Cincy Draw sucks now

Backspin1183

G.O.A.T.
Yeah that's why everyone except fake-tired Nadal is playing. He vultured easy 1000 points and wants no part of a tournament where he needs to beat half-decent players.
Nobody cares about Cincinnati. The tournament is in the middle of nowhere and no players like to go there except those who need ranking points for the US Open or lost early at Canada Open..
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Nadal has always been a bum at Cincy except for the one year he got lucky. Cincy is one of the few fast hardcourts and Nadal knows he is a bum on fast hard.
 
It's pure speculation, but given Rafa's personality I find it impossible to believe that a) He didn't make the decision days ago and b) He didn't take the Djokovic/Federer issue into account.

It's not like the Montreal final was a bruising epic. If you pull out after a 1 hour walkover, you were always going to pull out. He just delayed the announcement to get Roger and Novak on the same side of the draw.
You never thought of the option that if he would have lost he would just feel he needs to practice more before USO? This is the reason why he didn't pull out from Cincinnati earlier.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
It's pure speculation, but given Rafa's personality I find it impossible to believe that a) He didn't make the decision days ago and b) He didn't take the Djokovic/Federer issue into account.
It's hardly speculation, it's pretty obvious this was planned long ago. Murray did the same thing to eff up the USO draw a few years back. And now we will have Clay or Octo's canned response, "this is your opinion, Fed devotee, Rafa previously said he would decide to play Cincy based on his results in Montreal."
 
Not on purpose (but maybe), but Rafa dropping Cincy was very beneficial on his part, as he blocks Djoker or Fed from points (possibly a significant amount too).

Tourneys really should force the players to make a decision before Sunday that way they can rearrange some things if need be.

Don't think Rafa really cares or thinks about (and shouldn't have to) it this way, but it will likely benefit him.

This also hurts the tourney and draw now, as Fed v Djoker final would be a pretty good showdown after recent events.

Shame.
Tennis draws completely suck anyway. No way the #1 player should have to play the #3 player in the semi's ever and #2 get #4. That's just the stupidest crap ever.
 

Kalin

Legend
So Rafa pulled an Andy Murray? Some say he set some record but it also seems he hit a new low which, for him, is quite an achievement. Congrats.... I guess?
 

The Blond Blur

Hall of Fame
LOL we have way too many posters that are conspiracy theorists :laughing:



The guy said he was going to play unless he won Montreal. Once he did he kept his word and pulled out. Players do this all the time, get over it.
 

van_Loederen

Professional
It's hardly speculation, it's pretty obvious this was planned long ago. Murray did the same thing to eff up the USO draw a few years back.
Murray was suffering from arthritis and did a similar thing at the AO the next year. he withdrew a little earlier, but it was still the same from his perspective, he was trying to get fit, but failed at the final tests. a few days later he cried in front of a camera and announced his hip surgery.

many players regularly withdraw at the last minute. their exact conditions are and will remain unclear (due to medical confidentiality).

and is it so different if a player already knows that he will have to pull out after 2 or 3 matches?
Nadal had to check his body after that final. he is 33 years old and realized that he would not be in a shape to make Cincy semis or finals without risking his health.
a tired player giving 100% will inevitably lead to injury and he's veteran enough to know it.

edit:
even if he kinda announced it earlier (like The Blond Blur says) he maybe had second thoughts after the SF walkover, who knows.
even a Masters semifinal is worth as many points as a Slam QF.
these are points Nadal could really need ...and all the lost/next gen guys are useless and couldn't stop him, right?
heck, he even got the easier draw, with Fedovic in the opposite half.
why the feck did he withdraw?
he could have tanked in the SF to preserve his H2H with Fedovic.
is he not even able to do that?
the answer may be: yes
 
Last edited:

tonylg

Professional
You never thought of the option that if he would have lost he would just feel he needs to practice more before USO? This is the reason why he didn't pull out from Cincinnati earlier.
"Needs to practice"? No, I still believe the decision was made in advance but unlike those who try to state either possibility as fact, concede that we are just speculating.

Nadal has always used whatever he can to win. He's possibly the fiercest competitor the sport has ever seen. "I believe" this is just another part of that puzzle.
 
I mean seriously nadal should be kicking himself.There was a easy draw when it came out and now the state less said is better.He would have strolled to the final except for a injury which is in a way a reason he skipped but I wanted him to win as many matches possible before us open
 

octobrina10

G.O.A.T.
It's hardly speculation, it's pretty obvious this was planned long ago. Murray did the same thing to eff up the USO draw a few years back. And now we will have Clay or Octo's canned response, "this is your opinion, Fed devotee, Rafa previously said he would decide to play Cincy based on his results in Montreal."
Yes, Rafa said already at the end of July (at a press conference in Mallorca): "Depending on what happens in Montreal, I will decide about the Cincinnati Masters." (Translated from Spanish by Google).
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
OR we could simply always seed nos 2 and 3 in the same draw. That way Federer and Djokovic would definitely be on opposite halves, regardless of whether Nadal plays.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
Rafa was always going to withdraw. I think this is just a very calculative move on his team's part. He doesn't want to meet Fedovic before the Open and suffer a possible loss of confidence right before the Open. Wise move, IMO.
he's not obligated to play every event, i dont like that i have to defend nadal but at this age for his body it makes sense he is not going to play back to back events right before a major. i prefer this then skipping half the hc tournaments like he usually does but citing knee issues and everyone acting like its doom or gloom and then him showing up during clay season sparkling.
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
It's pure speculation, but given Rafa's personality I find it impossible to believe that a) He didn't make the decision days ago and b) He didn't take the Djokovic/Federer issue into account.

It's not like the Montreal final was a bruising epic. If you pull out after a 1 hour walkover, you were always going to pull out. He just delayed the announcement to get Roger and Novak on the same side of the draw.
Serves the organizers right. They shouldnt have put Fed Djoker in the same half.
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
I still cannot forget what Andy Murray did thereby giving Busta 4 straight qualifiers and into semi finals of a major . And his opponent there was freakin Anderson

What a tragedy . We are celebrating the 2 year anniversary with Rafa’s withdrawal here

Karma will catch up . It always does
 

Robert F

Semi-Pro
What would be bad if they held the draw until after the finals of Montreal waiting for the player to commit? I'm asking out of ignorance. It would seem to eliminate this problem but maybe cause others. I guess players could still pull out just before they play like Serena and then they are scrambling to fix the problem.

Can't blame it on Rafa for gaming the rules.
 

topher

Professional
I still cannot forget what Andy Murray did thereby giving Busta 4 straight qualifiers and into semi finals of a major . And his opponent there was freakin Anderson

What a tragedy . We are celebrating the 2 year anniversary with Rafa’s withdrawal here

Karma will catch up . It always does
Karma for Andy? Hasn’t he had enough bad luck by now?

Being serious: Unless you seriously suspect the player is trying to delay their decision to screw with the draw, then it’s a fault of the system. In this case, Rogers Cup and Cincy are far too close to expect players making a deep run in Canada to make the decision on time.
 

kailash

Professional
The draw would look good if one of the following wins the tournament!!

Opelka
Schwartzman
Kukushkin
 
Karma for Andy? Hasn’t he had enough bad luck by now?

Being serious: Unless you seriously suspect the player is trying to delay their decision to screw with the draw, then it’s a fault of the system. In this case, Rogers Cup and Cincy are far too close to expect players making a deep run in Canada to make the decision on time.
Honestly, do you think these guys don't do whatever takes to gain an advantage? Especially ones that are legal.

Maybe he did it on purpose, maybe not, but he sure knows it helped him by waiting. All I am saying, is by the time Saturday night rolled around, his decision should be made. Tourney has enough time to fix the draw, and the player knows whether or not he needs to play. Not sure why winning vs not should determine you playing in the next tourney.

It is gamesmanship, and all the top players do it, but the tourneys can fix it... if they wanted to.
 

octobrina10

G.O.A.T.
I still cannot forget what Andy Murray did thereby giving Busta 4 straight qualifiers and into semi finals of a major . And his opponent there was freakin Anderson

What a tragedy . We are celebrating the 2 year anniversary with Rafa’s withdrawal here

Karma will catch up . It always does
I wonder why you have forgotten that Fed pulled out of the Cincinnati Masters after the Canada Masters final 2 years ago.

The Cincinnati Masters website: ¤¤ Roger Federer, a seven-time champion at the Western & Southern Open [Cincinnati Masters] has withdrawn from the 2017 tournament.
"Unfortunately, I tweaked my back in Montreal and I need to rest this week," Federer said.
A lucky loser will replace Federer in the draw. ¤¤
 

Zoolander

Hall of Fame
Just another reason to dump Cincy to 250 status and make a grass masters. Its a joke having masters back to back and no one likes Cincy except Sureshs.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
Well if the rule allows it why not do it. I don’t blame Nadal for it. Murray did the same in USO 2016 and it was way worse as it’s a slam. It’s up to ATO to change the rule around this
True, there are several antiquated the ATO should have change long ago. New rules that need to be changed is allowing bathroom breaks, or any locker room breakes after each set, as well as 15-20 injury times out. Last night Isner took a nearly 15 minute locker room break after the second set. Fortunately, it did not upset PCP's game.
 
Just another reason to dump Cincy to 250 status and make a grass masters. Its a joke having masters back to back and no one likes Cincy except Sureshs.
Ridiculous stuff. Back to back masters should never happen. At that point, just make it a major. Put a week between, lower one, or play a slam.

The clay swing is the most atrocious of them all. 3 masters in a month, with 500 too.
 
Top