Clay battle : Nadal 2011 vs Nadal 2005

[billnepill]

2005 was Nadal's breakthrough year. After a clay sweep and 24 consecutive wins, he reached number 3 in the world. In 2005 he won Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Rome and the French Open, beating primest of prime Federer in the SF.

In 2011 Nadal won Monte Carlo and Barcelona. He reached the final of Madrid and Rome, but was defeated by Novak Djokovic.

My question is: is "baby" Rafa better than prime Nadal on clay GAME-WISE?

If the answer is no, then maybe Djokovic's current level is close to Rafa's best on clay, no?

If you answer yes, your name is namelessone Seriously, some people believe his 2011 version is the worst ever on clay. How many of you think that?

In addition, there was a thread comparing prime Federer and prime Djokovic on clay (if Djokovic was to beat Nadal in RG final). Many people raised the point that Nadal is far from his best in 2011. But is it worse than 2005 for example?

Discuss.

 

[Clay lover]

Uhhhhhhhhh, Nadal is still excellent on clay, but it will be a BIG stretch to say 2011 Nadal is better than 2005 Nadal.

I don't think acknowledging the fact that 2011 Nadal is worse than 2005 Nadal on clay is equal to

1)saying that Nadal is at his career worst on clay
2) making excuses for Nadal's losses.

In fact Nadal won the most clay tournaments in 2005, and boy could he run. He was basically a human backboard with a touch of good aggression when needed (see his matches against Coria), Nobody in his right mind would say that 2011 Nadal is better than 2005 Nadal on clay.

 

[Slice&Smash]

Peak Nadal on clay is the 2008 version... still quick but also with new found aggressiveness

 

[zagor]

Uhhhhhhhhh, Nadal is still excellent on clay, but it will be WAY too far fetching to say 2011 Nadal is better than 2005 Nadal.

I don't think acknowledging the fact that 2011 Nadal is worse than 2005 Nadal on clay is equal to

1)saying that Nadal is at his career worst on clay
2) making excuses for Nadal's losses.

In fact Nadal won the most clay tournaments in 2005, and boy could he run. He was basically a human backboard with a touch of good aggression when needed (see his matches against Coria), Nobody in his right mind would say that 2011 Nadal is better than 2005 Nadal on clay.

Please 2005 was baby Rafa,he was still in his diapers,yes he won a lot even then but it's because competition was so weak in those days.Comparing diaper Rafa to Rafa the beast who dominated strong era(2008+ not counting 2009 which was a strange anomaly)is a joke.

Just last year Nadal won 3 slams for the first time in his career and made a clean sweep of clay season(again,something he never did in his career before)which means he's playing the best tennis of his career.In other words Nadal is at his absolute peak but peak Novak is just a better player on every surface except probably grass.

 

[Clay lover]

Please 2005 was baby Rafa,he was still in his diapers,yes he won a lot even then but it's because competition was so weak in those days.Comparing diaper Rafa to Rafa the beast who dominated strong era(2008+ not counting 2009 which was a strange anomaly)is a joke.

Just last year Nadal won 3 slams for the first time in his career and made a clean sweep of clay season(again,something he never did in his career before)which means he's playing the best tennis of his career.In other words Nadal is at his absolute peak but peak Novak is just a better player on every surface except probably grass.

Uhh I don't know if you're trolling me, but I am not saying that 2005 Nadal is better than 2008 or 2010 Nadal, but 2005 Nadal is sure up there in terms of speed and intensity. Weak competition? Base on what proof? Nadal wins all the clay matches anyway. I would even go on a stretch to say that Nadal 2005, 2008 and 2010 on clay are pretty much equal, but 2011 is a different story.

It is in my honest opinion that Nadal is on his decline and if you think that is ****ism and making excuses for Nadal, then you're free to do so. Even if you get *******s to concede that Djokovic's peak on clay is better than Nadal's, it will not change that fact that Nadal is by far the more accomplished player on clay now and possibly forever.

 

[namelessone]

2005 was Nadal's breakthrough year. After a clay sweep and 24 consecutive wins, he reached number 3 in the world. In 2005 he won Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Rome and the French Open, beating primest of prime Federer in the SF.

In 2011 Nadal won Monte Carlo and Barcelona. He reached the final of Madrid and Rome, but was defeated by Novak Djokovic.

My question is: is "baby" Rafa better than prime Nadal on clay GAME-WISE?

If the answer is no, then maybe Djokovic's current level is close to Rafa's best on clay, no?

If you answer yes, your name is namelessone Seriously, some people believe his 2011 version is the worst ever on clay. How many of you think that?

In addition, there was a thread comparing prime Federer and prime Djokovic on clay (if Djokovic was to beat Nadal in RG final). Many people raised the point that Nadal is far from his best in 2011. But is it worse than 2005 for example?

Discuss.

While people may disagree with me I look at HIS GAME.

Nadal of 2005:

-human backboard

-insane speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px3avcicJYE

-forehand was more or less the same but 2005 Nadal actually went for it more at times. Nadal actually got more conservative with his fh as the years rolled on.

-BH sucked way more than today's BH(capability I mean) but he actually hit it back then, even though it came up short.

-didn't have slices in his game and his only tactic was pretty much "hit fh deep and run".

-had a worse serve.

-had immense focus and hunger.

Nadal of 2011:

-has less speed.

-holds back more on his fh but now relies almost exclusively on it, bad move.

-has more weapons in his arsenal but sucks at using them. His BH is miles better than in 2005 but he doesn't hit it now, he runs from it, pushes or moonballs it.

-seems to have no tactic nowadays other than put ball into court. Young Rafa would abuse BH, but he knew that DTL shots were money. He hit his BH knowing that even if it is short(most times in was) his foot speed can get him to his fh corner fast enough to reset the point.

-doesn't focus as well as in the past.


Right now Nadal 2005 versus Nadal 2011 would probably end up in 2005's favour.

For one Nadal 2005 would actually hit his BH, however bad, and wouldn't give up court positioning just to hit I/O FH like Nadal 2011 does ON A REGULAR BASIS.

Next, Nadal 2005 can and will retrieve most balls by Nadal of 2011 but the opposite isn't true. Also, Nadal of 2005 is a young pup hungry for titles whereas Nadal 2011 is a more jaded version who fights just enough to win a match instead of letting it all on the court like in the past.

 

[Clay lover]

While people may disagree with me I look at HIS GAME.

Nadal of 2005:

-human backboard

-insane speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px3avcicJYE

-forehand was more or less the same but 2005 Nadal actually went for it more at times. Nadal actually got more conservative with his fh as the years rolled on.

-BH sucked way more than today's BH(capability I mean) but he actually hit it back then, even though it came up short.

-didn't have slices in his game and his only tactic was pretty much "hit fh deep and run".

-had a worse serve.

-had immense focus and hunger.

Nadal of 2011:

-has less speed.

-holds back more on his fh but now relies almost exclusively on it, bad move.

-has more weapons in his arsenal but sucks at using them. His BH is miles better than in 2005 but he doesn't hit it now, he runs from it, pushes or moonballs it.

-seems to have no tactic nowadays other than put ball into court. Young Rafa would abuse BH, but he knew that DTL shots were money. He hit his BH knowing that even if it is short(most times in was) his foot speed can get him to his fh corner fast enough to reset the point.

-doesn't focus as well as in the past.

To conclude, Nadal 2005 had less weapons, more speed but was more hungry and focused. Nadal of 2011 can do more on a claycourt but isn't as fast,hungry or focused as in the past.

Right now Nadal 2005 versus Nadal 2011 would probably end up in 2005's favour.

For one Nadal 2005 would actually hit his BH, however bad, and wouldn't give up court positioning just to hit I/O FH like Nadal 2011 does ON A REGULAR BASIS.

Next, Nadal 2005 can and will retrieve most balls by Nadal of 2011 but the opposite isn't true. Also, Nadal of 2005 is a young pup hungry for titles whereas Nadal 2011 is a more jaded version who fights just enough to win a match instead of letting it all on the court like in the past.

These guys have no aim other than to beat down Nadal and his fans. Even if they get *******s to concede that Djokovic's peak on clay is better than Nadal's, it will not change that fact that Nadal is by far the more accomplished player on clay now and possibly for the rest of their lives. These peak to peak arguments are getting ridiculous.

 

[vllaznia]

If it wasnt for Djokovic Rafa now should have had 3 masters and Barcelona better than last year, What are you talking about?

 

[zagor]

While people may disagree with me I look at HIS GAME.

Nadal of 2005:

-human backboard

-insane speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px3avcicJYE

-forehand was more or less the same but 2005 Nadal actually went for it more at times. Nadal actually got more conservative with his fh as the years rolled on.

-BH sucked way more than today's BH(capability I mean) but he actually hit it back then, even though it came up short.

-didn't have slices in his game and his only tactic was pretty much "hit fh deep and run".

-had a worse serve.

-had immense focus and hunger.

Nadal of 2011:

-has less speed.

-holds back more on his fh but now relies almost exclusively on it, bad move.

-has more weapons in his arsenal but sucks at using them. His BH is miles better than in 2005 but he doesn't hit it now, he runs from it, pushes or moonballs it.

-seems to have no tactic nowadays other than put ball into court. Young Rafa would abuse BH, but he knew that DTL shots were money. He hit his BH knowing that even if it is short(most times in was) his foot speed can get him to his fh corner fast enough to reset the point.

-doesn't focus as well as in the past.


Right now Nadal 2005 versus Nadal 2011 would probably end up in 2005's favour.

For one Nadal 2005 would actually hit his BH, however bad, and wouldn't give up court positioning just to hit I/O FH like Nadal 2011 does ON A REGULAR BASIS.

Next, Nadal 2005 can and will retrieve most balls by Nadal of 2011 but the opposite isn't true. Also, Nadal of 2005 is a young pup hungry for titles whereas Nadal 2011 is a more jaded version who fights just enough to win a match instead of letting it all on the court like in the past.

Nadal is lucky he didn't have to face peak Novak earlier,if he did he'd have about 0-1 FO titles and wouldn't even be in contention for clay court GOAT.

 

[Clay lover]

Nadal is lucky he didn't have to face peak Novak earlier,if he did he'd have about 0-1 FO titles and wouldn't even be in contention for clay court GOAT.

It'll be funny to see you eat your words after RG2011.

 

[YodaKnowsBest]

Peak Nadal (24) vs baby Nadal (18 )... How deep must *******s have fallen?

 

[zagor]

It'll be funny to see you eat your words after RG2011.

Indeed it would! I only hope if Nadal wins FO he does it by beating peak Novak in the final otherwise his 2011 FO title would have an * next to it no doubt and would just all around feel as a hollow win.

 

[namelessone]

Please 2005 was baby Rafa,he was still in his diapers,yes he won a lot even then but it's because competition was so weak in those days.Comparing diaper Rafa to Rafa the beast who dominated strong era(2008+ not counting 2009 which was a strange anomaly)is a joke.

Just last year Nadal won 3 slams for the first time in his career and made a clean sweep of clay season(again,something he never did in his career before)which means he's playing the best tennis of his career.In other words Nadal is at his absolute peak but peak Novak is just a better player on every surface except probably grass.

I think we are talking Nadal 2005 versus 2011 ON CLAY, not overall.

Baby Rafa, while being very underdeveloped as a CC'er still, won on clay that year against good CC'ers such as:

Gaudio(RG winner from 2004, got bageled twice in 2005 by Rafa on clay), Mariano Puerta(twice), Montanes, JCF(twice, with a breadstick in each match), Gasquet(twice, Gasquet beating Fed on clay that year), Coria(twice, Coria being RG finalist from 2004), Ferrer(twice), Grosjean and Federer.

2011 Nadal lost sets to Murray(no diss on Andy but a peak Rafa, as you say, wouldn't lose sets on clay to Murray), old man Fed after being up a break(Fed isn't nearly the same player he was on clay in Nadal's peak and even then peak Nadal beat him most times) and to nr.148 in the world.

Nadal of old may have been inferior tehnically but he had hunger and a gameplan. Nadal of 2011's plan(even against non-Djoker opponents) seems to be just to keep the ball into court instead of dictating with his fh to move his opponents.

Nadal 2011 looked positively bored out there against many opponents in the lower rounds, almost jaded and just kind of went through the motions, not to mention his many second set dips. There was rarely lack of focus from 2005 Nadal.

 

[ConnorsGOAT]

LOLLLLLL. I can't believe what Im reading. When it comes to Federer, oh Nadal was only a baby in 2005, 2006 Todays peak Nadal would have beat prime Federer even more badly had they faced. Then the hypocrisy rears its ugly head. Now that peak Nadal is being beaten by Novak, Nadal is so conveniently no longer at his peak even though he still owns 3 of the last 4 slams, i.e. EVEN better than what he owned in the great 2008 year. LOL the hypocrisy has no bounds!!!!

 

[Clay lover]

Indeed it would! I only hope if Nadal wins FO he does it by beating peak Novak in the final otherwise his 2011 FO title would have an * next to it no doubt and would just all around feel as a hollow win.

If Novak doesn't get to the finals, then it's his fault for not being consistent enough...same goes for Nadal in 2009...just to be fair.

 

[YodaKnowsBest]

This is beyond any **** theory I have ever seen... I can't even comment how sick this is. :shock:

 

[Clay lover]

LOLLLLLL. I can't believe what Im reading. When it comes to Federer, oh Nadal was only a baby in 2005, 2006 Todays peak Nadal would have beat prime Federer even more badly had they faced. Then the hypocrisy rears its ugly head. Now that peak Nadal is being beaten by Novak, Nadal is so conveniently no longer at his peak even though he still owns 3 of the last 4 slams, i.e. EVEN better than what he owned in the great 2008 year. LOL the hypocrisy has no bounds!!!!

Give me some of what you are smoking. Tennis is a game of surfaces. Nadal is MUCH better on hardcourts and grasscourts now than before, yes. Heck, even peak Nadal is Djokovic's pidgeon on hard excpet in best of 5 matches. However, 2005 Nadal was already winning truckloads of tournament on clay.

 

[aphex]

Nadal's peak was in 2009.

 

[ConnorsGOAT]

Give me some of what you are smoking. Tennis is a game of surfaces. Nadal is MUCH better on hardcourts and grasscourts now than before, yes. Heck, even peak Nadal is Djokovic's pidgeon on hard excpet in best of 5 matches. However, 2005 Nadal was already winning truckloads of tournament on clay.

Yeah only because he didnt have to face 2011 Djokovic. No way Nadal from any year beats Djokovic now. Hes just not good enough as the facts have shown

 

[ConnorsGOAT]

Truth be told Nadal has been at peak since 2006. The only reason 2008 seemed like the breakout year was because Fed had mono. Without Feds mono, Nadal only wins the FO in 2008.

 

[namelessone]

If it wasnt for Djokovic Rafa now should have had 3 masters and Barcelona better than last year, What are you talking about?

Hello, people are talking about Nadal's game and overall form, not just cause he lost in two clay finals against Djoker.

Many Nadal fans were not satisfied with his game before Madrid 2011 and he had won two titles, in MC and Barcelona.

To put it in a way most of you can understand:

If this Nadal, Nadal 2011, takes the court with 2005 Nadal, do you honestly think Nadal 2011 wins? Nadal of 2005 not only has way more speed(ability) and hunger(willingness) to track any of Nadal's 2011 balls but he will also go for his fh more.

Nadal 2011 has turned into a Moya type of player(85% forehand in one set with gasquet), only with less speed and focus than Nadal of 2005.

 

[Clay lover]

Truth be told Nadal has been at peak since 2006. The only reason 2008 seemed like the breakout year was because Fed had mono. Without Feds mono, Nadal only wins the FO in 2008.

Breakpoint is that you?

 

[namelessone]

LOLLLLLL. I can't believe what Im reading. When it comes to Federer, oh Nadal was only a baby in 2005, 2006 Todays peak Nadal would have beat prime Federer even more badly had they faced. Then the hypocrisy rears its ugly head. Now that peak Nadal is being beaten by Novak, Nadal is so conveniently no longer at his peak even though he still owns 3 of the last 4 slams, i.e. EVEN better than what he owned in the great 2008 year. LOL the hypocrisy has no bounds!!!!

LMAO, "prime" Nadal of 2011 lost a set to 30 YEAR OLD Federer on clay(nowhere near Fed 2005-2006-2007 form on clay) after being a break up(had 4-2, lost the set 5-7) and could have potentially lost the match had ******** not showed up. 2011 Nadal versus 2006-2007 Fed would not have looked pretty for Nadal.

Prime Federer beat a very good Nadal in 2007(near his peak form of 2008), bageled him in Hamburg, and breadsticked him in RG final. You have no ****ing idea what you are talking about.

If a old dude(past prime, some say waayyy past his prime) like Fed with a vulnerable BH to high balls takes a set from this "prime" Nadal of 2011 on clay, how did prime Federer(5 levels above 2011 version) get beat so many times against a pre-prime version of Nadal?

Even if he bypass the whole Federer issues, answer me this:

After dominating a surface for SIX SEASONS(2005-2010), do you expect a player(any player) to still be in his PRIME in his SEVENTH year on that surface?

 

[zagor]

If this Nadal, Nadal 2011, takes the court with 2005 Nadal, do you honestly think Nadal 2011 wins? .

Of course I do,2011 Nadal in straights easily,it would be like taking candy from a baby.

 

[Clay lover]

Of course I do,2011 Nadal in straights easily,it would be like taking candy from a baby.

If the *******s started conceding that prime for prime Nadal is worse than Djokovic on clay, will you still be so sure about your assumption? Cus I really can't see why somebody can believe that 2011 Nadal on clay is better than 2005 Nadal unless it is to justify something anti-*******.

Even IF, and that's a big IF (as we are not taking consistency vs other players into consideration) Nadal is a worse player than Djokovic on clay, Nadal 2005 is still visibly better than Nadal 2011 on clay.

 

[vllaznia]

Hello, people are talking about Nadal's game and overall form, not just cause he lost in two clay finals against Djoker.

Many Nadal fans were not satisfied with his game before Madrid 2011 and he had won two titles, in MC and Barcelona.

To put it in a way most of you can understand:

If this Nadal, Nadal 2011, takes the court with 2005 Nadal, do you honestly think Nadal 2011 wins? Nadal of 2005 not only has way more speed(ability) and hunger(willingness) to track any of Nadal's 2011 balls but he will also go for his fh more.

Nadal 2011 has turned into a Moya type of player(85% forehand in one set with gasquet), only with less speed and focus than Nadal of 2005.

You also were complaining in 2010 about his level of play, what do you think about 2010 Nadal vs 2005 Nadal?

 

[The-Champ]

2011 Nadal is slow as snail compared to 2005 Nadal.

 

[namelessone]

Of course I do,2011 Nadal in straights easily,it would be like taking candy from a baby.

And what are the advantages for Nadal 2011?

He moves slower side to side(though he is still great coming forward), his fh is marginally improved and is actually less offensive with it than in the past and dude RUNS AROUND HIS BH like crazy opening up the court for 2005 Nadal, who can not only rally with him(fitter) but won't give up his BH side as often and can retrieve most of Nadal 2011's balls.

2005-2006 Nadal would have no shot against Nadal 2008/2010 who not only hit great on both sides, he would have also exposed Nadal 2005-2006 BH with those amazing angles he got on his I/O FH and rapier like CC BH.

 

[The-Champ]

You also were complaining in 2010 about his level of play, what do you think about 2010 Nadal vs 2005 Nadal?

I would take 2005 Nadal over the 2010 version anytime.

 

[namelessone]

You also were complaining in 2010 about his level of play, what do you think about 2010 Nadal vs 2005 Nadal?

Uh, I was complaining in those stretches where he played some really average CC tennis.

Nadal's first two rounds in RG 2010 against Mina and Zeballos were some of the worst Nadal matches I've seen on clay. But he did play better and better as the tournament rolled along.

Watch highlights from MC 2010 and compare them to MC 2011.

Watch highlights from Rome 2010 and compare them to Barcelona 2011.

Just the first two tourneys to compare 2010 versus 2011 Nadal.

The difference in execution is Nadal's game is huge.

 

[namelessone]

I would take 2005 Nadal over the 2010 version anytime.

Why?

2010 version did basically everything better. Perhaps 2005 clay Nadal was a bit speedier but 2010 clay Nadal absolutely pwns 2005 Nadal on the BH issue and his fh was amazing for long stretches of time, not to mention his focus.

 

[Clay lover]

Why?

2010 version did basically everything better. Perhaps 2005 clay Nadal was a bit speedier but 2010 clay Nadal absolutely pwns 2005 Nadal on the BH issue and his fh was amazing for long stretches of time, not to mention his focus.

In terms of excitement, I'd definitely take 2005 clay Nadal over any Nadal.

 

[soleil]

I voted 2005 Nadal. I mean, cmon the dude then was like a wall. Even 2011 Nadal would have trouble just controlling points. Besides, 2011 Nadal is more error prone now to longer rallies than his 2005 counterpart..

 

[namelessone]

In terms of excitement, I'd definitely take 2005 clay Nadal over any Nadal.

Oh, I thought we were talking about playing level.

Yeah, in terms of fierceness on court, Nadal 2005.

I remember when he won a set against Fed in 2005 RG he did one of those jumping fistpumps(or how ever you wanna call'em) and the funny bit was that he finished that set point close to the net( and his chair) and he still did it. It looked pretty funny at the time, to see a guy so pumped up.

 

[The-Champ]

Why?

2010 version did basically everything better. Perhaps 2005 clay Nadal was a bit speedier but 2010 clay Nadal absolutely pwns 2005 Nadal on the BH issue and his fh was amazing for long stretches of time, not to mention his focus.

2005 nadal on clay was faster, more explosive footwork, fearless and didn't have that doubt look on his face, never got tired, never hesitated on his fh which he could hit confidently with spin but flattened it more than 2009-2011.

 

[jackson vile]

Peak Nadal on clay is the 2008 version... still quick but also with new found aggressiveness

Well pointed out, who are the people voting for 2011?

 

[kishnabe]

2005-2008.....was Nadal best clay court tennis. 2009- till

now...he is gradually getting weaker on clay....though he still

good enough to Dominate. His speed, his backhand reliability,

his crisp footwork, and intensity have decreased. Though he is

better as an all surface player than in 2006-2008!

 

[Spider]

2011 for sure. 2005 Nadal had the weakest competition ever on clay. The current Djokovic has reached a level much higher than Nadal, I am not sure why that is so hard to accept?

 

[Clay lover]

2011 for sure. 2005 Nadal had the weakest competition ever on clay. The current Djokovic has reached a level much higher than Nadal, I am not sure why that is so hard to accept?

The current Djokovic is better than Nadal has nothing to do with Nadal being better in 2011 or not. Nadal can be a better player on clay in 2005 while being an infeior clay court player to Djokovic at the same time.

I repeat again, people have NO CLUE when they say Nadal 2011 on clay is better than 2005. I doubt if they have seen any of Nadal's matches other than watch the highlights of him lose. They're doing this just to beat down the *******s. Even if Djokovic was indeed a better player than Nadal on clay, there's NO WAY Nadal is a better claycourter in 2011 than in 2005.

 

[Spider]

The current Djokovic is better than Nadal has nothing to do with Nadal being better in 2011 or not. Nadal can be a better player on clay in 2005 while being an infeior clay court player to Djokovic at the same time.

No my point is, Nadal had the best season last year and now just because Djokovic schooled Nadal on clay, we are having such threads. In 2005, Nadal almost lost to Ferrer, was pushed hard by Coria in Monte Carlo and Rome, and Federer. He lost sets to some other players at RG as well. It is not like it was a walk in the park for him.

We didn't have anyone with a complete game to take it to Nadal back then. By complete, I mean, a person who could defend anything Nadal throws, has a rock solid backhand, excellent forehand, ROS and all.

Djokovic has turned into a monster higher than anything Nadal can do, which is why we feel Nadal is not good enough (and that is clearly not the case).

 

[Spider]

I repeat again, people have NO CLUE when they say Nadal 2011 on clay is better than 2005. I doubt if they have seen any of Nadal's matches other than watch the highlights of him lose. They're doing this just to beat down the *******s. Even if Djokovic was indeed a better player than Nadal on clay, there's NO WAY Nadal is a better claycourter in 2011 than in 2005.

I have seen enough matches of Nadal in 05, on clay, to know, he was not this unstoppable player that people think he is. I repeat he was pushed hard by many players that year, but no one, was good enough to beat him.

 

[Clay lover]

I have seen enough matches of Nadal in 05, on clay, to know, he was not this unstoppable player that people think he is. I repeat he was pushed hard by many players that year, but no one, was good enough to beat him.

And Nadal nearly lost to a qualifier this year. I'm not sure if Nadal will be as good as some claim he is in 2011 if he played as many tournaments as he did in 2005. But overall I get your point, I guess I'm too stuck up with the idea that if 2005 Nadal played against 2011 Nadal 2005 Nadal may actually win.

 

[Spider]

Not directed to you Clay Lover but my post is in general. I actually encourage people to watch the Madrid and Rome final again, to know exactly why Djokovic has been able to do something which almost the rest of the tour couldn't do for so many years.

Djokovic was returning every serve of Nadal with ease (Nadal usually causes a lot of problems with his lefty serve to many players). Djokovic was defending every good shot of Nadal and finding a way to continue a point that Nadal would win against most people (there was hardly any free points for Nadal).

Now, we came to Djokovic's forehand, the ridiculous angles and directions he was creating and then directing them cross court and taking Nadal out of the court on his backhand side, and when that happens, he has an open court, to unleash his leathal backhand.

Of course, and the most important thing, the Nadal cross court forehand to Djokovic's backhand was something Djokovic was handling very easily. That is not a problem for him at all.

So how does Nadal actually win against him?

We are not talking about a Soderling 09 performance where a player paints a line for about 4 hours. Because to repeat that would be a challenge even for Soderling. We are talking about perfect point construction on every aspect of the game.

2005 Nadal was even worse and would lose just as bad to the current Djokovic.

 

[Double_Fault]

2005. In 2011, Nadal became the sickness of the Djokovic.

 

[zagor]

Well pointed out, who are the people voting for 2011?

Examine the poll options carefully,do you see 2008 as an option? The question is which version of Nadal is better,2005 or 2011.

Now since you seem to question people who voted 2011 I gotta ask-do you agree with the notion that Nadal declined already at the age of 24? Your answer should be quite interesting.

 

[Double_Fault]

You realise that the past 4 times Nadal has faced Djokovic, Nadal has been tired?

 

[aphex]

2005. In 2011, Nadal became the sickness of the Djokovic.

In 2011, sickness became the Nadal of the Djokovic.

 

[namelessone]

Examine the poll options carefully,do you see 2008 as an option? The question is which version of Nadal is better,2005 or 2011.

Now since you seem to question people who voted 2011 I gotta ask-do you agree with the notion that Nadal declined already at the age of 24? Your answer should be quite interesting.

It's not about age but MILEAGE.

Nadal is 25 in a month or so and has dominated one surface for SIX SEASONS. This is the seventh year. Who, among the great players to dominate a surface(borg-clay, sampras-grass, fed-grass, fed-hc), was still IN THEIR PRIME in their seventh year on that surface?
This is not about still being good/great on the surface, but about PRIMING, as in being near unstoppable with an amazing execution of their game.

Nadal won his first slam 7 YEARS AGO.

If you think a guy that started winning titles at 19 is still IN HIS PRIME at 25, then I don't know what to tell you.

I mean Fed is his 9th season since his domination started(2003) and since 2008 he has been losing steam, with a couple of exceptions(great runs).

Also, it's not what version of Nadal is better, but which is better ON CLAY.

If you put Nadal 2005 and Nadal 2011 on a claycourt, who wins. That's all.

This ain't about Djokovic as much as people want to make it so.

 

[Double_Fault]

In 2011, sickness became the Nadal of the Djokovic.

 

[fgzhu88]

LMAO, "prime" Nadal of 2011 lost a set to 30 YEAR OLD Federer on clay

this "old man" Fed was playing out of his mind to break him in the first set. It had nothing to do with Nadal's supposed decline. The fact is when Fed is playing well, he's unstoppable. But with a minor line dispute/braincramp, Federer's brittle momentum was shattered.

Ever since Djokovic finally beat Nadal in a final, a metaphoric wall was taken down, i.e. Nadal's aura of invincibility against Djoko in finals. With that gone, Nadal no longer has that "anything-you-can-do-I-can-do-better" mindset. And now, he knows what it feels like when Roger faces him. Right now, Rafa's gotta forget the fact that he had once owned Djoker and go into his next encounters the same way he went into the matches against say, Berdych or Blake, who had previously "owned" him. He needs to humbly accept that he is now the underdog and study Djokovic's weaknesses religiously.

Unfortunately Djoker is no longer his b*tch and Nadal could have prevented that had he played more intensely in the Indian Wells final.