Correcting Line Calls

Traffic

Hall of Fame
So I've played a few matches recently where my (2 different) partners would be on the baseline and the they would call a ball out. From my view near the net, I thought it hit the line. And from the body language of our opponents, they felt the same way as me. But I didn't have the best vantage point so I have to go with my partner's call.

This happened a few more times.
Then there was a call on a serve that looked like it could have nicked the line and my partner called it wide. Partner was receiving, I was standing next to the service box. Yes, it looked wide enough, but also close enough. I probably would have played it. But again, my partner's vantage point was just as good if not better than mine.

Now, if I was at baseline and my partner called the ball out and I clearly saw it in, I would say something. But since I'm not at the best vantage point, I have to trust my partner.

But how do I communicate to my partner that I thought those balls looked close enough to keep playing? I don't want to call them out in the middle of a game and get our rhythm all messed up. But after the match is over, it does feel like it's water under the bridge. My thought is that if we parnter up again, I might make mention of my observation and that I want to treat our opponents like I want to be treated. If I have a great shot or even a lucky shot that somehow paints the line, I would love that call.

The 2nd piece to this is that our opponents called a few close balls out. And I have to believe at least one of those calls was because they didn't get a close call in their favor and my partner got upset about it. I was thinking, "really, you call the line so tight and then get upset when our opponents do the same?"
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
If you aren't sure, you should give deference to your partner. If he isn't sure either, you should give the benefit of the doubt to the opponent. Both partners need not be certain.
Where it becomes difficult is if you are certain the ball was in and your partner was certain it was out. I have in those cases given the point to the opponents (who almost always agreed with me and were thankful I had the integrity to overrule my partner). Sure you may get a dirty look from your partner, but that rarely lasts long, in my experience.

And never expect a ball that's on the outside of the line to be called in. Just don't. You'll die a much happier man.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
whenever i have a discrepancy in the calls... lets say i clearly see the ball IN, but my partner calls it out... (and i'm in the best vantage point), i just ask my partner to concede the point.
i don't think there's an "in between" where you can correct the call while the point is live.
even if someone accidently calls the ball out... oops, i meant good, the point goes to the other side (happens to me on serves occasionally)
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Over this past weekend, I played too many matches in heat that was unbearable. I swear my eyesight and mind began to slip late in the day.

On my 3rd match of the first day (4pm with temps over 107) I made an out call on a serve ... my partner instantly overruled it and conceded point to them. I really had thought it was long, but he laughed and said I was seeing things ... no problem. And no, I didn't argue whatsoever.

On 3rd match of 2nd day, ... my ROS, my mouth said out before my brain registered it as in (this server had been hitting long all match) ... I immediately overruled my own call, conceded point.

I think in general most people try to call lines in good faith. If I make a bad call, please overrule me.

That being said ... if I am on the Ad side and the ball and my partner is on deuce side ... my vantage point is no good and I would not overrule based on that. Same if I am up by net/service line and partner calls a ball out at baseline ... their better sight-line: their call.

Did have one odd moment in a match from the weekend. My partner is playing a deep ball from the baseline (I am not looking at him... I am at service line) point goes on, we win the point on my volley after another 3 or so shots. Happy happy. After the point, opposing male complains that it should be their point because he thought I had put my index finger up on partner's baseline shot therefore I was calling it out ... bizarre. His partner shut him down.

I try to be generous with line calls ... it has to be really fully out. I try not to let the tightness of the opponent's line calls to influence me ... but I am certain it does to some extent subconsciously.
 
If you're sure, and would stake cutting off your little finger on it, then over-rule your blurry-eyed partner--unless, you are SURE your opponents have been hooking you too. You wouldn't be posting here if you weren't honest--cheaters don't bother posting--generally. Work on improving your vision--the eyes have muscles too, and with exercise vision can be improved--every other aspect of tennis is improved with better vision--like they say, watch the ball--be the ball.

Having the gumption to overrule a partner on bad calls takes courage of character--and if you have absolute conviction in how you saw it, you will have no qualms about it or second thoughts. You don't want to be playing with a partner who is a cheater. By being fair you will have two new potential partners to play with, your opponents who will remember your integrity.
 
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Vic Braden mentioned that after some studies were done (I think involving about 40ish people standing around a court) that most people tend to call balls out that are actually 4 inches in. I hope I'm not getting that horribly wrong. Pretty sure the gist was that the ball will slide up to an inch to an inch and a half before the bounce, and that our eyes can't detect that.

I try to always be careful to take that into consideration. I've also been surprised at the number of people that will call a ball out when they have the worst possible angle. It sort of blows my mind.
 

CdnUmp

New User
even if someone accidently calls the ball out... oops, i meant good, the point goes to the other side (happens to me on serves occasionally)

Interesting. In the Tennis Canada rulebook and also Tennis Australia from what I can tell, if a player makes an "out" call and then immediately corrects themselves, it's treated as an involuntary hindrance unless it was a winner. We'd play a let the first time it happens in a match and then concede the point any subsequent times.

USTA doesn't follow the same:
12.
Out calls reversed.
A player who calls a ball out shall reverse the call if the player becomes uncertain or realizes that the ball was good. The point goes to theopponent and is not replayed. However, when a receiver reverses a fault call on a serve that hit the net, the server is entitled to two serves.

As for the OP:

14.
Partners’ disagreement on calls.
If one partner calls the ball out and the other partner sees the ball good, the ball is good. It is more important to give opponents the benefit of the doubt than to avoid possibly hurting a partner’s feelings. The tactful way to achieve the desired result is to tell a partner quietly of the mistake and then let the partner concede the point. If a call is changed from out to good, the principles of Code § 12 apply

http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/2. The Code.4.pdf
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
OP seems to have a partner who calls the lines tight. I would not overrule either unless I was sure my partner was wrong, which means I have to be in an equally good or better vantage point. If I thought they might not be giving benefit of the doubt, I would instead remark on it at the time to my partner: Boy, that was close! or Yikes, I was thinking you were going to call that one in.

That said, I have had recent experiences where partners who are receiving seem annoyed when I don't call the middle or sideline on receive of serve. Hey, if it is so close that they can't call it out from their superior vantage point, I am not going to be able to call it out either. My partners find this annoying.
 

Taveren

Professional
99% out and 1% in is still 100% in, thats how m and my partner call the lines and we are both happy with it.

Unless Im 100% sure I will give the benefit of the call to the opponent
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
OP seems to have a partner who calls the lines tight. I would not overrule either unless I was sure my partner was wrong, which means I have to be in an equally good or better vantage point. If I thought they might not be giving benefit of the doubt, I would instead remark on it at the time to my partner: Boy, that was close! or Yikes, I was thinking you were going to call that one in.

That said, I have had recent experiences where partners who are receiving seem annoyed when I don't call the middle or sideline on receive of serve. Hey, if it is so close that they can't call it out from their superior vantage point, I am not going to be able to call it out either. My partners find this annoying.
I do try to be fair. I also try to trust my partner if they have the better vantage point.

With a different partner that tends to have very generous calls, we had a dissagreement on a call for an ROS. My partner was ROS and I was slightly behind the service line. The ball bounced out. I called it out. She over-ruled me saying that she thought it was good. I told her that I had the better vantage point. In any case, we dissagreed on the call and gave the point to the opponent. But we later agreed that I had the better vantage point and that she should have trusted my call. We even discussed the fact that we've always called the lines fairly and there should not have been a doubt about lines called out.

If I am partnered with the same partner in OP, I will share my thoughts about calling lines tight. That we should really play those balls that seem very close unless we are absolutely certain. During the match, I felt it was unfair of me to try to overturn her call when I did not have the best vantage point and the ball was not obviously in or obviously out.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Vic Braden mentioned that after some studies were done (I think involving about 40ish people standing around a court) that most people tend to call balls out that are actually 4 inches in. I hope I'm not getting that horribly wrong. Pretty sure the gist was that the ball will slide up to an inch to an inch and a half before the bounce, and that our eyes can't detect that.

I try to always be careful to take that into consideration. I've also been surprised at the number of people that will call a ball out when they have the worst possible angle. It sort of blows my mind.

I think it was 2" and he pointed out that the ball can roll 2" after it has bounced and our eyes can't granularly catch everything so we might take a snapshot at the end of the roll, where it looks out, vs at the beginning, when it looks in.

That's why the Hawkeye reconstruction shows the ball impact being fairly round on a lob but elliptical on a serve [massively different trajectories and speeds].
 

Steady Eddy

Legend
I think it was 2" and he pointed out that the ball can roll 2" after it has bounced and our eyes can't granularly catch everything so we might take a snapshot at the end of the roll, where it looks out, vs at the beginning, when it looks in.

That's why the Hawkeye reconstruction shows the ball impact being fairly round on a lob but elliptical on a serve [massively different trajectories and speeds].
Not on my serve!
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I think it was 2" and he pointed out that the ball can roll 2" after it has bounced and our eyes can't granularly catch everything so we might take a snapshot at the end of the roll, where it looks out, vs at the beginning, when it looks in.

That's why the Hawkeye reconstruction shows the ball impact being fairly round on a lob but elliptical on a serve [massively different trajectories and speeds].

That's happened to me once. I was at the baseline and the ball was coming in flat. It bounced near the baseline and I saw it come off the court at least 2" past the baseline and called it out. My partner and the opponents net guy over-ruled it. They both saw it hit the line. At that point I realized it must have skidded before coming up off the court and gave them the point. But i was convinced visually it was out. Eyes can play tricks in those situations.
 

TagUrIt

Hall of Fame
I ALWAYS defer to the "Hawkeye System" :D

Like most have said, I'll only over-rule my partner if I'm 100% certain about the call. Some people call the lines a lot closer than others. I'm a firm believer in Tennis Ball Karma, you make a bad call on purpose, it will come back around.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I only counter my partner is I see something clearly in, otherwise their call stands for both of us. I expect the same on my calls.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
I had a singles match on clay. serving at 4-4, 40-0, my cross FH hits left sideline near opponents deuce service box. My opponent gets to the ball and hits his FH shot out up the line. About 2 seconds later he calls my shot out and says it's one of 2 spots that's out. I conceded the point but it stuck in my head and I lost two more points and eventually my service game and set. I'd never allow that on a hard court but this was clay.
Since it was a late call and he was unsure of the mark, should that point have been replayed? I don't know the exact rules on clay so I let it go but it bothered me.
 

Connor35

Semi-Pro
I had a singles match on clay. serving at 4-4, 40-0, my cross FH hits left sideline near opponents deuce service box. My opponent gets to the ball and hits his FH shot out up the line. About 2 seconds later he calls my shot out and says it's one of 2 spots that's out. I conceded the point but it stuck in my head and I lost two more points and eventually my service game and set. I'd never allow that on a hard court but this was clay.
Since it was a late call and he was unsure of the mark, should that point have been replayed? I don't know the exact rules on clay so I let it go but it bothered me.

That's a tough one. Ive definitely had shots on clay I called in -- giving the benefit of the doubt -- then it takes a second to process that "there's the mark, and it's out."

If it's definitely one of the two out marks, your shot was out and a late call is ok.
 

TagUrIt

Hall of Fame
My opponent gets to the ball and hits his FH shot out up the line. About 2 seconds later he calls my shot out and says it's one of 2 spots that's out.
So your opponent calls your shot out after his shot goes out? I respect my opponents and when they make a call, however I would NOT have conceded that point. Clay or hard courts that call needs to be made quickly and with certainty, not after your opponent misses their shot.
 

Matthew ATX

Semi-Pro
I will only override my partner if I'm in the better position to see the ball and I think they called it wrong. I don't play with cheaters, so if they have the better view, I trust their judgement.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
So your opponent calls your shot out after his shot goes out? I respect my opponents and when they make a call, however I would NOT have conceded that point. Clay or hard courts that call needs to be made quickly and with certainty, not after your opponent misses their shot.
Yeah, I won't let that happen again. It was a 2 hour match and I got tired and didnt want to waste any energy on a 505-0 line call. His out call was about 2 seconds after he missed his shot and looked at the mark. Since I had nice baseline calls from him throughout the match I gave it to him. My serve is good enough where 40-15 should still be my game but clay takes away some juice.
 

penpal

Semi-Pro
Has anyone played at a facility that has purchased and uses the In/Out line call devices? It seems the developer is marketing these hard to clubs, but I have no idea what the uptake has been (if any).
 
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