Badmrfrosty
Rookie
Obviously, you aren't in marketing.... or internet marketing. I'm guessing engineer.
Easy is still hard if you want conversions. ie sales or profit.
Continued decline of USTA tournament play in my area
- Thread starter Turbo-87
- Start date
Easy is still hard if you want conversions. ie sales or profit.
jmc3367
Rookie
Yes it does. I get so frustrated sometimes trying to use it I just stop. I actually can navigate it fairly well and it's still problematic. I personally believe the USTA should reach out to players within 100 miles of every tournament via email or possibly text msg. They sure as heck send me emails when my membership is about up. Certainly they could be a bit more proactive for tournaments. My final thought on the USTA. When,if ever, have you seen a USTA add on TV during a high profile sporting event like a baseball game, football game or something else. USTA needs to promote tennis not just collect member fees.
jmc3367
Rookie
I kinda disagree with that. I think the USTA has responsibility to help promote events. Not unlike Lucas Oil in Racing or NASCAR with local racing. I know NASCAR is on the decline as well but for different reasons. They do still promote local short track racing. What About the PBR Professional Bull riders association. They promote the heck out of Rodeos. The PBA (pro bowlers) does the same. Granted USTA will not be buying air time to promote your NTRP events but they could send email blast and even texts to USTA members to let them know. Lastly maybe the tournaments could extend dead line to enter to Thursday. That way some people might enter without having to commit so early. Lastly, maybe every tournament doesn't need every single division. Maybe specializing in just a few divisions may help. Just some thoughts
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
Same thing happening in Mid-South Illinois - which used to be two different districts but combined a few years back. Tournaments just not what they used to be and some have been eliminated. Maybe the cost, maybe leagues are more popular. The reason for each individual tournament declining or is varied. Playing a tournament in Champaign Illinois this weekend and it looks like a decent turnout - but far below what it used to be. Open draw is 18 players, including someone who originally signed up for 35s, but had no one else sign up. My draw in the 45s is three players - we'll all play each other (2 matches each), which is fine since this is my first singles tournament in 4 years. But normally I'd want a bigger draw with potentially more matches. 55s has eight participants, which isn't horrible around here. On-site doubles sign up until noon on Saturday. That's always a nice option if you want to play more.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
What specifically is problematic?
For me:
- entering only one name in the search field returns only results where it is the surname
- there are no wildcards; instead, you just enter an incomplete string [I just discovered this]
- I can't search for tournaments by location and then sort hits by date
- No legend for what tournament abbreviations mean [pc, wo, etc]
None of these things have prevented me from finding and entering a tournament I was interested in.
jmc3367
Rookie
to start with doing it on an android phone throws everything off. not sure about an Iphone as there is an app. secondly when navigating between pages search data can get lost and then next thing you know your searching unlimited miles. or all tournaments which Brings back all the JR stuff. When looking at players, results will show up if you are looking at all players but not in specific divisions or draws. Lastly how hard would it be to set up an automatic notification. Anything within 100 miles, or whatever you desire, should be auto pushed out to your email. The site overall is very very clunky.
jmc3367
Rookie
LOL.. wouldn't you know it. I just checked that again and it works...But I know for sure sometimes it doesn't
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Fair enough; I've only rarely used it on a smartphone so that's not where the majority of my experience is.
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
I get the frustration, but if they don't have enough people for substantial brackets in some divisions, I understand offering fewer divisions, in effect combining them. Sucks being a 40-something 4.5 and your only option is Open because the highest NTRP they have is 4.0. I prefer when they have open and then age groups instead of NTRP categories, but that can have similar negatives.
Rattler
Hall of Fame
Lol. I know, when I play tournaments I always register for the Seniors 50+ draw...I don’t want to play an energizer bunny 20 something. I can handle singles play, but unfortunately rarely does the draw make and I get pushed into the 18 and over draws anyway.
Definitely. Their mission is to promote and grow the game. If you think that doesn't include promoting events then I'm not sure what to say.
User experience isn't just about whether a dedicated person can get to the end result though. TennisLink is an objectively bad web site (from a technical standpoint), but it's also woefully cumbersome to use. It's inefficient with how things are loaded, navigation/operation isn't even consistent, I could go on all day. I used to source web design work for small business/orgs to young people who were in school. There are elements of TennisLink that I wouldn't have accepted years ago from college students getting paid less than $500. So even though you and I can bang out our results, I can assure you I get complaints all the time from people who don't know how to use it. Sometimes I think they're being... "unnecessarily challenged", but those people are your audience too. I grouse at work sometimes that people are being unreasonable, but if you aren't meeting their expectations it doesn't matter.
As for @jmc3367 mobile experience. That's not good, as the majority of web traffic is now coming from mobile devices. You don't even have to have an app, as a well designed mobile version will work for Apple & Android (and god forbid something like a Blackberry or Windows phone).
The core point is that a bad web site will effect people differently. More technically savvy or experienced users will get around the poor design and limitations. However, you're going to lose a lot of people along the way due to frustration. There's also the matter of perception. When people see an antiquated design they tend to have a less positive experience. I'm hopeful the long time developing a replacement is because they're doing a total rehaul instead of just a facelift. We'll see.
OnTheLine
Hall of Fame
Here are my $0.02.
We have killed off tournament participation all by ourselves.
First league participation is experiencing a growth in number of leagues (18+, 40+, 50, etc. multiple mixed divisions 18-39, tri level etc. etc.) such that the entire year is filled with an active league. That makes entering a tournament more difficult as you are already committed to your league matches ...
Second ... what is with tennis players not registering until the last possible minute?
I am planning on a tournament for 7/4 weekend. Each year it fields about 8-10 doubles pairs per NTRP. It is 6/14 and there are Zero applicants/competitors registered.
Makes me think, I don't want to register if no one is doing it .... and so does the next person and the other person, etc. etc. until there is no tournament to be had.
We have killed off tournament participation all by ourselves.
First league participation is experiencing a growth in number of leagues (18+, 40+, 50, etc. multiple mixed divisions 18-39, tri level etc. etc.) such that the entire year is filled with an active league. That makes entering a tournament more difficult as you are already committed to your league matches ...
Second ... what is with tennis players not registering until the last possible minute?
I am planning on a tournament for 7/4 weekend. Each year it fields about 8-10 doubles pairs per NTRP. It is 6/14 and there are Zero applicants/competitors registered.
Makes me think, I don't want to register if no one is doing it .... and so does the next person and the other person, etc. etc. until there is no tournament to be had.
Turbo-87
G.O.A.T.
I have wondered that as well. In the past I have always checked out tournaments just to see what the current entries were so I could see if it was even worth traveling for. I have seen some at least double in size the last hour of registration. I think if more people registered early it would give others an opportunity to see there are players in their desired division and enter themselves. Honestly, I have checked some, found low entries and just forgotten to check back. I get that people are busy and don't know about availability until the last minute but it does contribute to the paucity of entries overall.
MathGeek
Hall of Fame
Refunds are difficult to get. Often the last minute registrations are either waiting to see if the event will get to critical mass to actually run or waiting to see if the weather forecast is favorable for the event to actually run.
A number of organizers just want to hold onto our money and give "credit" toward a future event if the event does not run due to weather or if a subset gets cancelled due to low participation.
A second factor is that it's uncool to sign up for multiple events. Why not wait to see which event has more folks signed up before committing? Lots of weekends in greater Atlanta provide multiple options, especially when you consider USTA, UTR, and independent options.
OnTheLine
Hall of Fame
Well, Vegas doesn't have weather issues 99.99% of the time ... it just doesn't rain, and you don't cancel for wind or heat.
And there are never multiple options here .... we are perhaps 25% the size of greater Atlanta ... we are lucky to have one option every 3 months. Seriously.
And I have had only one instance of needing a refund ... got it immediately, no issues.
tdhawks
Professional
Same thing in Omaha. Tournaments have been on a drastic decline for the last few years. Our league coordinator is constantly sending out emails and texts to promote tournaments in the area. I personally don’t think anybody cares to give the USTA anymore money than what individuals have to pay for membership fees to begin with, plus tournament and league fees.
The bulk of tennis players in my area play league, not tournaments. And to go along with that, our leagues are on a decline as well. There are only 3, 4.0 men’s team in town and each team is maxed out per roster. There could easily 6+ teams in our area, but people choose not to “play” and would rather be rostered on a team with a chance to advance. So I pay my USTA membership fee and pay to play league and we get 6 matches. Mind you out of the 6 matches each player probably only plays half because our roster is maxed so each person really only gets 3/4 matches. It’s a mess.
Sorry, got a little off topic there but that’s the way it is over here.
The bulk of tennis players in my area play league, not tournaments. And to go along with that, our leagues are on a decline as well. There are only 3, 4.0 men’s team in town and each team is maxed out per roster. There could easily 6+ teams in our area, but people choose not to “play” and would rather be rostered on a team with a chance to advance. So I pay my USTA membership fee and pay to play league and we get 6 matches. Mind you out of the 6 matches each player probably only plays half because our roster is maxed so each person really only gets 3/4 matches. It’s a mess.
Sorry, got a little off topic there but that’s the way it is over here.
I think there are many reasons. I started playing tennis about 20 years ago. At that time there were many local tournaments. Many were member/guest tournaments at various facilities, some were annual tournaments that usually got a good draw and often divided into 7.0 and below and 7.5 and above. The tournaments usually had a full draw, they lasted a week and had A, B and C flights so that everyone usually had at least 3 matches. At that time USTA leagues offered 18 & Over, Senior (50 and over) and Mixed 18 & Over. Then other leagues came along and Seniors was split into 40 & up and 55 & up. These leagues became more popular because people didn't have to commit to a whole week and they paid about the same for a league season as a tournament entry fee. That is part of the reason for the decline in tournaments.
Another big reason for tournament declines is a societal change. Back in the day (20 years ago), people stuck to the tournament match times and dates and did not have an expectation that the schedule would work around them. They set aside the week knowing that they had to play at the times posted on the draw. About 10 years ago, people started expecting the tournament to work around their personal schedule. And tournament directors started giving in to people's requests to re-schedule matches. I stopped playing tournaments after several bad experiences of getting jerked around on match times or dates due to other people's bad planning. Once upon a time, if someone was about to advance to a final but knew they wouldn't be able to play the final, they would graciously retire on match point so that the opponent could advance. Now, finals get delayed for several days or even weeks if 1 person can't play the final. It's crazy. But sadly, people in general have become very entitled and they sign up for tournaments even though they have several conflicts. If the tournament director or opponents won't accommodate their conflicts, they go into full attack mode. It just gets old. I've talked to several people who also don't play tournaments due to the "non schedule" and other players expecting you to work around their conflicts.
Another big reason for tournament declines is a societal change. Back in the day (20 years ago), people stuck to the tournament match times and dates and did not have an expectation that the schedule would work around them. They set aside the week knowing that they had to play at the times posted on the draw. About 10 years ago, people started expecting the tournament to work around their personal schedule. And tournament directors started giving in to people's requests to re-schedule matches. I stopped playing tournaments after several bad experiences of getting jerked around on match times or dates due to other people's bad planning. Once upon a time, if someone was about to advance to a final but knew they wouldn't be able to play the final, they would graciously retire on match point so that the opponent could advance. Now, finals get delayed for several days or even weeks if 1 person can't play the final. It's crazy. But sadly, people in general have become very entitled and they sign up for tournaments even though they have several conflicts. If the tournament director or opponents won't accommodate their conflicts, they go into full attack mode. It just gets old. I've talked to several people who also don't play tournaments due to the "non schedule" and other players expecting you to work around their conflicts.
JoelDali
Talk Tennis Guru
Pickleball has ruined tennis. Kids cannot transition to tennis after swatting those stupid paddles around.
This has led to a decline in overall competition for tennis.
Naked selfie Instagram marketing is more important and a more noble pursuit.
Facebook Moms want their kids to generate likes from half naked selfies. Not Wimbledon victories.
This has led to a decline in overall competition for tennis.
Naked selfie Instagram marketing is more important and a more noble pursuit.
Facebook Moms want their kids to generate likes from half naked selfies. Not Wimbledon victories.
sredna42
Hall of Fame
Just reading this thread and ruminating on the decline of tennis, was chatting with this russian i know, and he said that back home, tennis clubs were kinda like social hubs. People would go just to hang out and watch matches on tv, talk about tennis, not just play, and spot tournaments would happen if enough people were there they'd just throw a few bucks in each for a prize, then start playing.
Its no wonder they produce so many good players.
Its depressing to contrast that with the stories written above, and the situation here (empty courts reclaimed by councils for bocce etc)
Its no wonder they produce so many good players.
Its depressing to contrast that with the stories written above, and the situation here (empty courts reclaimed by councils for bocce etc)
All Russian pros train outside Russia.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
I played in a USTA tournament and it was kinda dumb.
Drove 40 minutes to play a match against a 4.0
I can do that at home, or in the USTA league.
Last time I checked, the USTA touranment has 2 players signed up.
I no longer even open the email.
I played a UTR tournament and played UTR8 and UTR10.
That was totally worth it.
Drove 40 minutes to play a match against a 4.0
I can do that at home, or in the USTA league.
Last time I checked, the USTA touranment has 2 players signed up.
I no longer even open the email.
I played a UTR tournament and played UTR8 and UTR10.
That was totally worth it.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Of the 50 people in my overall hitting roster (3.0 to 4.5)
I'd say 2 of them have ever played in a tournaments.
So, even very serious tennis players don't bother with tournaments.
And most are not even in the same state. LOL
Most tennis players are cheap as hell, and would NEVER spend $50 to play tennis,
when they can play with their friends for free.
I'd say 2 of them have ever played in a tournaments.
So, even very serious tennis players don't bother with tournaments.
And most are not even in the same state. LOL
Most tennis players are cheap as hell, and would NEVER spend $50 to play tennis,
when they can play with their friends for free.
