Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Yeah ones not a slam champ but she’s the Wimbledon finalist from last month. Paire, Ruud, Felix haven’t done much. Hell even Rublev hasn’t done much at slams.
Cincinnati Open prize money for the male champion is 87% more than the women.
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Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Well you’re in the minority there, will be interesting to hear the viewership stats. Osaka pulls tens of millions worldwide and the only thing Ruud is known for is?????
James P
G.O.A.T.
100% agree Osaka is more famous, but as to whom I'd rather watch, it's Ruud.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
Osaka gets big numbers in slam finals/semis when the casual fan tunes in for once.
Most of the season is made up of days like today, mid round matches during the day in Cincinnati. And that crowd, the tennis obsessive crowd, I'm willing to bet is more interested in watching Ruud play.
Too many people like the ones who start those silly thread about her on TTW are into her b*llsh*t. That's why she's "more famous" which is regrettable when people are misled who to pay attention to.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Being famous and wanting to watch her play are two separate issues. Yes she is the most famous player with the general public but most of the general public do not watch tennis.
Osaka has been knocked out of Cincy but viewership will be just fine. Many new viewers will tune in to watch the Cinderella wild card story Teichmann.
Spencer Gore
Legend
The higher standard set of players are being paid more. That's what happens in all sports.
Maybe the blueberry blast slurpee on her way out of town
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But you hate the men's tour don't you lol
If you proposed an even split in any other sport, you would be laughed out the building and escorted to your car. Can you imagine the WNBA players demanding equal money with the NBA? Or the LPGA and the PGA? Yeah, neither can I LOL
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
We can't imagine but we are capitalists. We will have to check if our favourite Marxist Bart can imagine it. That indeed may be part of his grand plan.
She's a social justice warrior and snowflake all in one
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
She has apparently changed now but we will see. After seeing the suffering in Haiti and Afghanistant she says she has seen the light and is now grateful for what she has.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
If the sport is unpopular the higher standard is probably not paid more. You are indulging in the fantasy that sport is a bastion of meritocracy. This is not the case.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I guess if you are interested in personalities, rivalries etc., you can get entertained by either tour. What I feel is that if I want to watch players with UTRs between 15 to 16.5, my only choice is to pay to buy tickets and watch the ATP tour. If I want to watch players with UTR between 12 to 13.5, I can either pay to buy tickets to watch the WTA tour or I can watch free men’s college tennis or Open UTR tournaments.
My club has been organizing an UTR Open tournament every month since the start of the year and the top 3-4 men’s seeds are top college players (including UCLA, USC, BYU etc.) with UTRs above 13 typically that I get to watch free. I don‘t have much incentive to drive to nearby towns and buy tickets to watch the WTA tour to watch the same level of tennis.
When I’m at a joint tournament like Indian Wells, the drop in level watching a WTA match after watching an ATP match is so dramatic that it is almost impossible for me to be entertained by the WTA match and I usually will go to another stadium to watch another ATP match. I have no problem with women getting paid whatever they can negotiate and I know that my wife enjoys WTA tennis as much as ATP tennis and there is a big audience for the WTA. But for me, the entertainment value has no comparison and I am also one of those fans who would rather watch ATP scrubs play rather than the top ranked superstars of the WTA. I don’t think it is a question of sexism to prefer watching players who have an UTR difference of 3 points higher. At the rec level, it is like watching 5.0 tennis vs 3.5 tennis. If you play tennis yourself at a decent level, you get entertained more by the highest level of play and not by personalities or rivalries usually. I am guessing that the OP is not a tennis player as I’ve never seen him post in the Tips or Adult League sections or any topic other than the WTA or political issues.
My club has been organizing an UTR Open tournament every month since the start of the year and the top 3-4 men’s seeds are top college players (including UCLA, USC, BYU etc.) with UTRs above 13 typically that I get to watch free. I don‘t have much incentive to drive to nearby towns and buy tickets to watch the WTA tour to watch the same level of tennis.
When I’m at a joint tournament like Indian Wells, the drop in level watching a WTA match after watching an ATP match is so dramatic that it is almost impossible for me to be entertained by the WTA match and I usually will go to another stadium to watch another ATP match. I have no problem with women getting paid whatever they can negotiate and I know that my wife enjoys WTA tennis as much as ATP tennis and there is a big audience for the WTA. But for me, the entertainment value has no comparison and I am also one of those fans who would rather watch ATP scrubs play rather than the top ranked superstars of the WTA. I don’t think it is a question of sexism to prefer watching players who have an UTR difference of 3 points higher. At the rec level, it is like watching 5.0 tennis vs 3.5 tennis. If you play tennis yourself at a decent level, you get entertained more by the highest level of play and not by personalities or rivalries usually. I am guessing that the OP is not a tennis player as I’ve never seen him post in the Tips or Adult League sections or any topic other than the WTA or political issues.
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InsideOut900
Legend
I am not saying internet forums are everything, but you can kind of gauge people's interest based on numbers of threads and numbers of messages across the board. Use Reddit and other sites too and maybe get a better image.
How many times has Ash Barty been talked about since Wimbledon? The literal long standing no1 in WTA, with two Slams at active. But what about Medvedev, Zverev and Tsitsipas, a.k.a the guys without star power?
First page of GPPD I see:
*"Osaka cried in the presser" - guess why the thread is there, lol
*"Osaka out of Cincinnati losing to Teichmann 6-3 3-6 3-6" - 6 replies, really a lot of people watching
*bumped thread "Impressive Emma Raducanu" - an actual great thread
*Annnnd you thread, trying to generate replies through creating controversy where there is none, bravo.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
Conversely though, playing tennis is probably one of the only reasons I like watching the WTA at all. Because even though it's massive step down from the men, I still have a huge appreciation for what a lot of these women can do on the court that I can't. Instead of just dismissing it immediately as "ugh, garbage. They don't hit as hard" and not giving it a second thought like most here seem to.
Still agree that I'd rather watch lower ranked men than highly ranked women though.
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Same sets played, male tournament has 0 of the big 3, 0 reigning slam champions in the draw. Women’s tournament has all 4 reigning champs (Osaka, Barty and Krejcikova). Also had 9 of the top 10 female while the men just has 6 of the top 10.
Male QF lineup is:
Medvedev v PCB
Rublev v Paire
Ruud v Zverev
Sonego/Tsitsipas v Berrettini/Felix
Female QF lineup is:
Barty v Krejcikova
Kerber v Kvitova
Pliskova v Badosa
Muchová/Bencic v Teichmann
0 slam champs on the men’s side Vs 4 on the women’s side. Epic QF’s including reigning RG champ v reigning Wimbledon champ and 3x slam champ Kerber v 2x slam champ Kvitova. Men’s side has uhh Rublev v Paire and Ruud v Zverev.... juicy.
Really hard to justify this one.
Thanks for posting this. Many of us on here are fans of both tours and there may be others, like me, who were not aware that this kind of disparity still occurred at joint masters 1000 / premier mandatory events.
This is slightly off-topic, but WTA must be hurting mightily from a financial standpoint at the moment. So much tournament infrastructure invested in China that has gone unredeemed for 2 seasons now.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
The prize money had already been determined before the draw was even made, let alone played out until the QFs... But you already knew that, didn't you?Same sets played, male tournament has 0 of the big 3, 0 reigning slam champions in the draw. Women’s tournament has all 4 reigning champs (Osaka, Barty and Krejcikova). Also had 9 of the top 10 female while the men just has 6 of the top 10.
Male QF lineup is:
Medvedev v PCB
Rublev v Paire
Ruud v Zverev
Sonego/Tsitsipas v Berrettini/Felix
Female QF lineup is:
Barty v Krejcikova
Kerber v Kvitova
Pliskova v Badosa
Muchová/Bencic v Teichmann
0 slam champs on the men’s side Vs 4 on the women’s side. Epic QF’s including reigning RG champ v reigning Wimbledon champ and 3x slam champ Kerber v 2x slam champ Kvitova. Men’s side has uhh Rublev v Paire and Ruud v Zverev.... juicy.
Really hard to justify this one.
WTA draws falling apart and reaching the later stages without any stars happens way too often... We had Krejcikova vs Sakkari and Pavlyuchenkova vs Zidansek in the semis of the French, for crying out loud. Casual fans of the game wouldn't have know 2, maybe 3 of the semifinalists
James P
G.O.A.T.
I watch maybe 10 matches a year intentionally on the WTA circuit (ie, I think to myself, I absolutely HAVE to watch that match). I catch a lot more by leaving the Tennis Channel on, but it's usually background noise.
OTOH, I watch probably 10, definitely 5 matches a week intentionally on the ATP circuit. That includes internet/replays on TC Plus because some WTA match is on that I could care less about.
I don't think I'm an outlier.
OTOH, I watch probably 10, definitely 5 matches a week intentionally on the ATP circuit. That includes internet/replays on TC Plus because some WTA match is on that I could care less about.
I don't think I'm an outlier.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
What does this mean? Didn't China conquer the virus long ago. Total deaths have been holding steady at around 5000 for 18 months.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
We take it that this applies to individual sports and not team sports like the NBA and WNBA. That would just be silly.
loosegroove
Hall of Fame
Call me obtuse but which number is 87% more than what other number?
EDIT: Now I see, I think you were comparing the finalists' prize money, not the champions'. Because the discrepancy between the champions is even greater.
EDIT: Now I see, I think you were comparing the finalists' prize money, not the champions'. Because the discrepancy between the champions is even greater.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
You don't conquer a virus, and China has over a billion people to keep relatively healthy. You can't do that by following the UK and US.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
There is no mystery. Men are better at game of tennis than women as already explained by McEnroe some years ago. That is why men get paid more than women.Same sets played, male tournament has 0 of the big 3, 0 reigning slam champions in the draw. Women’s tournament has all 4 reigning champs (Osaka, Barty and Krejcikova). Also had 9 of the top 10 female while the men just has 6 of the top 10.
Male QF lineup is:
Medvedev v PCB
Rublev v Paire
Ruud v Zverev
Sonego/Tsitsipas v Berrettini/Felix
Female QF lineup is:
Barty v Krejcikova
Kerber v Kvitova
Pliskova v Badosa
Muchová/Bencic v Teichmann
0 slam champs on the men’s side Vs 4 on the women’s side. Epic QF’s including reigning RG champ v reigning Wimbledon champ and 3x slam champ Kerber v 2x slam champ Kvitova. Men’s side has uhh Rublev v Paire and Ruud v Zverev.... juicy.
Really hard to justify this one.
Therefore the question are :
Why men and women should be paid equally for different quality of tennis?
Why enforce equality fighting DNA - DNA variance made us humans and and DNA variance is what improves our well being?
Why causing death and destruction when we cannot fight DNA?
We need to minimize exploitation of inferior. Enforcing equality against DNA increases exploitation. And 'improves' our self destruction by stupid.
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Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
The cumulative numbers of deaths have been holding steady at 5000-6000* for 18 months. Well done!
* Only Bart believes these numbers.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Some people do not think of in terms of UTR. To have a rating that does not distinguish between men and women is just silly. Particularly at the elite level.
At the elite level, people buy tickets to watch the very best women. And people buy tickets to watch the very best men. They do not think of it in terms of UTR.
This is probably the most exciting tennis match we have ever seen. Two of the world's top women. Don't give a damn that their UTR rating is 13.5 instead of 16.5.
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Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
I’ve never said the women play a higher level than the men but your saying that diminishes the sport? So women shouldn’t play tennis for that reason? If you’d rather watch men tank like Paire and Tomic than the top women in the world then ok, that’s on you. It’s sad you can’t appreciate women’s sports because it’s not as “high quality” as men’s sports despite them trying their very best. Guess women shouldn’t play sports then? Or expect a lower pay even though in countries like Japan where Osaka can attract 10 million to a match while the men in her country couldn’t get those numbers. I just don’t get your point? The women will never be as good as the men, we can agree on that. So therefore they should be ignored? I am trying to relate here
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
The men hit the ball harder and faster than the women I agree. However, a juicy match between Barty and Osaka vs a boring match of Paire v Ruud isn’t as interesting. It’s like football. Brazil v Germany is top tier but Honduras v Egypt? Meh.
The ATP without the big 3 is made up of Honduras v Egypt matches. PCB v Paire? Ruud v Felix? Yawn. There’s no Djokovic, there’s no Federer, there’s no Nadal, there’s no Thiem. There is nobody big to watch. The WTA? Has the biggest names in the sport. And love her or hate her. Naomi Osaka has been one of THE most discussed athletes of 2021. Just a fact.
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
The WTA main tour tournaments in China havent been going ahead since the shutdown. The WTA has a massive investment in mainland China. At least 8 main tour events that are not currently being played.
Hopefully the situation can change again soon, but thats a massive financial hit to take not having those big events. ATP was invested in mainland China as well but not to the same extent.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I never said any of what you are saying in your post. I did not say women should not play tennis or other sports. I didn’t say women should get paid less than men. I didn’t say that women should be ignored. You are some kind of political activist fouling up these tennis boards willing to make up your own talking points.
You seem to think there is something political about wanting to watch lower ranked ATP players instead of WTA stars in some earlier posts. I tried to explain to you that there are people like me and other fans who don’t care whether it is a man or woman playing, but are interested in watching the highest level of the sport. If I have a choice of watching a 13.0 UTR woman play or a 12.0 UTR man play, I would watch the woman every time. Whether I like watching women play tennis has no bearing on my political views regarding equal pay for women in any endeavor including tennis. Pro players get paid for the entertainment they provide and not the quality of play and so, I am happy to see pro players of all genders negotiate the most money they can get from tournament organizers.
Born_to_slice
Legend
Apparently this is what is most concerning for the citizen of a country which is becoming a medical dictatorship on steroids. 
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
I’d be more than happy to recommend some players and matchups to look out for that would be far more interesting than the probably straight set boring matches you watch on the men’s tour. If you watch any Isner or Opelka matches, I know for sure I can get you something better than 20 aces a match and instead some rallies and tension in the match that has you biting your fingernails as to who will win
InsideOut900
Legend
Except Osaka will not be there and the actual match-up on Sunday is gonna be maybe a Zverev-Medvedev or a Medvedev-Tsitsipas, not Paire-Ruud.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
I’m not saying anything politically. You seem to be making this about UTR for some reason. I’m sure Benoît Paire has a greater UTR score than most women on tour so you’d rather watch that tankfest over a tight close match with the best women in the world? If the answer is yes then we have no point arguing. My point is there are great matches on the women’s tour, far better than straight set mediocre matches on the men’s tour. They may have lower UTR scores but it’s a far better watch than a 6-2 6-2 win by some man.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
There are a few big names at the top in both ATP and WTA. They are both in a similar situation. After you get outside the Top 20 or whatever it is, the tier two matches have similar drawing power.
Don't see how a #50 WTA is any more exciting than a #50 ATP.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Didn’t know you can predict the future of what the final will be on Sunday just from the QF lineup? Can you tell me the lotto numbers? Thanks.
Keizer
Hall of Fame
You know, I’ve seen this same debate on here for years but nobody has ever put forward actual numbers to back either side. Do you or someone else on this thread have ATP or WTA viewership numbers (with and without Big 3 members) so we can compare? I’m actually curious, because I believe that Big 3 ATP was far more popular than WTA but I have no idea about ATP sans Big 3.
Anyway, my general belief is that you should be paid in proportion to the views you draw. Professional sports isn’t a fundamental right, it is a product that is enabled by supply and demand. Nobody is saying that women should or should not play any sports. But this is professional tennis — unless someone wants to subsidize them in the name of equality (this is assuming they actually bring in fewer viewers), no profit making corporation has a obligation to promote a product that is demanded less over a product that is demanded more. On the flip side, if the tennis viewing community decided that the WTA was more popular than the ATP (regardless of quality of play) I would say the women should make more money than the men.
False equivalence. Brazil and Germany are better than Honduras and Egypt in terms of quality of play. Osaka vs Barty is without doubt a lower quality tennis match than Ruud-Paire. @socallefty likely does not care about these storylines (which are usually the territory of muckraking tennis journalists like Rothenburg who don’t know anything about the sport) as much as the actual quality of tennis and he is entitled to make his viewing choice on the basis of that preference.
Anyway, the nationalities involved in soccer lead to better storylines than tennis can ever have so I don’t think there is a parallel here.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Again, you hate her guts (which just shows how powerful and big her name is) but Osaka is the highest profile female sportswoman in the world. Barty is Australia’s best female athlete right now. Simona Halep? Sabalenka? Andreescu? Swiatek? All huge. All slam champs minus Aryna.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
I never said Barty v Osaka is a higher quality match I said it would attract more people. Considering Osaka matches attract millions of people and the men’s tour now struggles to get anyone watching outside of the big 3, I’d love to hear more. I believe the Osaka/Serena Aus Open match is the most watched match of either tour this year? I too would like to see stats especially at this shambles of a tournament on the men’s side with no slam champions and no big 3. Think nobody is checking in on Paire or Ruud. Nothing the mens tour is offering is comparable to the women’s matches.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Apparently this is what is most concerning for the citizen of a country which is becoming a medical dictatorship on steroids.
Bart is very safe and happy down there!
Keizer
Hall of Fame
Osaka is the only one that is a global superstar in that list. Slam champion means nothing in the WTA with the number of people that have been one slam wonders recently. This is like saying Gaudio or Johansson is a big deal. Big 3 has warped people’s perspective of success on the ATP. Tsitsipas, Medvedev, and Thiem would have been multi slam champs already if not for these guys.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
It’s more than fine it’s not your cup of tea. I’m happy to be shown that the new crop of men are out viewing and outselling the new crop of women. Djokovic, Nadal, Federer. Cause Serena is mostly as good as gone. Osaka has shown she can attract tens of millions to the sport and Barty attracts millions here in Australia. Who on the men’s side is bringing the bacon consistently for the ATP? What numbers and proof can you give? Cause I can Osaka matches and their viewers as proof of her worth. Who on the ATP is the future of the sport? How can you say Paire or Ruud deserves 80% more than Osaka or Barty yet nobody cares about them?
InsideOut900
Legend
You said you can't wait for the boring Paire-Ruud final. What are the lotto numbers again?
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
The earlier poster personally attended the Pliskova match in Cincy and said there were only a few spectators there. But you claim Pliskova is a huge draw... You have no credibility!
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Don’t act like this forum is representative of the public. Osaka is viewed as a victim in most media but on here she’s viewed as the spawn of Satan. You have said some awful things about her, far worse than the men who hit lineswomen and are accused of hitting their partners but Osaka and her mental health? She’s a disgusting spoiled brat. The double standards are real on here and don’t play dumb on that.
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