Collegians in summer ITF/ATP events

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Watched Fearnley live today as he won the Lincoln Challenger. They guy is so good. Such a heavy forehand and honestly remarkable court coverage.
Now that Murray has retired, Fearnley is the 4th highest ranked Brit after Draper, Norrie, and other summer surprise almost 30yo Billy Harris. Fearnley at live ranking of 162 is ranked higher than Dan Evans. Jubb whose got back on track this summer is the #6 Brit
 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
Now that Murray has retired, Fearnley is the 4th highest ranked Brit after Draper, Norrie, and other summer surprise almost 30yo Billy Harris. Fearnley at live ranking of 162 is ranked higher than Dan Evans. Jubb whose got back on track this summer is the #6 Brit
Dan Evans gave up his ranking points for the Olympics. Evans is Direct Entry into the US open at 58.
 

stoxtrader

New User
For the ladies:
The USTA has also confirmed its wildcards for the qualifying stage of the New York Grand Slam: Clervie Ngounoue, Liv Hovde, Tyra Grant, Akasha Urhobo, Sophie Chang, Mary Stoiana, Kristina Penickova, Julieta Pareja, and Valerie Glozman.

 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
For the ladies:
The USTA has also confirmed its wildcards for the qualifying stage of the New York Grand Slam: Clervie Ngounoue, Liv Hovde, Tyra Grant, Akasha Urhobo, Sophie Chang, Mary Stoiana, Kristina Penickova, Julieta Pareja, and Valerie Glozman.

first round of qualifying is 25K. those players may not have made 25K so far this year.
 

Sureshot

Hall of Fame
Man, I just watched a points compilation of Quinn v Goffin at the Cary Challenger. Quinn has such an explosive game but just misses way too much. If he reduces his unforced errors and does a better job with returns, he can go far. Love his game style.
 

andfor

Legend
That''s more than the finalist in a 250 event. The winner gets 35K, the finalist gets 20K.
You may be off on that. Just look at two ATP 250 winner and finalist purses. Winner on both $100K+ and finalist on both $65K+. But I get the point that for younger and not tour level player, the prize money at the qualies is often a boost to what they are winning at the challenger levels.
 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
You may be off on that. Just look at two ATP 250 winner and finalist purses. Winner on both $100K+ and finalist on both $65K+. But I get the point that for younger and not tour level player, the prize money at the qualies is often a boost to what they are winning at the challenger levels.
I was looking at the WTA Prague Open. The conversation was about the women getting WC into the qualies.
 

andfor

Legend
I was looking at the WTA Prague Open. The conversation was about the women getting WC into the qualies.
I see and you're right, I'll follow along better next time HAHA. Forgot the women's purses at the 250 level are significantly less than the ATP.
 

andfor

Legend

Sureshot

Hall of Fame
Impressive run by Michelsen at Cincy. Worked his way through qualifying taking down McDonald to get to the MD and then Griekspoor before falling to Sinner 4&5. From the highlights it appears he more than hung in there with Sinner.

Hope he has a good USO. Currently 52 in the live rankings.
 
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Thank you, this is great news. I've always thought housing was a big deal. Do you really feel like a pro staying at someones house? Trending in the right direction.

The answer varies, but definitely a yes at the Houston ATP250. The guest house I stayed at was over 3,000 square feet and a 5 minute walk to the site.
 

TennisBro

Professional
Thank you, this is great news. I've always thought housing was a big deal. Do you really feel like a pro staying at someones house? Trending in the right direction.
I've heard of a few pros that routinely use the cheapest possible accommodation/homestay/guest houses; Milos Raonic is one of them. Lodgings are out of control in NA/EU and not worth supporting if tournaments don't sponsor the roof over your head. Having said that, however, there may be tournament suggested hotels that you may want to pay for as the player; there are places in M15, M25 that offer accommodation and all food when having gym and courts within your hotel room and such deals are worth considering.
 

stoxtrader

New User
Does anybody know exactly how the US Open draws its field of 128? I see the top 96 get into the main draw. Then there are 8 wildcards and 16 from the qualifying round. That gets us to 120 players, leaving 8 players plus anybody who declines to play due to injury or any other reason. I know they take "lucky losers" from the top ranked players who lost in Q3 for last minute main draw withdraws, but do they expand the invites from the previous 96 to the top players in the current rankings right before the qualifying tournament on Monday to get a committed 112 players (104 ranked plus 8 wildcards)?
 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
Does anybody know exactly how the US Open draws its field of 128? I see the top 96 get into the main draw. Then there are 8 wildcards and 16 from the qualifying round. That gets us to 120 players, leaving 8 players plus anybody who declines to play due to injury or any other reason. I know they take "lucky losers" from the top ranked players who lost in Q3 for last minute main draw withdraws, but do they expand the invites from the previous 96 to the top players in the current rankings right before the qualifying tournament on Monday to get a committed 112 players (104 ranked plus 8 wildcards)?
I think it's the top 104.
 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
That makes sense. It's the top 98, but 6 have protected rankings giving us 104, 8 wildcards, and 16 qualifiers to get to 128. I'm not sure if the alternates for known absent players (like Nadal) are chosen today and the next tier play in the qualifiers?
They just take the next player off the alternate list. for example with Nadal out, the 105th player will be next.
 
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stoxtrader

New User
Stoiana looked good today. Very solid on defense to extend rallies. I kind of felt bad that I didn’t hear her opponent’s name cheered once. Tough for Russians these days I guess? She had really solid groundstrokes, but oddly seemed to struggle with Mary’s second serve more than anything. Maybe she was trying to do too much with it or it had more spin/kick than I thought watching in person.
 
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Sureshot

Hall of Fame
Today Bruno Kuzuhara (#394) got blown out 2&1 by a player ranked 183 in the first round of the USO qualies. I can’t but think his getting a wildcard was political. He’s hardly made an impact at the Challenger level. How long will his Jr AO championship be the gift that keeps on giving (wildcards)? I can think of at least three college players who are more deserving..,Micah Braswell, Ozan Baris and Cooper Williams for starters. Braswell was the best college player for a stretch this past season. Let’s recognize talent and reward it!
 
I don't think Michal Braswell, Ozan Baris, or Cooper Williams have had better results on the pro tour than Bruno unfortunately...i think the result would have been about the same for those guys. Anyways, Nishesh won today. I only caught parts of the 2nd set, but the level was so bad even the commentators were making fun of the players. glad to see he eventually pulled it out
 
Nishesh gets it done against Alex Bolt. Alex bolt has such a weird game, few are hitting that flat these days I feel. Great win and winnable matchup against hamad medjedovic next who seems much more comfortable on clay.
 
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I wouldnt even say im particularly a fan of Spizz but if he loses this one after his monumental choke in the team national finals....****. Edit: thank god he closed it out.
 
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Pretty disappointed in the young americans Tien and Michelsen tbh. Tien did not look ready against fils - in particular, his first serve was so poor that he actually won less % of points off the first than the 2nd. Michelsen had a good win against spizz but looked like a deer in headlights against sinner. Zheng, Svajda, Forbes, Nishesh, Quinn, nothing impressive to note from those guys either. Even compared to the Nakashima/brooksby years there was more promise there, much less the tiafoe/paul/fritz era. Shelton is the one bright spot though great to see him playing well
 
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Sureshot

Hall of Fame
I guess Tien's "doesn't miss" game has a ceiling. He has to become more offensive and it starts with the serve. Frankly, the Chinese female player Zheng has a bigger serve than Tien as does Sabalenka. I'd cut Michelsen some slack. He went up against the #1 player and played a really good first set. He probably discovered that at the elite level opponents just don't defend difficult situations but turn them into offense. Happened several times during the match. Michelsen outclassed Spizzirri and he's been playing well throughout. Am high on him, probably the best after Shelton of the current crop.
 

Sureshot

Hall of Fame
OMG! Massive shoutout to Diallo who takes down 24th seed Fils in four. No longer flying under the radar. What a player!
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
OMG! Massive shoutout to Diallo who takes down 24th seed Fils in four. No longer flying under the radar. What a player!
I was just going to post on this-his live ranking is now 103. He had not won a MD Slam match before this US Open although he had played in qualis of 4 other slams and made it into the 1st rd of this year's French Open. What do you think separates Diallo from the rest of the post collegians in ATP 400-his height (6'8), the support of the Canadian tennis association (he played Davis Cup and is now #3 ranked in Canada right on Shap's tail), tough competition playing line 2 in the SEC? He was around 450 last summer one year after his last KY dual match, and now an additional year later he is close to breaking into the top 100. It helps as one of the top Canadians, that he can get WCs into either the Qualis or MD of the Canadian Masters as well as multiple challengers.

The Canadians have made good use of the US college system-with the exception of Felix and Shap, all the players in top 1000 from Canada 29 and under all play/played college tennis-Diallo, Galarneau, Draxl, Boulais, Baadi, Tudorica (USF), Ben George (WMU), Juan Carlos Aguilar (Texas A&M). I am not complaining; my son had the opportunity to play two of the above-one he beat in a Future and another was an unfinished close dual match. To all those who protest international players in college, the glass half full thinking is American players (even MM guys like my son) can have the opportunity to play rising international stars without getting a passport and the expense of leaving the US. I think Canadian and British players have benefited most recently from college system. In other European countries like Italy, Spain, and France, there is enough tennis infrastructure, more junior ITFs, club players, etc that players in their 20s have competitive opportunities to prepare them for Tour outside of college. As an interesting note, Diallo's career high in jr ITFs was only 581. Jr ITF ranking is only a so so predictor of either college or pro success. From my state, we had a jr ITF player ranked in top 10 in the world, was expected to be a star but just played just OK for a SEC team, and then struggled on the pro circuit. Ben Shelton's jr ITF high was only 306. A lot of talented players play few if any jr iTFs (expensive travel) and the top 15-17yos start playing Futures instead of jr ITFs.

What are common factors for college players who break or come close to breaking into the top 100 within 2 years of college tennis? NCAA finalist/winner, Kzoo finalist/winner enables some-others never break top 100. Height helps. It can help to have a parent who was a pro, e.g Shelton but other sons of former pros may not pursue pro careers, e.g. son of Wayne Ferreira (former ATP #6 and former Tiafoe coach) ended up mid lineup for one of the weaker SEC teams and only played a few Future Qualis.

Has anyone seen an analysis which determines at what ATP ranking an American player should preempt or leave college to turn pro? As expensive as the Tour is, former collegians have a home base at the college where they can probably drop in for free training, coaching, WCs, and of course former teammates as practice hitting partners between tourneys...

One other interesting point-there are 29 former collegians in top 200-four of those didnt even attend P5 colleges-Koepfer of Tulane, Nicolas Moreno De Alboran of UC-Santa Barbara, Holmgren of San Diego, and Murkel Dellien of Wichita State (the last one would be a good college tennis to pro trivia question). Ask your college tennis fans outside this board to see if they can name these 4-they will be doing good to get two right LOL.
 
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Sureshot

Hall of Fame
Yes junior ITF rankings don’t always correlate to Tour success (although there is statistical significance). In recent times Trent Bryde was a can’t miss prospect who fizzled out. Ditto Axel Geller. And it’s too early to opine on Kuzuhara, another junior #1 but my sense is he’ll stall around 300.
 

silentkman

Hall of Fame
I was just going to post on this-his live ranking is now 103. He had not won a MD Slam match before this US Open although he had played in qualis of 4 other slams and made it into the 1st rd of this year's French Open. What do you think separates Diallo from the rest of the post collegians in ATP 400-his height (6'8), the support of the Canadian tennis association (he played Davis Cup and is now #3 ranked in Canada right on Shap's tail), tough competition playing line 2 in the SEC? He was around 450 last summer one year after his last KY dual match, and now an additional year later he is close to breaking into the top 100. It helps as one of the top Canadians, that he can get WCs into either the Qualis or MD of the Canadian Masters as well as multiple challengers.

The Canadians have made good use of the US college system-with the exception of Felix and Shap, all the players in top 1000 from Canada 29 and under all play/played college tennis-Diallo, Galarneau, Draxl, Boulais, Baadi, Tudorica (USF), Ben George (WMU), Juan Carlos Aguilar (Texas A&M). I am not complaining; my son had the opportunity to play two of the above-one he beat in a Future and another was an unfinished close dual match. To all those who protest international players in college, the glass half full thinking is American players (even MM guys like my son) can have the opportunity to play rising international stars without getting a passport and the expense of leaving the US. I think Canadian and British players have benefited most recently from college system. In other European countries like Italy, Spain, and France, there is enough tennis infrastructure, more junior ITFs, club players, etc that players in their 20s have competitive opportunities to prepare them for Tour outside of college. As an interesting note, Diallo's career high in jr ITFs was only 581. Jr ITF ranking is only a so so predictor of either college or pro success. From my state, we had a jr ITF player ranked in top 10 in the world, was expected to be a star but just played just OK for a SEC team, and then struggled on the pro circuit. Ben Shelton's jr ITF high was only 306. A lot of talented players play few if any jr iTFs (expensive travel) and the top 15-17yos start playing Futures instead of jr ITFs.

What are common factors for college players who break or come close to breaking into the top 100 within 2 years of college tennis? NCAA finalist/winner, Kzoo finalist/winner enables some-others never break top 100. Height helps. It can help to have a parent who was a pro, e.g Shelton but other sons of former pros may not pursue pro careers, e.g. son of Wayne Ferreira (former ATP #6 and former Tiafoe coach) ended up mid lineup for one of the weaker SEC teams and only played a few Future Qualis.

Has anyone seen an analysis which determines at what ATP ranking an American player should preempt or leave college to turn pro? As expensive as the Tour is, former collegians have a home base at the college where they can probably drop in for free training, coaching, WCs, and of course former teammates as practice hitting partners between tourneys...

One other interesting point-there are 29 former collegians in top 200-four of those didnt even attend P5 colleges-Koepfer of Tulane, Nicolas Moreno De Alboran of UC-Santa Barbara, Holmgren of San Diego, and Murkel Dellien of Wichita State (the last one would be a good college tennis to pro trivia question). Ask your college tennis fans outside this board to see if they can name these 4-they will be doing good to get two right LOL.
Are you saying that the college coach will work with this player instead of his own players? If you can't make into the top 200 quickly, you need to give up the dream.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Are you saying that the college coach will work with this player instead of his own players? If you can't make into the top 200 quickly, you need to give up the dream.
No, I was saying that former players from top programs can use their college towns as a base, get some coaching, training, hit with former teammates between tournaments which would reduce costs. Define quickly. How long after college exit should it take a top 20 ITA player to break top 200? top 100? Some players in last 5 years were affected by short-lasting Transition Tour in 2019 ( except for SF-F at 25K, players earned ITF world vs ATP points at Future matches) and then pandemic which shut down 2020 matches and reduced 2021 matches (existing points were held for an extra year I think but that made it harder for new players to break in). On the positive side there is now the Accelerator program to provide top 20 ITA WCs into Challenger MD or Qs but there may be a single Accelerator WC per draw for each Challenger.

A few players may be in the 200-400 range before they leave college. Let's look at the example of Chris Eubanks. He turned pro in summer of 2017 after winning 2 MD matches at ATL 250 and Quali matches at Cincy 1000; his ranking was in low 300s at the summer's end. 2 1/2 years later right before the pandemic, he was ranked around 207. It was slightly more than 3 years later in 4/23 that he broke into top 100 at #85; of course his career was affected by pandemic. 4 months later he was at a career high of 29 in 8/23. Now a year later he has dropped to 120 but still has made $600K YTD. Was it worth the 6 years it took him to get from low 300s to break top 100? He probably thinks so. He has earned $3.3MM. I just ask these questions because tennis is so unpredictable outside the top 30. Guys can jump 600 ranking spots in one year. Others get in top 100, top 50 after 2-6 years of pro play but fall back to 100 or even 200 after one year.

It will be interesting to see how long top college players from 2022 forward take to crack top 100 to see if there is a pattern. Obviously those that have parent, college, booster, or national association funding to travel with a coach and have access to a trainer year round while have advantages.
 
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