Cincinnati Open prize money for the male champion is 87% more than the women.

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I never said Barty v Osaka is a higher quality match I said it would attract more people. Considering Osaka matches attract millions of people and the men’s tour now struggles to get anyone watching outside of the big 3, I’d love to hear more. I believe the Osaka/Serena Aus Open match is the most watched match of either tour this year? I too would like to see stats especially at this shambles of a tournament on the men’s side with no slam champions and no big 3. Think nobody is checking in on Paire or Ruud. Nothing the mens tour is offering is comparable to the women’s matches.

Well, I have no idea one way or another. My point is that this is probably a business decision based on the sum a tournament believes it can negotiate with the WTA. If there is truly an imbalance between revenue generation and prize money between the tours, isn’t it the obligation of the tours to bargain differently? I don’t see why I should care about this issue or alter my viewing based on it.
 
You have said some awful things about her

We called her an ingrate months ago and you had a fit. Yesterday she came out and admitted that she had been desensitized and that she was ungrateful for being paid to play. This, after the spoiled child watched the victims in Haiti and Afghanistan.

So you got it all wrong and we have been vindicated!

"To go out there & play, to see fans that people come out & watch me play, that itself is an accomplishment.​
I'm not sure when along the way I started desensitizing that. I felt like I was very ungrateful about it."​

Her exact words. Quoted for the truth. Now we have it straight from the horse's mouth!

Now let's hope this malcontent behaves herself.
 
Well, I have no idea one way or another. My point is that this is probably a business decision based on the sum a tournament believes it can negotiate with the WTA. If there is truly an imbalance between revenue generation and prize money between the tours, isn’t it the obligation of the tours to bargain differently? I don’t see why I should care about this issue or alter my viewing based on it.
Ok then if you don’t want to care then don’t post? I’m not here to try to make you understand this and judging by your post, even you aren’t sure of who attracts more of the established women on the WTA and the unknown men on the ATP.
 
We called her an ingrate months ago and you had a fit. Yesterday she came out and admitted that she had been desensitized and that she was ungrateful for being paid to play. This, after the spoiled child watched the victims in Haiti and Afghanistan.

So you got it all wrong and we have been vindicated!

"To go out there & play, to see fans that people come out & watch me play, that itself is an accomplishment.​
I'm not sure when along the way I started desensitizing that. I felt like I was very ungrateful about it."​

Her exact words. Quoted for the truth. We had called her out as an ingrate long ago but we were viciously attacked by the coddling Bart. Now we have it straight from the horse's mouth!


Origin
Late Middle English (as an adjective): from Latin ingratus, from in- ‘not’ + gratus ‘grateful’.
You called her vile awful things and mocked her mental health. Don’t act like her acknowledging the atrocities of Afghanistan and Haiti somehow justified your hateful posts attacking her. You were sick with what you said about her. Truly just disgusting things were said and you should be ashamed.
 
You called her vile awful things and mocked her mental health. Don’t act like her acknowledging the atrocities of Afghanistan and Haiti somehow justified your hateful posts attacking her. You were sick with what you said about her. Truly just disgusting things were said and you should be ashamed.

Ingrate and malcontent perfectly describes her. It is true. Let's hope she behaves herself now. Although it took an Haitian earthquake and an Afghan war to finally open up her eyes. It shows just how detached from the real world this spoiled child actually was.
 
You're a failed and malcontent insurrectionist.

Ingrate and malcontent perfectly describes her. It is true. Let's hope she behaves herself now. Although it took an earthquake and a war to open up her eyes. It shows just how detached from the real world she actually was.
 
If the sport is unpopular the higher standard is probably not paid more. You are indulging in the fantasy that sport is a bastion of meritocracy. This is not the case.
But if the sport itself is popular then it is kind of a meritocracy. People get paid for their entertainment and while there may be other factors like whether there are big names and whether matches are competitive, entertainment is still predominantly derived from skill. Men's snooker, basketball scores more heavily, men throw and hit the ball harder in baseball etc.
 
Tennis is a televisual sport. And plenty of empty stands for the men as well. People will watch their own nationals, even if they are not the best in the world.

If you know so much about WTA tell us why the stands were empty for the Pliskova match. You know, Pliskova, the one you claim is a bigger draw than Ruud.
:rolleyes:
 
The merit in sport is due to besting the field. You get a gold even if you don't get a world record. Beyond a certain level of skill, however, people are paying for intangible factors. Osaka is a classic example of that.

But if the sport itself is popular then it is kind of a meritocracy. People get paid for their entertainment and while there may be other factors like whether there are big names and whether matches are competitive, entertainment is still predominantly derived from skill. Men's snooker, basketball scores more heavily, men throw and hit the ball harder in baseball etc.
 
Same sets played, male tournament has 0 of the big 3, 0 reigning slam champions in the draw. Women’s tournament has all 4 reigning champs (Osaka, Barty and Krejcikova). Also had 9 of the top 10 female while the men just has 6 of the top 10.

E9LoJRVWQAA5O2u.jpg

E9LoJRwWUAsgYPA.jpg


Male QF lineup is:
Medvedev v PCB
Rublev v Paire
Ruud v Zverev
Sonego/Tsitsipas v Berrettini/Felix

Female QF lineup is:
Barty v Krejcikova
Kerber v Kvitova
Pliskova v Badosa
Muchová/Bencic v Teichmann

0 slam champs on the men’s side Vs 4 on the women’s side. Epic QF’s including reigning RG champ v reigning Wimbledon champ and 3x slam champ Kerber v 2x slam champ Kvitova. Men’s side has uhh Rublev v Paire and Ruud v Zverev.... juicy.

Really hard to justify this one.

*patriarchy bad*
*woman is just as strong an athlete as a man*
*women bring just as much revenue in sports as men*

... pick your delusion!

As others pointed out, one is hosted by ATP the other by WTA. Prize money is distributed by the amount of revenue --> Your precious equality on full display.
If it's equity you're after (which it is from what you're saying) then that's an entirely different matter. Equity is not desirable in the slightest and seriously wrong.
 
The prize money isn't determined after it is known who's going to play and go deep, right? If the Big 3 played, it's unlikely the ATP prize money would be bigger, the same way for women the absence of popular players probably would't make the WTA prize money smaller.

Idk exactly how the prize funds are formed for the tournament but it would make sense if the ATP and WTA worked with what each tour can manage in terms of their overall profits/budgets. The ATP is more profitable so they can pay their employees more.
 
If you and all for the whole "equality" thing really wanted an equal stuffs, and the whole equal prize money, why you just not push and want men and women to participate in the same league ?
Then we should see all about the equality things completely being broken. I get women to try to squeeze their way for easier money, as they have always do, but a grown men to defend this thing is pathetic in my eyes.
You are just an attention seeker, and to look good in someone eyes, and its all fake as usual.

Does the female get paid equally in Football, Basketball, Boxing, MMA, and pretty much 99% of the sports in the world? Hell, no !!! How it's men fault that they are just not on the same level, and no one want to watch them? Let's be real like 90% of the men population are watching sport, while most female doesn't give a ***** about sports in general.
You can ask any women in the world, and she will know who Messi and Ronaldo are, as well as Nadal and Federer. But pretty much most of the female won't know a single female name in football and name outside of Williams in Tennis. I don't watch Basketball, but i know like 10 great male players, yet i don't know a single female one.
Again most female don't even watch sports, but they are crying for more money and equality. If you want equality go participate in the same event as men, and earn your money.

But you know what will happen then? There won't be a single female name in the whole TOP 300-400 in Tennis. And at very best there will be no more than 2-3 female in Top 500.
They won't be able to win even a 1st round at GS. No way in a hell they will even come close to any title.
And you know how much less money they will earn? Pretty much the whole female sport will be 100% Gone. They will quit in a no time, and will go work as a waitress or so. And they all will start crying that they want separate event with the men's.
It's pretty pathetic they are calling for equality only when they have benefits from it, but when things get rough, they are quick to start saying, but i'm a woman ....

And let's be real, when showing the views, show the whole chart. Not just the peak numbers, but how many have watched from the first till the last minute. Because most people are turning to see the "chick" watch 3 minutes and turn it off. And the other group is waiting for a men event, and start watching in the "last minutes" and pray for faster end, so his waited men event to start.

P.P. Wasn't big mouth Williams talking big as usual, and decide to challenge on a man tennis player, who was absolutely unknown out of top 200, who was semi-comedian, and he beat them both one after another, while smoking in between games?
It was like 6-1, 6-2 or something. And he wasn't even playing serious.

I want to argue that thesis. Wanna see how you going to fight that argument.
 
Same sets played, male tournament has 0 of the big 3, 0 reigning slam champions in the draw. Women’s tournament has all 4 reigning champs (Osaka, Barty and Krejcikova). Also had 9 of the top 10 female while the men just has 6 of the top 10.

E9LoJRVWQAA5O2u.jpg

E9LoJRwWUAsgYPA.jpg


Male QF lineup is:
Medvedev v PCB
Rublev v Paire
Ruud v Zverev
Sonego/Tsitsipas v Berrettini/Felix

Female QF lineup is:
Barty v Krejcikova
Kerber v Kvitova
Pliskova v Badosa
Muchová/Bencic v Teichmann

0 slam champs on the men’s side Vs 4 on the women’s side. Epic QF’s including reigning RG champ v reigning Wimbledon champ and 3x slam champ Kerber v 2x slam champ Kvitova. Men’s side has uhh Rublev v Paire and Ruud v Zverev.... juicy.

Really hard to justify this one.


Good.
 
As a fan of women’s tennis, I can say that it’s the least of my concerns who makes more money and from what gender. This is a financial agreement between tournament organizers and players organizations. I’m sure organizers are not idiots and must have a clear idea about who generates the money for them. If the women brought more money to the table, I have no doubt they would be paid more than men. I have no problem with that myself but I’m a proponent of meritocracy regardless of gender and race. Let the market forces decide the award prizes.
 
I mean that’s cause you just hate the women’s tour let’s be honest. Someone could offer you a free ticket to a slam final for the women and you’d reject it. You despise the women and constantly attack various women at any point on here so your point doesn’t stand.
Their UTRs do not support what you are saying. I do love your intolerance and extreme generalizations. You just paint everyone you disagree with as a horrible person. You should look up the term BIGOT. Note it doesnt define the reason one is a bigot. Unless you are fine with the other side using any justification to be a bigot like you are.

"I have more pious values than you, therefore I can excuse my intolerance and bigotry"

I would rather watch the WTA myself but only because they play closer to how us mortals play.
 
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This is a financial agreement between tournament organizers and players organizations.

It is confusing because BNP Indian Wells Masters offers the same prize money to both women and men. But Cincy Masters does not. Why?
:unsure:

The BNP Paribas Open offers equal prize money for men and women. For each tour the singles draw size is 128, made up of 96 main draw singles and 48 qualifying singles.
 
It is confusing because BNP Indian Wells Masters offers the same prize money to both women and men. But Cincy Masters does not. Why?
:unsure:

The BNP Paribas Open offers equal prize money for men and women. For each tour the singles draw size is 128, made up of 96 main draw singles and 48 qualifying singles.
As I said, it’s the least of my concerns. It is a private transaction and there could be a million reason to pay equally or not. I would be very happy for women to get equal pay, mind you. It’s just between them and the organizers.
 
That's actually fairer, and what every major should implement. For winning golf's 2021 US Open, Jon Rahm makes 2.2M; Yuka Saso 1M.
 
Why? Not because of the market, or because men run faster than women, but because that's what the organisers' want for commercial reasons. They also pay the money and want their values represented.

It is confusing because BNP Indian Wells Masters offers the same prize money to both women and men. But Cincy Masters does not. Why?
:unsure:

The BNP Paribas Open offers equal prize money for men and women. For each tour the singles draw size is 128, made up of 96 main draw singles and 48 qualifying singles.
 
Same sets played, male tournament has 0 of the big 3, 0 reigning slam champions in the draw. Women’s tournament has all 4 reigning champs (Osaka, Barty and Krejcikova). Also had 9 of the top 10 female while the men just has 6 of the top 10.

E9LoJRVWQAA5O2u.jpg

E9LoJRwWUAsgYPA.jpg


Male QF lineup is:
Medvedev v PCB
Rublev v Paire
Ruud v Zverev
Sonego/Tsitsipas v Berrettini/Felix

Female QF lineup is:
Barty v Krejcikova
Kerber v Kvitova
Pliskova v Badosa
Muchová/Bencic v Teichmann

0 slam champs on the men’s side Vs 4 on the women’s side. Epic QF’s including reigning RG champ v reigning Wimbledon champ and 3x slam champ Kerber v 2x slam champ Kvitova. Men’s side has uhh Rublev v Paire and Ruud v Zverev.... juicy.

Really hard to justify this one.
Will you soon ask for the equal prize money for transgender tennis players? This is getting out of hand!
 
Why? Not because of the market, or because men run faster than women, but because that's what the organisers' want for commercial reasons. They also pay the money and want their values represented.

Don't follow. A Masters is a Masters. But Indian Wells pays equally and Cincy does not. Why would Cincy not want to pay equally "for commercial reasons".
 
Don't follow. A Masters is a Masters. But Indian Wells pays equally and Cincy does not. Why would Cincy not want to pay equally "for commercial reasons".
I can think of several reasons, such as Cincinnati having less attendance for women’s matches, or Indian Wells having certain sponsorships that support women’s tennis, or simply having more attendance.
 
Ah I love when people make this comparison. Because men watch those female models, the Victoria fashion show and know all the supermodels. There’s a reason Bouchard and Kournikova made so much money from their looks and yet hot men like Dimitrov and Lopez don’t. The market is on the men’s side.
Also it’s not obvious this crapola men’s tour draws more. I’m interested to see the SF viewings of a possible Rudd v Paire SF vs Barty v Kerber which was a Wimbledon SF 2 months ago while Ruud v Paire is a slam 1R situation.

Yeah I wish you first check the TV ratings before complaining. Someone above told you "Because men pros bring more viewers than women" to which you just replied "oh really ? I don't think so I find Paire Ruud boring blah blah" well there's 8 billion people on the planet who decide what's interesting to watch, not just you.
Actually go check the viewer count, maybe ?
 
I can think of several reasons, such as Cincinnati having less attendance for women’s matches, or Indian Wells having certain sponsorships that support women’s tennis, or simply having more attendance.

Or IW organizer Larry Ellison wanting to be politically correct and paying equally while the organizers in Cincy do not particularly care about being PC.
 
Or IW organizer Larry Ellison wanting to be politically correct and paying equally while the organizers in Cincy do not particularly care about being PC.
While possible as well, I like to think that organizers are professional business people, whose decisions are based on numbers not politics. I could be wrong though.
 
While possible as well, I like to think that organizers are professional business people, whose decisions are based on numbers not politics. I could be wrong though.
Maybe they can do both? Being politically generates good will and thus draws spectators?
 
Same sets played, male tournament has 0 of the big 3, 0 reigning slam champions in the draw. Women’s tournament has all 4 reigning champs (Osaka, Barty and Krejcikova). Also had 9 of the top 10 female while the men just has 6 of the top 10.

E9LoJRVWQAA5O2u.jpg

E9LoJRwWUAsgYPA.jpg


Male QF lineup is:
Medvedev v PCB
Rublev v Paire
Ruud v Zverev
Sonego/Tsitsipas v Berrettini/Felix

Female QF lineup is:
Barty v Krejcikova
Kerber v Kvitova
Pliskova v Badosa
Muchová/Bencic v Teichmann

0 slam champs on the men’s side Vs 4 on the women’s side. Epic QF’s including reigning RG champ v reigning Wimbledon champ and 3x slam champ Kerber v 2x slam champ Kvitova. Men’s side has uhh Rublev v Paire and Ruud v Zverev.... juicy.

Really hard to justify this one.

They don't adjust prize money on the go and alter it. It's already predetermined. And the womens SF line up now certainly does not look better than who is left in the mens draw.

I get that you want to make a conspiracy out of all this and they are just paying the men more cause they are men and it's discrimination and yada yada yada. But it's not like that. There is a reason to it in this specific instance that the tournament can support upon being asked.
 
Why the insistence that men and women are equal. Men within men aren't even equal even though they're biologically supposed to be more similar. Men get paid differently doing the same thing yet no one whines. When binaries are involved people lose their minds. M v F, B v W, etc....For some reason both ends of the binaries should get the same when one end of the binary isn't even equal within itself
Yup. Also, an inter-sport comparison (on the men's side) will highlight a similar 'unfairness'. You're paid what you're paid and money doesn't fall out of the sky.
 
Ruud and Paire are bringing in more than Barty, Osaka and Kerber? This tournament has 0 big 3 and no Thiem. It has no stars on the men’s side.

You're going to have to present data to back your argument up. Generally, men's tennis attracts more attention. That's just the reality. You can bring out data on how many GS / titles the final 8 won in men's / women's but that's completely irrelevant.
 
They don't adjust prize money on the go and alter it. It's already predetermined. And the womens SF line up now certainly does not look better than who is left in the mens draw.

I get that you want to make a conspiracy out of all this and they are just paying the men more cause they are men and it's discrimination and yada yada yada. But it's not like that. There is a reason to it in this specific instance that the tournament can support upon being asked.

Exactly. Prize money is determined based on years and years of information. To bring up this prize money disparity and make a fuss about it is disingenuous as Hell.
 
You're going to have to present data to back your argument up. Generally, men's tennis attracts more attention. That's just the reality. You can bring out data on how many GS / titles the final 8 won in men's / women's but that's completely irrelevant.
If you want to say that Benoît Paire has had more attention than Naomi Osaka this year than go for it. No idiot believes that. Even the women of Barty or Krejcikova just outrank the nobodies like Ruud or Felix. You think Hurkacz and Felix are outviewing Barty, Osaka and Pliskova?
 
Exactly. Prize money is determined based on years and years of information. To bring up this prize money disparity and make a fuss about it is disingenuous as Hell.
Who do you think will be more watched this year? Barty and Kvitova and Kerber or the barrage of non slam champs on the men’s side who nobody knows. Reckon everyone is watching Paire and Felix on the men’s sized over the established women? I mean genuinely?
 
Who do you think will be more watched this year? Barty and Kvitova and Kerber or the barrage of non slam champs on the men’s side who nobody knows. Reckon everyone is watching Paire and Felix on the men’s sized over the established women? I mean genuinely?

Non slam champs. That's just my opinion.

Having said that, match or outperform the men for years in terms of general attendance and viewership and we can talk about pay inequality. A blip doesn't make a trend.
 
Exactly. Prize money is determined based on years and years of information. To bring up this prize money disparity and make a fuss about it is disingenuous as Hell.

Yea the poster makes it seem like the orgs are predicting wich line ups there will be in the QFs and then sets prizes on it as the tournament progresses. This stuff is already predetermined and they have their reasons for it. I think they are being honest here. The amount of money is being distributed as per who deserves it and not based on if it's a woman or a man, simple as that. And considering the covid situation, they probably have to do it like this. For years now WTA, ITF and ATP has had equal prize money in the biggest tournaments and now when it doesn't happen in one specific instance we make it a discrimination problem. Pathetic.
 
Maybe they can do both? Being politically generates good will and thus draws spectators?
I would love to see general attendance and viewership numbers at both events and maybe it would be clear to us where this disparity comes from. It’s not all conspiracies as some want to believe. There could be a perfectly logical and financially sound explanation.
 
It's 2021 and there's still people arguing against equal pay for women? Good Lord. This forum really is a gathering place for Neanderthals.
 
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