance rather than jingoism. At least this year they seem to be picking younger players who might be something, rather than those who have been on the tour for years & done nothing-but got rewarded for something less than mediocrity.
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Yep, thats the problem with them exploiting the rule. They cashed out, puts their integrity in question, like some of the recent fights in ufc
 
I think Serena should be seeded no.1 actually. Lol Her new born baby probably should be seeded no.25 and could already beat Cibulkova and most Wta players.
 
Chadillac said:
I wonder what the english players feel about serena taking a wild card from them.
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Serena isn't taking a wildcard. She's using a protected ranking. A protected ranking only guarantees you entry into the tournament. In her case, her protected ranking is high enough for entry into the main draw. It doesn't guarantee you a seeding. Also, there's a record number of British women in this year's tournament due to wildcards.
 
The point is that everyone understands that wildcards are discretionary, or are accorded those returning from injury, but the novelty here is that Wimbledon is arguing seeds are at their discretion.

It's actually not a novelty, but it seems that way given the prominence of Williams and the cause of her low ranking.
 
Bartelby said:
The point is that everyone understands that wildcards are discretionary, or are accorded those returning from injury, but the novelty here is that Wimbledon is arguing seeds are at their discretion.

It's actually not a novelty, but it seems that way given the prominence of Williams and the cause of her low ranking.
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Correct. And if there's any argument and animus, it should be direct at the folks and not Serena. As I said in an earlier post, she can ask for a seed but they don't have to give her one. They're simply doing what they feel is in the best interest of the tournament and it's been their prerogative for years to do so.
 
Gemini said:
Serena isn't taking a wildcard. She's using a protected ranking. A protected ranking only guarantees you entry into the tournament. In her case, her protected ranking is high enough for entry into the main draw. It doesn't guarantee you a seeding. Also, there's a record number of British women in this year's tournament due to wildcards.
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So its a 129 person draw this year?
 
Bartelby said:
The point is that everyone understands that wildcards are discretionary, or are accorded those returning from injury, but the novelty here is that Wimbledon is arguing seeds are at their discretion.

It's actually not a novelty, but it seems that way given the prominence of Williams and the cause of her low ranking.
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Wimbledon used to seed on a discretionary basis. I'm not sure whether it was because of the incompetence of their seeding committee or because of threats of boycotts from supposed clay court specialists, but they abolished their discretionary seeding in favour of a formula many years ago.
 
reaper said:
Wimbledon used to seed on a discretionary basis. I'm not sure whether it was because of the incompetence of their seeding committee or because of threats of boycotts from supposed clay court specialists, but they abolished their discretionary seeding in favour of a formula many years ago.
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They actually don't use the formula for the women. The WTA rankings are used and any changes within that order is the club's discretion.
 
Chadillac said:
So how does someone ranked 200 get into the draw when there are 128 players?

She used her protective ranking and got a wc.
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No. The protected ranking got her into the main draw. The usage of a protected ranking can be seen as a right while the award of a wildcard is a privilege. Serena didn't take the wildcard that could have gone to someone else. Her standing under the rules that govern special/protected rankings simply made one go away if anything.

What would be an example of a wildcard being used usurped would be if Nadal, after the entry deadline, decided to play Halle, Stuttgart, etc. and the tournament decided to allow him a spot in the draw.
 
Gemini said:
No. The protected ranking got her into the main draw. The usage of a protected ranking can be seen as a right while the award of a wildcard is a privilege. Serena didn't take the wildcard that could have gone to someone else. Her standing under the rules that govern special/protected rankings simply made one go away if anything.
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They are essentially the same thing.

Someone got bumped out of the main draw or there are 129 players this year. Cant have it both ways
 
Chadillac said:
They are essentially the same thing.

Someone got bumped out of the main draw or there are 129 players this year. Cant have it both ways
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No..they're not. They had the same outcome but they are implemented differently. That's like saying that 3+1 and 2+2 are the same formula. They are not but they both get you to the same solution.
 
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Gemini said:
No..they're not. They had the same outcome but they are implemented differently. That's like saying that 3+1 and 2+2 are the same formula. They are not but they both get you to the solution.
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I disagree, protective ranking = a wc. They go hand in hand, you cant use your protective ranking without getting a wildcard into the main draw
 
Gemini said:
No.
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Yes.

"Her current 183rd world ranking is guaranteed because WTA rules allow women who miss time because of a pregnancy to enter events based on their pre-absence ranking."

She is 183 with her protected ranking, that requires a wildcard to get into a 128 draw.

Article is also wrong there are no rules for pregnancy, players and the tour need to vote on new rules
 
Mainad said:
Barbora Strycova has also come out against it. Says that as pregnancy is simply a lifestyle choice (as opposed to illness or injury) she doesn't see why that should merit a protected seeding. The views of the other women players on this subject are particularly interesting.
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I won't get into the debate either way right now, but it is very interesting that a few of the women's tour players hold the same view as some here on TTW, who are often told off for that view. Just saying.
 
MichaelNadal said:
White gives you free points from "go" :p
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That's a very sweeping statement though. I'm white and I think Sloane Stephens is pretty hot. Meanwhile I've never found Serena or Venus particularly attractive, but that's personal preference. It doesn't make anyone a racist.
 
Chadillac said:
Yes.

"Her current 183rd world ranking is guaranteed because WTA rules allow women who miss time because of a pregnancy to enter events based on their pre-absence ranking."

She is 183 with her protected ranking, that requires a wildcard to get into a 128 draw.

Article is also wrong there are no rules for pregnancy, players and the tour need to vote on new rules
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Pages 218 and 219 of the WTA rule book. Special ranking due to injury, illness and pregnancy. It's not a wild card no matter how much you want it to be. Wild cards are given as privileges. This was approved as a matter of right by the rules.

http://www.wtatennis.com/sites/default/files/rules2017.pdf

Every tournament she's played in this year has been due to a protected ranking. Even though they have nearly the same effect, they are not the same thing.
 
Gemini said:
Pages 218 and 219 of the WTA rule book. Special ranking due to injury, illness and pregnancy. It's not a wild card no matter how much you want it to be. Wild cards are given as privileges. This was approved as a matter of right by the rules.

http://www.wtatennis.com/sites/default/files/rules2017.pdf

Every tournament she's played in this year has been due to a protected ranking. Even though they have nearly the same effect, they are not the same thing.
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Maybe im missing something but if her protected ranking was 183, she doesnt qualify for the main draw.

She got a protective ranking, bias seed and a wildcard. Its become comical at what they do for her so she can beat Courts GS record.
 
When you are a champion everyone wants you. You may experience that feeling one day. Don't knock it till you try it!
Chadillac said:
Maybe im missing something but if her protected ranking was 183, she doesnt qualify for the main draw.

She got a protective ranking, bias seed and a wildcard. Its become comical at what they do for her so she can beat Courts GS record.
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When it comes to women even slave owners were 'equal opportunity'.
Steve0904 said:
That's a very sweeping statement though. I'm white and I think Sloane Stephens is pretty hot. Meanwhile I've never found Serena or Venus particularly attractive, but that's personal preference. It doesn't make anyone a racist.
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Tournaments sell tickets in the context of holding a fair tournament.

1. Sell tickets equals Serena gets seeded.

2. Fairness equals arguments on both sides.

Serena wins her seed!
 
TMF said:
Feel bad for Cibulkova. She works so hard for her ranking just to get rob at the biggest tennis tournament of the year.
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Yeah me too. Maybe in some ways she just believes that the seedings should be a current snapshot of how people are at a given point in time (and she was particularly affected & seemed to have a similar position when it came to Maria). So I totally get it & basically agree.

Idk, i think that having a floater like serena or maria is good for the sport and creates interest. I think SW should be able to have a protected ranking like an injured player would (i.e. it was a physical break) but not a seeding. How can you take into account and be predictive of what the appropriate seed to give her would be and needless to say it's untested until she is playing in the tournament and it certainly shouldn't be what it was when she went out (for anyone) because there's no way she'd be in the same shape (for pregnancy or injury for whoever).

That said, Wimbledon doesn't strictly follow WTA rankings; they have their own little system as well to account for grass etc. So i guess they can do what they want. I think the French handled it right and she went out exactly at the level where she should have gone out due to the way she was playing and her current fitness.
 
Bartelby said:
When you are a champion everyone wants you. You may experience that feeling one day. Don't knock it till you try it!
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Now explain which part of my statement triggered you. Your comment has nothing todo with a player ranked #454, using a protected ranking #183 to get into the main draw.
 
bigserving said:
Tennis is a business. No matter what form her game is in, Serena will sell waaaaay more tickets and draw more interest than Cibulkova, or most of the other players. I understand why the tournament would want to seed Serena to theoretically give her a better opportunity to go deeper in the draw.

If a player wishes to be seeded, they can go out and win the event a few times and they will have a better chance to get a seeding.

Wimbledon, giving the people what they want.
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Under that assumption, they should have just let Andy play. But generally I agree that it's a business and lots of funky stuff happens with seedings and draws that is most likely to generate business.
 
What if you get pregnant and have an abortion every 4months. You would never drop in the rankings

The rule says "pregnancy" not "child birth", correct?
 
You said you were missing something and I told you that you were missing the fact that she was a champion.

So my comment was entirely relevant.
Chadillac said:
Now explain which part of my statement triggered you. Your comment has nothing todo with a player ranked #454, using a protected ranking #183 to get into the main draw.
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Let's see if women start advertising their abortions in the daily news first before we concern ourselves with legalese.
Chadillac said:
What if you get pregnant and have an abortion every 4months. You would never drop in the rankings

The rule says "pregnancy" not "child birth", correct?
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Wimbledon came to an agreement about seedings with the ATP.

They have a free hand however with the women's seedings.
ihitlikeagirl said:
Under that assumption, they should have just let Andy play. But generally I agree that it's a business and lots of funky stuff happens with seedings and draws that is most likely to generate business.
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Bartelby said:
Let's see if women start advertising their abortions in the daily news first before we concern ourselves with legalese.
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Didnt know the daily news is who provides the protected ranking, learn something new every day

Bartelby said:
You said you were missing something and I told you that you were missing the fact that she was a champion.

So my comment was entirely relevant.
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What does her being a champion have todo with it? Her win 2yrs ago only helps her seeding, you have to be in the draw to be seeded.
 
See my post #81.
Chadillac said:
Didnt know the daily news is who provides the protected ranking, learn something new every day



What does her being a champion have todo with it? Her win 2yrs ago only helps her seeding, you have to be in the draw to be seeded.
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Bartelby said:
And there is a fairness argument, which you reject, but many don't.
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Why even rank them. Fairness, lol this is a pro sport not your participation class.

She hasnt earned this, there were plenty of tournaments other women were working their butt off in, serena wasnt there. You cant seed someone who has 5 matches played in 2yrs
 
Kind of like crying foul because Serena is targeted by corrupt USADA but standing behind the corrupt AELTC... At least USADA is doing a service not a disservice to the sport.
 
So you support the 'corrupt USADA's, your words, harrassment of Williams? The question is then how is it a service to the sport?

Tennis is a pro-sport, and not one that leans towards amateurism like the Olympics, so the AELTC made a sound commercial decision.
mellowyellow said:
Kind of like crying foul because Serena is targeted by corrupt USADA but standing behind the corrupt AELTC... At least USADA is doing a service not a disservice to the sport.
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