Cincy 2010 QF: Rafael Nadal [1] vs Marcos Baghdatis

[mltaylor]

I don't understand. If Rafa is such a warrior why does he need to rest for future matches. Play through injuries or don't play at all. If the way he plays brings this on him then well.....

Federer probably shouldn't mention he wasn't up to his best either after he loses.

I thought I heard Roddick say something like - "if you play there's no excuses"
Quite frankly Roddick has earned my respect and I don't even like his game at all. He definitely gives everything he has every match and has stayed relatively injury free. I like Federer and rooted for him in WB '09 but I wish Roddick had gotten it now.

I may start rooting more for Roddick now that he will probably retire sometime soon. Go Roddick for US Open 2010!

That's all

 

[ballboy48]

They've already played on real hard courts you know including Beijing and Paris indoor (and usually Baghs does most of the running)

Not this time, LOL

 

[ballboy48]

It will depend on the state of his blisters and how he's recovered (energywise) from yesterday's long match in scorching conditions. Gamewise, he does everything better than Baghs, so I don't see how Baghs could hurt him.

Bolded for truth

 

[Netspirit]

Nadal will now have to work hard to raise his level for the USO.

That intensive training may shorten his career.

 

[Mustard]

Paris Indoor is not really fast, not compared to the old Madrid Indoor.

 

[ballboy48]

This time last year:

Nadal
1 Australian Open
2 Indian Wells
2 Canadas
1 Olympic Gold in Beijing

Del Potro
No tournament win at masters series level or above

Delpo, won USO, it's the only fast HC that counts. Nadal had many more attempts than Delpo too. Delpo did it on a much faster pace than Nadal since the *******s like to use the age factor so often.

 

[P_Agony]

This time last year:

Nadal
1 Australian Open
2 Indian Wells
2 Canadas
1 Olympic Gold in Beijing

Del Potro
No tournament win at masters series level or above

Yep, people are quick to overrate players. DP also got two wins over Fed and suddenly everyone said he owns him, as if Fed's past 6 wins don't count. DP is an excellent player and his GS win was remarkable (beating Fedal back to back), but as far as results go, Nadal is BY FAR the superior HC player.

 

[dmt]

so ballboy, was federer in his prime in 04 and 07?

 

[powerangle]

the old busted man was past his prime. If kurten was anywhere near his best, he would have dominated the fo in 04. Yeah that 17 year old baby turned out to be great but he was still a 17 year old baby at the time, not a mjor champion

Which is why both Fed's and Nadal's respective losses are not exactly great things aren't they? With Baghdatis being an old veteran and all. Anyway you slice it, this result doesn't help confirm/support Nadal's supposed outright favorite status for USO.

Things can change of course, but Nadal has been way less than spectacular.

 

[Mustard]

Delpo, won USO, it's the only fast HC that counts. Nadal had many more attempts than Delpo too. Delpo did it on a much faster pace than Nadal since the *******s like to use the age factor so often.

You're missing the point. Del Potro not winning any tournament at MS level or above this time last year didn't stop him going on to win the US Open. So are you seriously going to say that Nadal has no chance to win the US Open this year?

 

[P_Agony]

Delpo, won USO, it's the only fast HC that counts. Nadal had many more attempts than Delpo too. Delpo did it on a much faster pace than Nadal since the *******s like to use the age factor so often.

Delpo might become a superior HC player than Nadal in the future, but seriously:

1 slam + multiple MS + Olympic gold medal >>> 1 slam.

IF Delpo wins another HC slam then there's something to discuss.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

You're missing the point. Del Potro not winning any tournament at MS level or above this time last year didn't stop him going on to win the US Open. So are you seriously going to say that Nadal has no chance to win the US Open this year?

No, but to say losing a match like this DOES NOT affect his chances to win the Open is not right either. And I think the oddsmakers would disagree w/ you on that one.

 

[Blinkism]

This time last year:

Nadal
1 Australian Open
2 Indian Wells
2 Canadas
1 Olympic Gold in Beijing

Del Potro
No tournament win at masters series level or above

Don't forget a Madrid Masters title and a Dubai title.

 

[ballboy48]

so ballboy, was federer in his prime in 04 and 07?

Oh come on, stop being a baby. This is how it works when Nadal loses. Same will happen tomorrow if Fed loses. It's just how the world works.

 

[thejoe]

Delpo might become a superior HC player than Nadal in the future, but seriously:

1 slam + multiple MS + Olympic gold medal >>> 1 slam.

IF Delpo wins another HC slam then there's something to discuss.

But, you're missing the crucial point that while he has far, far less statistical accomplishments than Nadal, the fact that he's a few years younger makes him better

 

[ballboy48]

You're missing the point. Del Potro not winning any tournament at MS level or above this time last year didn't stop him going on to win the US Open. So are you seriously going to say that Nadal has no chance to win the US Open this year?

Of course Nadal has a chance, he's probably in the top 5.

 

[Mustard]

Don't forget a Madrid Masters title and a Dubai title.

Oh yes, the 2005 Madrid title. How did I forget that? That's a masters series event and the only indoor title for Nadal to date. Dubai is a 500 event.

 

[P_Agony]

Don't forget a Madrid Masters title and a Dubai title.

Yep. DP might be a better HC player in their specific matchup, but Nadal is far more accomplished on hard courts than DP.

 

[Mustard]

Of course Nadal has a chance, he's probably in the top 5.

Well then

 

[Netspirit]

You're missing the point. Del Potro not winning any tournament at MS level or above this time last year didn't stop him going on to win the US Open. So are you seriously going to say that Nadal has no chance to win the US Open this year?

He does have a chance. In both cases, that is (or will be) a fluke, like Federer's RG 2009.

Nadal has never been the best on hard courts, just like Federer has never been the best on clay. They can win those tournaments, but only if they get easy draws, some luck, and insane dedication.

 

[Blinkism]

Oh yes, the 2005 Madrid title. How did I forget that? That's a masters series event and the only indoor title for Nadal to date. Dubai is a 500 event.

That's true, but it is a fairly fast surface and he did beat Federer in his very prime year (2006) to win that title, so it's just a bit more meaningful than any other average 500 title in Nadal's trophy cabinet, IMO.

 

[ballboy48]

Delpo might become a superior HC player than Nadal in the future, but seriously:

1 slam + multiple MS + Olympic gold medal >>> 1 slam.

IF Delpo wins another HC slam then there's something to discuss.

Agreed, but *******s way overrate Nadal's chances. What is being overlooked is that Nadal is in his PRIME! Yet most of the extreme *******s want to put him in the same league as Federer. Check that crazy veroniquem.

 

[P_Agony]

But, you're missing the crucial point that while he has far, far less statistical accomplishments than Nadal, the fact that he's a few years younger makes him better

LOL.

Well, thank god you're here to correct me

BTW Roger played excellent against Davy.

 

[ballboy48]

Well then

What well then? I never denied Nadal doesn't have a chance. He's the number 1 player in the world for godsakes. But your extreme zealot supporters like to compare Nadal's prime to Fed's prime, so here it is!

 

[blackfrido]

So anyway, if Nadal wasn't injured, could it be that he didn't want to face fed on a fast hard court??

oh man, you nailed it. a Nadal se le esta frunciendo el culo

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Oh yes, the 2005 Madrid title. How did I forget that? That's a masters series event and the only indoor title for Nadal to date. Dubai is a 500 event.

Nadal hasn't defeated a top 8 player on HC in 16 months. In the 16 months prior to his USO Title, Del Potro defeated 6 top 8 players on HC.

 

[P_Agony]

Agreed, but *******s way overrate Nadal's chances. What is being overlooked is that Nadal is in his PRIME! Yet most of the extreme *******s want to put him in the same league as Federer. Check that crazy veroniquem.

veroniquem is a troll and a **** IMO, yes, but Blinky and Mustard are great.

 

[dParis]

What the *******s are not realizing is that he is in HIS PRIME! At his peak!

It's possible we are seeing Nadal just to the Right of his prime. I'm not saying his days of success are behind him, I'm just saying...

I'm glad baggy won. We need an arab in the mix of great players...now that arazi and el aynaoui are long gone.

I agree, it would add a degree of interest in the ATP tapestry. Did you have a particular Arab player in mind?

 

[Blinkism]

What well then? I never denied Nadal doesn't have a chance. He's the number 1 player in the world for godsakes. But your extreme zealot supporters like to compare Nadal's prime to Fed's prime, so here it is!

What is this "your". Does your simple brain not comprehend that some fans have differing opinions?

Or is everything black and white for you?

 

[P_Agony]

Nadal hasn't defeated a top 8 player on HC in 16 months. In the 16 months prior to his USO Title, Del Potro defeated 6 top 8 players on HC.

But James, isn't a player's superiority on a given surface determined by his results on that surface? DP has the potential to surpass Nadal, but he's still yet to win a MS title and Nadal has plenty of those. Nadal didn't have much success on hard courts in the past year or so but overall his HC career is better than DP's. That might change in the future.

 

[Mustard]

Nadal hasn't defeated a top 8 player on HC in 16 months. In the 16 months prior to his USO Title, Del Potro defeated 6 top 8 players on HC.

Who was the last one? Was it Murray in the 2009 Indian Wells final?

 

[ballboy48]

What is this "your". Does your simple brain not comprehend that some fans have differing opinions?

Or is everything black and white for you?

As far as I know atoms are quantized, so yes in essence everything IS black and white. That it is not seen that way is a human illusion.

 

[powerangle]

But James, isn't a player's superiority on a given surface determined by his results on that surface? DP has the potential to surpass Nadal, but he's still yet to win a MS title and Nadal has plenty of those. Nadal didn't have much success on hard courts in the past year or so but overall his HC career is better than DP's. That might change in the future.

Exactly. It's based on results. Which is why Fed is the most accomplished player of the Open Era. "On pace", "he's younger", "will probably overtake" are nice...but it hasn't been proven yet.

 

[Mustard]

But James, isn't a player's superiority on a given surface determined by his results on that surface? DP has the potential to surpass Nadal, but he's still yet to win a MS title and Nadal has plenty of those. Nadal didn't have much success on hard courts in the past year or so but overall his HC career is better than DP's. That might change in the future.

And Nadal is still very consistent in hardcourt tournaments and he finds a way to win a lot of matches on hardcourt even when he's playing poorly. He's getting to at least the quarter finals every time.

 

[powerangle]

And Nadal is still very consistent in hardcourt tournaments and he finds a way to win a lot of matches on hardcourt even when he's playing poorly. He's getting to at least the quarter finals every time.

Excellent stat for Nadal, for sure.

 

[The-Champ]

I agree, it would add a degree of interest in the ATP tapestry. Did you have a particular Arab player in mind?

Most successful arab players are usually from Morocco. i dont know if there are new talents coming up. It would have been great to see someone with Al aynaoui's game though. That forehand was monster!

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

But James, isn't a player's superiority on a given surface determined by his results on that surface? DP has the potential to surpass Nadal, but he's still yet to win a MS title and Nadal has plenty of those. Nadal didn't have much success on hard courts in the past year or so but overall his HC career is better than DP's. That might change in the future.

I think you and I are adressing different issues. I'm talking about Nadal's chances heading to the Open, and the argument is that Del Potro hadn't accomplished anything (in some people's eyes) yet still won the Open, so Nadal should be able to do the same. Of course Nadal is more accomplished on HC - doesn't mean he'll do what DelPo was able to do last year, is my point.

Who was the last one? Was it Murray in the 2009 Indian Wells final?

Yes.

 

[ballboy48]

And Nadal is still very consistent in hardcourt tournaments and he finds a way to win a lot of matches on hardcourt even when he's playing poorly. He's getting to at least the quarter finals every time.

C;mon he didn't beat Benneteau. Benny cramped and choked.

 

[P_Agony]

And Nadal is still very consistent in hardcourt tournaments and he finds a way to win a lot of matches on hardcourt even when he's playing poorly. He's getting to at least the quarter finals every time.

I agree. Nadal is very underrated on hard courts. He's very capable and consistent on this surface.

The only players other than Fed with comparable results on HC are Roddick and Safin. Those are the top 4 most accomplished players on that surface in the last decade. Hewitt might be 5th?

 

[The-Champ]

I agree. Nadal is very underrated on hard courts. He's very capable and consistent on this surface.

The only player other than Fed with comparable results on HC is Roddick. Those are the top 3 most accomplished players on that surface.

Roddick and Djokovic are more accomplished....more slam finals.

 

[P_Agony]

I think you and I are adressing different issues. I'm talking about Nadal's chances heading to the Open, and the argument is that Del Potro hadn't accomplished anything (in some people's eyes) yet still won the Open, so Nadal should be able to do the same. Of course Nadal is more accomplished on HC - doesn't mean he'll do what DelPo was able to do last year, is my point.

Oh, then I agree

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

Right now to me Nadal's still 3rd favorite going into the Open. I'd say Fed and Murray are the only 2 to look reasonably impressive in Canada/Cincy.

Fed
Murray
-gap-
Nadal
-gap-
Roddick
Djokovic
Berdych
Soderling

Honestly it's hard for me to see anyone other than those top 3 winning it.

 

[Blinkism]

I agree. Nadal is very underrated on hard courts. He's very capable and consistent on this surface.

The only players other than Fed with comparable results on HC are Roddick and Safin. Those are the top 4 most accomplished players on that surface in the last decade. Hewitt might be 5th?

Don't forget Djoker. Even if he never does anything big ever again, he still had a good stretch to make the USO final, win the AO Open, Miami, Indian Wells, Montreal, Paris, and a bunch of other HC finals.

 

[P_Agony]

Roddick and Djokovic are more accomplished....more slam finals.

I changed my post, but I disagree about Djokovic.

Nadal has more MS titles + gold medal. Djokovic only reached one more final.

 

[Mustard]

I agree. Nadal is very underrated on hard courts. He's very capable and consistent on this surface.

The only players other than Fed with comparable results on HC are Roddick and Safin. Those are the top 4 most accomplished players on that surface in the last decade. Hewitt might be 5th?

Nadal sets such amazingly high standards in that April-July period of the year on the clay and grass that when his performances are almost inevitably not as good in the North American hardcourt summer, he gets bashed by many fans. In 2008, Nadal kept his amazing form going after Wimbledon by winning Toronto, losing the semis of Cincinnati and then winning the Beijing Olympics, but he still lost at the US Open.

I'm confident that Nadal wants to play his best tennis of this North American hardcourt summer at the US Open. If he does, the below standard performances of Toronto and Cincinnati won't really matter much.

 

[jamesblakefan#1]

I agree. Nadal is very underrated on hard courts. He's very capable and consistent on this surface.

The only players other than Fed with comparable results on HC are Roddick and Safin. Those are the top 4 most accomplished players on that surface in the last decade. Hewitt might be 5th?

I'd put Hewitt over Nadal TBH. A USO title, another final, AO final, and 2 YEC titles, as well as 2 IW titles. Nadal has a few more MS titles, but Hewitt did better overall in the slams all things considered.

 

[ballboy48]

Nadal sets such amazingly high standards in that April-July period of the year on the clay and grass that when his performances are almost inevitably not as good in the North American hardcourt summer, he gets bashed by many fans. In 2008, Nadal kept his amazing form going after Wimbledon by winning Toronto, losing the semis of Cincinnati and then winning the Beijing Olympics, but he still lost at the US Open.

I'm confident that Nadal wants to play his best tennis of this North American hardcourt summer at the US Open. If he does, the below standard performances of Toronto and Cincinnati won't really matter much.

That's true of all the other top 5 contenders too.

 

[The-Champ]

Chances at the USO, IMO:

1. Fed
2. Murray
3. Djokovic
4. Davydenko
5. Nalbandian
6. Berdych
7. Roddick
8. Hewitt
9. Cilic
10. Nads
11. Söderling

 

[drakulie]

They are showing the match on ESPN 2 right now. Perhaps Nadal will win this time.

 

[Love Game]

Yep, people are quick to overrate players. DP also got two wins over Fed and suddenly everyone said he owns him, as if Fed's past 6 wins don't count. DP is an excellent player and his GS win was remarkable (beating Fedal back to back), but as far as results go, Nadal is BY FAR the superior HC player.

Nadal "by far superior" to Delpo on HC? Not exactly!!! :mrgreen: