Cost of Development for Junior?

tennisjunky

Rookie
Hello Tennis Experts!!!

I’m new to this forum but not tennis and could really use some of your insights as fuel for a family question that has recently come up.

I have a niece that is 14, she has been playing for several years now and really seems to enjoy herself. She has been heavily involved a lot in tennis camps and tournaments for several years now.

But recently in a conversation with her mother (my sister), she said it is time to cut their losses and will be pulling her out of competitive tennis this year. I have to admit I was a little surprised.
When asked why because she always seemed to really be having a good time and seemed to be driven; she said it was costing too much: money, time and overall effort for something that has turned into a recreational hobby.

I didn’t pursue the issue to much afterward as I'm no expert, but its really bothered me as I’d always thought her path was to a university tennis team. Unsure if this was possible but she has talked about this often. Stopping mid-way through a sport just didn’t seem right (to me); considering all the time, effort and expenses already utilized.

Later our mother informed me they had already spent about >$50,000 on: training, tournaments, leagues and camps since she was 8 years old!

And they just didn’t want to spend another $50k for the next 4-5 years. She’ll still play tennis, but just on the local school team with no more: camps, tournaments, clinics, etc.

I have to admit, I only played for about 7 years in junior and high school and only went to a few camps, so the expense never seemed to be a problem. But, I never thought that tennis in these development years cost so much!!!

I’m still floored!!

Anyway, my question is, is this a realistic cost for junior development (as my sister is saying)? $5k-$7k per year from (roughly 8-10 years)?????
Or do kids develop in the schools teams (as I did)? Of course that might answer my question as I never thought of myself as a strong player, ha ha.
Just looking for some good thoughts to maybe keep the competitive side of tennis going for her, rather than going down the recreational side.

Thanks for your comments.
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
Hello Tennis Experts!!!

I’m new to this forum but not tennis and could really use some of your insights as fuel for a family question that has recently come up.

I have a niece that is 14, she has been playing for several years now and really seems to enjoy herself. She has been heavily involved a lot in tennis camps and tournaments for several years now.

But recently in a conversation with her mother (my sister), she said it is time to cut their losses and will be pulling her out of competitive tennis this year. I have to admit I was a little surprised.
When asked why because she always seemed to really be having a good time and seemed to be driven; she said it was costing too much: money, time and overall effort for something that has turned into a recreational hobby.

I didn’t pursue the issue to much afterward as I'm no expert, but its really bothered me as I’d always thought her path was to a university tennis team. Unsure if this was possible but she has talked about this often. Stopping mid-way through a sport just didn’t seem right (to me); considering all the time, effort and expenses already utilized.

Later our mother informed me they had already spent about >$50,000 on: training, tournaments, leagues and camps since she was 8 years old!

And they just didn’t want to spend another $50k for the next 4-5 years. She’ll still play tennis, but just on the local school team with no more: camps, tournaments, clinics, etc.

I have to admit, I only played for about 7 years in junior and high school and only went to a few camps, so the expense never seemed to be a problem. But, I never thought that tennis in these development years cost so much!!!

I’m still floored!!

Anyway, my question is, is this a realistic cost for junior development (as my sister is saying)? $5k-$7k per year from (roughly 8-10 years)?????
Or do kids develop in the schools teams (as I did)? Of course that might answer my question as I never thought of myself as a strong player, ha ha.
Just looking for some good thoughts to maybe keep the competitive side of tennis going for her, rather than going down the recreational side.

Thanks for your comments.
My friend's parents were like her mom, honestly very sad because they all just ended up getting killed by the players like me who's mom was fine with spending the money.

They lost love for the sport and quit after 2 years while I got accepted to top liberal arts schools for premed as an athletic recruit(gives you advantage in admissions) and now play college tennis.

I will never make money from tennis but the experience and character growth is more valuable that the 50k it cost.
 

CHillTennis

Hall of Fame
My friend's parents were like her mom, honestly very sad because they all just ended up getting killed by the players like me who's mom was fine with spending the money.

They lost love for the sport and quit after 2 years while I got accepted to top liberal arts schools for premed as an athletic recruit(gives you advantage in admissions) and now play college tennis.

I will never make money from tennis but the experience and character growth is more valuable that the 50k it cost.

I have to agree with that. I first picked up a racquet when I was 10 years old and haven't been able to put it down since.

I love the game and what it can do for people. Honestly, it changed my life for the better in every way possible.

Never once have I questioned my decision to invest money in my game. I would take a new racquet or entry into a tournament any day over an Xbox. :)
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
I have to agree with that. I first picked up a racquet when I was 10 years old and haven't been able to put it down since.

I love the game and what it can do for people. Honestly, it changed my life for the better in every way possible.

Never once have I questioned my decision to invest money in my game. I would take a new racquet or entry into a tournament any day over an Xbox. :)
Parents who consider tennis a waste of money don't value their children over them.

I don't see how my friends parents can rationalize just quitting on them like that, I will do anything for my future kids success.

7k a year is very little for the valuable life lessons I learned through tennis.

I learned how to use sheer will to win, under cramps, pulled hamstring(or groin), under 100 degree heat in the summer, Those matches aren't fun, they're war and they suck. But getting through them showed me how strong I could be.

But I also had to learn how to persevere through the toughest times(24 match losing streak over 12 months) and to believe in myself and not quit when it got tough.

I also learned to accept that even with all my effort sometimes it wasn't good enough and that I had to be proud of my fight even if I had not won.

Those life lessons are what will get me through my premed path, every time classes get harder I know I can step up my intensity and work through it, meanwhile I've seen many students cry and breakdown in the middle of tests.

The mental toughness needed to do what I'm doing is crazy, and I owe mine to tennis, and my mom for supporting me through it all and not letting me give up on myself even when I thought there was nothing left for me to do.
 

tennisjunky

Rookie
I think it is about the money, 12 years time an average of about 7k (more in later years) = about $84k.
They are comparing that to the price of a degree. In Texas on average of about $40k- $50k.
So in their mind they are actually saving money or at least breaking even.
 

Koby1

New User
You don't necessarily need to spend tons of money to develop a junior for college tennis. And unless shes trying for a scholarship she doesn't need to play tournaments to play college tennis. Walking on is always an option. As a two star tennis recruiting senior my parents have not spent more that 2,000 dollars on tennis in one year. This year they have not spent more on tennis than just my equipment costs and the occasional tournament. See its not the spending that matters the most its the willingness to find a way to play and making connections. I'll hit with people at least 2-3 times a week. Using youtube and watching tennis help me learn. I'll also help out the local pro to score me clinics when I desire. I also join in on some college and high school practices here in there. If she truly loves the sport and the competition she needs to be taking the initiative herself. Clinics and programs force you to keep playing but anyone motivated enough shouldn't have to be forced. Its not about the money, the only thing the parents absolutely need to do is provide rides if necessary.
 

CHillTennis

Hall of Fame
Parents who consider tennis a waste of money don't value their children over them.

I don't see how my friends parents can rationalize just quitting on them like that, I will do anything for my future kids success.

7k a year is very little for the valuable life lessons I learned through tennis.

I learned how to use sheer will to win, under cramps, pulled hamstring(or groin), under 100 degree heat in the summer, Those matches aren't fun, they're war and they suck. But getting through them showed me how strong I could be.

But I also had to learn how to persevere through the toughest times(24 match losing streak over 12 months) and to believe in myself and not quit when it got tough.

I also learned to accept that even with all my effort sometimes it wasn't good enough and that I had to be proud of my fight even if I had not won.

Those life lessons are what will get me through my premed path, every time classes get harder I know I can step up my intensity and work through it, meanwhile I've seen many students cry and breakdown in the middle of tests.

The mental toughness needed to do what I'm doing is crazy, and I owe mine to tennis, and my mom for supporting me through it all and not letting me give up on myself even when I thought there was nothing left for me to do.

Great story. I know what you mean about playing injured. I won a match once (against a much weaker opponent) when I could barely move. My back literally locked up after the third game and I had to gut it out.

It feels amazing when you're able to come through in a situation like that.

There is so much to be said for never giving up.

I think it is about the money, 12 years time an average of about 7k (more in later years) = about $84k.
They are comparing that to the price of a degree. In Texas on average of about $40k- $50k.
So in their mind they are actually saving money or at least breaking even.

I realize that a lot of parents are looking at the scholarship potential that tennis can provide their children. But when their main reason for playing the game is the scholarship then they aren't going to have the level of passion needed to succeed.

Maybe some can but a lot of those kids burn out at 12-14 years old.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to make the scholarship your main goal.

Although her situation may be entirely different from the one that I'm describing.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Tennis is an expensive sport, and parent spend more $ on tennis in some sections of the country than others. If you live in a small USTA section with a few states, you might be able to get a USTA sectional ranking just by playing a handful of tournaments. In our section, there are close to 3000 ranked sectional players in each age and gender group. Players often play 15-25+ tournaments because there is so much competition, and players have to play up 6 months to a year ahead just to be able to get in tournaments when they do age up. Now USTA lets players carry over 20% of their best 6 younger age tournaments to the older age so players dont have to play so many tournaments in two age groups. The costs grow exponentially as players age. Players may be content to play locally 8-12 but will start wanting to play sectional and then national tournaments or ITFs as they get older-esp for 16-18s. If a player wants to be seen by a college coach, the player needs to play the top nationals, and to get into those, a player has to play and do well at a lot of sectional tournaments, though some coaches of colleges in that region may attend some high level sectional events too. In our state, there is one D1 coach that does seem to recruit some high school players who did not play a lot of tournaments but who were good at dubs.

To be honest, $7K would barely cover drills for most players, and travel is just as big of an expense or more. For those who want to play D1 college, the low end seems to be $15K a year, and many parents spend $30K+

However, there are ways to do it cheaper once a player is in high school. If a player is on a competitive high school team, she can get matches that way, and if she is a talented player, she could ask tournament players to hit on off weekends or possible find a junior ladder to play on. There are open ITA summer circuit tournaments in the summer. Of course there are entry and travel fees for those, but unlike the USTA, there are not prerequisite tournaments to play or points to earn to be able to play open tourneys. I know a few players who are playing D1 tennis who probably played 6 or less UsTA tournaments a year but were top high school players in their state. They lived in states where there were individual state champions not just teams, and those players either won or placed very high in their state tournament. Our state does not have individual high school champs and I have never seen a college coach at the HS state team championships even though many teams had 4 star players on the teams.

Your niece as a girl has a lot more opportunities than boys for scholarships. There are a lot of male players whose parents invested $100K+, and they only received low $ or a preferred walk on spot on a D1 team.
 

NoChance

Rookie
I do agree that by the time your child tennis prodigy is in line for D-1 money (and with the men, rarely full-ride), you have already spent that kind of money, if not more.

And, that's OK if you can do it financially, and the child wants to commit to it.

If not, well, there are plenty of opportunities to play tennis at the collegiate level, at a school that suits one's academic ambitions.

And, as J-tennismom said above, there are more opportunities for women. Most D-1 programs are such where none of the male players have a full ride, but all of the women do. Better opportunities for the women at the D-2 and 3 levels, too. I coached HS tennis for quite a while. More of the girls than guys ended up playing in college.

Plus, playing college tennis at the lower levels is still a lot of fun, and allows one to focus on studies, without some of the pressures that come into play at higher levels.
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
Parents who consider tennis a waste of money don't value their children over them.

I don't see how my friends parents can rationalize just quitting on them like that, I will do anything for my future kids success.

7k a year is very little for the valuable life lessons I learned through tennis.

I don't see it so black and white. IMO, tennis is neither the only path nor the most efficient path to a child's development.

As a kid I really enjoyed and learned a lot from a variety of activies: painting classes, learning to play a musical instrument, going to camps and retreats, going on family vacations, traveling internationally, working part-time jobs to help pay for things I wanted (including tennis), etc. If it were me and I was on a tighter budget, I'd pick these activities over just tennis.
 

Herb

Semi-Pro
I can answer based on my point of view paying for a daughter playing tennis. My daughter plays varsity tennis at school, USTA tournaments, and some small open and ITF events. She has no plans as of now to play for college although she has been contacted by a couple of DIII schools. She is a Junior in HS and knows where she wants to go to school (DI) and what her degree plan will be. We pay $6000 per year just for private lessons and clinics, we average about $400 per month for travel to tournaments, Last summer we spent $3500 on camps, plus another $1500- $2000 per year in string, racquets, shoes, etc. If I didn't string there would be another $40-$60 a month for stringing plus higher string cost.

We know a 5 star rated girl in California who has received several school offers, to include our local school with a top 10 team. To get her to her level her dad has told me he spends close to $75000 per year for academies, travel (she plays several overseas ITF events), etc. She has a Solinco Sponsorship and I think Nike.

I string for one of the top local juniors and they are paying right at $5000 a year with me just for string and stringing.

tennis isn't cheap if you want your kids to be competitive.
 

tennisdad99

New User
Herb is exactly right. My son (a high school senior) just signed with a mid-major DI. He started playing at 7-8 yrs old with just Junior Development for about $200 a month. When he started playing tournaments at 9 we had to step it up so he would be competitive. Better JD and private lessons ($500-$600 a month) and some tournament travel. By the time he was 12, he was playing 20 tournaments a year. We stayed within a days drive distance, but with hotels, travel expense, and entry fee, it probably averaged about $500 a tournament. When you factor in racquets, clothes, and shoes, along with one college campus camp a year, we were easily paying $20,000 a year, just trying to keep up with the academy kids, who spend more and have a much greater advantage. As he got older he went through at least 4 racquets a year, 2 racquets a week stringing, an we were lucky if a pair of shoes lasted the month, with most shoes not lasting 2 weeks. If he had not played tennis he would be looking at going to a public college in-state on a full ride academic scholarship. Now he's going up to the North East, playing at a better academic private school with about 70% of costs paid through academic and athletic scholarships. So we will still be paying because of tennis. But he is getting an experience and education that we hope will be priceless. We wouldn't change a thing.
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
I don't see it so black and white. IMO, tennis is neither the only path nor the most efficient path to a child's development.

As a kid I really enjoyed and learned a lot from a variety of activies: painting classes, learning to play a musical instrument, going to camps and retreats, going on family vacations, traveling internationally, working part-time jobs to help pay for things I wanted (including tennis), etc. If it were me and I was on a tighter budget, I'd pick these activities over just tennis.
I mean, yeah you can learn from other things but tennis players get extremely valuable skills from the game.

No timeouts no coaches on court no teammates to rely on(doubles isn't at every tournament I am talking about singles) and only yourself to blame for a loss

Clearly the kids parents are capable of paying as they have for 7 years, but if they stop how it's just wasting that time and money spent, if the kid truly has a passion.

But I am not talking about just enjoyment, a kid can enjoy an Xbox but it will do nothing as far as character building.

I'm talking about the competition and the learning to overcome stress, pain and many other factors to learn about how you can will yourself to success.

Tennis as a competitive sport is more than enjoyment, it's life lessons and self esteem building.

I think playing any sport competitively brings these things out but tennis has to be one of the most intense for it since it's completely individual
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Herb is exactly right. My son (a high school senior) just signed with a mid-major DI. .. We stayed within a days drive distance, but with hotels, travel expense, and entry fee, it probably averaged about $500 a tournament. When you factor in racquets, clothes, and shoes, along with one college campus camp a year,(not sure about this-see below) we were easily paying $20,000 a year, just trying to keep up with the academy kids, who spend more and have a much greater advantage.... But he is getting an experience and education that we hope will be priceless. We wouldn't change a thing.

Congrats to your son. I assume he signed in the fall or just recently verbally committed and will sign in April. My son was fall D1 signee. We too tried to have son play tourneys within 6 hour driving distance with a few exceptions for national 1s and 2s late soph through sr year. You state you spend $20k/year trying to keep up with academy kids who spend a lot more. Some do, but some academy kids spend $20K or less for drills and travel. I am talking nonboarding academies, but top academies that have coaches who played at the ATP level or coached those who did as well as high performance juniors. Our son skips the private lessons and instead has attended academies with low ratios-4 to 6 per pro so players get personal attention and coaching without the privates. As players reach the 4 star and up level, they often qualify for discount packages on strings, racquets, etc.

I would also comment that playing a college camp may be fun, but it may not do much for one's playing level. Parents may expect if they sent their player to a college camp at a Power school, that current players will be asst coaches, and if they play really well, they will get to hit with guys on the team. The guys on the team are playing Futures during the summer, and some of the counselors/coaches at those big name camps are guys who play on the club campus team. That is fine for middle school and below, but readers skip those college camps if your player is over 13. Instead find a post grad struggling Circuit player who would probably be happy to hit with your teenager for $20-$30 an hour a couple times a week between Futures. Get a UTR membership and look for local recent grads this summer. Bet your teenager can find them on Instagram. Playing a college showcase is a better idea than attending a college camp.
______________________________________________________________________
If anyone is looking for an academy, do a search for a post by PsychoTennisDad probably 9 months ago or more. He had a comprehensive list of what to look for in an academy. If expenses are keeping a talented player from attending a local academy, find out the rates, tell the academy what you can pay, and pay for those days,e.g. maybe 2-3 half days at an academy where many kids are full time homeschooled. If your players ends up being one of the top players at the academy, the coaches may come back and say that you can attend 5 half days for the same rate; that happened to my son twice. Your player does not have to be fulltime homeschooled; many players attend high school for 4 classes, take 2 online, graduate with a normal diploma, and get to drills by 1 or 1:30pm, and for many their results are as good or better than the kids attending 6 hours a day. To be a 4 star +, 10-12 hours of quality drills or matchplay a week is adequate if there are tournaments or scheduled matchplay 1-2x a month on weekends (need conditioning too either at or outside academy). You dont have to practice 20 hours a week. If you are in an area with several high level academies, look for academies where maybe a lot of players just graduated. If the academy needs boys or girls, you might get a discounted rate. Even some of the large academies may have set discounts at different levels for 4 star, 5 star, and blue chip. Also to save money, dont play nationals (unless they are in your home section) until your player is playing 16s. Players dont have to play nationals from 12 on to get in 16s and 18s nationals. There are kids that were blue chips as freshmen who are not even top 100 as seniors and kids that were barely top 200 as freshmen who are top 50 as juniors and seniors. Save your $ for big tourneys from 2nd semester soph year through fall of senior year.
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
THANKS.......jcgatennismom, tennisdad99 and Herb.
You guys provided some great REAL LIFE information from people that are actually flipping the bill.
To be fair i mentioned how it has real world value as acceptance into schools. You can get into many prestigious schools by setting yourself apart as a college tennis recruit. 2star+ girls can go to schools like kenyon, macalaster, haverford, etc while without it they would simply be another app for admissions.

I got 75% scholarship at my school from financial aid and it ended up being cheaper than UT Austin by 10k.

D3 -schools are very generous with aid and can have very high academics. I ended up at one and my mom is saving back the 40k she spent on me these last couple of years.
 

tennisjunky

Rookie
Ihatetennis....... you are right, you gave excellent advice as well. And I deeply apologize for not recognizing your quality advice. Ha Ha :D

Now the task moves to finding colleges that actually... in a meaningful way look at local talent. This will be the difficult task.
I do know her mom talked with a smaller D2 school and the tennis coach flat out said they don't seriously look a US players. She said she was sorry to say this but it was a numbers game. The school simply said it is just too easy to find loads of quality international players. The coach also said recruiting agencies and clubs from around the world contact them all year shopping their students around. Sad to say, but its hard to stand out in an avalanche of foreign talent. They said for ever 1 person from the US she has 30 from another country.

I believe the big issue with her mom is that they are spending a lot of money of a HOPE that she gets a scholarship. The money spent on tennis could easily pay for a degree.
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
Ihatetennis....... you are right, you gave excellent advice as well. And I deeply apologize for not recognizing your quality advice. Ha Ha :D

Now the task moves to finding colleges that actually... in a meaningful way look at local talent. This will be the difficult task.
I do know her mom talked with a smaller D2 school and the tennis coach flat out said they don't seriously look a US players. She said she was sorry to say this but it was a numbers game. The school simply said it is just too easy to find loads of quality international players. The coach also said recruiting agencies and clubs from around the world contact them all year shopping their students around. Sad to say, but its hard to stand out in an avalanche of foreign talent. They said for ever 1 person from the US she has 30 from another country.

I believe the big issue with her mom is that they are spending a lot of money of a HOPE that she gets a scholarship. The money spent on tennis could easily pay for a degree.
Public school degree yes, but is she able to standout in other ways at private schools?

Athletic factor is the easiest way to get into lacs, especially if she is a white female from a middle class family(the largest number of applicants come from this demographic)

If she wants to go to a state school my advice won't matter but if she wants to go to an Amherst, occidental college, kenyon, Connecticut college or any of the other prestigious lacs then she should at least continue contributing enough to keep her competitive enough to compete at those schools. It's also a great asset as some schools provide free tutors for student athletes and in majors like biochem and cs it is very helpful.
 

SouthernCourts

Semi-Pro
Parents who consider tennis a waste of money don't value their children over them.

I don't see how my friends parents can rationalize just quitting on them like that, I will do anything for my future kids success.

7k a year is very little for the valuable life lessons I learned through tennis.

I usually HATE this word because it's so over-used and often whiny, but this post is the definition of privilege, and it's quite ugly. If you have the money to spend, great, but saying that "7k a year is very little" is being blind to the economic realities of most Americans. Ditto for saying that someone who won't spend a lot of money on their kids for tennis doesn't "value" the children. Some people simply can't make that sacrifice.

The fact is, depending on individual circumstances, it can actually be a great lesson to move on from a particular dream. Imagine a family that isn't super wealthy, with a son or daughter who loves tennis, but realistically won't get a college scholarship. Or, who knows, maybe they haven't shown the work ethic necessary to reach that level. This is life, and continuing to throw money at your kids only spoils them, and imparts the lesson that they can have whatever they want regardless of cost. It also blinds them to life's realities, and could end up hurting them in later pursuits when they meet real adversity.

I think it's great that your parents had the resources to invest in you, and that you committed the time and effort necessary to make it in college. But that is not the reality for many people. And while it's great that the lessons of tennis have helped you excel in other fields, I have a feeling that you will someday meet some great, hard-working, brilliant doctors who somehow managed to learn how to succeed in life without the lessons learned on a tennis court.
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
I usually HATE this word because it's so over-used and often whiny, but this post is the definition of privilege, and it's quite ugly. If you have the money to spend, great, but saying that "7k a year is very little" is being blind to the economic realities of most Americans. Ditto for saying that someone who won't spend a lot of money on their kids for tennis doesn't "value" the children. Some people simply can't make that sacrifice.

The fact is, depending on individual circumstances, it can actually be a great lesson to move on from a particular dream. Imagine a family that isn't super wealthy, with a son or daughter who loves tennis, but realistically won't get a college scholarship. Or, who knows, maybe they haven't shown the work ethic necessary to reach that level. This is life, and continuing to throw money at your kids only spoils them, and imparts the lesson that they can have whatever they want regardless of cost. It also blinds them to life's realities, and could end up hurting them in later pursuits when they meet real adversity.

I think it's great that your parents had the resources to invest in you, and that you committed the time and effort necessary to make it in college. But that is not the reality for many people. And while it's great that the lessons of tennis have helped you excel in other fields, I have a feeling that you will someday meet some great, hard-working, brilliant doctors who somehow managed to learn how to succeed in life without the lessons learned on a tennis court.
My point was that if a parent has the money to spend and the kid is still willing to compete that it sucks for the kid because the competition can provide a lot more to them that other things can't. My friends parents were able to provide for them but decided it wasn't worth their time. They are all at big name state schools paying more money for their education than I am, at lesser academic schools because they were impeded because their parents thought highschool tennis was enough. All of them lost the passion for tennis and all of them quit before high school was over.

The way op made the situation out to be was the same of the friends that I had. Your odds of a scholarship for tennis are low, but tennis can do things money can't buy. There are only so many tennis players out there, fewer girls than guys and more college teams for girls than guys.

If you are a 3 star female recruit with a decent gpa 3.6+ you have the potential to go to very strong schools on the athletic factor helping you get in.

Schools like tufts, colby, amherst, williams, pomona, pitzer, etc

As a normal student getting into highly selective schools is impossible without perfect scores grades and extracaricullars. As an athletic recruit you have a significantly better chance at getting into these schools with median application scores.

7k a year in high school to go to amherst or williams is nothing compared to the value of getting into a school like that.
 

atatu

Legend
My point was that if a parent has the money to spend and the kid is still willing to compete that it sucks for the kid because the competition can provide a lot more to them that other things can't. My friends parents were able to provide for them but decided it wasn't worth their time. They are all at big name state schools paying more money for their education than I am, at lesser academic schools because they were impeded because their parents thought highschool tennis was enough. All of them lost the passion for tennis and all of them quit before high school was over.

The way op made the situation out to be was the same of the friends that I had. Your odds of a scholarship for tennis are low, but tennis can do things money can't buy. There are only so many tennis players out there, fewer girls than guys and more college teams for girls than guys.

If you are a 3 star female recruit with a decent gpa 3.6+ you have the potential to go to very strong schools on the athletic factor helping you get in.

Schools like tufts, colby, amherst, williams, pomona, pitzer, etc

As a normal student getting into highly selective schools is impossible without perfect scores grades and extracaricullars. As an athletic recruit you have a significantly better chance at getting into these schools with median application scores.

7k a year in high school to go to amherst or williams is nothing compared to the value of getting into a school like that.

Hey how are you enjoying Earlham ? Did you survive the winter ok ? My son is a HS junior (superchamp) and I'm kind of concerned about him going to a D3 school in the ******* where it snows constantly.
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
Hey how are you enjoying Earlham ? Did you survive the winter ok ? My son is a HS junior (superchamp) and I'm kind of concerned about him going to a D3 school in the ******* where it snows constantly.
SOOOOOO cold, but the snow was sooo much fun the first few times.

I reccomend snow pants, scarves, ear muffs, bean boots with gortex insulation and wool socks. A down jacket for insulation and a shell to go over it.

That was what I used most, corduroy pants are also nice because theyre warmer than slacks and feel like sweats.

My hair did freeze outside though, but the season is going really well..


As long as you got the items above you should be fine.
 

chrisb

Professional
I think it is about the money, 12 years time an average of about 7k (more in later years) = about $84k.
They are comparing that to the price of a degree. In Texas on average of about $40k- $50k.
So in their mind they are actually saving money or at least breaking even.
If they get one. Mens tennis is being killed in colleges by cutting schollys and bringing in Euros who go for free without the need of a scholly. It is killing mens tennis in this country
 

tennisjunky

Rookie
Thanks chrisb,
You have summed all this up one easy sentence.
Only thing I'd add is that men's collegiate tennis isn't killing tennis....... its already 99% dead already.
 

Doubles

Legend
SOOOOOO cold, but the snow was sooo much fun the first few times.

I reccomend snow pants, scarves, ear muffs, bean boots with gortex insulation and wool socks. A down jacket for insulation and a shell to go over it.

That was what I used most, corduroy pants are also nice because theyre warmer than slacks and feel like sweats.

My hair did freeze outside though, but the season is going really well..


As long as you got the items above you should be fine.
LOL I live in the MW and walk to class in shorts and flip flops on days when I'm not teaching. Just goes to show how people that have lived here all their lives handle the cold differently.
 

Doubles

Legend
Ihatetennis....... you are right, you gave excellent advice as well. And I deeply apologize for not recognizing your quality advice. Ha Ha :D

Now the task moves to finding colleges that actually... in a meaningful way look at local talent. This will be the difficult task.
I do know her mom talked with a smaller D2 school and the tennis coach flat out said they don't seriously look a US players. She said she was sorry to say this but it was a numbers game. The school simply said it is just too easy to find loads of quality international players. The coach also said recruiting agencies and clubs from around the world contact them all year shopping their students around. Sad to say, but its hard to stand out in an avalanche of foreign talent. They said for ever 1 person from the US she has 30 from another country.

I believe the big issue with her mom is that they are spending a lot of money of a HOPE that she gets a scholarship. The money spent on tennis could easily pay for a degree.
D2 seems to be an awkward situation because they're almost entirely teams composed of international students, and in my experience, they're no better than any mid major D1 in terms of academics, and certainly not better than any well known D3 schools.
 

chrisb

Professional
D2 seems to be an awkward situation because they're almost entirely teams composed of international students, and in my experience, they're no better than any mid major D1 in terms of academics, and certainly not better than any well known D3 schools.
Both of my kids went to top 5 liberal arts D3 colleges and got a superior education. Son was a D1 player had he chosen, made the right choice IMO
 

chrisb

Professional
Hello Tennis Experts!!!

I’m new to this forum but not tennis and could really use some of your insights as fuel for a family question that has recently come up.

I have a niece that is 14, she has been playing for several years now and really seems to enjoy herself. She has been heavily involved a lot in tennis camps and tournaments for several years now.

But recently in a conversation with her mother (my sister), she said it is time to cut their losses and will be pulling her out of competitive tennis this year. I have to admit I was a little surprised.
When asked why because she always seemed to really be having a good time and seemed to be driven; she said it was costing too much: money, time and overall effort for something that has turned into a recreational hobby.

I didn’t pursue the issue to much afterward as I'm no expert, but its really bothered me as I’d always thought her path was to a university tennis team. Unsure if this was possible but she has talked about this often. Stopping mid-way through a sport just didn’t seem right (to me); considering all the time, effort and expenses already utilized.

Later our mother informed me they had already spent about >$50,000 on: training, tournaments, leagues and camps since she was 8 years old!

And they just didn’t want to spend another $50k for the next 4-5 years. She’ll still play tennis, but just on the local school team with no more: camps, tournaments, clinics, etc.

I have to admit, I only played for about 7 years in junior and high school and only went to a few camps, so the expense never seemed to be a problem. But, I never thought that tennis in these development years cost so much!!!

I’m still floored!!

Anyway, my question is, is this a realistic cost for junior development (as my sister is saying)? $5k-$7k per year from (roughly 8-10 years)?????
Or do kids develop in the schools teams (as I did)? Of course that might answer my question as I never thought of myself as a strong player, ha ha.
Just looking for some good thoughts to maybe keep the competitive side of tennis going for her, rather than going down the recreational side.

Thanks for your comments.
No its not worth that much money. I coach kids that do not play indoors in winter, take one lesson per week and are very strong hs players. They are not in camps and money draining drill sessions. They play on local courts outdoors from April thru November with classmates. If a child wants to to continue indoors in winter they should either go for group lesson or a match play session deals. Lessons indoors that have more than 4 on a court are a waste of money. Same for match sessions. Best deal is if parent plays to observe lessons during outside session sessions and drills son or daughter themselves. I have had many kids over the years use that approach and have played very well
 

Doubles

Legend
Both of my kids went to top 5 liberal arts D3 colleges and got a superior education. Son was a D1 player had he chosen, made the right choice IMO
If I had children I would either send them to a D3 or a D1 as it seems that's where the best education/college environment exists.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Parents who consider tennis a waste of money don't value their children over them.

I don't see how my friends parents can rationalize just quitting on them like that, I will do anything for my future kids success.

7k a year is very little for the valuable life lessons I learned through tennis.

I learned how to use sheer will to win, under cramps, pulled hamstring(or groin), under 100 degree heat in the summer, Those matches aren't fun, they're war and they suck. But getting through them showed me how strong I could be.

But I also had to learn how to persevere through the toughest times(24 match losing streak over 12 months) and to believe in myself and not quit when it got tough.

I also learned to accept that even with all my effort sometimes it wasn't good enough and that I had to be proud of my fight even if I had not won.

Those life lessons are what will get me through my premed path, every time classes get harder I know I can step up my intensity and work through it, meanwhile I've seen many students cry and breakdown in the middle of tests.

The mental toughness needed to do what I'm doing is crazy, and I owe mine to tennis, and my mom for supporting me through it all and not letting me give up on myself even when I thought there was nothing left for me to do.
to be fair, not everyone has 7-10k of disposable income to spend every year (per kid).... perhaps their financial situation has changed (or they went into it with the wrong attitude - ie. scholarship, and maybe overextended themselves financially to try).

that said, there are creative ways to get better.
playing at the local courts - might even find a guy like me willing to give (free) pointers if i see they effort.
finding like minded folks to drill with.
video record and compare regularly.
work at a tennis club (in exchange for lessons, clinics).
experiment with internet coaches (craiglist, playyourcourt, mytennislessons, etc...) you'll find really good deals on coaches that don'thave the overhead of paying club fees (ie. 30-50$ vs. 60-100)
books
there is SOOOO much material on the web these days (that i struggled to find as i was learning), you don't need to take alot of lessons (though, a coach would acclerate/ease the process).

could be to, that the kids, weren't showing the drive to practice on their own... in which case i'd think the lessons were a waste as well.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
that said, there are creative ways to get better.
playing at the local courts - might even find a guy like me willing to give (free) pointers if i see they effort.
finding like minded folks to drill with..

What I hope to see in the future, that would bring costs down, is an expansion of UTR to adults and more adult/HS cross play. Already UTR is talking about adding high school matches to database-(I have mixed feelings about that if UTR limits matches to 30-hurts tournament players that play HS tennis to drop tourney wins to include wins vs lower HS players). For non tournament playing HS players, being added to UTR will give them their first exposure to coaches, probably D3. Once HS players have UTRs, possibly they could host 1-2 day tournaments on weekends and invite adults, giving the adults a chance to earn a UTR rating, an easy fundraiser for the team, and crossplay for both. Where we live, there are not many open courts on weekend in neighborhoods, parks, and clubs, but the high school tennis courts are locked and unused. A club style system like in France could possibly develop in areas with strong high school tennis teams. 4-8 high school teams could host tournaments for 1-2 days that mix adults and juniors and the following weekend, the top 2 finishers from each could play at one high school and repeat the following month. Schools could rotate, HS players could get matchplay experience without expense and travel of tournaments, adults who want more than doubles would have a place to play. There are 150,000 HS tennis players and only 4% of those play college (not sure the number for tennis on campus). There are a lot of those guys who put down their racquet when they attend college who wont sign up for adult league play after graduation but might be willing to play local high schoolers. There is a huge range in play for high school tennis from below 6 UTR to close to 13, maybe 13+ on CA/FL teams-there could be competition for adults from 3.5-5.0+

I wish it was easier for juniors to find adults to hit with. When my son was playing local tournaments and had a midmorning match but didnt want to warm up on site at 7am, he had a hard time finding a junior not playing the tournament willing to get up and hit at 8am. However, there were probably adults who would have been willing to hit, get in some exercise before their weekend chores or attending their kids' sports events.

The US tennis scene needs some tennis lovers/entreprenuers to make things happen cheaply and locally outside the USTA and ITF venues. UTR is willing to sanction local events. ITF is cutting out the Future 15Ks after 2018 so there will be a bunch of college grads looking for outlets to play.

thanks nytennisaddict for being willing to play with juniors. Hopefully a lot more of that will happen in the Future. Why are we letting the French have all the cheap fun?!!
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
What I hope to see in the future, that would bring costs down, is an expansion of UTR to adults and more adult/HS cross play. Already UTR is talking about adding high school matches to database-(I have mixed feelings about that if UTR limits matches to 30-hurts tournament players that play HS tennis to drop tourney wins to include wins vs lower HS players). For non tournament playing HS players, being added to UTR will give them their first exposure to coaches, probably D3. Once HS players have UTRs, possibly they could host 1-2 day tournaments on weekends and invite adults, giving the adults a chance to earn a UTR rating, an easy fundraiser for the team, and crossplay for both. Where we live, there are not many open courts on weekend in neighborhoods, parks, and clubs, but the high school tennis courts are locked and unused. A club style system like in France could possibly develop in areas with strong high school tennis teams. 4-8 high school teams could host tournaments for 1-2 days that mix adults and juniors and the following weekend, the top 2 finishers from each could play at one high school and repeat the following month. Schools could rotate, HS players could get matchplay experience without expense and travel of tournaments, adults who want more than doubles would have a place to play. There are 150,000 HS tennis players and only 4% of those play college (not sure the number for tennis on campus). There are a lot of those guys who put down their racquet when they attend college who wont sign up for adult league play after graduation but might be willing to play local high schoolers. There is a huge range in play for high school tennis from below 6 UTR to close to 13, maybe 13+ on CA/FL teams-there could be competition for adults from 3.5-5.0+

I wish it was easier for juniors to find adults to hit with. When my son was playing local tournaments and had a midmorning match but didnt want to warm up on site at 7am, he had a hard time finding a junior not playing the tournament willing to get up and hit at 8am. However, there were probably adults who would have been willing to hit, get in some exercise before their weekend chores or attending their kids' sports events.

The US tennis scene needs some tennis lovers/entreprenuers to make things happen cheaply and locally outside the USTA and ITF venues. UTR is willing to sanction local events. ITF is cutting out the Future 15Ks after 2018 so there will be a bunch of college grads looking for outlets to play.

thanks nytennisaddict for being willing to play with juniors. Hopefully a lot more of that will happen in the Future. Why are we letting the French have all the cheap fun?!!
not sure you even need UTR... i can tell if a kid can hit or not (but i do like the idea of UTR).
you honestly don't need a hitting partner for alot of drills.
to this day, at 4.5, i still hit servers AND self feed... ALOT... like every day i can't find someone to hit, i'll spend an hour doing this.
juniors just need to be shown how to do this, video themselves, compare to pros, tweak, rinse and repeat... my guess is that most don't want to go through the hassle (but i know some hungry kids, that do and will), instead they want the easiness of a coach providing everything for them (and guess what, you're gonna pay for it). that said, a good coach will accelerate this process.

one of these days, i'll video a self feeding video session...

the other day i played a match, and beat a friend, mainly with my DTL bh shot... and that was all because i literally just self fed myself that shot for 90m the day before.

since most juniors are like 3.5's, the self feeding will go a long way... by the time you get to 4.5+, you will need to spend some time hitting against pace... but in terms of beating the pushers in the 4.0 and lower levels, you can self feed pusher shots.
 

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
Hello Tennis Experts!!!

I’m new to this forum but not tennis and could really use some of your insights as fuel for a family question that has recently come up.

I have a niece that is 14, she has been playing for several years now and really seems to enjoy herself. She has been heavily involved a lot in tennis camps and tournaments for several years now.

But recently in a conversation with her mother (my sister), she said it is time to cut their losses and will be pulling her out of competitive tennis this year. I have to admit I was a little surprised.
When asked why because she always seemed to really be having a good time and seemed to be driven; she said it was costing too much: money, time and overall effort for something that has turned into a recreational hobby.

I didn’t pursue the issue to much afterward as I'm no expert, but its really bothered me as I’d always thought her path was to a university tennis team. Unsure if this was possible but she has talked about this often. Stopping mid-way through a sport just didn’t seem right (to me); considering all the time, effort and expenses already utilized.

Later our mother informed me they had already spent about >$50,000 on: training, tournaments, leagues and camps since she was 8 years old!

And they just didn’t want to spend another $50k for the next 4-5 years. She’ll still play tennis, but just on the local school team with no more: camps, tournaments, clinics, etc.

I have to admit, I only played for about 7 years in junior and high school and only went to a few camps, so the expense never seemed to be a problem. But, I never thought that tennis in these development years cost so much!!!

I’m still floored!!

Anyway, my question is, is this a realistic cost for junior development (as my sister is saying)? $5k-$7k per year from (roughly 8-10 years)?????
Or do kids develop in the schools teams (as I did)? Of course that might answer my question as I never thought of myself as a strong player, ha ha.
Just looking for some good thoughts to maybe keep the competitive side of tennis going for her, rather than going down the recreational side.

Thanks for your comments.

I have heard about kids who spend that much a year in lessons and training. I am not kidding. This one top junior spends more than that per year on lessons and he is younger. Its insane not only because of the money factor but because of the long term physical damage on his body. When they are 40 they will be broken down as much as a glue horse
 
Developing a competitive junior tennis player is an expensive proposition. There is no way around that fact.

HS tennis in most areas is not close to the level of competition needed for junior development. In the Pacific Northwest my middle son can almost make the varsity team and he probably has the skill level of a 3.0 – 3.5 USTA. If you were a competitive junior practicing with his team and 90% of the matches would be a complete waste of time.

Most people don’t realize how good competitive junior players are compared to adults. When my oldest kid was 13 he could beat any 5.0 player in town. By 14 we had to come up with creative drills so I could even give him a workout. (I am a 4.5)

Unless you live in SoCal or FL you have to travel extensively to matches and that is expensive. You have to have a coach who really knows what they are doing … a 4.5 dad will not work. You have to have a group of high level junior players to hit with on a regular basis. (4 or 5 days a week). You have to have equipment. A pair of tennis shoes lasts 4 or 5 weeks if you are lucky. A set of strings will last you 2 sessions.

My oldest son plays D1 for a ranked team so I went through this for the last 12 years. I don’t know exactly how much other families were spending but I can’t imagine less than 15k / year and most were 20k+. We spent 3 years in SoCal which one of the best spots for development and it is still expensive.
 

lstewart

Semi-Pro
Okay, I've got an old school grouchy 'old guy" take on junior tennis and the crazy amount parents spend. No way is all this money spent a good investment in the sense that most will see much return on it in college scholarships. I grew up in a small town with few tennis players and no pros. Those of us that played would stay at the courts playing with anyone because we loved it. It was a different time, with many more men's programs, but I went to a camp one week, two different times in my junior year for all my formal instruction, and still ended up having a successful NAIA college career. After college I was a teaching pro for a while. Back then I would give good juniors one or two hour lessons a week, and they were out there hitting with each other all the rest of the time. They probably paid for instruction for maybe 1 out of every 25 hours they were on the court. A couple of those kids played D-1. I played tournaments for many years at a high level, but was not longer a pro, and lost touch with junior tennis. A few years ago my son was a good athlete, was a starting QB on his junior high football team, but had a serious injury. He missed basketball season, and was in a brace for 3 months. We talked him into dropping football at that time for tennis, along with basketball. At that point I found out what junior tennis had become. The parents pay for coaching every second their kids are on a tennis court. The kids never go out and practice together... it is just scheduled junior academy workouts where a pro, or pros, are being paid for everything. A family friend had a son heavily involved at that point, and strongly suggested we sign our son up for all of it. It was only $1,000 a month, or something like that. I thought they were insane! Of course I was able to coach my son, and hit with him every day. He did go to a tennis camp for a week each summer, and he did take a few private lessons from others to get some fresh perspective. He trained with me, and he trained with my adult buddies, who were all good former college players. None of the other juniors would ever want to hit, cause they were trained to not practice without their coach watching them (and being paid). Now, I know, there are junior coaches reading this, and I understand they are just trying to make a living. But junior tennis is so pro managed and structured now, that you either spend all this money, or your kids are left out. My son played high school basketball and tennis though those years, working at both sports year round. He did not get as good as he might have if I spent that $40 grand of so for his high school academy training, but he played college D-2 with a partial tennis scholarship. The kid whose parents suggested all the expense was eventually sent to a tennis only academy in Texas to live and go to school. Who knows what his parents spent for his junior tennis career. He eventually played for a D3 school with no athletic scholarships. I practice at a club that runs a junior tennis academy. There are kids running around everywhere, paying pros to hit balls. Another family friend has a early high school daughter in the program. They pay a pro for every second she is doing anything. I'll go to the fitness center to lift, and they are paying a trainer to put her through exercise programs. On the court, always paying a pro to hit with her. I bet she has never hit with someone else that someone was not being paid to be there. Her mom's life is sitting around in the club at night waiting on her, after working all day. Anyway, I really don't like that tennis has come to this. Almost none of these juniors around here are still playing tennis at 25. They all got sick of it, burned out, and quit. My son played against lots of very talented area players, and now in their early 20's, not a one is ever seen on a tennis court. A kid can still enjoy tennis without spending all the money. Of course tournaments cost money, and some lessons are needed. But you can probably find good adult players who will hit with your kids once they are good enough to give the adult a workout.
 

chrisb

Professional
not sure you even need UTR... i can tell if a kid can hit or not (but i do like the idea of UTR).
you honestly don't need a hitting partner for alot of drills.
to this day, at 4.5, i still hit servers AND self feed... ALOT... like every day i can't find someone to hit, i'll spend an hour doing this.
juniors just need to be shown how to do this, video themselves, compare to pros, tweak, rinse and repeat... my guess is that most don't want to go through the hassle (but i know some hungry kids, that do and will), instead they want the easiness of a coach providing everything for them (and guess what, you're gonna pay for it). that said, a good coach will accelerate this process.

one of these days, i'll video a self feeding video session...

the other day i played a match, and beat a friend, mainly with my DTL bh shot... and that was all because i literally just self fed myself that shot for 90m the day before.

since most juniors are like 3.5's, the self feeding will go a long way... by the time you get to 4.5+, you will need to spend some time hitting against pace... but in terms of beating the pushers in the 4.0 and lower levels, you can self feed pusher shots.
And then there is the old wall
Okay, I've got an old school grouchy 'old guy" take on junior tennis and the crazy amount parents spend. No way is all this money spent a good investment in the sense that most will see much return on it in college scholarships. I grew up in a small town with few tennis players and no pros. Those of us that played would stay at the courts playing with anyone because we loved it. It was a different time, with many more men's programs, but I went to a camp one week, two different times in my junior year for all my formal instruction, and still ended up having a successful NAIA college career. After college I was a teaching pro for a while. Back then I would give good juniors one or two hour lessons a week, and they were out there hitting with each other all the rest of the time. They probably paid for instruction for maybe 1 out of every 25 hours they were on the court. A couple of those kids played D-1. I played tournaments for many years at a high level, but was not longer a pro, and lost touch with junior tennis. A few years ago my son was a good athlete, was a starting QB on his junior high football team, but had a serious injury. He missed basketball season, and was in a brace for 3 months. We talked him into dropping football at that time for tennis, along with basketball. At that point I found out what junior tennis had become. The parents pay for coaching every second their kids are on a tennis court. The kids never go out and practice together... it is just scheduled junior academy workouts where a pro, or pros, are being paid for everything. A family friend had a son heavily involved at that point, and strongly suggested we sign our son up for all of it. It was only $1,000 a month, or something like that. I thought they were insane! Of course I was able to coach my son, and hit with him every day. He did go to a tennis camp for a week each summer, and he did take a few private lessons from others to get some fresh perspective. He trained with me, and he trained with my adult buddies, who were all good former college players. None of the other juniors would ever want to hit, cause they were trained to not practice without their coach watching them (and being paid). Now, I know, there are junior coaches reading this, and I understand they are just trying to make a living. But junior tennis is so pro managed and structured now, that you either spend all this money, or your kids are left out. My son played high school basketball and tennis though those years, working at both sports year round. He did not get as good as he might have if I spent that $40 grand of so for his high school academy training, but he played college D-2 with a partial tennis scholarship. The kid whose parents suggested all the expense was eventually sent to a tennis only academy in Texas to live and go to school. Who knows what his parents spent for his junior tennis career. He eventually played for a D3 school with no athletic scholarships. I practice at a club that runs a junior tennis academy. There are kids running around everywhere, paying pros to hit balls. Another family friend has a early high school daughter in the program. They pay a pro for every second she is doing anything. I'll go to the fitness center to lift, and they are paying a trainer to put her through exercise programs. On the court, always paying a pro to hit with her. I bet she has never hit with someone else that someone was not being paid to be there. Her mom's life is sitting around in the club at night waiting on her, after working all day. Anyway, I really don't like that tennis has come to this. Almost none of these juniors around here are still playing tennis at 25. They all got sick of it, burned out, and quit. My son played against lots of very talented area players, and now in their early 20's, not a one is ever seen on a tennis court. A kid can still enjoy tennis without spending all the money. Of course tournaments cost money, and some lessons are needed. But you can probably find good adult players who will hit with your kids once they are good enough to give the adult a workout.
Here is the real world. Much like they rate BBall prospects 1 to 5 stars they are doing the same with tennis players. If you do not have the stars you can`t even get a tryout in most schools. So you have to play all the tournys and hope the raters like your game
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
And then there is the old wall

Here is the real world. Much like they rate BBall prospects 1 to 5 stars they are doing the same with tennis players. If you do not have the stars you can`t even get a tryout in most schools. So you have to play all the tournys and hope the raters like your game

wall is ok... i find self feeding more beneficial.
that bad thing about the wall, is that it reinforces taking your eye off the contact... but it does get you a lot of reps.
more beneficial if you're having trouble making consistent contact.

self feeding let's me work on specific patterns, court positions... and go for more specific targets... from specific locations,... including height of contact (ie i tend to self feed contact points below the net)
 

chrisb

Professional
wall is ok... i find self feeding more beneficial.
that bad thing about the wall, is that it reinforces taking your eye off the contact... but it does get you a lot of reps.
more beneficial if you're having trouble making consistent contact.

self feeding let's me work on specific patterns, court positions... and go for more specific targets... from specific locations,... including height of contact (ie i tend to self feed contact points below the net)
Wall is better for footwork and dealing with different types of shots also much better cardio I feed and self hit too many balls teaching
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Before I share more on the costs of tennis and how it is becoming an elitist sport, here is a great article written by a former SEC tennis star now playing futures who came from a single parent family but was able to succeed with family sacrifices and the help of pros, other players’ families, and USTA support:

http://thewishdish.com/serving-passion/

Prior posts have discussed the costs of drills, lessons, strings, racquets, shoes, tournaments and travel. However there are also educational costs; most top players are virtually schooled or attend private half day schools to accommodate their tournament travel. There are some free state sponsored virtual charter schools of varying quality-depends on how well your child can teach himself high school subjects reading and watching videos. Some students attend their public schools half day and only take 2 courses through state virtual schools which is cheap hybrid option. If you look at TRN, many top tennis players list their school as Laurel Springs, which is an online school which charges $1000-$1500+ (AP) per course or $6K to $9K per year. The half day 3 day a week private schools charge $10K-$12K. One of the local 5 stars played for his high school team last year, but missed 23 days of school over both semesters; he kept his grades up but his mom was getting flack for all the absences. He transferred to the 3 day private and now is blue chip who signed with an Ivy.

So now on top of the $20K+ for annual tennis costs, many parents are paying $6K-10K+ for education even when they live in districts with excellent public schools. Many wealthy parents do not look at tennis as a way to earn a scholarship, but instead as the way for their players to earn admissions to a highly selective D3 or Ivy school. 1/3 of the 5 stars who have committed for 2017 chose D3 or Ivy school which means no athletic scholarship. Many tennis players are the sons of surgeons, lawyers, and CEOs. Once my son played a guy with 3 different tennis courts in his backyard plus an indoor gym and oxygen chamber. There are juniors who flew to tournaments on private jets. Tennis is unfortunately become a sport for the elite. There are teaching pros that love the game who might teach talented students from poorer backgrounds for free or for very low cost, but those players are rare-most will choose other sports

The players who have been successful without spending $15K plus a year are sons and daughters of teaching pros or former college players. We knew one dad who pulled his son out of academy, trained him himself, and asked him to arrange his own match play. However, it was hard for the player to arrange all the match play he needed because the other players of his level were all at academies and only could play on non tournament weekends. In theory, top players could arrange match play on their own at home tennis courts. In practice, they could never get enough hours on neighborhood courts due to adult league play unless they go to school half day and play in afternoons. Evenings are too busy. The success of rec adult league tennis makes junior elite tennis more expensive. It takes a village of people or a wealthy parent to raise a blue chip today. For daughters, it might be financially feasible; if you have sons approach tennis as an expensive hobby with limited payback. If you can afford it,tennis teaches discipline, mental toughness, and sportsmanship and promotes fitness. Considering the number of players who play USTA or ITF tournaments each year, obviously there are many families that can afford it. One way to think about it is that the cost of tennis for a year is the cost of attending a really good local private school. If you live in an area with great public schools, maybe you keep your player in public school and pay for the tennis. The problem arises when your or daughter has to miss multiple days at that great but inflexible high school to play tennis to earn their 4, 5 star or blue chip status.
 

chrisb

Professional
Before I share more on the costs of tennis and how it is becoming an elitist sport, here is a great article written by a former SEC tennis star now playing futures who came from a single parent family but was able to succeed with family sacrifices and the help of pros, other players’ families, and USTA support:

http://thewishdish.com/serving-passion/

Prior posts have discussed the costs of drills, lessons, strings, racquets, shoes, tournaments and travel. However there are also educational costs; most top players are virtually schooled or attend private half day schools to accommodate their tournament travel. There are some free state sponsored virtual charter schools of varying quality-depends on how well your child can teach himself high school subjects reading and watching videos. Some students attend their public schools half day and only take 2 courses through state virtual schools which is cheap hybrid option. If you look at TRN, many top tennis players list their school as Laurel Springs, which is an online school which charges $1000-$1500+ (AP) per course or $6K to $9K per year. The half day 3 day a week private schools charge $10K-$12K. One of the local 5 stars played for his high school team last year, but missed 23 days of school over both semesters; he kept his grades up but his mom was getting flack for all the absences. He transferred to the 3 day private and now is blue chip who signed with an Ivy.

So now on top of the $20K+ for annual tennis costs, many parents are paying $6K-10K+ for education even when they live in districts with excellent public schools. Many wealthy parents do not look at tennis as a way to earn a scholarship, but instead as the way for their players to earn admissions to a highly selective D3 or Ivy school. 1/3 of the 5 stars who have committed for 2017 chose D3 or Ivy school which means no athletic scholarship. Many tennis players are the sons of surgeons, lawyers, and CEOs. Once my son played a guy with 3 different tennis courts in his backyard plus an indoor gym and oxygen chamber. There are juniors who flew to tournaments on private jets. Tennis is unfortunately become a sport for the elite. There are teaching pros that love the game who might teach talented students from poorer backgrounds for free or for very low cost, but those players are rare-most will choose other sports

The players who have been successful without spending $15K plus a year are sons and daughters of teaching pros or former college players. We knew one dad who pulled his son out of academy, trained him himself, and asked him to arrange his own match play. However, it was hard for the player to arrange all the match play he needed because the other players of his level were all at academies and only could play on non tournament weekends. In theory, top players could arrange match play on their own at home tennis courts. In practice, they could never get enough hours on neighborhood courts due to adult league play unless they go to school half day and play in afternoons. Evenings are too busy. The success of rec adult league tennis makes junior elite tennis more expensive. It takes a village of people or a wealthy parent to raise a blue chip today. For daughters, it might be financially feasible; if you have sons approach tennis as an expensive hobby with limited payback. If you can afford it,tennis teaches discipline, mental toughness, and sportsmanship and promotes fitness. Considering the number of players who play USTA or ITF tournaments each year, obviously there are many families that can afford it. One way to think about it is that the cost of tennis for a year is the cost of attending a really good local private school. If you live in an area with great public schools, maybe you keep your player in public school and pay for the tennis. The problem arises when your or daughter has to miss multiple days at that great but inflexible high school to play tennis to earn their 4, 5 star or blue chip status.
Great post. Yes it is a sport for the elite. It gets worse. These same parents will buy there way into the prestigious schools by making huge donations to them to let their kid in. It never stops. We as a country are evolving into 2 classes rich and poor. Stats show middle class has dropped by almost 20% in last 15 years
 

tennisjunky

Rookie
Before I share more on the costs of tennis and how it is becoming an elitist sport, here is a great article written by a former SEC tennis star now playing futures who came from a single parent family but was able to succeed with family sacrifices and the help of pros, other players’ families, and USTA support:

http://thewishdish.com/serving-passion/

Prior posts have discussed the costs of drills, lessons, strings, racquets, shoes, tournaments and travel. However there are also educational costs; most top players are virtually schooled or attend private half day schools to accommodate their tournament travel. There are some free state sponsored virtual charter schools of varying quality-depends on how well your child can teach himself high school subjects reading and watching videos. Some students attend their public schools half day and only take 2 courses through state virtual schools which is cheap hybrid option. If you look at TRN, many top tennis players list their school as Laurel Springs, which is an online school which charges $1000-$1500+ (AP) per course or $6K to $9K per year. The half day 3 day a week private schools charge $10K-$12K. One of the local 5 stars played for his high school team last year, but missed 23 days of school over both semesters; he kept his grades up but his mom was getting flack for all the absences. He transferred to the 3 day private and now is blue chip who signed with an Ivy.

So now on top of the $20K+ for annual tennis costs, many parents are paying $6K-10K+ for education even when they live in districts with excellent public schools. Many wealthy parents do not look at tennis as a way to earn a scholarship, but instead as the way for their players to earn admissions to a highly selective D3 or Ivy school. 1/3 of the 5 stars who have committed for 2017 chose D3 or Ivy school which means no athletic scholarship. Many tennis players are the sons of surgeons, lawyers, and CEOs. Once my son played a guy with 3 different tennis courts in his backyard plus an indoor gym and oxygen chamber. There are juniors who flew to tournaments on private jets. Tennis is unfortunately become a sport for the elite. There are teaching pros that love the game who might teach talented students from poorer backgrounds for free or for very low cost, but those players are rare-most will choose other sports

The players who have been successful without spending $15K plus a year are sons and daughters of teaching pros or former college players. We knew one dad who pulled his son out of academy, trained him himself, and asked him to arrange his own match play. However, it was hard for the player to arrange all the match play he needed because the other players of his level were all at academies and only could play on non tournament weekends. In theory, top players could arrange match play on their own at home tennis courts. In practice, they could never get enough hours on neighborhood courts due to adult league play unless they go to school half day and play in afternoons. Evenings are too busy. The success of rec adult league tennis makes junior elite tennis more expensive. It takes a village of people or a wealthy parent to raise a blue chip today. For daughters, it might be financially feasible; if you have sons approach tennis as an expensive hobby with limited payback. If you can afford it,tennis teaches discipline, mental toughness, and sportsmanship and promotes fitness. Considering the number of players who play USTA or ITF tournaments each year, obviously there are many families that can afford it. One way to think about it is that the cost of tennis for a year is the cost of attending a really good local private school. If you live in an area with great public schools, maybe you keep your player in public school and pay for the tennis. The problem arises when your or daughter has to miss multiple days at that great but inflexible high school to play tennis to earn their 4, 5 star or blue chip status.

Really good comments, have to say I'm rather depressed after reading your post.
It is so true that its expensive, getting more expensive and there doesn't seem to be any let up. Chrisb said it becoming (or already is) a sport for the elites. Maybe I should pick up polo.
I only make very low six figures and I can't afford this financial hit.
The way I see it, if your kid shows HUGH talent on their own and they are emotionally equipped for the game, than they can possibly succeed in this sport, but if you have to push your kid, than its best to let tennis go as a collegiate opportunity and place them in them in the recreational side, as any effort you put in ODDS are their will not be a pay out.

It is 100% true, tennis teaches discipline, mental toughness, and sportsmanship and promotes fitness but so can recreational tennis.

I hate to admit it but maybe the future is with foreign talent, as they are the ones crazy enough to spend this insane amount of money.

I'll not say any more as I haven't had morning coffee and I'm already depressed and rambling, ha ha. WOW 3 courts in back yard and O2 room?!?!?!
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
Okay, I've got an old school grouchy 'old guy" take on junior tennis and the crazy amount parents spend. No way is all this money spent a good investment in the sense that most will see much return on it in college scholarships. I grew up in a small town with few tennis players and no pros. Those of us that played would stay at the courts playing with anyone because we loved it. It was a different time, with many more men's programs, but I went to a camp one week, two different times in my junior year for all my formal instruction, and still ended up having a successful NAIA college career. After college I was a teaching pro for a while. Back then I would give good juniors one or two hour lessons a week, and they were out there hitting with each other all the rest of the time. They probably paid for instruction for maybe 1 out of every 25 hours they were on the court. A couple of those kids played D-1. I played tournaments for many years at a high level, but was not longer a pro, and lost touch with junior tennis. A few years ago my son was a good athlete, was a starting QB on his junior high football team, but had a serious injury. He missed basketball season, and was in a brace for 3 months. We talked him into dropping football at that time for tennis, along with basketball. At that point I found out what junior tennis had become. The parents pay for coaching every second their kids are on a tennis court. The kids never go out and practice together... it is just scheduled junior academy workouts where a pro, or pros, are being paid for everything. A family friend had a son heavily involved at that point, and strongly suggested we sign our son up for all of it. It was only $1,000 a month, or something like that. I thought they were insane! Of course I was able to coach my son, and hit with him every day. He did go to a tennis camp for a week each summer, and he did take a few private lessons from others to get some fresh perspective. He trained with me, and he trained with my adult buddies, who were all good former college players. None of the other juniors would ever want to hit, cause they were trained to not practice without their coach watching them (and being paid). Now, I know, there are junior coaches reading this, and I understand they are just trying to make a living. But junior tennis is so pro managed and structured now, that you either spend all this money, or your kids are left out. My son played high school basketball and tennis though those years, working at both sports year round. He did not get as good as he might have if I spent that $40 grand of so for his high school academy training, but he played college D-2 with a partial tennis scholarship. The kid whose parents suggested all the expense was eventually sent to a tennis only academy in Texas to live and go to school. Who knows what his parents spent for his junior tennis career. He eventually played for a D3 school with no athletic scholarships. I practice at a club that runs a junior tennis academy. There are kids running around everywhere, paying pros to hit balls. Another family friend has a early high school daughter in the program. They pay a pro for every second she is doing anything. I'll go to the fitness center to lift, and they are paying a trainer to put her through exercise programs. On the court, always paying a pro to hit with her. I bet she has never hit with someone else that someone was not being paid to be there. Her mom's life is sitting around in the club at night waiting on her, after working all day. Anyway, I really don't like that tennis has come to this. Almost none of these juniors around here are still playing tennis at 25. They all got sick of it, burned out, and quit. My son played against lots of very talented area players, and now in their early 20's, not a one is ever seen on a tennis court. A kid can still enjoy tennis without spending all the money. Of course tournaments cost money, and some lessons are needed. But you can probably find good adult players who will hit with your kids once they are good enough to give the adult a workout.

I agree.

Regarding hitting with other juniors... you do have to wary about developing bad long term habits (e.g. Switch to a Hawaiian grip, pushing, too big a swing, etc,....) to counter things like moonballing... i.e. For junior who hasn't quite learned how to hit through the ball on the rise. (But if they are getting at least a weekly lesson they should be good)

In the end, parents pay for it because they can (or because they realize they can make more money in their domain, then they can save by DIY'ing it).

But for others, you can do quite a lot if you spend some time researching... like the Williams did.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tennisdad99

New User
Strong academics can make the difference also. My kid is public school with great test scores and grades. He's been accepted with academic scholarships at every school he applied. He gave his verbal commitment to a very good academic private university where he got an academic and athletic scholarship. He's not a blue chip or 5 star, and the school is not a tennis powerhouse. Our family is not rich. But he gets to play D-1 tennis, and with the athletic money the school is more affordable than the private elite academic D-3 tennis powerhouse schools that were recruiting him.

You will also hear horror stories about men's US players in the 5 star range that go to Power 5 Conference schools and never play. They end up transferring or quitting college tennis. Even when they had all of the money they needed in juniors. That's why D-3 at the top levels has gotten so competitive. Those elite D-3 teams are full of players from upper class families that have faced reality. Those players know they won't play at the Top D-1 schools, so they opt for a great education and high level D-3 play. The other option is low tier D-1, or D-2. A lot of the D-2 schools (not all) aren't that great academically, and the are lots in internationals there, too.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
You will also hear horror stories about men's US players in the 5 star range that go to Power 5 Conference schools and never play. They end up transferring or quitting college tennis. Even when they had all of the money they needed in juniors. That's why D-3 at the top levels has gotten so competitive. Those elite D-3 teams are full of players from upper class families that have faced reality. Those players know they won't play at the Top D-1 schools, so they opt for a great education and high level D-3 play. The other option is low tier D-1, or D-2. A lot of the D-2 schools (not all) aren't that great academically, and the are lots in internationals there, too.

My son chose a midmajor too, and he gets tired of other players asking him about his choice because there are lower ranked players signed with the Power schools. However, it is unlikely those guys will get to play, and they probably got little to no athletic $. Because of the difference in athletic aid, it would have cost him 3x as much to attend a Power school, and slightly better athletic facilities weren't worth that much. He really liked the midmajor too-the coach, team, and location; there are a lot of players that are tennis snobs who would rather sit on a bench at a Power School than play for a MM conference. Those guys need to visit some MMs before accepting peanuts from the Powers.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
I wish it was easier for juniors to find adults to hit with. When my son was playing local tournaments and had a midmorning match but didnt want to warm up on site at 7am, he had a hard time finding a junior not playing the tournament willing to get up and hit at 8am. However, there were probably adults who would have been willing to hit, get in some exercise before their weekend chores or attending their kids' sports events.

The US tennis scene needs some tennis lovers/entreprenuers to make things happen cheaply and locally outside the USTA and ITF venues. UTR is willing to sanction local events. ITF is cutting out the Future 15Ks after 2018 so there will be a bunch of college grads looking for outlets to play.

thanks nytennisaddict for being willing to play with juniors. Hopefully a lot more of that will happen in the Future. Why are we letting the French have all the cheap fun?!!
i definitely wish there are ways to connect passionate tennis folks.

you'd think USTA would revamp their website, and create a medium for like minded players to find each other.... more people IMO would join the USTA just to get exclusive access to a tool that would allow folks looking for other players to find each other. they would get more member competing in leagues just to get/increase their NTRP rating. maybe if they didn't want to pay for UTR (or tencap, etc..), they could just revamp their NTRP (or make the decimal component more transparent). but instead you get zero/little investment in the recreational market (not sure if they do this so that local clubs can profit as well)

instead you get random meetup groups, local club leagues/ladders, yahoo groups, pickup groups in local parks, etc... half which exaggerate their rating.
 

gplracer

Hall of Fame
It is expensive. My son has played over 500 USTA matches and he is 14 years old. He is 6'2". We are driving farther now to find players for him to hit with. For whatever reason our area does not have as many good players as it did when our older child was playing. I am a 4.5 player but hitting with dad is not always the best option. We pay for coaching, travel, tournaments, fitness, shoes each month, lots of string, and college kids for him to hit with.
 

Tcbtennis

Hall of Fame
My years as a junior tennis parent are coming to an end. My daughter plays D-3 and my son will play D-1 later this year. They both will be playing for strong academic schools. It is without a doubt an extremely expensive sport. I totally agree with everything that @jcgatennismom has written about all that goes into making a strong junior player. Unlike team sports where the coaching, equipment and travel are sponsored by the school, tennis is solely the financial responsibility of the parents. Playing for the local high school team will not cut it as a path to college tennis. I am yet to meet a tennis parent whose occupation is firefighter or policeman or mechanic, etc. If the mother works, she is a lawyer or a physician. If the mother is a nurse she is usually married to a physician. A good percentage of the fathers are in the financial sector. As a result tennis in the U.S. is an elitist sport and unfortunately I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I've been involved with my children in the junior tennis tournament circuit since 2007 and I have seen how the kids who were average to good players greatly improve their ranking once they started on line schooling. I've seen kids who were always at the top in the 10s, 12s and 14s totally disappear by the 16s and 18s. Some disappeared because of injury but mostly because everybody caught up to them and they couldn't deal with not being at the top. As an individual sport is so instrumental in teaching life lessons. You learn to problem solve in real time. You learn that the effort you put in now can reap rewards in the future. You learn that a person's sportsmanship on the court is directly related to the type of person s/he is off the court. You learn to have discipline in managing your time, especially if you are a strong academic student.

I've loved every minute of our tennis journey and am sad that it is coming to an end. Both kids will be at schools not close to home so I won't be able to watch them play as much as I would like. Thankfully more and more schools have live streaming for some matches.
 
... Get a UTR membership and look for local recent grads this summer. Bet your teenager can find them on Instagram. ...

Thank you very much for your endorsement!

Coming soon... UTR subscribers that have claimed their player profile, will be able to add links to their social media accounts.
 
What I hope to see in the future, that would bring costs down, is an expansion of UTR to adults ...

This has now begun.

In the past month, we have added 38,181 ITF Senior tournament match results, and 76,094 USTA results (includes NTRP and Age results for the past 12 months), in an effort to provide more adults with a Universal Tennis Rating (UTR). Later this month we will begin adding USTA League results.

We see the inclusion of adult players in UTR Events as an important ingredient for successful level-based competition.
 
Top