There are a few management theories such as theories X, Y and Z, chaos and system or contingency theories, and then there are some situational, transformational or transactional leaderships one may establish even on the tennis court. Tennis students/trainees may respond in different ways to different styles of teaching/lesson management. What have you been practicing and how does that work for you?
Coaches' Management Techniques
- Thread starter TennisBro
- Start date
styksnstryngs
Professional
Big words nobody understands
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Theory X has been working well for me.
J
J
styksnstryngs
Professional
Explain it then I dare you
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
OnTheLine
Hall of Fame
As usual, you are wrong. It is Y you are using ... I am using X
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Boveri-Sutton coachosome theory alive and well.
styksnstryngs
Professional
Y are you doing this, I'm still getting over my X
Crocodile
G.O.A.T.
Simplicity is excellence in coaching and learning. We do not want to complicate things especially when working with young players but the same should apply with anyone.
A mark of an excellent coach is one who is able to relay messages in a succinct and accurate manner. The coaches job is to understand all the bio mechanics, strategies and psychology and then unpack this knowledge in the most effective and simple manner.
A mark of an excellent coach is one who is able to relay messages in a succinct and accurate manner. The coaches job is to understand all the bio mechanics, strategies and psychology and then unpack this knowledge in the most effective and simple manner.
Hard to disagree with that. Young players who wish to be the best, i'd assume, need to be squeezed the most. Coaches' "bio mechanics, strategies and psychology" may work at its best when managed the best, I'd like to think. The efficiency, time-management and aims may only be met with appropriate appoach. All in all, management techniques may assist with a closer look at what to do when and/or how. Varieties of athletes may respond to coaching in different ways.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Traffic
Hall of Fame
My son was working with a swim coach. It was a time when he was struggling a bit with tennis because of an injury and he probably had a lot of angst due to hormones and such as well. He had a bad attitude and wouldn't follow instructions. His coach later came to me and said, "I can't do anything with him unless he wants to work together"
Long talk afterwards to resolve some issues going on. Next session, he apologized to the coach and they started working hard together.
A buddy of my son's is a rather remarkably intelligent individual. He has some good skills in tennis too. But he's lazy. When he was having private coaching sessions, the coach said something similar. "I can't really help him improve if he doesn't want to put forth the effort".
I think with juniors, there are some individuals that are just self motivated, some that require a village and some that just don't care. The latter ones, I'm not sure how to motivate them.
Long talk afterwards to resolve some issues going on. Next session, he apologized to the coach and they started working hard together.
A buddy of my son's is a rather remarkably intelligent individual. He has some good skills in tennis too. But he's lazy. When he was having private coaching sessions, the coach said something similar. "I can't really help him improve if he doesn't want to put forth the effort".
I think with juniors, there are some individuals that are just self motivated, some that require a village and some that just don't care. The latter ones, I'm not sure how to motivate them.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
Simplicity, simplicity, and more simplicity.
My experience and practice is, simplicity rules. What I observed early with some coaches is they give WAY too much information to student to process and work with. That is one of the reasons I started working more with my son over having him with others (and 20+ years working as an educator). What I learned from the better coaches is a good formula to use.
My experience and practice is, simplicity rules. What I observed early with some coaches is they give WAY too much information to student to process and work with. That is one of the reasons I started working more with my son over having him with others (and 20+ years working as an educator). What I learned from the better coaches is a good formula to use.
- Start with disucssion/questioning about what will be covered to see if the students can identify the technique of pattern.
- Once the technique or pattern is known, start with discussion/questioning WHY it is important/used.
- Do fed drills to devleop the technique/pattern in a controlled way to be able to make correction and adjustments
- Do point play situations/senarios where the technique can be used. (DO NOT CORRECT ALL THE OTHER ERROR STUDENTS WILL MAKE OR TRY TO INTRODUCE OTHER VARIABLES)
- Recap and discuss/question students about their expreience with what was taught.
Smart simplicity is what I am seeking. There is so much to remember in tennis, I see even the pros forget things at times.
Now, trainees who routinely forget what they have learned may be of a concern. How do you not go back to the drawing boards when you have a planned simple practice? Reasoning helps and so do video replays if you have the option of taping your practices but re-occurring issues may eat into your drills, aims etc. If the few problems throughout a period of time you choose are the ones that keep a trainee away from raising his/her level, the coach may be in a catch 22 then.
What I have in mind is the contingent management style in which one fixes the troubles as they come. That without moving forward with any further plans. So, if the coach has a drill with ground strokes, forehand and sidestepping the balls, s/he doesn't get to sidestepping till the forehand is perfect. Sorry, I mean acceptably good to go on with it. I wonder how that may work out. I see trainers who move on even if the drill has not yielded enough success and that for reasons to keep the trainee satisfied with the flow of the practice. So, not correcting everything is understandable but moving on without producing success in one area may be of a concern.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Umm you don't actually get better in practice. In practice you just gather information and then you get better while you are asleep.
So you can practice for half an hour and see minimal improvement and still be better the next time.
J
While asleep one part of brain may process the information. If it doesn't, it may be because it's either unable to master the skill or incapable to store too much of the daily directions. This is what makes sense to me. Perhaps, I'll move my son's bed into the tennis court to allow him visualize all the guidance he either forgets or ignores on daily basis. This way he may be able to improve his tennis sleep and I double check his "gathered information" is put into practice
Seriously, your message makes more than sense as any education doesn't get to students from day to day. Young people usually realize at later stages of their lives what they really have learned. All the information that gets firstly processed into a passive part of brain, will most often be passed on to the active part of brain later on when practiced enough or when the learners have been punished for not using what they had been told. I'd say that wine gets better with age, young people with practice, sleep and punishments from life.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Cool ... I am going to hit a ton of balls this month and apply them in my sleep during my winter hibernation from tennis.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Ton of balls = 17,600 balls, which is roughly 652 balls per day. Get moving!
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Down to 17,300 ... just hit 300 windy ball machine 2hbhs ... hit with friend fell through.
I was going to blow it off because of wind, but glad I did not. The wind was a great assist to practicing those awkward short 2hbh shots. The wind was gusty, off an on, direction changes. I set the ball machine up where depending on wind ... bounced just inside service line to midway between service line. Every now and then wind would move ball sideways torward alley. One thought ... touch/controlled topspin cross court toward alley. I have done this before ... but not with (actually against) wind. It bumped up the "awkward" on short. Being able to hit that sharp touch angle in doubles from ad side would be fun.
Last edited:
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe Thomas Daniels was right after all with his "700 serves/day" suggestion...
dominikk1985
Legend
A Coach doesn't need "management techniques", he needs teaching techniques or didactic methods. There are different kind of learners (visually, kinesthetic, auditory) and each type responds to different drills and cues. Ideally the coach finds out which learning type you are and adapts his coaching.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I will just watch 700 serves a night before I go to bed.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I think a good coach/teacher needs both: teaching techniques are for the dry technical stuff; management techniques are for the inter-personal relationship. If the latter is not important, the student could likely learn everything non-interactively.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Why is everyone in this thread using such big words?
J
J
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will do?
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Pardon moi; I am in error.
The connection in between the student and teacher is a bridge to success or failure.
All those varieties of learners benefit from ways teachers/trainers bring in their concepts to the tennis courts. Methods come with suitable management styles that may or may not fit the group of learners. Having seen scores of tennis coaches who pocketed the parents' money but prepared little for the job, I can tell you that time (and money) can be waisted incredibly. Aren't we supposed to manage the time and goals/aims, the trainees and the whole lessons to insure the efficiency and to meet learners' potential?
coupergear
Professional
How did the pros learn? What did they do as Juniors? For how much we rely on video analysis of pros, we seem to have very little information on how they developed as players. Drills, conditioning, fundamentals--I guess that's the truly proprietary stuff that us park and wreck players can't access. The tennis academy type stuff.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Nice Spoonerism.
coupergear
Professional
Haha. Funny story more like a misheard lyric. When I was a kid an older person was telling me about their bicycle and they called it park and rec in contrast to their nicer bicycle, and I at the time thought they were saying park and wreck... like you park it you wreck it whatever.
sovertennis
Professional
Sorry to disrupt this erudite thread, but I don't believe that's a "spoonerism". Instead it's a pun, or perhaps a malapropism (although the latter is usually verbal, not in written form.
Re: coaching methodologies: I agree with a previous poster who wrote that a good coach will be able to call upon several methodologies based on the needs, temperaments and abilities of his/her students. Having coached for many years with players who range from beginners to NCAA champs, this, to me, is axiomatic, regardless of what pretentious terminology one might give to each method. I do not agree with the idea that a coach should stay with a particular exercise (eg forehand) at one time until the student is proficient. Sometimes, when it's clear that the student is no longer engaged in an exercise/drill and is not progressing, it's time to move on to something else. The coach and student may always come back to the exercise later in the lesson, or in a subsequent lesson (or perhaps the student will learn it that night while sleeping).
Rattler
Hall of Fame
Awesome
Similar threads
