Cincy Draw sucks now

Not on purpose (but maybe), but Rafa dropping Cincy was very beneficial on his part, as he blocks Djoker or Fed from points (possibly a significant amount too).

Tourneys really should force the players to make a decision before Sunday that way they can rearrange some things if need be.

Don't think Rafa really cares or thinks about (and shouldn't have to) it this way, but it will likely benefit him.

This also hurts the tourney and draw now, as Fed v Djoker final would be a pretty good showdown after recent events.

Shame.



 

tonylg

Semi-Pro
It's pure speculation, but given Rafa's personality I find it impossible to believe that a) He didn't make the decision days ago and b) He didn't take the Djokovic/Federer issue into account.

It's not like the Montreal final was a bruising epic. If you pull out after a 1 hour walkover, you were always going to pull out. He just delayed the announcement to get Roger and Novak on the same side of the draw.
 
It's pure speculation, but given Rafa's personality I find it impossible to believe that a) He didn't make the decision days ago and b) He didn't take the Djokovic/Federer issue into account.

It's not like the Montreal final was a bruising epic. If you pull out after a 1 hour walkover, you were always going to pull out. He just delayed the announcement to get Roger and Novak on the same side of the draw.
Yeah, I don't see him doing that or caring to over analyze it like that. However, I do think he knew he was not going to play once he was in the SF.
 

zep

Hall of Fame
It's pure speculation, but given Rafa's personality I find it impossible to believe that a) He didn't make the decision days ago and b) He didn't take the Djokovic/Federer issue into account.

It's not like the Montreal final was a bruising epic. If you pull out after a 1 hour walkover, you were always going to pull out. He just delayed the announcement to get Roger and Novak on the same side of the draw.
And when Federer withdraws from Bercy after Basel does he do it before the draw? lol
 
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ChrisRF

Hall of Fame
It's pure speculation, but given Rafa's personality I find it impossible to believe that a) He didn't make the decision days ago and b) He didn't take the Djokovic/Federer issue into account.

It's not like the Montreal final was a bruising epic. If you pull out after a 1 hour walkover, you were always going to pull out. He just delayed the announcement to get Roger and Novak on the same side of the draw.
And also after a real walkover just before!

Anyway, such draw situations is the biggest issue of back-to-back tournaments IMO. With Nadal the draw would have been as equally distributed as possible, but now it just sucks and it’s a shame that Federer and Djokovic are in the same half.

Now I hope that Murray somehow reaches the final. That would be a great story.
 
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Krish0608

Hall of Fame
Rafa was always going to withdraw. I think this is just a very calculative move on his team's part. He doesn't want to meet Fedovic before the Open and suffer a possible loss of confidence right before the Open. Wise move, IMO.
 

weakera

Hall of Fame
It's pure speculation, but given Rafa's personality I find it impossible to believe that a) He didn't make the decision days ago and b) He didn't take the Djokovic/Federer issue into account.

It's not like the Montreal final was a bruising epic. If you pull out after a 1 hour walkover, you were always going to pull out. He just delayed the announcement to get Roger and Novak on the same side of the draw.
There's no way he made the decision days ago. Had he lost QF or SF he plays Cincy, maybe even had he lost the final. Winning was the ticket, locked up #2 seed anyway.
 

Rogfan

Semi-Pro
Well if the rule allows it why not do it. I don’t blame Nadal for it. Murray did the same in USO 2016 and it was way worse as it’s a slam. It’s up to ATO to change the rule around this
 

zep

Hall of Fame
Rafa was always going to withdraw. I think this is just a very calculative move on his team's part. He doesn't want to meet Fedovic before the Open and suffer a possible loss of confidence right before the Open. Wise move, IMO.
He would have played if he had lost the final to secure the #2 seed. It may prove to be a big difference. Although knowing how the US Open do their draws behind the scene, I am almost certain that they will put Federer and Nadal in the same half.
 

zep

Hall of Fame
Well if the rule allows it why not do it. I don’t blame Nadal for it. Murray did the same in USO 2016 and it was way worse as it’s a slam. It’s up to ATO to change the rule around this
Federer has done it many times in his career at Paris Bercy after playing the Basel final, funny how no one seems to remember that or have an issue with that. Murray's case was special because he actually could have withdrawn before the draw. But when you have back to back tournaments you usually don't even play your QF by the time the draw of the next tournament is announced. That's way too early. Nadal would have definitely played Cincy if he had lost to Fognini.
 
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He just delayed the announcement to get Roger and Novak on the same side of the draw.
Nah he delayed the announcement because no matter how thin but there was a possibility of him losing in the final or before in Montreal and then the no. 2 seed at USO would have been on Roger's racquet but now it's not.
Now even if Roger wins Cincy then also Rafa will be seed number 2 at USO.
If Rafa would have lost in the finals then he would have gone to Cincy with the same amount of fatigue that he now has.
 

tonylg

Semi-Pro
Nah he delayed the announcement because no matter how thin but there was a possibility of him losing in the final or before in Montreal and then the no. 2 seed at USO would have been on Roger's racquet but now it's not.
Now even if Roger wins Cincy then also Rafa will be seed number 2 at USO.
If Rafa would have lost in the finals then he would have gone to Cincy with the same amount of fatigue that he now has.
As I said, it's all speculation.

I see your point and agree that it's a possible explanation, as is the possibility that he made the decision prior.
 

zep

Hall of Fame
As I said, it's all speculation.

I see your point and agree that it's a possible explanation, as is the possibility that he made the decision prior.
The thing is the Cincy draw was made at the same time he was playing Fognini in QF. So he would have had to withdraw even before that for the Cincy draw to take that into account. It's certain that he would have played Cincy like he did in 2017 if he had lost so early. After the draw is made it doesn't matter when he pulls out.
 

octobrina10

G.O.A.T.
Not on purpose (but maybe), but Rafa dropping Cincy was very beneficial on his part, as he blocks Djoker or Fed from points (possibly a significant amount too).

Tourneys really should force the players to make a decision before Sunday that way they can rearrange some things if need be.

Don't think Rafa really cares or thinks about (and shouldn't have to) it this way, but it will likely benefit him.

This also hurts the tourney and draw now, as Fed v Djoker final would be a pretty good showdown after recent events.

Shame.



Fedfan, did you made the same suggestion in 2017, when Fed pulled out of the Paris Masters on Sunday evening (after the draw was made), because he wanted to rest? :unsure:
Metro, 31 Oct 2017: ¤¤ The Swiss star announced on Sunday, following his victory over Juan Martin del Potro in the final of the Swiss Indoors in Basel, that he would not be taking part. The world No 2 wishes to rest ahead of the ATP World Tour Finals, thus maintaining his approach of prioritising his fitness above all else.¤¤
 

zep

Hall of Fame
Fedfan, did you made the same suggestion in 2017, when Fed pulled out of the Paris Masters on Sunday evening (after the draw was made), because he wanted to rest? :unsure:
Metro, 31 Oct 2017: ¤¤ The Swiss star announced on Sunday, following his victory over Juan Martin del Potro in the final of the Swiss Indoors in Basel, that he would not be taking part. The world No 2 wishes to rest ahead of the ATP World Tour Finals, thus maintaining his approach of prioritising his fitness above all else.¤¤
Not just 2017, I remember Federer pulled out of Bercy after losing to Del Potro in the Basel final in 2012 and I won't be surprised if he has done it a few times before that as well. You can't blame the players in this situation.
 

octobrina10

G.O.A.T.
By now everyone should have understood that Nadal and his team are calculation machines as far as benefits on tour are concerned and should avoid talking about "personal inclinations" that lead to this or that decision or statement.

:cool:
By now, everyone should have understood that Fed devotees are machines that mass-produce imaginary stories about Rafa & his team.
 

raph6

Semi-Pro
The organizers put him alone to make him alone thinking he would come and now they are screwed hahaha ! I wonder who will vulture a final on this side of the draw
 

van_Loederen

Semi-Pro
Tourneys really should force the players to make a decision before Sunday that way they can rearrange some things if need be.
in reality they are doing the opposite as they want to sell tickets.
so you would need to force the ATP to force the tournaments to force the players.

and what if a player gets injured last minute during training?
 
The organizers put him alone to make him alone thinking he would come and now they are screwed hahaha ! I wonder who will vulture a final on this side of the draw
The organizers knew that most probably he wouldn't come if history and the state of the tour(players unable to beat the big3) was anything to go by and still he is alone in his half tells me that the top draws aren't really rigged. I think R1-3 are more likely to be rigged for specific match ups of same nationality players, two big names in super bad form so that atleast one of them makes it to the second round.
 
It's pure speculation, but given Rafa's personality I find it impossible to believe that a) He didn't make the decision days ago and b) He didn't take the Djokovic/Federer issue into account.

It's not like the Montreal final was a bruising epic. If you pull out after a 1 hour walkover, you were always going to pull out. He just delayed the announcement to get Roger and Novak on the same side of the draw.
While this is otherwise an excellent post, I feel it is rather generous to credit Bull with having a personality.
 

Raul_SJ

Legend
Not on purpose (but maybe), but Rafa dropping Cincy was very beneficial on his part, as he blocks Djoker or Fed from points (possibly a significant amount too).

Tourneys really should force the players to make a decision before Sunday that way they can rearrange some things if need be.

Don't think Rafa really cares or thinks about (and shouldn't have to) it this way, but it will likely benefit him.

This also hurts the tourney and draw now, as Fed v Djoker final would be a pretty good showdown after recent events.

Shame.



What's going on? Cincy is considered the fifth slam by many. Why is Rafa not playing Cincy?

:(
 
Fedfan, did you made the same suggestion in 2017, when Fed pulled out of the Paris Masters on Sunday evening (after the draw was made), because he wanted to rest? :unsure:
Metro, 31 Oct 2017: ¤¤ The Swiss star announced on Sunday, following his victory over Juan Martin del Potro in the final of the Swiss Indoors in Basel, that he would not be taking part. The world No 2 wishes to rest ahead of the ATP World Tour Finals, thus maintaining his approach of prioritising his fitness above all else.¤¤
Once again, as I put this in the thread (if you actually read the whole thing), that this was not on Rafa. However, if you can not see how this is bad for the Cincy tourney and entertainment, then you are being too bias.

It is not on the player, but the tourney to prepare better.
 

octobrina10

G.O.A.T.
Once again, as I put this in the thread (if you actually read the whole thing), that this was not on Rafa. However, if you can not see how this is bad for the Cincy tourney and entertainment, then you are being too bias.

It is not on the player, but the tourney to prepare better.
Don't try to mislead me, you are only concerned about Fed.
 
Hmm. In your world there's no tennis outside of Fed.
Not true, I am a Fed fan first, but I truly do like Rafa and always root for him to win (unless playing Fed), and yes, it is bitter sweet at times because he catches Fed when he wins slams.

However, when did we get so cynical that people can not like two players? This is what TTW does to people (make you choose one or the other). But guess what, I am still going to be a Fed fan first, then a Rafa fan whether Fed fans, or Rafa fans (you) have a problem with it. :p
 
that's why allowing players to withdraw last minute is a reasonable decision.

there may be some wise adjustments to the rule possible, but that's not what this thread is about, right?
It is just talking about how it hurts the tourney, as the two best players can't be in the final, you know, the one every one wants to see.

It is about the tourney saying players should give them a slight heads up, not wait till 3 hours after the final on Sunday. Once again, it is not on Rafa, but on the rules. They should make it where you have to give a heads up at least before Sunday (enough time to fix the draw). Not sure how this is confusing?
 

van_Loederen

Semi-Pro
It is just talking about how it hurts the tourney, as the two best players can't be in the final, you know, the one every one wants to see.

It is about the tourney saying players should give them a slight heads up, not wait till 3 hours after the final on Sunday. Once again, it is not on Rafa, but on the rules. They should make it where you have to give a heads up at least before Sunday (enough time to fix the draw). Not sure how this is confusing?
i asked you that before:
what if a player gets injured or realizes that he won't get fit only after that date?
 
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