Correct way to throw a ball

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stumpgrinder

New User
Question about the release part of a normal throw. When I throw a tennis ball as practice I notice it has backspin most of the time and rolls off my fingertips, possibly because of the exaggerated upward angle throw or palm opening too much. Is this back spin because of the light weight of the tennis ball in comparison to a baseball or should the fingers actually propel the ball flat and not spin it?

As I understand it a football spirals from pronation, so does a tennis ball throw spin for the same reason? Or should the aim of my practice throw be more of a flat throw?
 
Throwing a roudn ball and throwing an oblong ball are slightly different.
A normal round ball throw (tennis or baseball), the ball is gonna roll backwards off your finger tips (no pronation).
In a foot ball, there is pronation (ie. turn the thumb down) to get the spiral going.

On a round ball throw there are ways to throw with no spin, side spin, topspin, etc... but that's a separate conversation...
 
Got any old racquets? Go out to the park and throw those at a steep upward angle instead. Much better than throwing a ball to simulate the service motion. It feels quite different. With a racquet throw it is much easier incorporate the proper forearm and shoulder rotations (and wrist actions).

EDIT: Note that the wrist action for throwing a ball will be different than the wrist action for the serve. For throwing a tennis ball or a baseball, you might be more inclined to use a straight layback (wrist extension). The wrist action for throwing a football will be different than this. The wrist c0ck for a tennis serve is a combination of radial deviation with some wrist extension. The wrist moves to a neutral position at contact. Does not need to flex afterward (nor should it to any significant degree).

r409.jpg
 
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What kind of pitch DO you want to throw?
A fastball is backspin.
A knuckle ball is barely forward spinning, or not at all, or with just a bit of side and any spin.
A curve ball is normally upper left to lower right spin, for a rightie.
None mimick the serving action, at least not a flat first serve motion. I doubt if any mimick any serving motion, which is why you need a racket.
 
stumpgrinder said:
Question about the release part of a normal throw. When I throw a tennis ball as practice I notice it has backspin most of the time and rolls off my fingertips, possibly because of the exaggerated upward angle throw or palm opening too much. Is this back spin because of the light weight of the tennis ball in comparison to a baseball or should the fingers actually propel the ball flat and not spin it?

As I understand it a football spirals from pronation, so does a tennis ball throw spin for the same reason? Or should the aim of my practice throw be more of a flat throw?
Click to expand...
One of the reasons that throwing a football is better.
 
There are 3 distinct ways to hold the ball in your tossing hand. Palm up, ball on finger tips; Ice cream cone; or palm down, ball in fingers. I would experiment to see which one gives you the most consistent toss for height and position. 2 cents.
 
esgee48 said:
There are 3 distinct ways to hold the ball in your tossing hand. Palm up, ball on finger tips; Ice cream cone; or palm down, ball in fingers. I would experiment to see which one gives you the most consistent toss for height and position. 2 cents.
Click to expand...

This is for the underhand ball toss with the non-racket arm. Pretty sure that the OP is talking about overhand throwing actions with the dominant (racket) arm.
 
Hmmm... you may be right! If that is indeed what he is asking, my answer is practice hitting your and 'exaggerated' normal service motion from baseline to the other baseline. Forces hitting up, pronation, everything needed to have a good serve. Then start dialing the serve in to make the ball spin into the service box. Throwing a football or a baseball involves too much wrist moving towards the target. It will give you the feel for the throwing motion towards a target, but throwing a racquet up and forward is a totally different motion. 2 cents.
 
Thanks for the help guys, I am definitely talking about pitching a tennis ball and is not a question of tossing arm. Was more just a quest to understand a football spiral vs a pitch, and how the light weight of a tennis ball affects the throw compares to the others. Weird question sure, but the more I understand the way these things should feel or work, the more progress I am making on my serve motion in search of that effortless power.
 
According to the Serve Doctor video, throwing a tennis ball upwards "should feel exactly like the serve".

Also notice that she has her fingers spread across. Don't know if there is any significance to that finger position

The forearm will move from a supinated position towards a pronated position in the tennis ball throw, so there is pronation. In terms of pronation, I am not seeing much difference between the tennis ball throw and football throw at the moment of release. The forearm looks to be at a similar ~90 degree pronated position at the moment of release in both cases.

I am not convinced that the football throw is necessarily superior. The Serve Doctor seems to think the tennis ball throw replicates it very well. I suspect he would be using a football if it was a better drill.


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forearm-supination-pronation-hand.jpg
 
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In a tennis serve the rapidly changing forearm to racket angle produces a significant component of racket head speed from forceful ISR. The elbow angle becomes near straight a short time before impact, see high speed videos.

For the football throw or ball throw - without a racket - the rapidly changing elbow angle produces a significant component of football or tennis ball speed from forceful ISR.

The video frame of Dougherty's student throwing the tennis ball up shows a double exposure where the rapidly moving forearm appears separated. High speed video is necessary to properly study the rapid motion of ISR but the girl's double exposed frame happened to catch the very rapidly changing elbow angle. (Double exposures may result from interlaced video recording or other artifact. If interlaced video, the time between exposures would be 17 milliseconds, a reasonable time for that forearm movement.)

The video below is excellent but the forward motion of the hand & football produced by ISR is toward the camera and appears slower than it would from the side view. The final ISR after release may be simply a follow through or have some purpose, spin?, at release.

The function of the ISR for the tennis serve appears to be well simulated by the girl's throw. For the football pass....?

I don't know how football or tennis ball release relates to a tennis serve.

Throwing Tennis Rackets. I think that you can throw a tennis racket with ISR or as you would a tomahawk, end over end. I still have questions about simulating ISR unless it is verified by high speed video that the racket throwing involves ISR. For something to be a worthwhile serve training technique it does not have to simulate ISR. But what the training technique is doing should be explained.
 
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Pitch from side view. Search
Drew Storen pitching mechanics in Slow Motion 1000 Youtube

I'd interpret this pitching video to indicate that there is a similarity between the rapidly changing elbow angle of the pitch and the rapidly changing forearm-racket angle of the serve. The pitch uses the forearm to develop hand/ball speed from internal shoulder rotation, the serve uses the racket to develop racket head speed from internal shoulder rotation. To develop speed from rotation there has to be some distance between the moving object and the axis of rotation.
 
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