Cincinnati Practice Observations

Open Stance

Open Stance

Professional
I went to the Western and Southern Open today to watch some qualifying and practice. It's nice because I live on the golf course that's adjacent to the WSO facility so I can just walk over to the tennis complex. Here is what I saw...some of it was interesting, some of it maybe not. I think it's just as much fun watching the top pros practice as it is watching matches. Especially when you are right next to the court.

Medvedev was practicing with Rune. He was missing a fair amount and looked a little rusty to me. Rune was more than holding his own against him. I also noticed a few times Rune went to the serve wide and then either come in for a drop volley or hit a drop shot tactic that Djokovic, Nadal and Kyrgios have used against him recently.

Iga was practicing with Anismova. During the 20 minutes I watched them, Amanda was getting the better of the play. Iga looked a little off as well, was missing a lot and showed some frustration to her coach. On the court next to them, Azarenka, Muguruza and Jabur were rotating in playing points with one another. Vika really gets after it in practice.

Serena had an extended practice session and drew the biggest crowd. She was the only player who had a practice court to herself....everyone else was practicing with a fellow pro. I hate to say it but she looks as out of shape in person as she does on TV. She was working with her hitting partner. A lot of stuff right down the middle of the court. She was hitting pretty consistent but probably at 75% pace. What movement she did do looked slow. I also have to say that the intensity of her practice today was lower than the other women.

Alcaraz was playing a practice set against Wawrinka. Alcaraz looked good. Really good. Hitting the corners and he's a very smooth mover on the court. Stan didn't look bad at all but Carlitos was getting the best of him.

I watched Fritz for few minutes. He was hitting with Khachinov. Those two were probably hitting the hardest out of anyone duo out there. Fritz has some serious game when he doesn't have to move a lot. Annacone was there working with him.

Murray was practicing with Tommy Paul. They both looked decent but nothing noteworthy.

They also have additional practice courts set up at my kids' school. I went over there for a little bit on Saturday. These courts are closed to the public but I was able to watch from a distance. Tsitsipas was practicing with Alex de Minaur. Like Medvedev, Tsitsipas was missing a fair amount. I found it interesting at how many errors many of the pros make when practicing. Is it because they aren't as focused? Trying to hit out a little more so they can work to improve by that 1%? Maybe it was just my perception. Not sure.

Qualifying was a little boring. Goffin won his match. Fognini lost his match to Giron.
 
J

jdx2112

Hall of Fame
Open Stance said:
Medvedev was practicing with Rune. He was missing a fair amount and looked a little rusty to me. Rune was more than holding his own against him. I also noticed a few times Rune went to the serve wide and then either come in for a drop volley or hit a drop shot tactic that Djokovic, Nadal and Kyrgios have used against him recently.
Click to expand...
This is the book on Med. I would also add Hugo Humbert’s performance at the ATP Cup. Kid opened the court up all night and came forward.

eventually Med is going to have to play closer to the baseline. Or really start to close the gap faster than he does now. He’s benefitted greatly from the fact a lot of players don’t like coming forward.
 
Open Stance

Open Stance

Professional
Julius Caesar said:
Great review! I hope you get to enjoy some matches too!
Click to expand...
Thanks - what’s really cool watching from so close is you an pick up some very subtle things like grip changes (noticed that Fritz has a pretty pronounced western grip on his FH), how they hold the ball when they toss, how they get into their drop position on the serve, etc. I’ve never gone on the Sunday before the tournament and it was a real treat.
 
Bubcay

Bubcay

Legend
Open Stance said:
I went to the Western and Southern Open today to watch some qualifying and practice. It's nice because I live on the golf course that's adjacent to the WSO facility so I can just walk over to the tennis complex. Here is what I saw...some of it was interesting, some of it maybe not. I think it's just as much fun watching the top pros practice as it is watching matches. Especially when you are right next to the court.

Medvedev was practicing with Rune. He was missing a fair amount and looked a little rusty to me. Rune was more than holding his own against him. I also noticed a few times Rune went to the serve wide and then either come in for a drop volley or hit a drop shot tactic that Djokovic, Nadal and Kyrgios have used against him recently.

Iga was practicing with Anismova. During the 20 minutes I watched them, Amanda was getting the better of the play. Iga looked a little off as well, was missing a lot and showed some frustration to her coach. On the court next to them, Azarenka, Muguruza and Jabur were rotating in playing points with one another. Vika really gets after it in practice.

Serena had an extended practice session and drew the biggest crowd. She was the only player who had a practice court to herself....everyone else was practicing with a fellow pro. I hate to say it but she looks as out of shape in person as she does on TV. She was working with her hitting partner. A lot of stuff right down the middle of the court. She was hitting pretty consistent but probably at 75% pace. What movement she did do looked slow. I also have to say that the intensity of her practice today was lower than the other women.

Alcaraz was playing a practice set against Wawrinka. Alcaraz looked good. Really good. Hitting the corners and he's a very smooth mover on the court. Stan didn't look bad at all but Carlitos was getting the best of him.

I watched Fritz for few minutes. He was hitting with Khachinov. Those two were probably hitting the hardest out of anyone duo out there. Fritz has some serious game when he doesn't have to move a lot. Annacone was there working with him.

Murray was practicing with Tommy Paul. They both looked decent but nothing noteworthy.

They also have additional practice courts set up at my kids' school. I went over there for a little bit on Saturday. These courts are closed to the public but I was able to watch from a distance. Tsitsipas was practicing with Alex de Minaur. Like Medvedev, Tsitsipas was missing a fair amount. I found it interesting at how many errors many of the pros make when practicing. Is it because they aren't as focused? Trying to hit out a little more so they can work to improve by that 1%? Maybe it was just my perception. Not sure.

Qualifying was a little boring. Goffin won his match. Fognini lost his match to Giron.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing this. Great insight into the "behind the scenes" sessions a lot of us don't get to see. Looking forward to the tournament.
 
Bubcay

Bubcay

Legend
Tshooter said:
How did Djoker look?
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
O

optic yellow

Legend
Thanks for the report! I think you are right about the players limit testing during practice. It would make little sense to not use these hitting sessions for this purpose.
 
Jokervich

Jokervich

Hall of Fame
Interesting. From these observations, would you say that Medvedev, Swiatek and Williams go out in 1st round?
 
Open Stance

Open Stance

Professional
Open Stance said:
Serena won't last long even if she gets past Emma. Med needs to play himself into form. As far as Iga goes, it's hard for me to predict anything with the WTA.
Click to expand...
It was also noticeable to me as to how flat Med plays. You don't see as much spin on his ball as most of the other players.
 
O

optic yellow

Legend
The one question that needs answered:

Is Serena being so out of shape her fault or not? I don't really remember her injury history.
 
Open Stance

Open Stance

Professional
More on the Tsitsipas session at our high school courts. First, for an American high school it's a very nice complex with 16 courts (which are free to play on). Perhaps influenced by the fact that we have the tournament in town, tennis is pretty popular here. Our high school boys and girls teams are always in the top 5 in the state of Ohio and there are always people playing on the courts. They spent the last month or so resurfacing the courts to match the WSO surface which is wonderful because the school team and community get to enjoy that for the rest of the year. I'm not sure of this but I assume that the tournament pays for this so they can have use of the courts during the tournament. It was kind of cool and a little surreal to see the likes of Tsitsipas play on the same courts I play on with my son day in and day out.

I actually saw Tsitsipas arrive at the court. His dad was with him along with two other guys I didn't recognize. I didn't see Patrick M at all, in fact I thought I saw him on tv in Canada still with Halep maybe? The courts were at most half full at the time. I saw his dad go to three different courts before they finally decided on which court to play. I think they were looking for a court with two benches so both players and their coaches could sit down and store all their stuff. Once they found a court, Stefano must have taken 5 minutes putting his shoes on. Then he started about a 5 minute dynamic warm up jogging around the court while doing some stretching. While he was doing this, his dad was hitting with one of the other guys in their group. I have to say his dad can play....unlike many other tennis dads. Tsitsipas then started light hitting with one of the other coaches. Then De Minaur showed up and they started some light hitting before ramping it up pretty heavy after a few minutes. I left after watching them for about 20-25 minutes so didn't see them go to serves or play points.

No at no point did Tsitsipas go to the bathroom and no I did not see him practicing texting with his dad. The whole thing was cool to watch.
 
K

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
Watching these guys in practice is a very humbling experience. Also a big reality check for the keyboard warriors on here.

It's equivalent to watching a sports car stuck in 1st gear. Rock Lee before he takes the weights off. Easy difficulty in Fallout before upgrading to Survival difficulty. These guys aren't going near competitive match level and they are crushing inch perfect groundstrokes with frightening ease.

We talk about how they're on social media too much and don't train enough due to Instagram. Yeah, that's BS, and anyone who's seen one of these sessions up close knows it. I think their issue is perhaps inefficiency, neglecting some aspects of the game - but it certainly isn't that they don't care or work hard enough.
 
J

jmnk

Hall of Fame
Open Stance said:
I went to the Western and Southern Open today to watch some qualifying and practice. It's nice because I live on the golf course that's adjacent to the WSO facility so I can just walk over to the tennis complex. Here is what I saw...some of it was interesting, some of it maybe not. I think it's just as much fun watching the top pros practice as it is watching matches. Especially when you are right next to the court.

Medvedev was practicing with Rune. He was missing a fair amount and looked a little rusty to me. Rune was more than holding his own against him. I also noticed a few times Rune went to the serve wide and then either come in for a drop volley or hit a drop shot tactic that Djokovic, Nadal and Kyrgios have used against him recently.

Iga was practicing with Anismova. During the 20 minutes I watched them, Amanda was getting the better of the play. Iga looked a little off as well, was missing a lot and showed some frustration to her coach. On the court next to them, Azarenka, Muguruza and Jabur were rotating in playing points with one another. Vika really gets after it in practice.

Serena had an extended practice session and drew the biggest crowd. She was the only player who had a practice court to herself....everyone else was practicing with a fellow pro. I hate to say it but she looks as out of shape in person as she does on TV. She was working with her hitting partner. A lot of stuff right down the middle of the court. She was hitting pretty consistent but probably at 75% pace. What movement she did do looked slow. I also have to say that the intensity of her practice today was lower than the other women.

Alcaraz was playing a practice set against Wawrinka. Alcaraz looked good. Really good. Hitting the corners and he's a very smooth mover on the court. Stan didn't look bad at all but Carlitos was getting the best of him.

I watched Fritz for few minutes. He was hitting with Khachinov. Those two were probably hitting the hardest out of anyone duo out there. Fritz has some serious game when he doesn't have to move a lot. Annacone was there working with him.

Murray was practicing with Tommy Paul. They both looked decent but nothing noteworthy.

They also have additional practice courts set up at my kids' school. I went over there for a little bit on Saturday. These courts are closed to the public but I was able to watch from a distance. Tsitsipas was practicing with Alex de Minaur. Like Medvedev, Tsitsipas was missing a fair amount. I found it interesting at how many errors many of the pros make when practicing. Is it because they aren't as focused? Trying to hit out a little more so they can work to improve by that 1%? Maybe it was just my perception. Not sure.

Qualifying was a little boring. Goffin won his match. Fognini lost his match to Giron.
Click to expand...
This is excellent writeup. I was there as well. I've also watched Rublev/Bautista Agut practice - I think they, Rublev in particular, just absolutely crushed the ball.

few additional notes. When @Open Stance says "Serena had an extended practice session and drew the biggest crowd" it means that by the time she showed on court you could not get close enough to take a peek at her. It was absolutely packed. She was practicing on court next to Alcaraz/Wawrinka, and she most definitely was more popular. Unfortunately I too agree that while she still hits a solid ball she does not seem to have the movement or desire anymore.

I was actually surprised how well Wawrinka looked. She is not beating Alcaraz in a match anymore, I do not think, but he is not a pushover.

I've seen Medvedev before - but I'm always surprised how tall he is. And for his weird looking forehand he can crank it so cleanly.

I've missed Fognini's broken racket being thrown into the stands by a whisker :( so that's a bummer ;)
 
O

optic yellow

Legend
Open Stance said:
More on the Tsitsipas session at our high school courts. First, for an American high school it's a very nice complex with 16 courts (which are free to play on). Perhaps influenced by the fact that we have the tournament in town, tennis is pretty popular here. Our high school boys and girls teams are always in the top 5 in the state of Ohio and there are always people playing on the courts. They spent the last month or so resurfacing the courts to match the WSO surface which is wonderful because the school team and community get to enjoy that for the rest of the year. I'm not sure of this but I assume that the tournament pays for this so they can have use of the courts during the tournament. It was kind of cool and a little surreal to see the likes of Tsitsipas play on the same courts I play on with my son day in and day out.
Click to expand...
Damn that sounds like a dream.
I actually saw Tsitsipas arrive at the court. His dad was with him along with two other guys I didn't recognize. I didn't see Patrick M at all, in fact I thought I saw him on tv in Canada still with Halep maybe? The courts were at most half full at the time. I saw his dad go to three different courts before they finally decided on which court to play. I think they were looking for a court with two benches so both players and their coaches could sit down and store all their stuff. Once they found a court, Stefano must have taken 5 minutes putting his shoes on. Then he started about a 5 minute dynamic warm up jogging around the court while doing some stretching. While he was doing this, his dad was hitting with one of the other guys in their group. I have to say his dad can play....unlike many other tennis dads. Tsitsipas then started light hitting with one of the other coaches. Then De Minaur showed up and they started some light hitting before ramping it up pretty heavy after a few minutes. I left after watching them for about 20-25 minutes so didn't see them go to serves or play points.

No at no point did Tsitsipas go to the bathroom and no I did not see him practicing texting with his dad. The whole thing was cool to watch.
Click to expand...
How is his dad's 1HBH?
 
guanzishou

guanzishou

G.O.A.T.
Thanks for the share, OP. Very interesting!

I watched so many ATP and WTA players practicing every year at the Brisbane event, from 2010 to 2020.

It was so cool to watch players practicing, from so very up close. I was also able to watch players practicing inside the Pat Rafter Arena and I sat right near the edge of the court.

I watched Roddick, Fish, Querrey, Fritz, Kyrgios, Tomic, Federer (watched his QF match from his players box), Hewitt, Raonic, Tsitsipas brothers, Feliciano, Verdasco, Stepanek, Serena, Petkovic, Azarenka, Kuznetsova, Groth, Kokkinakis, Soderling, Mannarino, Eubanks, Ryan Harrison, Nishikori, Nishioka, Petrova, Bartoli, Vania King, Amer Delic, and many others....

I just wish they have ATP 250 and WTA events back again in Brisbane.
 
octobrina10

octobrina10

Talk Tennis Guru
aliceinpains said:
Nadal had 3 sessions today. One of them was from 7pm to 830 pm.
Click to expand...
Rafa was scheduled to practice on Sunday, but he didn't practice due to rain. "3 sessions" means that the morning session was rescheduled for the evening, but the tournament morning schedule wasn't edited, and two evening sessions were scheduled for the same time.
 
A

aliceinpains

Rookie
octobrina10 said:
Rafa was scheduled to practice on Sunday, but he didn't practice due to rain. "3 sessions" means that the morning session was rescheduled for the evening, but the tournament morning schedule wasn't edited, and two evening sessions were scheduled for the same time.
Click to expand...

Usually if the player doesn't practice as scheduled,s the tournament redues the schedule?
 
J

jmnk

Hall of Fame
aliceinpains said:
Usually if the player doesn't practice as scheduled,s the tournament redues the schedule?
Click to expand...
you would think so. While I love everything about Cinci tournament the schedule updates on the website and on-site displays is terrible. They were still giving out sheets with order of play that was _supposed_ to happen even though rain obviously messed that up. When I asked for updated one they pointed me to the on-site digital displays - because, you know, the attendant literally said they were not going to reprint new schedule to _save the paper_. I'm not kidding. Then I said that digital displays are not updated either - and actually felt bad for the poor guy in the information desk.

Earlier today their website was showing Garcia vs Martic match scheduled for tomorrow (Tuesday) _while that match was actually going on late Monday evening. They also had Rosolska/Routliffe doubles pair playing tomorrow second round match _while they lost first round match earlier today_.

But hey, can't complain too much. There's absolutely highest level tennis 11am - 11.59PM going on there, on multiple courts at the same time. Really the only problem is which match to pick to watch.

Crowds at Nadal practice today were comparable to Serena's from yesterday. I'm not that big of Nadal fan - but he grows on me. He is humble, hard working, there's really no hangers-on in his camp (like you know, others have coach+hitting partner+trainer+balls pickers+ball feeding dude+emotional support dude+not sure what he is for+I think I remember his name but I'm not 100% sure dude), he appreciates the crowds, he even picks the balls. Now - one thing about Nadal. So obviously they are all pros, everyone can hit the ball, everyone can move. But Nadal's combination of body rotation and hand speed is something else. When he hits freely during practice - there's nothing else like that.

Also, a lot of people assume Raducanu is not hard working. I don't think so. She does work, she tries - she is simply not _that_ good. She is average size/height, there's really not a single weapon she can rely on.

And after today's debacle in Leylah's match I'm not sure Leylah is any better either since her mental strength (which I thought was her thing) is not that great either.

Watching Sabalenka practicing with Haddad was fun - they are big, strong women. Sure, they miss a lot too - but that is some serious hitting going on.

A bit worried about Iga's serve problem, she gets discouraged when it's not going in, and even more when it comes back. And Badosa was returning those with some purpose. But she shouldn't be. She needs to accept it is what it is, make it just OK, and focus on other areas. She is one of only few girls that uses angles/sides - most women try to hit hard and deep. Which leads to errors. Iga, when she gets a shorter ball, hits toward the side and short rather than hard and deep. That's not an outright winner, but gets opponent running side to side, and eventually the winner will come. Hard to judge her current level - she has already played and won more matches this year than many other players over the course of three years, so I can see how she is just spent. Mentally and physically.

It's also interesting like these pros use the _very same drills that any rec players should be doing_: hand feeding, swinging forehands off hand fed balls for hand speed, returning serves when the server is at just past the service line (so every server is in, and fast). Nothing really extraordinary.

It dawned on me that being a tennis pro is actually a really boring job. Like you go on court every fre...king day, hit the same balls every day, spend time with the same few folks every day, and on match day you have an extra stress of, well, match. I think they play for these few moments when after a morning winning match they have (most) of the day off, basking in glory of advancing, and looking at other players stressing about upcoming match that day.
 
Last edited:
O

optic yellow

Legend
jmnk said:
Also, a lot of people assume Raducanu is not hard working. I don't think so. She does work, she tries - she is simply not _that_ good. She is average size/height, there's really not a single weapon she can rely on.
Click to expand...
She won USO with a lot of creative point construction. Has she gone away from this recently?
 
O

optic yellow

Legend
jmnk said:
The only time I see 'point construction' is _after_ the point has been played. To me it's a commentator's speak for "a player happened to hit three solid shots in a row".
Click to expand...
By that I just mean she hit a variety of shots basically yeah. But she seemed to have a good intuitive sense about what to hit when.
 
J

JustMy2Cents

Hall of Fame
jmnk said:
Crowds at Nadal practice today were comparable to Serena's from yesterday. I'm not that big of Nadal fan - but he grows on me. He is humble, hard working, there's really no hangers-on in his camp (like you know, others have coach+hitting partner+trainer+balls pickers+ball feeding dude+emotional support dude+not sure what he is for+I think I remember his name but I'm not 100% sure dude), he appreciates the crowds, he even picks the balls. Now - one thing about Nadal. So obviously they are all pros, everyone can hit the ball, everyone can move. But Nadal's combination of body rotation and hand speed is something else. When he hits freely during practice - there's nothing else like that.
Click to expand...
a couple of videos to illustrate the above re Rafa's practice
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559474798325075969
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559419793526210560
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559421259041185796
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559420383002071042
 
Lukhas

Lukhas

Legend
Open Stance said:
Alcaraz was playing a practice set against Wawrinka. Alcaraz looked good. Really good. Hitting the corners and he's a very smooth mover on the court. Stan didn't look bad at all but Carlitos was getting the best of him.
Click to expand...
It seems that Tennis TV got a few clips of that practice between Wawrinka and Alcaraz.

 
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