college tennis money grabbing business - Tennis Collegiate Exposure Camps

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
Because my younger son is currently in high school and a competitive tennis player, he gets this email from Tennis Collegiate Exposure Camps and it stated:

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Do you want to train with College Tennis Coaches from programs like Penn, Harvard, Yale and many more? You can spend your summer learning the game from the best college coaches in the country. Time is running out to secure your spot for these exclusive events held once a year at University of Pennsylvania, Harvard and Yale/Wesleyan (cut off time for Resident registrations for Harvard and the first Penn camp is Thursday, June 12 at 11:59pm)


The CEC Camp format is very interactive and differs from a showcase. What you get:
  • These camps are designed for competitive players entering grades 8-12
  • College coaches and players interact and train together (unlike a showcase*)
  • Singles and doubles matches recorded with Universal Tennis (UTR)
  • All camps exclusively taught by current college coaches from Division 1, 2, 3 & NAIA schools.
  • Showcase your game, work ethic and coach-ability
  • Learn about the college recruiting process and how it works
  • Network and build relationships with college coaches
  • Improve your game, showcase your talent, learn about college tennis and get motivated to play at the next level!
2 days camp (10 hours of training time) at the cost of $1000 and 4 days camp (20 hours of training time) at the cost of $1500. WTF. I wonder how much face time the players can interface with coaches.

Is it highway robbery or what? Is this how college tennis coaches make money? For $1500, I can get 12 hours of tennis instructions from one of Sloane Stephens former coaches and I am sure they are much better than these college coaches.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
@bobleenov1963 Juniors attend showcases to be seen by coaches and to get on their radar. There are just 3-4 ways to get on a coach's radar of a top D1/Ivy school-play national 1 tourney like Kzoo, play high level jr ITFs and have a world jr ranking, have a really high uTR which a player wont have unless he/she is playing top national/world juniors or adult futures, or attend a showcase. To play a national 1 (which usually costs $1200-$1500 for flight for player/parent, $150 entry fee, hotel, rental car, food, and even more if traveling with coach), players usually have to play 8-20 lower sectional and/or national tourneys to be endorsed for that nation 1. The costs of travel for the lower tourneys will probably run $4000-$10,000 on top of coaching and equipment expenses. Jr ITF are mostly in FL, Cali or international with more in Caribbean/Central Am than in US. So unless you live in Florida and can cheaply play the ITFs in Florida, paying $1500 to spend 4 days with coaches and hear what you need to work on to be recruited could be a bargain if you can train and play cheaply locally in your home state-e.g. men's opens, state tourneys, etc. Coaches can offer official visits fall of junior year. That camp could be very helpful to a rising soph to be know what to work on the following year-too late for rising senior as the last Ivy spot is usually decide by August and many by spring of junior year though the commitments are usually not reported until green lit by admissions likely letters. Could be helpful to rising junior too if that player just needs to tweak his game.

When coaches talk to players at tourneys, they can only talk to players before they start playing or after they lose. The rules may have recently changed so coaches can talk at the end of a day's play. At a camp like above, recruits probably have much longer conversations with coaches. Coaches at tourneys arent going to give you advice on how to change your game, but coaches at a camp like the above might. A player probably gets more honest feedback at a camp like the above. Even if a coach does not think a player is a good fit for his Ivy program, he might suggest a D3 that is a good fit or recommend the player to other coaches he knows. It is hard for a coach to gauge a player's practice work ethic just from watching a tournament match. When players go for official or unofficial visits, coaches cant watch them with their players, but recruits can play with team.

I think a camp like the above would be a great choice for a player who has a strong work ethic, is a late bloomer, has the academic background/test scores close in level to Ivy nonathletes, and who thinks his/her UTR is understated. Considering some parents pay thousands for SAT prep, college counseling, etc, paying $1500 to get guidance on a good tennis fit is not unreasonable. Now my son never went to a camp like that, but we spent a lot to have him play Kzoo 3x and Nat Clays twice. Those were great experiences, but a camp might have been cheaper if he had been an Ivy candidate.

Also a camp like the above probably has lecture and Q&A sessions on the unique requirements for Ivy League recruiting-SAT subject test, et al. I doubt a former coach of Sloane Stephens will have that knowledge. What connections does fhe former coach of Sloane Stevens have with existing college coaches? If that coach has D1 connections, that helps with recruiting. Some college coaches will look at a player if recommended by a junior coach with a reputation of developing players who are successful at high level in college.

Combine the camp with touring other colleges nearby. Drop him/her off and look at other schools after camp finishes-look at D3s as well as Ivys-lots of great D3s in NE. Part of the cost is for room and board. My son once played a junior tourney at Harvard and the discounted hotel rate was $150+ before taxes.

There are cheaper exposure recruiting camps in Florida in late Nov/early Dec around $400 for 2 days plus hotel. However, the coaches are watching players, not training players I think. Think they are USP Showcase and IMRecruitable, but if you are considering Ivy or high D3, the NE summer ones are probably better though I know the Penn coach went one year to one of the Florida exposure camps-not sure if any other Ivy coaches did.
 
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bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
First of all, I can easily afford $15,000, let alone $1500 but I found the idea of spending $1500 for 4 days at this event is completely nonsense. As I've mentioned before, I can get 12 hours of private coaching from one of Sloane Stephens former coaches for $1500. If my sophomore kid needs to tweak his game, who is better at doing that, professional ATP/WTA coaches or college coaches? There are so many players there at camp that it is almost impossible for the coach to determine players practice work ethic, not with only 2 days or 4 days.

I know how expensive to play on the tennis circuit because one of my nephews is currently playing Jr. ITF and he has a full time coach travel with him all the times.

We're in the 21st century so everything I need to know about recruiting is already available online. I do not send the kid to these camps to find out. I would rather spend that $1500 on ATP/WTA coaching instructions for my kid.

Your comment "Coaches at tourneys arent going to give you advice on how to change your game, but coaches at a camp like the above might." Howu do you know that? Has you or your son ever been coached by an ATP or WTA coach before?
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
[QUOTE="bobleenov1963, post: 13443954, member: 765559"
Your comment "Coaches at tourneys arent going to give you advice on how to change your game, but coaches at a camp like the above might." Howu do you know that? Has you or your son ever been coached by an ATP or WTA coach before?[/QUOTE]
I meant college coaches at an event like Kzoo are not going to tell a player what to change in their game. If they are really interested, they will pass that info on to the player's junior coach. Of course a player's junior coach will advise player on changes if they travel with them to a tourney like Kzoo. And yes son was lucky enough to have coaches his last 15 months of high school who had played Slams and coached some pros. His game went up a lot under their training; ironically he improved a lot after he committed. However, if you train with a ATP/WTA coach, your son will probably be pushed to homeschool, play ITF, etc which may conflict with the education he needs if he wants to play Ivy.

Read some of the testimonials about the camp. Connections are important, and Ivy connections are different than regular D1 connections. It sounded like players got personal feedback and interaction with coaches-dont know pro-to-student ratio. Since you can afford it, why dont you do both-hire Sloane's ex-pro for instruction, and send son to the camp to know what the Ivy's expect and which Ivy might be best fit? See which coach's personality and training style is a good fit for your son. The more information the better-hard for teenagers and parents to figure out the best place to play, and the more close interaction a player might have with college coaches, the clearer the choice might be. Coaches may text, call, or Email on a regular basis but still not the same as face-to-face training and interaction. Camps like that are unique-kind of a gray area exception for college coaches to train a player they might later recruit.
 
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LoxBage

New User
Camps are just one thing, money grabbers. College coaches participate because they get paid not because they want to recruit. If you attend because you want to talk face to face with them and deal with the fake-interest it is ok, but do not get sold with the fact that they are going to recruit. That institution, Collegiate Exposure Camps is a rip off from the very well known and respected Edd Krass. They even took a very similar name from Ed Krass "College Tennis Exposure Camp". This is run by Tarek Merchant who has a very bad reputation with a lot of institutions and college coaches. I would not recommend to anyone their camps. In some emails, they have made templates where the college coach emails you, even as it comes from their server (something that is illegal)

Trust me, you are better off saving all that money and participating in a DTS Showcase or any other event where you can get actual realistic exposure.
 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
[QUOTE="bobleenov1963, post: 13443954, member: 765559"
Your comment "Coaches at tourneys arent going to give you advice on how to change your game, but coaches at a camp like the above might." Howu do you know that? Has you or your son ever been coached by an ATP or WTA coach before?
I meant college coaches at an event like Kzoo are not going to tell a player what to change in their game. If they are really interested, they will pass that info on to the player's junior coach. Of course a player's junior coach will advise player on changes if they travel with them to a tourney like Kzoo. And yes son was lucky enough to have coaches his last 15 months of high school who had played Slams and coached some pros. His game went up a lot under their training; ironically he improved a lot after he committed. However, if you train with a ATP/WTA coach, your son will probably be pushed to homeschool, play ITF, etc which may conflict with the education he needs if he wants to play Ivy.

Read some of the testimonials about the camp. Connections are important, and Ivy connections are different than regular D1 connections. It sounded like players got personal feedback and interaction with coaches-dont know pro-to-student ratio. Since you can afford it, why dont you do both-hire Sloane's ex-pro for instruction, and send son to the camp to know what the Ivy's expect and which Ivy might be best fit? See which coach's personality and training style is a good fit for your son. The more information the better-hard for teenagers and parents to figure out the best place to play, and the more close interaction a player might have with college coaches, the clearer the choice might be. Coaches may text, call, or Email on a regular basis but still not the same as face-to-face training and interaction. Camps like that are unique-kind of a gray area exception for college coaches to train a player they might later recruit.[/QUOTE]

seriously, How many Americans get a full ride? A partial is the best hope. The numbers can't be good for Americans.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
However, if you train with a ATP/WTA coach, your son will probably be pushed to homeschool, play ITF, etc which may conflict with the education he needs if he wants to play Ivy.

Unfortunately my son neither has the grade nor desire to attend Ivy. He is also taking private lessons with ATP coach twice a week and hitting with a former D1 NCAA finalist twice a week. I texted them last night and they both said going to these camps is not needed. Just continue to do what he is doing now will be fine. They want me to get him a physical trainer to get him physically stronger, faster and more agile in the next three months. He then can start playing tournaments in the fall. They said that I will get better ROI that way than going to these camps.

Since you can afford it, why dont you do both-hire Sloane's ex-pro for instruction, and send son to the camp to know what the Ivy's expect and which Ivy might be best fit? See which coach's personality and training style is a good fit for your son. The more information the better-hard for teenagers and parents to figure out the best place to play, and the more close interaction a player might have with college coaches, the clearer the choice might be. Coaches may text, call, or Email on a regular basis but still not the same as face-to-face training and interaction. Camps like that are unique-kind of a gray area exception for college coaches to train a player they might later recruit.

I need to clarify this. My older son, who is 15 years older than his younger brother, is paying for all tennis expenses. I myself can not afford it. I am clueless when it come to college recruiting. My older son played at a D3 and he did all the work by himself. Both the ATP coach and the former D1 NCAA finalist said to my son not to worry about college recruiting. They know many college coaches and that the coaches will return their calls when the time come.

On a related question. The email I receive is from "Tennis Collegiate Exposure Camps" and it has all the dates at Ivy League Campuses. Aside from being a waste of money, is it a legit camp?
 

Nacho

Hall of Fame
Is it highway robbery or what? Is this how college tennis coaches make money?

It is and it isn't. It's not something to be outraged about, but in your situation definitely not something worth pursuing. These camps are two fold: they give the college coaches a way to make extra income and yes, they are also an underhanded way to look at and recruit players by coaches who are strapped by the NCAA with recruiting rules. benefit for players is they get exposure to coaches they otherwise can't contact directly. These are also good coaches who enjoy teaching and coaching young players, so there is value for the player. In the end, it really just depends on how badly a player needs this kind of exposure. But its not a rip off by any means, and the cost is relative to other types of camps.
 

tennisjunky

Rookie
It's just another revenue stream!

Seriously..... everyone on this forum can discuss this and other issues, and while not all agree, we all understand the system and these programs...….. HOWEVER my MAJOR concern is, think of all the parents (you know the ones flipping the bills) out there, being sold on these programs thinking they have value. And thinking their son/daughter will get a scholarship or exposure..... these are the people that these programs target.

I'm not saying these programs are worthless.... but they are expensive for the real value that they give.
Parents may buy into this one time but usually not a second...… and this is one of the reasons why USA tennis suffers.
Parents get disillusioned with tennis and pull their kid out for another sport..... or not take tennis seriously there after.

I see this every week at our club, and its sad!
The parents that truly believe EVERYTHING the "USPTA" coach say's and not really understanding the industry trying to make money behind their every comment.

Camps, NCAA rule restrictions, high cost of training, tidal waves of internationals, scholarships, pipelines, Title IV, certifications, foreign recruiters, USTA involvement, ITA, UTR, training academy's... etc. etc. etc. all have skin in the game trying to EXTRACT money out of the parent that is just looking for an honest shot for their kid to play college tennis.

Another reason WHY college tennis needs to be 100% REMOVED from the college system.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
It's just another revenue stream!

Seriously..... everyone on this forum can discuss this and other issues, and while not all agree, we all understand the system and these programs...….. HOWEVER my MAJOR concern is, think of all the parents (you know the ones flipping the bills) out there, being sold on these programs thinking they have value. And thinking their son/daughter will get a scholarship or exposure..... these are the people that these programs target.

I'm not saying these programs are worthless.... but they are expensive for the real value that they give.
Parents may buy into this one time but usually not a second...… and this is one of the reasons why USA tennis suffers.
Parents get disillusioned with tennis and pull their kid out for another sport..... or not take tennis seriously there after.

I see this every week at our club, and its sad!
The parents that truly believe EVERYTHING the "USPTA" coach say's and not really understanding the industry trying to make money behind their every comment.

Camps, NCAA rule restrictions, high cost of training, tidal waves of internationals, scholarships, pipelines, Title IV, certifications, foreign recruiters, USTA involvement, ITA, UTR, training academy's... etc. etc. etc. all have skin in the game trying to EXTRACT money out of the parent that is just looking for an honest shot for their kid to play college tennis.

Another reason WHY college tennis needs to be 100% REMOVED from the college system.

Really? So that we can have more money spent of basketball? Or are you suggesting removing all college sports?
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
seriously, How many Americans get a full ride? A partial is the best hope. The numbers can't be good for Americans.
So true. Only 35-40% of the players on the top 40 teams or the top 125 ranked players each year are American. Most of the players in the top 3 are international or USTA PD kids who have ITF world rankings. If you look at the UTRs of players on the roster, often there is a big drop between #5 and #6. That is because the coach may only have books or 10-15% scholarship $ left for lower lineup players after giving out most of the 4.5 scholarships to 1-4. Best bet for US 3-5 stars: 1) Choose an in-state D1 school so even if athletic $ is just books, you can afford in-state tuition plus you may get better merit in-state 2) If you are smart, play for an Ivy or top D3 with a large endowment. Even without athletic scholarship, even players with family incomes around $125K could end up just paying $15K-$40K for a $70K education. Some of those schools give free tuition and only charge R&B for players with family income $125K or below. 3) Look for MMs and/or D2s that play a good schedule and offer packages of 50-80%+ with combined athletic and merit.
My son’s class year eight 5 star players chose top academic/athletic D3 schools; they could have played D1, but they probably would have paid more $ for a lesser education. From the ones I've talked to, they love their D3 experience.
 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
So true. Only 35-40% of the players on the top 40 teams or the top 125 ranked players each year are American. Most of the players in the top 3 are international or USTA PD kids who have ITF world rankings. If you look at the UTRs of players on the roster, often there is a big drop between #5 and #6. That is because the coach may only have books or 10-15% scholarship $ left for lower lineup players after giving out most of the 4.5 scholarships to 1-4. Best bet for US 3-5 stars: 1) Choose an in-state D1 school so even if athletic $ is just books, you can afford in-state tuition plus you may get better merit in-state 2) If you are smart, play for an Ivy or top D3 with a large endowment. Even without athletic scholarship, even players with family incomes around $125K could end up just paying $15K-$40K for a $70K education. Some of those schools give free tuition and only charge R&B for players with family income $125K or below. 3) Look for MMs and/or D2s that play a good schedule and offer packages of 50-80%+ with combined athletic and merit.
My son’s class year eight 5 star players chose top academic/athletic D3 schools; they could have played D1, but they probably would have paid more $ for a lesser education. From the ones I've talked to, they love their D3 experience.

Thanks for the insight. The conclusion is that 90% or more of the players know that being a pro is not in there future? What would UCF be considered at this point? Does the faculties at the National campus play a huge factor for UCF? Roddick had to leave Oklahoma for a reason.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Unfortunately my son neither has the grade nor desire to attend Ivy. ..... I texted them last night and they both said going to these camps is not needed. .. Both the ATP coach and the former D1 NCAA finalist said to my son not to worry about college recruiting. They know many college coaches and that the coaches will return their calls when the time come....On a related question. The email I receive is from "Tennis Collegiate Exposure Camps" and it has all the dates at Ivy League Campuses. Aside from being a waste of money, is it a legit camp?

Comments on above
Camp legit/necessary? It is listed in this article on summer camps, tournaments, and exposure events: https://parentingaces.com/showcases-combines-camps-2019-update/. Join the free version of this site if you havent already-lots of good info and podcast including one on the camp you got a flyer for. The Drake camp is probably better than the one on your flyer as it is limited to 20 students. However your pros are right, if your son does not have the grades/scores for Ivy or high D3, he doesn’t need to go. The only event on that list my son participated in was the New Balance High School tournament at Harvard which he played after his freshmen and soph years; now it is in Ojai in Cali. One year Keegan Smith who now plays for UCLA won it. If your son plays HS tennis, it is a great tourney with New Balance providing free events/entertainment most nights and many meals for players as well as a bag of shoes and clothes. However, your son’s pros will probably tell him not to play high school tennis; however, many regions have high levels of HS tennis-some Mid west states, Texas, South, Florida, etc. Probably worth playing for a couple years-he would not have to play all 4. HS tennis teaches teamwork, gives players an identity and sense of belonging at a school where they may not have time for other ECs, and also provides cheap practice match play so players are ready when they play USTA/ITF tournaments. Some players pay to attend matchplay at their academy. Save the academy/pros for focused specialized drills or working on strategic patterns in small group session or private. OK to pay coach/pro to watch matches occasionally to see if player is executing shots/patterns worked on in practice.

ATP coach/former D1 player and college recruiting
Half truth-those guys can get you official visits with top d1 coaches but unless your son is blue chip or jr ITF world player they can”t get you the athletic $. Depends on how much time you have and how much you can spend to travel to top tourneys. Sometimes just playing well at one tourney can get a coach's attention so try to play at least one junior ITF in 10th or 11th grade-college coaches do attend the fall ones. Coaches like high UTRs and it's hard to get there without Nat 1, jr world ITF, or Futures play. Maybe they will get him good enough so you have the “privilege” of paying $30-$40K+ a year for him to play 5 or 6 at a Power 5 flagship university out of state. One of my son's coaches had developed players who played 1-4 at top SEC schools. My son was invited for official visits at Big10, ACC, and SEC schools, but he cancelled the rest after his first Power 5 offer-out of state tuition was too high with 10-15% athletic offers. He didn’t have the test scores to get merit too. He had MM offers of athletic/merit at several schools he liked for 1/3-1/2 the price so he chose between them instead. Son has had good experience at his MM and used to enjoy playing close matches with high ranked collegians and international juniors at summer and fall Futures until ITF limited those opportunities. Only cost $40 to play and he went to ones where he had free or cheap places to stay. Beat a UTR 13.8 last summer...Wont get the chance this summer as his ITF world points expire this month.

.” “Unfortunately my son neither has the grade nor desire to attend Ivy” As an American, he needs high grades and high SAT (1300+) to have a better chance to earn merit at an out-of state flagship university. Some wont give merit to out-of-state players unless they are National merit semi-finalists. If he doesn’t have the scores and isn’t a blue chip, it will be expensive to play unless he chooses MM or in-state
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Thanks for the insight. The conclusion is that 90% or more of the players know that being a pro is not in there future? What would UCF be considered at this point? Does the faculties at the National campus play a huge factor for UCF? Roddick had to leave Oklahoma for a reason.
UCF would be a great choice if Roddick is open to US players-hasnt had many on his rosters. The AA midmajor conference has teams that are better than most of the Big 10 teams outside OSU, Mich, Ill, and Mich (tho Penn State had a great year in '19). West Coast Conf with San Diego and Pepperdine is pretty good too. If your son could play on the lineup at in-state school in any of those MM conference/schools, he would get to play a great schedule for reasonable tuition. Look at Slam.tennis rankings of MM schools here: https://www.slam.tennis/teams/rankings.asp? season=2019&div=mm&topic=men&week=14 Plus at UCF, your son could try to get in as an alternate to Florida fall Future Qualis. Any of the teams in the top 20-30 probably play some Power schools on their schedule. Many of the schools on the list make it to NCAAs and winter ITA kickoff-some as 3 seeds or even a few 2 seeds. The slam list is only a couple years old-it wasnt around when my son was a recruit.
 
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ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Age old discussion, but with tennis. Affordability and opportunities are what they are. For someone that can afford an opporutniy for their child to attend the camp, no matter anyone's preceived value, they will send them. It will at the least get their kids name out there and network with others. Akin to attending all kinds of overpriced social events that aren't worth it, but tons of people do it to remain visible within whatever industry.

A good kid that is always known when brought up in conversations is going to have more opportunities than a really good player that doesn't get dicsussed. UTR has value there too, but only for the toppish players, then there is a whole section of huddles UTR players scrambling to get themselves out there.

I get what the OP is saying, but it is what it is.
 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
UCF would be a great choice if Roddick is open to US players-hasnt had many on his rosters. The AA midmajor conference has teams that are better than most of the Big 10 teams outside OSU, Mich, Ill, and Mich (tho Penn State had a great year in '19). West Coast Conf with San Diego and Pepperdine is pretty good too. If your son could play on the lineup at in-state school in any of those MM conference/schools, he would get to play a great schedule for reasonable tuition. Look at Slam.tennis rankings of MM schools here: https://www.slam.tennis/teams/rankings.asp? season=2019&div=mm&topic=men&week=14 Plus at UCF, your son could try to get in as an alternate to Florida fall Future Qualis. Any of the teams in the top 20-30 probably play some Power schools on their schedule. Many of the schools on the list make it to NCAAs and winter ITA kickoof-some as 3 seeds or even a few 2 seeds. The slam list is only a couple years old-it wasnt around when my son was a recruit.

thanks again, my son is a firefighter. I'm always curious about the business of tennis. I honestly don't see it as a viable career path unless you are a superstar. its such a hard way to make a living. We have a D3 in the area that's in the top 25 or so but can't get to elite status. when will be the next time an American wins the NCAA singles title? do we have a superstar on the horizon?
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
@jcgatennismom. Thank you for the insight.

My older son will take care of the tuition, R&B, books and any school related expenses for his younger brother. Therefore, he will not need any merit aid or tennis scholarship $. My rising high school junior son does not have the grade to attend Ivy but he scored 1580 on the SAT and 36 on the ACT. He just does not like the daily grind of high school :). He thinks high school is a "burden" for him :rolleyes:

He is so happy now that school is finally over so that he can either take tennis lessons from the ATP coach, hitting with the former D1 finalist or just working out all day long.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
I'm not saying these programs are worthless.... but they are expensive for the real value that they give. Parents get disillusioned with tennis and pull their kid out for another sport..... or not take tennis seriously there after.
Another reason WHY college tennis needs to be 100% REMOVED from the college system.

Most middle to upper middle class parents spend $$ for ECs for their kids-could be sports, music, drama, etc. As long as parent dont spend what they cant afford, it's a valid personal choice. No reason to eliminate college tennis. Parents do need to be educated so they dont have unreasonable assumptions, and USTA should do surveys and print realistic information on American's participation on D1 teams instead of decades old info. No entity prints statistics on average tennis scholarships for Americans. There will be cheaper pathways to college tennis in the future-more HS matches are entered into UTR, there are cheap UTR tourneys locally. In the near future, players may be able to earn a college scholarship to play tennis at a low D1 or D2/NAIA just from playing high school tennis and a few reasonable local or regional summer tournaments-maybe spending $2-5K instead of the 15-$20K plus many parents spend now. Getting to the level to play high D1 is going to continue to be expensive. International recruiting agencies ask their clients upfront what their budget is-many can only pay $10K or less annually out of pocket. US parents and players often go through recruiting not talking about $ until coaches bring it up in offers. For some parents, $ is not an issue, but maybe US parents should be more open about budget earlier in the process. The college coaches cant be blamed-they only have 4.5 scholarships, and the internationals are open about their limited budgets, so the US players are the ones that get squeezed. It is disappointing for US players and parents to spend a year talking with a coach, visiting team, working on getting better, finally getting there only to realize the athletic $ are too small to fit the family budget. It wastes the time of player, parent, and college coach. However, the college coaches probably hope if they leave finances to the end and if the player really wants to attend the school, the US parents will find a way to fund it. The MM/D2 coaches are more upfront with possible scholarship $ early in the process. Each singles line can only win one point. However, the line 1 player could easily be receiving 5x-10x the scholarship of the line 6 player. No wonder many Power teams have weak 6's-other recruits have turned down offers before coach finds one to play for cheap.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
@jcgatennismom. Thank you for the insight.

My older son will take care of the tuition, R&B, books and any school related expenses for his younger brother. Therefore, he will not need any merit aid or tennis scholarship $. My rising high school junior son does not have the grade to attend Ivy but he scored 1580 on the SAT and 36 on the ACT. He just does not like the daily grind of high school :). He thinks high school is a "burden" for him :rolleyes:

He is so happy now that school is finally over so that he can either take tennis lessons from the ATP coach, hitting with the former D1 finalist or just working out all day long.

36 on the ACT? That is the perfect score! He will get into ANY school including Ivy and MIT based on that and most likely get some merit scholarship too.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
36 on the ACT? That is the perfect score! He will get into ANY school including Ivy and MIT based on that and most likely get some merit scholarship too.

Not so fast. Not with a 3.0 high school GPA :(. He really does not really care much for school. He thinks high school is a waste of time. He spends about 99% of his time either on tennis or music. He wants to major music in college because he thinks it is probably the easiest major ;).
 

rafazx10

Rookie
Not so fast. Not with a 3.0 high school GPA :(. He really does not really care much for school. He thinks high school is a waste of time. He spends about 99% of his time either on tennis or music. He wants to major music in college because he thinks it is probably the easiest major ;).
I hope it is not the case, but he might have a hard time in the work force being that smart but also being bored with daily grind.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Not so fast. Not with a 3.0 high school GPA :(. He really does not really care much for school. He thinks high school is a waste of time. He spends about 99% of his time either on tennis or music. He wants to major music in college because he thinks it is probably the easiest major ;).

I know a kid who got a perfect SAT score and supposedly wrote a fantastic essay who got admitted to Penn State. He was a perennial loser in school, academically and socially, getting into fights, being summoned for mischief, failing grades etc. and his parents were being driven crazy.

But after a year, he discontinued college and came back home to setup a computer business which went nowhere and he is now back at some local community college saying that he has turned his life around.
 

rafazx10

Rookie
Not if he becomes a musician composing creative stuff like John Williams
That would be amazing! And it is great that he is following his passion.
But even if he does something he loves he will need to work hard at some stuff he doesnt. And I dont thnk john Williams went to music school because he thought it was the easiest major.

FYI I also disliked high school a lot, even college was mostly a waste of time, but you should talk to him that he needs to still apply himself to stuff he doesnt like.
 
36 on the ACT? That is the perfect score! He will get into ANY school including Ivy and MIT based on that and most likely get some merit scholarship too.
The vast majority of kids with perfect scores still get rejected by MIT and schools in the Ivy League. A high test score is only one component of many considered by schools that practice holistic admissions. In addition to high test scores, kids need to have a rigorous high school transcript with a high GPA along with meaningful extracurricular activities.

These schools do not offer merit or athletic aid - all aid given is strictly need-based.
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
ATP coach/former D1 player and college recruiting
Half truth-those guys can get you official visits with top d1 coaches but unless your son is blue chip or jr ITF world player they can”t get you the athletic $.

For most tennis parents that I hang out with, athletic $ is the least of their concern because of of them can easily afford college tuition. Most of them will be "walk-on" and play for a couple of years. They stop playing tennis after college sophomore year to concentrate on academic.

Just received another email about the for Yale University held at Wesleyan University from July 8 through 11 at the cost of $999 for two days and $1500 for 4 days. That's like $500/day. What can your kid learn in two days camp?
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
For most tennis parents that I hang out with, athletic $ is the least of their concern because of of them can easily afford college tuition. Most of them will be "walk-on" and play for a couple of years. They stop playing tennis after college sophomore year to concentrate on academic.

Just received another email about the for Yale University held at Wesleyan University from July 8 through 11 at the cost of $999 for two days and $1500 for 4 days. That's like $500/day. What can your kid learn in two days camp?
In 2-4 days a player could (if camp is good) get an unbiased analysis of his game level and what he needs to work on, college style practice drills, on court coaching during matchplay similar to college, recruiting guidance, etc. Some of these camps have only been around a couple years; some have been around 30 years, e.g. this one with testimonials, lists of alumni, etc: https://collegetennis.com/camp-highlights/ However on looking at the alumni list, most went to D3 colleges so these camps may not be best for players looking to play D1. Certainly a camp is not the only way to get this info.No need to go to a Yale related camp if your son is not interested or doesnt have the academics for a selective school. However, dont entirely rely on a junior coach you are paying because he may say what you want to hear. Also junior coaches may not keep up with all the different tournaments and the process for endorsement. A lot of high performance coaches will push full time training and playing junior ITFs which can affect academics, will definitely be expensive, and may not be necessary. The walk ons you mention may play very few matches if any within their conference, esp for Power 5 teams. My son had good coaches late in his HS career who pushed home/virtual school, Jr ITFs or traveling to easier international Futures, etc. However our son took the coaches' technical advice but stayed in school and still ended up ahead of the guys in that academy that spent a lot of $ and time traveling. One did end up at a Power 5 school but he didnt get athletic $ and he only played 5 conference/or other Power 5 matches over 2 years, It makes jr coaches look good to say their players were recruited by Power 5 schools, but many will sit on the bench-that's why you need an honest appraisal by someone who is not the paid junior coach.

In past posts, you have stated that you dont know much about recruiting and that your son is very bright but does not apply himself in school so just has a 3.0 GPA. Maybe he would benefit from some career counseling or tests to find out what he is interested in. You and he will want to find a college where he can play tennis and also be successful academically in a major he enjoys. Playing sports in college is not for the lazy and unmotivated. NCAA estimates D1 players of nonrevenue sports spend 30-32 hours a week in sports related activities. Everyone thinks it is just 20 hours but you need to read what is countable in those 20 hours. Only 3 hours of play a day counts even if players play two 2 1/2 hour matches in fall invites and spends the rest of the day watching teammates-maybe they are either watching or playing from 8am-10pm on a Saturday excluding lunch and dinner breaks but only 3 hours count. Not counted in those 20 hours are volunteer activities for the team, compliance meetings, student athletic association meetings, entertaining recruits on visits, medical treatment/rehab, travel, voluntary practice or strength/conditioning outside team practice, watching girls' team, watching other sports teams (usually teams are strongly encouraged to watch certain other sports teams matches), and banquets/awards ceremonies. You will see student athletes on their laptops while they are supposedly watching other teams.

In one of your posts, you stated your son " just does not like the daily grind of high school :). He thinks high school is a "burden" for him :rolleyes:" How is college going to be less of a burden? Will he like studying in a van during travel or taking exams early? How will he like required freshman study hall? Coaches want players with a good work ethic on and off court. How will he like getting back on campus at midnight after a flight with an 8am class the next am with no food in the fridge after a weekend trip and no time for breakfast. College athletes are often exhausted, hungry (some days may only have time to grab a protein bar between class and practice), and sore, but play on for the love of the game. College athletes may play when they are at 70-80% coming back from illness or injury knowing they will probably lose their line but play so the guys below them can win at their regular positions.

Whether your son goes to one of these camps or not, you and/or he need to talk to current college players to make sure playing college tennis is what he wants. If he wants more free time for his music, maybe he should play club.
 
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Nostradamus

Bionic Poster
Because my younger son is currently in high school and a competitive tennis player, he gets this email from Tennis Collegiate Exposure Camps and it stated:

-----
Do you want to train with College Tennis Coaches from programs like Penn, Harvard, Yale and many more? You can spend your summer learning the game from the best college coaches in the country. Time is running out to secure your spot for these exclusive events held once a year at University of Pennsylvania, Harvard and Yale/Wesleyan (cut off time for Resident registrations for Harvard and the first Penn camp is Thursday, June 12 at 11:59pm)


The CEC Camp format is very interactive and differs from a showcase. What you get:
  • These camps are designed for competitive players entering grades 8-12
  • College coaches and players interact and train together (unlike a showcase*)
  • Singles and doubles matches recorded with Universal Tennis (UTR)
  • All camps exclusively taught by current college coaches from Division 1, 2, 3 & NAIA schools.
  • Showcase your game, work ethic and coach-ability
  • Learn about the college recruiting process and how it works
  • Network and build relationships with college coaches
  • Improve your game, showcase your talent, learn about college tennis and get motivated to play at the next level!
2 days camp (10 hours of training time) at the cost of $1000 and 4 days camp (20 hours of training time) at the cost of $1500. WTF. I wonder how much face time the players can interface with coaches.

Is it highway robbery or what? Is this how college tennis coaches make money? For $1500, I can get 12 hours of tennis instructions from one of Sloane Stephens former coaches and I am sure they are much better than these college coaches.

How do you get 12 hours with sloan's coach again ???????
 

bobleenov1963

Hall of Fame
However, dont entirely rely on a junior coach you are paying because he may say what you want to hear. Also junior coaches may not keep up with all the different tournaments and the process for endorsement.

One did end up at a Power 5 school but he didnt get athletic $ and he only played 5 conference/or other Power 5 matches over 2 years, It makes jr coaches look good to say their players were recruited by Power 5 schools, but many will sit on the bench-that's why you need an honest appraisal by someone who is not the paid junior coach.

The Jr. coach might not but the hitting partner with my son was a former NCAA finalist and he is also the assisting tennis coach at a D1 school so he knows the recruiting process very well. I also do not rely entirely on the jr. coach. I asked for a 2nd opinion from the NCAA finalist and I do my own research to verify/confirm what they said.

In one of your posts, you stated your son " just does not like the daily grind of high school :). He thinks high school is a "burden" for him :rolleyes:" How is college going to be less of a burden? Will he like studying in a van during travel or taking exams early?

He does not like to study but he is a very good exams taker. That's how he scored so high on the SAT and perfect score on the ACT.

Whether your son goes to one of these camps or not, you and/or he need to talk to current college players to make sure playing college tennis is what he wants. If he wants more free time for his music, maybe he should play club.

There are two things in life that he loves the most. Composing music, playing tennis and working out. He can spend 7 hours a day playing tennis and working out. After that seven hours, he spends 4 hours playing and writing music. He does not like doing anything else. He wants to skip his high school senior year and go to college early to study music.
 
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