optic yellow
Legend
Like pro golfers with their wedges
Convince me on buying a new paddle.
- Thread starter MasturB
- Start date
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
Played some more pickleball with my son - he has a tournament coming up again. A guy who plays a lot of pickleball was watching us play singles and the way we were trying so hard to hit spin with our low end fiberglass paddles, and suggested we use hair spray on the surface to temporarily get more grip.
I’m pretty sure this wouldn’t be legal for actual play but could this work to let us both see how to play with a more grippy surface before actually buying a paddle with that grippy surface?
I’m pretty sure this wouldn’t be legal for actual play but could this work to let us both see how to play with a more grippy surface before actually buying a paddle with that grippy surface?
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
Try the Joola Perseus Gen 3 and you will be able to hit with lots of topspin. My 23 years old just pickle a 5.0+ player with the Perseus Gen 3. His opponent was too happy when he found out that my boy used a non-approved paddle, LOL....
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
My $117 Apollo spins just as much (but not the power), if not more than your $280 Joola Perseus Gen 3. If you are playing singles, most will want more power and heavier to go along with the spin.
Also … you can now buy legal version of your paddle.
JOOLA Perseus MOD TA-15 Pickleball Paddle | Pickleball Warehouse
www.pickleballwarehouse.com
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
I also demo the MOD TA-15 and it doesn't have as much power as the Perseus Gen 3. To me, the banned version is the best paddle out there, IMHO.My $117 Apollo spins just as much (but not the power), if not more than your $280 Joola Perseus Gen 3. If you are playing singles, most will want more power and heavier to go along with the spin.
Also … you can now buy legal version of your paddle.
JOOLA Perseus MOD TA-15 Pickleball Paddle | Pickleball Warehouse
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Who knows … $200 mil lawsuit over Gen 3. FWIW … 3 or 4 of the top paddle reviewers found it to be the same. I can’t remember if any cut open the TA yet to compare to Gen 3. You also get variances in production batches (grit), and Joola‘s rep on quality control isn’t great based on comments. Most paddles are manufactured in China, so you would think any US paddle company would find quality control challenging.
Edit:
Yes, Chris (Pickleball Studio) did cut open the paddles. fyi … there is some thinking out there that the diving board movement of core at foam edge causes quicker core crushing.
Kew also cut it open and has good comparison stats:
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optic yellow
Legend
200M lawsuit over a pickleball paddle?
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
yep … game of thrones going on at the top of $Big$ Pickle.
edit: short version … Joola had biggest paddle launch ever, and USAP delisted them after the paddles shipped to customers. Food fight.
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optic yellow
Legend
That's, um, well...
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
optic yellow
Legend
Like literally USAP indicated to them the paddle was acceptable and then changed their mind after distribution was ongoing?
Edit: Sorry I'll watch the videos later when I have time but I must know this answer now.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
The guy said in the video that the MOD TA-15 has less grit than the Perseus 3. That gives the perseus 3 with more power and spin.Who knows … $200 mil lawsuit over Gen 3. FWIW … 3 or 4 of the top paddle reviewers found it to be the same. I can’t remember if any cut open the TA yet to compare to Gen 3. You also get variances in production batches (grit), and Joola‘s rep on quality control isn’t great based on comments. Most paddles are manufactured in China, so you would think any US paddle company would find quality control challenging.
Edit:
Yes, Chris (Pickleball Studio) did cut open the paddles. fyi … there is some thinking out there that the diving board movement of core at foam edge causes quicker core crushing.
Kew also cut it open and has good comparison stats:
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Two versions of the story … 1) Joola pulled a fast one and sent tamer paddles for testing and then hotter ones on launch vs 2) USAP just had a change of heart after all the public complaints of “too hot/dangerous”.
In the published USAP rules you can’t have a “trampoline effect”, and Joola included “trampoline” in their prelaunch advertising. Gearbox PPE face trampolines, and has been legal for months.
I’m for the following fwiw … which is not worth much
:- I think we have reached the max power that should be allowed, whether or not Joola Gen3/Gearbox PPE … or a little less
- I think we should allow much more spin from here
- I think power and spin should be policed by metrics of how it plays, not materials used … open up the inovation
- given we have a limit on mph and rpm … I absolutely think dwell/trampoline/pocketing should be legal. Currently paddles and crap plastic balls just don’t have a satisfying feel (do have satisfying trajectory and shot making). Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m convince feel could be drastically improved still staying within the metrics. I thought Gearbox and Joola was a move in that direction, but I didn’t like the feel of either (only 5ish minutes with both)
- move this one to the top … replace these crap balls … hurry … I’m old
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Grit doesn’t give more power, but does help with spin (although that isn’t as much of a rule is you would think, our Vatic Pro paddles don’t feel very gritty and are high tier spin).
Kew showed the difference of spin on his charts … 2200 vs 2400, but keep in mind that his dependent on player’s technique. Jack Sock could spin @Injured Again ’s Amazon paddle more than we could with your Joola.
fyi … I player that hits a lot of spin and hours will degrade the carbon face/peel ply resin surfaces fairly fast. Think 100 rpm a month for example. Some players will smooth out spray on grit in days instead of months. Neither is acceptable with a $280 consumable … we need pickleball racquets and strings (crappy strings of course so it stays under the speed limit
)bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
@ByeByePoly, what is your opinion of the Proton Series 1 paddle?
optic yellow
Legend
Personally:Two versions of the story … 1) Joola pulled a fast one and sent tamer paddles for testing and then hotter ones on launch vs 2) USAP just had a change of heart after all the public complaints of “too hot/dangerous”.
In the published USAP rules you can’t have a “trampoline effect”, and Joola included “trampoline” in their prelaunch advertising. Gearbox PPE face trampolines, and has been legal for months.
I’m for the following fwiw … which is not worth much
- I think we have reached the max power that should be allowed, whether or not Joola Gen3/Gearbox PPE … or a little less
- I think we should allow much more spin from here
- I think power and spin should be policed by metrics of how it plays, not materials used … open up the inovation
- given we have a limit on mph and rpm … I absolutely think dwell/trampoline/pocketing should be legal. Currently paddles and crap plastic balls just don’t have a satisfying feel (do have satisfying trajectory and shot making). Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m convince feel could be drastically improved still staying within the metrics. I thought Gearbox and Joola was a move in that direction, but I didn’t like the feel of either (only 5ish minutes with both)
- move this one to the top … replace these crap balls … hurry … I’m old
i) I trust your account of things completely
ii) Much more than tennis, the true test of skill at pickleball lies with the use of wooden
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ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I haven’t seen one so no chance to hit. It sounds like hope on the spin not degrading so fast.
Proton is like the Sasswatch … probably awesome but rare sighting.
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ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
oak elbow
optic yellow
Legend
Oak elbow is a sign of being bad at the game.
Injured Again
Hall of Fame
Having played table tennis in the long ago past, I think pickleball would be destroyed by allowing paddles with much greater levels of spin. I have, for fun, hit a pickleball with my table tennis paddle and I can hit serves that literally no one can return.
The ability to generate spin means that sensitivity to incoming spin is also increased. Playing table tennis, there are times when the paddle must be oriented as much as 45 degrees or more from the intended target to offset the incoming spin. And this is after the ball has bounced on the table.
Having not had much time to hit with the grippier paddles today, I don’t see anything in professional pickleball which indicates to me that spin can become a way to overwhelm an opponent. I think that is an attribute which has contributed to the game’s success. People can play the game because the ball is predictable. Allowing high spin takes that away and almost ensures that a beginner will quickly run into someone who can curve the ball in such a way that it is unplayable. I think this is little different than the outlawing of those serves where the ball is heavily spun on the toss.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
I tested the MOD TA-15 against the Perseus 3 yesterday, and I noticed on my serve, using the radar gun to measure the speed, the Perseus 3 is consistently 4 miles faster than the MOD TA-15. This is based on the 20 serves each from the MOD TA-15 and Perseus 3.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
My Apollo spin is rated at the top at 2300 (remember that’s by a paddle reviewer’s arm, often an arm with no tennis background… so take that fwiw).
My topspin technique is better than the reviewers I follow that measure spin (one reviewer in Canada with seriously better technique, but he doesn’t measure spin other than opinion). So for sake of argument, let’s say I hit that 2300 rpm. IMO, just throwing a number out there, I don’t think 3000 rpm breaks the game. I think it improves it. Maybe trying it out, 2500 rpm becomes the number, or 2800 rpm … but definitely higher imo from here. Many of the pros have a similar view, we are there on power, but let’s increase the spin. As long as we have these plastic balls, those underarm serves below the waist/navel will be returned by higher level players as long as power isn’t increased from here. I have fallen off the bandwagon of keeping game neutered to the point grandma, grandson, and D1 guy can all play together. That has never been true … maybe a foam nerf ball would have been closer.
FYI … current plastic balls are never going to create a “heavy” ball like we think of in tennis. And on the “unpredictable” thing … keep playing … these crap plastic balls crack and go out of round … unpredictable party every time.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Doesn’t it crack you up to hear 50 mph vs 55 mph coming from the tennis world of 100+ mph? It does me.
In doubles pb, I found out the power paddles were a bit of fools gold. At better levels, very few aces, almost all serves being returned … so control and kitchen game much more important. I beat some players with my $90 control Vatic Prism Flash that I had not beaten with power Vatic Pro V7. At rec level pb doubles, many players would do themselves a favor to avoid the extended power paddles. I had to send the Vatic Oni back … and I come from tennis. Just sayin.bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
That extra 4/5 miles in serve makes a big difference in single PB. Probably not as much in double PB.Doesn’t it crack you up to hear 50 mph vs 55 mph coming from the tennis world of 100+ mph? It does me.
vex
Legend
Do NOT do this.... WTF you're telling people to buy a recalled/banned paddle....
vex
Legend
The MPH doesn't translate like that because the Server/Returner distance is much smaller in PB. The fundamentals of the return are way different as well. In PB the serve is bouncing MUCH closer to you than it does in tennis and many courts don't have the space to back up anywhere near what you can in tennis.Doesn’t it crack you up to hear 50 mph vs 55 mph coming from the tennis world of 100+ mph? It does me.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
Yes, I am telling people to buy this banned paddle because it is so good. the USAP is a complete joke that nobody takes it seriously.
Just so you know, there are many paddles on the market that are NOT approved by the USAP. For example, the Joola MOD TA-15 is NOT approved by USAP; however, it is approved by UPA-A. The same with the Perseus 3S. Most PB players don't really care much for DUPR events. The USAP that approves paddles for DUPR events is a complete joke. It banned the Perseus 3 but allows the Gearbox pro. 99.99% of the officials at DUPR events don't know these things. Just saying...
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
JOOLA Perseus MOD TA-15 Pickleball Paddle | Pickleball Warehouse
www.pickleballwarehouse.com
I think USAP has been too slow in many areas, but you want any rec paddle regulation ending up with them, rather than the big pickle monied entities.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
As I've said before, USAP is a complete joke. It is the same organization the initially approved all the Gen 3 paddles then later on decertified/delisted them. Nobody knows whether the TA-15 or Perseus 3S will be approved by the USAP. USAP might decertified the Gearbox Pro soon. No one should take this organization seriously. Furthermore, most DUPR event officials don't understand it anyway. I can take a Perseus Gen 3 paddle to any DUPR events and the official will approve it because all they see on the paddle is "USA Pickleball Approved" sign on there, unless some spectators who are aware of the Gen 3 (the sound comes of the paddle is different) tell the officials.JOOLA Perseus MOD TA-15 Pickleball Paddle | Pickleball Warehouse
I think USAP has been too slow in many areas, but you want any rec paddle regulation ending up with them, rather than the big pickle monied entities.
My personal opinion is to purchase the paddle that you're most comfortable with, regardless of USAP approval.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I’m confused … which is my usual state
… but didn’t I just give you a link with a picture of a TA-15 with the USAP stamp at the throat?optic yellow
Legend
The officials might not but I'm pretty aure every salty opponent knows about this paddle because of how much press the USAP bait and switch has got them.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
No you're not confusedI’m confused … which is my usual state
. It is the USAPA that is confused. Yes, the TA-15 is currently approves USAPA approved at the moment. You just don't know if/when it got decertified/delisted by the same USAPA, LOL....Here is the picture of my Joola Perseus 3 with the USAPA stamp, LOL....:
optic yellow
Legend
bro u gave ben johns money buying this paddle, where is your self-respectNo you're not confused
Here is the picture of my Joola Perseus 3 with the USAPA stamp, LOL....:
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
Which paddle should I buy?
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I liked this … lol
As I repeat constantly, I will never pay anyone $200+ for a paddle, instead I buy 10 $130 paddles a year.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
I am curious. Let say you're a 5.0 PB player, and you have to play another 5.0 player. Let say your opponent uses the TA-15 paddle, and you use a $30 paddle. Who do you think will win the match?I liked this … lol
As I repeat constantly, I will never pay anyone $200+ for a paddle, instead I buy 10 $130 paddles a year.
optic yellow
Legend
Literally any paddle that does not involve giving Ben Johns money.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
Why don't you like Ben Johns?
Are you also aware that by purchasing other paddles, I am also giving PB players other than Ben Johns money? So, what's the difference?
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
LOL... Investing is also one of my hobbies too. I am sure other PPA players also invest, right?
optic yellow
Legend
Who says it is a hobby?
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
this is what you posted: His hobbies include traveling, reading, weightlifting, investing,
optic yellow
Legend
Who means "what kind of person"
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Settled out-of-court!
optic yellow
Legend
weak I wanted protracted dramaSettled out-of-court!
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Losers on-board!
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Augie Ge is an up and coming pro that plays with a $90 Vatic Pro Prism control paddle. He probably knows what he is doing … made 800 on SAT.
You have bought into the expensive paddle shill …
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
He is 28 years old and ranked 21st. He couldn't beat Quang Duong who is 18 years old with that $90 Vatic Pro paddle, LOL.....
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Quang Duong got beat 11-0, 11-0 a couple of weeks ago. Maybe he could have used that Prism that match.
