Coria could have challenged Nadal on clay

[BreakPoint]

I just watched the incredibe 5-plus hour, 5 set, 2005 Rome Masters final between Nadal and Coria on Tennis Channel for the first time and I had forgotten what a tremendous clay court player Coria was. I think Coria could have posed a major challenge to Nadal on clay over the past few years had he not gone apoplectic after losing the 2004 French Open final that he should have easily won. What would have happened had Coria won that French Open final (he won the first two sets easily and was up in the 3rd set) in 2004? Would he have gained enough confidence to have challenged Nadal at the French in '05 and '06? Would Nadal have won four French Opens in a row had Coria not disappeared into thin air? Very interesting questions to ponder as Coria was without doubt a major threat on clay until his major diappointment at the 2004 French.

 

[VamosRafa]

^^^^ I don't think so, and that's because Coria does not have the champion's mentality which Rafa has. That was displayed in that FO final. Even if Coria had won that final, I don't believe he would have had the mental fortitude to challenge Rafa as Rafa improved, even if he had the game to do so (which I don't think he had either). He was a very good claycourt player for a time, but he didn't have the tools to become great.

 

[vbranis]

100% agree with the OP, it would have been VERY interesting to see Coria in the Nadal/Fed mix on clay. It's a shame he lost that RG final, he deserved to win more than Gaudio.

I think the final blow came when he lost that '05 Rome final to Nadal, he never recovered after that. If he would've at least won that match, his confidence would have returned, but to lose 2 matches like that within a year...

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Coria would get owned by Nadal. Nadal destroyed Coria in 2006 in MC. The worst beating Nadal ever gave there. lol

 

[iamke55]

Could not have happened. Coria's level of play on clay was about as good as Federer's, minus the mental strength, so we would see him beat Nadal maybe once on a non-French clay. You can't expect a guy who choked big time against Gaudio to challenge a world #1 who lives on clay. Nadal's mental strength, in comparison, is the kind few players will ever experience. Nadal has it, Borg had it, Federer had it, Sampras had it, guys like Agassi and McEnroe were close but did not have it.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

Coria would get owned by Nadal. Nadal destroyed Coria in 2006 in MC. The worst beating Nadal ever gave there. lol

you are losing your skills. 2 replys before you... man. are you tired or have mono?

 

[Cenc]

you are losing your skills. 2 replys before you... man. are you tired or have mono?

haha well done man!!!


but still my vote went to no. imo nadal is better than coria but i could count several players who would be a challenge for nadal

 

[Nadal_Freak]

haha well done man!!!


but still my vote went to no. imo nadal is better than coria but i could count several players who would be a challenge for nadal

Yes on hardcourts or grass. Nadal is almost unbeatable on clay. It takes an injury of fatigue to beat him.

 

[orangettecoleman]

You can't expect a guy who choked big time against Gaudio to challenge a world #1 who lives on clay.

Says it all right there.

 

[BreakPoint]

Coria would get owned by Nadal. Nadal destroyed Coria in 2006 in MC. The worst beating Nadal ever gave there. lol

If you actually read my OP, you would have seen that the beginning of the end for Coria was losing the French Open final in 2004 which he should have won. He never fully recovered from that devastating loss. The loss to Nadal in that 5-plus hour, 5 set Rome final in 2005 was the final nail in the coffin for him.

Yes, we know, you think Nadal would dominant God even with both hands tied behind his back. :roll:

 

[Cenc]

Yes on hardcourts or grass. Nadal is almost unbeatable on clay. It takes an injury of fatigue to beat him.

or some claycourter from 90s
like guga, moya, muster, bruguera, berasategui,... few others
i would like to see roland garros with them all
imo greatest game ever played in roland garros was gugas game from 97 and moyas game from 98
but since i believe u havent watched any match from then, i cant help you. for u nadal is the best

 

[Nadal_Freak]

If you actually read my OP, you would have seen that the beginning of the end for Coria was losing the French Open final in 2004 which he should have won. He never fully recovered from that devastating loss. The loss to Nadal in that 5-plus hour, 5 set Rome final in 2005 was the final nail in the coffin for him.

Yes, we know, you think Nadal would dominant God even with both hands tied behind his back. :roll:

Coria's body could not handle the punishment. Now that is a taxing style of player. Nadal's style is much less grueling than Coria's. Nadal had the strength to handle the punishment as well. Coria's shoulder surgery was the beginning of the end.

 

[BreakPoint]

Yes on hardcourts or grass. Nadal is almost unbeatable on clay. It takes an injury of fatigue to beat him.

One name: Igor Andreev

And, no, Nadal was not injured when he lost to Ferrero this year in Rome. Blisters are NOT an injury. EVERY pro plays with blisters. Have you ever see Federer's feet? Ferrero just plain out-played Nadal. He finally figured out how to beat Nadal on clay.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

One name: Igor Andreev

And, no, Nadal was not injured when he lost to Ferrero this year in Rome. Blisters are NOT an injury. EVERY pro plays with blisters. Have you ever see Federer's feet? Ferrero just plain out-played Nadal. He finally figured out how to beat Nadal on clay.

There are different levels on how bad a blister can be. Nadal got an extremely bad blister and that was Nadal's 3rd straight tournament as he won 2 straight tournaments. He was also thinking about Hamburg he had to play next week. The best solution was go out early so he could beat Djokovic and Fed the next week.

 

[BreakPoint]

There are different levels on how bad a blister can be. Nadal got an extremely bad blister and that was Nadal's 3rd straight tournament as he won 2 straight tournaments. He was also thinking about Hamburg he had to play next week. The best solution was go out early so he could beat Djokovic and Fed the next week.

Sure, so he lost on purpose because he didn't want to beat Djokovic and Federer in Rome as they were both still in the draw. :roll:

 

[!Tym]

or some claycourter from 90s
like guga, moya, muster, bruguera, berasategui,... few others
i would like to see roland garros with them all
imo greatest game ever played in roland garros was gugas game from 97 and moyas game from 98
but since i believe u havent watched any match from then, i cant help you. for u nadal is the best

Bruguera's form in the 93 semis against Medvedev or Guga's form in the 97 finals against Bruguera or Muster's form when he squashed Kafelnikov like a little bug (or at least that's how Kafelnikov said he made him feel) in the French semis, etc. all would have been interesting to see.

The point is that it's possible if the past clay greats got in the zone they could beat Nadal, but come on, Nadal is in peak form ALL the time it seems. He has like one off day every two years it seems on clay. Take the Ferrero match, that was an off day. Ferrero played great. That's what it takes to beat Nadal on clay. Is it impossible? By NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION. Believe it or not, Nadal is human otherwise he would be winning every match he plays love, love, and love, but that simply doesn't happen. If you can put up games against a player, they CAN and WILL be beaten eventually. This isn't like the #1 junior in the nation deciding to play a little bit of high school tennis for fun and smoking everyone 6-0, love, and love with his eyes closed and smoking pot on the side during changeovers.

The thing is Nadal has off days sooooooo infrequently, that while players can occasionally challenge him, there changes of actually getting over the hump with him are VERY few and far in between. What's more, Nadal unlike most other top players plays to win ALL the time, whereas many other top players we've seen in the past play to win when the feeling suits if you know what I mean.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Sure, so he lost on purpose because he didn't want to beat Djokovic and Federer in Rome as they were both still in the draw. :roll:

He wanted to win his first Hamburg shield. He already won Rome 3 times. No way he could win Hamburg playing all the way to Sunday in Rome. He needed a few days off.

 

[Deleted member 21996]

He wanted to win his first Hamburg shield. He already won Rome 3 times. No way he could win Hamburg playing all the way to Sunday in Rome. He needed a few days off.

Hey Xisca: i have a doubt :

he was tired? i thought i read somewhere here you said it was blisters?

 

[Zaragoza]

1-Nadal wasn´t in his prime in 2005.
2-Coria couldn´t beat Gaudio in the RG final when he was in his prime.
3-Puerta in 2005 was the toughest opponent Nadal has faced in a RG final and would have given Federer many problems as well.
4-Nadal is the best player on clay since Borg.

 

[TheTruth]

1-Nadal wasn´t in his prime in 2005.
2-Coria couldn´t beat Gaudio in the RG final when he was in his prime.
3-Puerta in 2005 was the toughest opponent Nadal has faced in a RG final and would have given Federer many problems as well.
4-Nadal is the best player on clay since Borg.

Perfect summation!

 

[CAM178]

Nadal would dominate Coria. Clay is 40% ability, 60% mental. Coria had the ability, but when push came to shove, he didn't have the mental fortitude to survive the deciding points. Rafa lives for points like that. Whereas Rafa can't wait for a chance to avenge a loss, Coria crumbled from his biggest defeat.

It's like I was telling someone recently: Rafa plays mental games on the court, but not the kind that most of us think of. Sometimes you can see him get bored in a match, and if I didn't know better, I'd say that sometimes he purposely gets down in a game or set, just for the fun of the mental challenge to win the game or set.

I think Nadal would own Borg on clay. He's just more of a dominant physical force out there than was Borg. Borg was a frightening physical specimen, but Nadal is otherworldly.

Nadal is the best on clay, I think, but I still think that Vilas deserves the winningest clay record, as all of Vilas' wins during his unbeaten stretch came during one season, versus Nadal's during multiple seasons.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

didn't Coria have an injury during the 2004 RG final?

 

[Alexandros]

Nadal is the best on clay, I think, but I still think that Vilas deserves the winningest clay record, as all of Vilas' wins during his unbeaten stretch came during one season, versus Nadal's during multiple seasons.

Doesn't it speak more to Nadal's greatness that he has consistently dominated across multiple seasons as opposed to having one hot season?

 

[fastdunn]

I remember him as the best mover on tennis. He glided on the courts like a melting iceberg on glass table.

Could he have been challenging Nadal ? Probably not. IMHO, he could have been challenging Federer for #2 spot on clay.

Nadal is absolutely the best clay courter I've ever seen. Only players whom I would consider as a worthy challenger to Nadal, would be Bruguera (and maybe Kuerten, during last 20 years of my tennis following... )

 

[Thor]

2005 Nadal was nowhere near the level of 2008 Nadal that DESTROYED the field at RG,and even then Coria could not win.

Nadal would win in straights

 

[marpiw]

I think that Coria has no relationship with Nadal...I think that he is half-retired in the last years and does not play in most of the tournaments...Two years ago (approximately) I saw an interview in the Argentine TV in which he said he lost all motivation to continue playing tennis...what a loss!!!!!!!!!!!





----------------------------
Allez Alize!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wyutani]

Coria can beat nadal even now...

 

[marpiw]

In the moon ....perhaps ...but not here on Earth....please no cheap science fiction please....

Coria can beat nadal even now...

------------------------------
Allez Alize!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Turning Pro]

I think if Coria has won the FO 04 and maybe the Rome 05 Final then he would have won the FO 05 and probably would have beat Fed on the RG clay that year. If Coria didn't go AWOL or have a mental breakdown he would have easily be a threat in the Fed/Nadal mix for at least 05/06.

(No one in any era could have beat Nadal in the 08 French)

 

[wyutani]

nah, i find tthe title ridiculous. unless coria gets over his injury or his double faults, maybe he can beat nadal...

in only a set.

I blame RG 2004 for this.

I blame Gaudio too.

If coria won, he would be no.1 and Gaudio will suck like he is today.

But Gaudio won, so we have two sucky players instead.

No wonder fed was no.1 for soooo long.

Nah, i blame gaudio.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Hey Xisca: i have a doubt :

he was tired? i thought i read somewhere here you said it was blisters?

You can't be both?

 

[BreakPoint]

2-Coria couldn´t beat Gaudio in the RG final when he was in his prime.

There's a big difference between "couldn't" and "didn't". "Could" Coria have beaten Gaudio in the '04 French final? Of course he could! He destoyed Gaudio in the first two sets and was on the verge of winning in straight sets! Can you spell C-H-O-K-E? It was the biggest match of his life and his first time in a Grand Slam final. He evetually would have gotten used to playing big matches and be much less likely to choke again in the future.

 

[Andyk028]

One name: Igor Andreev

And, no, Nadal was not injured when he lost to Ferrero this year in Rome. Blisters are NOT an injury. EVERY pro plays with blisters. Have you ever see Federer's feet? Ferrero just plain out-played Nadal. He finally figured out how to beat Nadal on clay.

No and No.

Andreev couldnt touch Nadal on clay now or ever again....2005 in Valencia was Nadal's worst year on clay.

It is extremely difficult to play with blisters on your hands..especially with Nadals western grip. Add in Ferrero's clay court experience and of course you'll have the upset.

 

[BreakPoint]

No and No.

Andreev couldnt touch Nadal on clay now or ever again....2005 in Valencia was Nadal's worst year on clay.

It is extremely difficult to play with blisters on your hands..especially with Nadals western grip. Add in Ferrero's clay court experience and of course you'll have the upset.

The blisters were not on Nadal's hands. :-?

 

[tacou]

If Coria had mental strength he'd be able to challenge anyone on clay, but that's the biggest IF in tennis.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

no. Nadal was 18 and still beat Coria at his best. Nadal's game has improved in leaps and bounds since then. Unless I saw evidence that Corias game had improved in leaps and bounds since those days theres no reason to believe that Coria would challenge Nadal 07 or Nadal 08 on clay.

Corias best chance v Nadal on clay was the only match he won v Nadal in 03 when Nadal was 16 years old.

 

[CyBorg]

Nadal has no competition. But it's not his fault that this is the worst clay court era in the history of the sport.

 

[Nadal_Monfils]

no. Nadal was 18 and still beat Coria at his best. Nadal's game has improved in leaps and bounds since then. Unless I saw evidence that Corias game had improved in leaps and bounds since those days theres no reason to believe that Coria would challenge Nadal 07 or Nadal 08 on clay.

Corias best chance v Nadal on clay was the only match he won v Nadal in 03 when Nadal was 16 years old.

Agreed. I watched a bit of this match as well and I was amazed at how much Nadal has improved his backhand. In this match he basically just got his backhand in, but now it is a legitimate weapon.

 

[Rickson]

Coria was one of the best on clay, but he definitely had a huge mental breakdown against Gaudio in 04. Coria could have made some impact, but his constant injuries crushed his hopes of winning the French.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Nadal has no competition. But it's not his fault that this is the worst clay court era in the history of the sport.

No competition because Nadal has brought clay court tennis to another level that no one can match. He is the ideal clay court player for those who want to succeed in the future.

 

[CyBorg]

No competition because Nadal has brought clay court tennis to another level that no one can match.

Not really. His opposition just sucks.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Not really. His opposition just sucks.

Yeah I guess the opposition keeps getting worse every year. Why am I wasting my time arguing with you?

 

[Deleted member 25923]

Yeah I guess the opposition keeps getting worse every year. Why am I wasting my time arguing with you?

You're not really wasting your own time, you're wasting everyone else's time.

 

[CyBorg]

You're not really wasting your own time, you're wasting everyone else's time.

He's trying really hard to convince himself of many things and that takes time.

 

[CyBorg]

Yeah I guess the opposition keeps getting worse every year. Why am I wasting my time arguing with you?

Ok, let me know when a successful clay court specialist emerges and not just another all-courter who can't wait for the summer to come.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

You're not really wasting your own time, you're wasting everyone else's time.

Cyborg is just trying to use the weak era to dwindle Nadal's achievements. Every era has it's tough parts. This era has Nadal facing Fed and Djokovic. Not clay courters but clay has been sped up to help the all surface players anyways. Nadal does a great job handling the pace that Muster used to struggle with. The Borg era is too hard to compare as everyone hit in slow motion. Too bad Borg couldn't play now as I don't think he could adjust to the speed of the game.

 

[CyBorg]

Genuine clay court specialists in Borg's era:
- Guillermo Vilas
- Raul Ramirez
- Manuel Orantes
- Jose Luis Clerc
- Harold Solomon
- Ivan Lendl
- Corrado Barazzutti
- Victor Pecci
- Jose Higueras
- Yannick Noah
- Adriano Panatta

Clay court specialists in Nadal's era
- Tommy Robredo

In other words, Nadal's competition on clay is embarrassing.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Genuine clay court specialists in Borg's era:
- Guillermo Vilas
- Raul Ramirez
- Manuel Orantes
- Jose Luis Clerc
- Harold Solomon
- Ivan Lendl
- Corrado Barazzutti
- Victor Pecci
- Jose Higueras
- Yannick Noah
- Adriano Panatta

Clay court specialists in Nadal's era
- Tommy Robredo

In other words, Nadal's competition on clay is embarrassing.

All courters are the way to go as the courts are getting too fast for a clay courter that lacks on other surfaces. You need power on clay now and that should transfer on other surfaces. Robredo and Davydenko have had some success on hardcourts. Therefore, the best players are also the biggest threats on clay except for a few one-dimensional players (Blake, Roddick, and etc)

 

[CyBorg]

All courters are the way to go as the courts are getting too fast for a clay courter that lacks on other surfaces. You need power on clay now and that should transfer on other surfaces. Robredo and Davydenko have had some success on hardcourts. Therefore, the best players are also the biggest threats on clay except for a few one-dimensional players (Blake, Roddick, and etc)

Should I list all the competition that Kuerten had too?

 

[Breaker]

Cyborg is just trying to use the weak era to dwindle Nadal's achievements. Every era has it's tough parts. This era has Nadal facing Fed and Djokovic. Not clay courters but clay has been sped up to help the all surface players anyways. Nadal does a great job handling the pace that Muster used to struggle with. The Borg era is too hard to compare as everyone hit in slow motion. Too bad Borg couldn't play now as I don't think he could adjust to the speed of the game.

So let me get this straight...

Aussie Open has been sped up the last two years.
All clay courts have been sped up recently...(?)
Grass has NOT slowed down.
US Open courts are fast, but still slower than Wimbledon even though players say otherwise.
Masters Cup is unfair (too fast) and doesn't matter.

Just getting your stories in order there.