Circus Tour Finals strikes again

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
I would eliminate the group phase to create fair rules.

It is better to directly put quarterfinals, semifinals and the final.
That’s your opinion, not based on anything.
Rules are fair for everyone. Win more matches and sets than 2 other players to qualify.
 

Sephiroth

Professional
stupidest part is if zverev lost Nadal won his group. zverev wins and nadal is 3rd and out........
But you know which fanbase doesn't find a problem in this the absolute mad discrepancy between winning and losing.

I mean we're talking about a tournament where NO ONE had 3 wins but Nadal had to get the short end of the stick. Federer, Zverev, Thiem, Tsitsipas all had the same credentials as Nadal - 2-1 record but nooooooooooo it's Nadal who had to get out.

5 ****ing players had 2-1 records, the same credentials but Nadal had to get out.

According to some folk that's fair lmao it's a circus it's what it is. A joke.
 

Chadalina

Legend
Nadal was very lucky to even win a match. His two wins are 7-6 in the third and 7-5 in the third.

Its not like he was dominate at any point in this tournament.
 

Sephiroth

Professional
Nadal was very lucky to even win a match. His two wins are 7-6 in the third and 7-5 in the third.

Its not like he was dominate at any point in this tournament.
Fed was very lucky to win AO 2017. Wasn't dominant at all with all those 5 setters and AO 2018 wasn't dominant at all in the final.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
I mean we're talking about a tournament where NO ONE had 3 wins but Nadal had to get the short end of the stick. Federer, Zverev, Thiem, Tsitsipas all had the same credentials as Nadal - 2-1 record but nooooooooooo it's Nadal who had to get out.

5 ****ing players had 2-1 records, the same credentials but Nadal had to get out.
Demonstrably false as Nadal had the worst sets won/lost ratio among the players with a 2-1 record
 

Chadalina

Legend
In other tournaments such a win counts just as much as a 6-0 6-0 win.
Yep, sets won/lost and H2H matters at the WTF.
Its funny because nadal fans were all about the H2H in the past.

Fed was very lucky to win AO 2017. Wasn't dominant at all with all those 5 setters and AO 2018 wasn't dominant at all in the final.
Did he lose a match in that tournament? I cant remember, i do know rafa lost one at the wtf
 

Sephiroth

Professional
Did he lose a match in that tournament? I cant remember, i do know rafa lost one at the wtf
So did the rest of the players who qualified, they all lost a match their records were the same as Nadal. 2-1. You're not very good at this are you?

This is why this tournament is a circus show with dumb ass rules. It doesn't even favour the winners. Nadal with 2 wins got the same bloody treatment as Medvedev, a player with 0 wins and 3 losses.
 
@Sport In the early 1980s, they did briefly switch to a knockout system for the year-end championships. They switched back to round robin format in 1986. There were four iterations of the knockout event. It was a 12 or 16-player draw, not eight, though.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
So did the rest of the players who qualified, they all lost a match their records were the same as Nadal. 2-1. You're not very good at this are you?

This is why this tournament is a circus show with dumb ass rules. It doesn't even favour the winners. Nadal with 2 wins got the same bloody treatment as Medvedev, a player with 0 wins and 3 losses.
Do folks who go 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, etc. in a Slam get a different treatment than a LL who has 2 losses?

Also, Nadal got 400 points out of this while Med got 0, so you are doubly wrong
 

Sephiroth

Professional
In a Slam the guy who goes 0-1 goes home just like the guy who goes 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, ...
Exactly once you lose you're out none of this bs system. Knockout system is a far fairer system that rewards the winners and losers fairly. None of this clowning around in a knockout system where you have to rely on certain players to win x or y stuff, which can actually turn out to be match fixing depending on agendas.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
Exactly once you lose you're out none of this bs system. Knockout system is a far fairer system that rewards the winners and losers fairly. None of this clowning around in a knockout system where you have to rely on certain players to win x or y stuff, which can actually turn out to be match fixing depending on agendas.
You don't have to rely on anyone here, either. Win every match and you're the champ. This is actually giving Nadal a second chance, which he blew.
 

Sephiroth

Professional
You don't have to rely on anyone here either. Win every match and you're through.
Given the fact that if you lose you still have a chance to qualify then yeah you do have to rely on other players. That's why it's a **** system. I'd prefer Rafa to get out of round 1 then go through this idiotic system.

The fact that you don't see anything wrong with this is astonishing but carry on I'm sure you're gonna get brownine points from the Federer fans trying to stick up for CTF
 

Surion

Hall of Fame
If this was a QF > SF > F system.

Monday - 2 QFs
Tuesday - 2 QFs
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - 1st SF
Friday - 2nd SF
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - F

Far better system like a proper tournament, just make the finals b05 given the stupid amount of points awarded, just 500 less than a slam. Or reduce the points, whatever.
So you win three matches for the title? What a joke. Here you have to win four at least, you would barely ever advance to the SF with only one RR win. The system is great and it works. Rafa lost to Zverev and that's why he is out, simple.
 

Chadalina

Legend
I'd prefer Rafa to get out of round 1 then go through this idiotic system.
Out after the first match, out after his third. Same thing at this point, not sure of the complaint.

Rafa wasnt one of the best 4 players in this tournament, i have him at #6 behind Italian and med.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
Given the fact that if you lose you still have a chance to qualify then yeah you do have to rely on other players. That's why it's a **** system. I'd prefer Rafa to get out of round 1 then go through this idiotic system.

The fact that you don't see anything wrong with this is astonishing but carry on I'm sure you're gonna get brownine points from the Federer fans trying to stick up for CTF
You only need to rely on other players if you lose.

In other tournaments a loss means you're out. Rafa is being given a mulligan and you're complaining. Why?
 

Sephiroth

Professional
You only need to rely on other players if you lose.

In other tournaments a loss means you're out. Rafa is being given a mulligan and you're complaining. Why?
Exactly I like that, a loss means you are OUT. None of this clowning around. Nadal just busted his ass in 3 sets trying to qualify and he didn't qualify, that's wasted energy, what's even the point if you're going to try and actually get the WIN to no avail?

If Rafa gets out in R1 on a typical knockout system - fine with me cuz it's fair for him and for every other player. This isn't. He just busted his ass off for nothing despite having the same 2-1 results as everyone else.

Only in this dumb tournament sets win/loss matters, rest of the ATP and ITF events it doesn't matter, a win is a win and a loss is a loss.
 

Sephiroth

Professional
Out after the first match, out after his third. Same thing at this point, not sure of the complaint.

Rafa wasnt one of the best 4 players in this tournament, i have him at #6 behind Italian and med.
lmao Rafa had the same win-loss ratio as the rest, and got the same treatment as a guy with 0 wins.

According to this tournament it's fine for a player to have a 2-1 record be meaningful as a player with 0-3 record. Yeah ok.
 

40L0VE

Rookie
At the start of this event

Nadal in his group was

Leading 4-1 h2h against Tsitsipas.
Leading 5-0 h2h against Zverev.
Leading 2-0 h2h against Medvedev.

Compared to Federer who's

Losing 22-26 h2h against Djokovic.
Losing 02-04 h2h against Thiem.
Leading 01-00 h2h against Berrettini.


To me it looks like they gave Nadal a better draw than Federer. I'll edit my post when I work out how it's unfair for Nadal.
 

jm1980

G.O.A.T.
Exactly I like that, a loss means you are OUT. None of this clowning around. Nadal just busted his ass in 3 sets trying to qualify and he didn't qualify, that's wasted energy, what's even the point if you're going to try and actually get the WIN to no avail?

If Rafa gets out in R1 on a typical knockout system - fine with me cuz it's fair for him and for every other player. This isn't. He just busted his ass off for nothing despite having the same 2-1 results as everyone else.

Only in this dumb tournament sets win/loss matters, rest of the ATP and ITF events it doesn't matter, a win is a win and a loss is a loss.
He got 400 points out of it. Could be valuable in 2020 to keep Djokovic at bay
 

40L0VE

Rookie
Calling it round-robin is confusing some posters so let's call it for what it really is, it's a league format as used in probably all team sports around the world. In this league format the top 2 performers advance to the next stage. Performance is determined by in order of precedence

1) Matches won
2) Sets Win/Loss ratio
3) Games Win/Loss ratio
4) Read the rule book for further determiners if the above filters still lead to a tie.

Once the rules are understand it becomes clear Nadal was statistically outperformed by the two players from his group who have advanced to the next stage.
 
Like some posters i would like a knockout tournament but i don't think they're changing it -

The ATP and some top players would hate it if the top 1-3 or the "player of the year" gets knocked out in the very first match. It could even lead to some players skipping the event...

What i really don't like about the RR format is you can get eliminated with a similar record with your groupmates.

Also the worst case scenario:

A player with a 2-1 record gets eliminated while a player in the other group advances with a 1-2 record. Has this happened before?
 

Chadalina

Legend
Like some posters i would like a knockout tournament but i don't think they're changing it -

The ATP and some top players would hate it if the top 1-3 or the "player of the year" gets knocked out in the very first match. It could even lead to some players skipping the event...

What i really don't like about the RR format is you can get eliminated with a similar record with your groupmates.

Also the worst case scenario:

A player with a 2-1 record gets eliminated while a player in the other group advances with a 1-2 record. Has this happened before?
Id like to see both. Maybe a proset against every player to create the seeding for the tournament. Then 2 out of 3 set tournament style.

Nadal was very lucky to be in the agassi group.
 

Feather

Legend
People whining like kids !

World Cup Football, the premier event of the most followed sport in the world has round robin in the first stage. World Cup Cricket, World Cup Hockey all have round robin formats. It helps people to watch more matches from quality teams.

Same the case with WTF. We can get to see more matches between the best players in the world.

If you are a fan of Tennis and not a fan of a player, you would certainly enjoy WTF. Coz it brings lots of competitive matches between the best players of the world
 

JaoSousa

Rookie
If Nadal had 3 wins I bet there'd be some shoddy rule to keep him out and the sheeple Federer fans would go "yh you kno wut its rite hur dur"
That is because he never will actually get 3 wins. Face it, Nadal is not good at the WTF because he usually takes matches to warm up in a tournament and fast court indoor doesn't really suit him.
 

JaoSousa

Rookie
People whining like kids !

World Cup Football, the premier event of the most followed sport in the world has round robin in the first stage. World Cup Cricket, World Cup Hockey all have round robin formats. It helps people to watch more matches from quality teams.

Same the case with WTF. We can get to see more matches between the best players in the world.

If you are a fan of Tennis and not a fan of a player, you would certainly enjoy WTF. Coz it brings lots of competitive matches between the best players of the world
This should get infinite likes. So true.
 

Luis88

New User
Get rid of the group phase and just make it QF > SF > F. It's a top 8 tournament anyway the RR system is stupid.
Then Nadal is out in first round? lol. I meant I hate Mevedev and Zverev. But they earned it. You better live with it. It's all fair games.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Nadal played really well in his last 2 matches. He held up physically all the way through against much younger foes. I guess his abdomen injury must not have been all that bad which caused him to pull out right before the SF in Paris.
Groundstrokes against the Greek were crispy af (and volleying was amazing) im honestly surprised he played that well indoors coming off little practice
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
Tournament is already dead with Rafa and Djokovic out and the YE No 1 decided...doubt anyone really cares about this IMO
 

Mike Sams

Legend
Groundstrokes against the Greek were crispy af (and volleying was amazing) im honestly surprised he played that well indoors coming off little practice
Yup. Nadal is an attacker and really aggressive at the net when it's needed. Something that he doesn't seem to do against Djokovic. He just stays back all the time. Confidence is a huge thing.
 
Tournament is already dead with Rafa and Djokovic out and the YE No 1 decided...doubt anyone really cares about this IMO
Today will be a packed house, me included. A sea of light blue and red.

The doubles will be great too

£150 for Federer courtside

Got to see him while you can


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Feather

Legend
It's a farce. It's always been a farce. It will always be a farce.

That's why no one really cares about who wins it.
Maye the so caled historian is clueless about history. It was always a top tournament . And all top players and fans actually cared about it
 
Unfortunately for Rafa, Med was a pincushion of the group. Something the other group (even Berrettini, the meme of the tournament, managed to squeeze a win out) didn't have.

But there's no need to be butthurt about it. People were eliminated having 2 wins in the RR before.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah and they both qualified while Nadal gets squat even though he's won the same amount of matches as them, which is what counts.

2,2,2.

Set win/loss ratio is ********.
Uh Set ratio is a tiebreaker throughout tennis where necessary. Say league play here in Germany. If it somehow happens that two teams are tied in terms of wins/losses at the end of the season, then the number of individual matches won and then the sets won are compared.

This is just really salty complaining about something that was clear from the outset given the format of the tournament.
 
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