Coaching Immortality: Will Uncle Toni always be the greatest?

I thought you said greatest coach, as in all of professional tennis. Did you mean greatest in ATP only?
By default, most threads seem to refer only to the ATP. It would be hard to compare, both to each other. Achievements don't tend to weigh, equally.
 

citybert

Hall of Fame
You cannot be the greatest coach if you only coached one guy. This is not team sports where players come and go.
 
You cannot be the greatest coach if you only coached one guy. This is not team sports where players come and go.
It's a matter of opinion. If, the one guy you coach, keeps adding new achievements, than logically, you wouldn't change your job. If that guy, is so dominant, than you won't change your job, just to prove your coaching goathood.

Also, Toni reared Nadal from scratch, making him the player, he is. Even if he had other ambitions, being Spanish with the close knitted culture and vernacular tongue, he wouldn't click with many others.
 

citybert

Hall of Fame
It's a matter of opinion. If, the one guy you coach, keeps adding new achievements, than logically, you wouldn't change your job. If that guy, is so dominant, than you won't change your job, just to prove your coaching goathood.

Also, Toni reared Nadal from scratch, making him the player, he is. Even if he had other ambitions, being Spanish with the close knitted culture and vernacular tongue, he wouldn't click with many others.
Good point but in the end players make plays the coach is not on court and even less so in tennis(lets leave hand signal jokes out) so if you ride one player its very difficult to tell if its really the coaching or the player. Yes its both and thats cliche but if he doesnt coach anyone else there is no way to figure this out and provide a logical analysis when compared to other coaches

Also tony only coaches 50-60% with Roig doing the other yes he coached nadal in juniors but we are looking at his pro career
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Most people seem to attribute Djokovic's recent success to Becker, though.
True but Vajda was with Djokovic from when he won his first Grand Slam. Before Becker joined the scene in 2013, Vajda had already coached Djokovic to 6 Grand Slam titles!
 
N

nowhereman

Guest
True but Vajda was with Djokovic from when he won his first Grand Slam. Before Becker joined the scene in 2013, Vajda had already coached Djokovic to 6 Grand Slam titles!
Exactly, so he still has a long way to go before catching Toni.
 
Good point but in the end players make plays the coach is not on court and even less so in tennis(lets leave hand signal jokes out) so if you ride one player its very difficult to tell if its really the coaching or the player. Yes its both and thats cliche but if he doesnt coach anyone else there is no way to figure this out and provide a logical analysis when compared to other coaches

Also tony only coaches 50-60% with Roig doing the other yes he coached nadal in juniors but we are looking at his pro career
Yes, the sample size makes it difficult, to get a fair idea. But, that would be the case with many other coaches. Roche coached Federer to 6 slams, but Federer had already accomplished a lot, prior to that. Even Hewitt, was successful before, Roche joined him. I guess, it's a mixture of both the coach and player. It's hard to tell, which influence is the maximum.
Nonetheless, in terms of achievements, Toni rates amongst the best.
 

donquijote

G.O.A.T.
I am not sure how many GS titles Richard Williams has as a coach but he brought up two GS winners and that alone speaks for itself. Also I am thinking the total number of titles of two sisters should be more than 14 under his wings.
Yes, it is not ATP but still he is the greatest coach of all times.
 

donquijote

G.O.A.T.
Richard Williams is heavily underrated. This man is a tennis savant and genius. Mad props to Mr. Williams. Always and forever.
This man is unbelievable.

It’s been well documented that Richard Williams began training his progenies when they were four years old. But Williams told CTV’s Canada AM on Friday, that his grand plan for rearing would-be world champions began before their births, when he drafted a 78-page manifesto outlining how his daughters would reach the top of the tennis world.

“Before they were born, a lot people used to think I was crazy because I used to walk around with a sign, ‘number 1 girls in the world’ he said.
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
This man is unbelievable.

It’s been well documented that Richard Williams began training his progenies when they were four years old. But Williams told CTV’s Canada AM on Friday, that his grand plan for rearing would-be world champions began before their births, when he drafted a 78-page manifesto outlining how his daughters would reach the top of the tennis world.

“Before they were born, a lot people used to think I was crazy because I used to walk around with a sign, ‘number 1 girls in the world’ he said.
RW is certainly a great, great pick. Toni is a great pick too.
In both cases, however, they worked with incredibly gifted athletes. Athletes who outshone their peers in athletical and physical abilities (partly due to their training, partly due to their genetics).

I think Magnus Norman is on his way to get a very, very impressive resume. Taking two fully developed players in their 20's, and making them world beaters and grand slam contenders is quite something.
True but Vajda was with Djokovic from when he won his first Grand Slam. Before Becker joined the scene in 2013, Vajda had already coached Djokovic to 6 Grand Slam titles!
Vajda did a great job, but I think it's beyond doubt that Becker added something to the equation and made him the Ultron he's today.
 

citybert

Hall of Fame
Yes, the sample size makes it difficult, to get a fair idea. But, that would be the case with many other coaches. Roche coached Federer to 6 slams, but Federer had already accomplished a lot, prior to that. Even Hewitt, was successful before, Roche joined him. I guess, it's a mixture of both the coach and player. It's hard to tell, which influence is the maximum.
Nonetheless, in terms of achievements, Toni rates amongst the best.
Put any other coach in Tonis place Rafa probably wins the same amount or majors give/take a few. of course it's hypothetical because part of Tonis value to Rafa is that he is related so assume other said coach is related. Plus if you read Rafa's book it seems like Toni doesnt offer much in terms of tennis its mostly mental and encourage advice. Rafa said he didnt need his help in 2008 during the rain delay and after his epic 5 setter win over Nando in AO in 09 Tonis advice was imagine a guy with a gun in the stands who will shoot you if you quit. anybody could have offered this.
 
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