Cost of Development for Junior?

What is the point of playing college tennis?

#1. Get scholarship: for boys super competitive these days but for girls not much..haha even at the pro level

#2. Play tennis and get a degree from good school - you have to be superman to be number 1 in junior tennis and A in academic to play college tennis for FREE and get a degree in engineering or become doctor.

Bottomline what is the future after playing college tennis (apart from top class life learning lesson...as if who never played tennis is stupid...lol)

Get a good degree which will pay your bills or become pro after playing college tennis...middle route is not going anywhere...

I am not throwing insult or talking without experience. Please tell me if I am wrong with facts no lecture about a life lesson etc..
 

MathGeek

Hall of Fame
We're paying $300 a month or so for my son's tennis. He does not have the talent to ever be a Division 1 athlete or athletic scholarship prospect even in the lower tier schools. A six figure investment would not change that. But he's having fun.

Our approach is making our greater investment in money and effort in his academic improvements and landing academic scholarships with tennis as more the "well rounded" part of admissions and scholarship applications. Our teens have had great success landing full ride scholarships to top 30 schools with a main focus on academics and a secondary focus on athletics (rather than the more common main focus on athletics and secondary focus on athletics).

Getting ACT scores in the 30s is a much more likely outcome for investment in time and money than getting teens ranked highly enough in a given state to land athletic scholarships. My recommendation is to invest more in education than in athletics, and invest in athletics for the fun and interests of the child, not in hopes of a payday that will likely never come.
 
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mmk

Hall of Fame
Not tennis, but my wife's youngest brother has a daughter who is a top 50 ranked HS softball player (think 5 star) and has a full ride to Delaware waiting for her. His costs haven't been quite as much as some people pay for their kid's tennis, but he did tell us he won't break even. And there is no pro-softball for her to dream about after college. She will get a useful education, but it will end up costing him more than if she had never played softball.
We spent maybe $5K total for our youngest daughter to play on field hockey and lacrosse travel teams, knowing full well that while she was decent, she was not an elite athlete. She might have been able to play field hockey at some D1 schools, but she wanted to play both in college so she went to a reasonably good D3 engineering school in Cambridge MA (MathGeek's Alma Mater), started both all four years, captained both, got a good job after graduation and at 26 makes more than I do. And plays adult field hockey with a bunch of ex-D1 players to boot.
 
For daughter; spent $200k-ish and got a full D1 ride. Out of state tuition = $53k/yr so I realized a small "profit". The money didn't yield results though. She was talented, and driven enough to work her a _ _ off to graduate top 20 nationally. The real benefit was hundreds of hours spend travelling with her, and developing a bond that is everything I cold have wished for. I got a kid that produced straight A's, no boys, no booze, no drugs. I hit the lottery. That said, if she hadn't been willing to put out the effort, I probably wouldn't have spent the same to train and travel.

However, for my son I cannot justify the investment, and that's exactly how I perceive it. I want some return on money invested, and spending $200k on a boy who will likely receive 0-25% scholarship is not worth it. I choose to pursue other sports with him (his choice of sport) and am able to greatly reduce the cost of participation, without loss of scholarship opportunity. We get the same travel/bonding time as with my daughter, but at a fraction of the cost. Add to that the proliferation of foreign players who use our system as high-level training for the pro tour, coupled with the daily elimination of men's tennis programs, and the chances of a US male securing a tennis scholarship become more minuscule by the day.

If you have a daughter, Title IX is your friend. Embrace it. If you have a son, don't spend what you can't afford.
 

Nacho

Hall of Fame
Hello Tennis Experts!!!

I’m new to this forum but not tennis and could really use some of your insights as fuel for a family question that has recently come up.

I have a niece that is 14, she has been playing for several years now and really seems to enjoy herself. She has been heavily involved a lot in tennis camps and tournaments for several years now.

But recently in a conversation with her mother (my sister), she said it is time to cut their losses and will be pulling her out of competitive tennis this year. I have to admit I was a little surprised.
When asked why because she always seemed to really be having a good time and seemed to be driven; she said it was costing too much: money, time and overall effort for something that has turned into a recreational hobby.

I didn’t pursue the issue to much afterward as I'm no expert, but its really bothered me as I’d always thought her path was to a university tennis team. Unsure if this was possible but she has talked about this often. Stopping mid-way through a sport just didn’t seem right (to me); considering all the time, effort and expenses already utilized.

Later our mother informed me they had already spent about >$50,000 on: training, tournaments, leagues and camps since she was 8 years old!

And they just didn’t want to spend another $50k for the next 4-5 years. She’ll still play tennis, but just on the local school team with no more: camps, tournaments, clinics, etc.

I have to admit, I only played for about 7 years in junior and high school and only went to a few camps, so the expense never seemed to be a problem. But, I never thought that tennis in these development years cost so much!!!

I’m still floored!!

Anyway, my question is, is this a realistic cost for junior development (as my sister is saying)? $5k-$7k per year from (roughly 8-10 years)?????
Or do kids develop in the schools teams (as I did)? Of course that might answer my question as I never thought of myself as a strong player, ha ha.
Just looking for some good thoughts to maybe keep the competitive side of tennis going for her, rather than going down the recreational side.

Thanks for your comments.

All High School sports cost money, so there is no golden egg sport that someone can play which they aren't going to put a little time and money into. However, tennis is definitely more expensive then other sports. Its not just the expense, but the convenience of what you have to do to excel, and these kids are fighting for very few scholarships, and with International players as well who don't have quite the burden of travel expenses. Its really horrible for Jr's, most parents have gotten smart to this and are putting their kids in other sports with a little more realistic chance of competing.

$50,000 over a five year period sounds about right....Surprised its not even more...

Only thing she can do is work at finding other kids or adults to play with, get into some drilling which is less costly then private lessons, and then play as many local tournaments as possible for practice. Ernesto Escobedo did this and he is winning challengers and now ATP matches at age 20. Its not impossible, but depends a lot on the kid playing and their desire to succeed.
 

Sal vanturra

New User
"My friend's parents were like her mom, honestly very sad because they all just ended up getting killed by the players like me who's mom was fine with spending the money."

Wow, Ihatetennis, I had a visceral reaction to your reply. Good for you that your parents had enough money to get you all the lessons you needed. I suppose tennis is still a sport which fails to attract the strongest athletes so wealthy parents can essentially buy their wealthy children (who are not necessarily great athletes) higher rankings by getting them more extensive lessons and such than is possible for parents who are not wealthy. But, Ihatetennis, did it occur to you that, for some families, the issue isn't whether the parents are "fine with spending the money" but that spending the money is either impossible or brings hardship, not that you've ever experienced hardship of course. I guess money does not buy insight or thoughtfulness.
 

Historyhorn

New User
I was drawn to this post since My family is right in the middle of this conundrum. My son just finished his junior year and has been playing tennis seriously for about 3.5 years. Prior to that (in Jr High), he played lots of sports including football, basketball, cross country, track, and baseball. Some of those he was better at than others.

The two sports he showed proclivity for were baseball and tennis. He could run, catch, and throw on the baseball diamond and worked his way into an elite hitter. He was decent at tennis because he is/was quick, has good hand/eye, and good body control.

His freshman year, as a family, we sat down and talked about becoming more committed to excellence in a single sport. That sport ended up being tennis for a variety of reasons. Thinking back on it, I wonder if that was a mistake. We probably sink just under 10k a year in court, clinic, and training fees at a local public training center. I don't want to think about how much in equipment and travel, since all of our tournaments are "out of town" (meaning more than 2 hours away). He goes to tournaments at least once a month. Finding good match play is extremely difficult as there are no/few juniors at his level in the area. Hotels, meals, gas, and miscellaneous add up in a hurry.

I've kind of reached the point where I wonder if this has been worth it. He will never be elite. He is a good athlete, but so many kids have years of head start and time spent either home schooled or at a residential academy. The ceiling is going to be about top 50 in Texas.

We never expected to recoup our costs in the form of scholarships. I know college athletics and Title IX realities too well to expect that kind of return. What we did expect was that the people around the game would be about kids. That's not really the case. My experience has led me to believe that kids and by proxy their parents are really just marks to be targeted for $$.

This is no game for a nurse (my wife) and a public school educator (me) to be playing. Our kid will play college tennis at a small liberal arts school outside of Texas, but if we had to do it again...I think it'd be baseball. Less $$, more team lessons & dynamics, & frankly the game doesn't seem to be rigged against middle and lower socio-economic kids/parents.
 

BigGuy

Rookie
I was drawn to this post since My family is right in the middle of this conundrum. My son just finished his junior year and has been playing tennis seriously for about 3.5 years. Prior to that (in Jr High), he played lots of sports including football, basketball, cross country, track, and baseball. Some of those he was better at than others.

The two sports he showed proclivity for were baseball and tennis. He could run, catch, and throw on the baseball diamond and worked his way into an elite hitter. He was decent at tennis because he is/was quick, has good hand/eye, and good body control.

His freshman year, as a family, we sat down and talked about becoming more committed to excellence in a single sport. That sport ended up being tennis for a variety of reasons. Thinking back on it, I wonder if that was a mistake. We probably sink just under 10k a year in court, clinic, and training fees at a local public training center. I don't want to think about how much in equipment and travel, since all of our tournaments are "out of town" (meaning more than 2 hours away). He goes to tournaments at least once a month. Finding good match play is extremely difficult as there are no/few juniors at his level in the area. Hotels, meals, gas, and miscellaneous add up in a hurry.

I've kind of reached the point where I wonder if this has been worth it. He will never be elite. He is a good athlete, but so many kids have years of head start and time spent either home schooled or at a residential academy. The ceiling is going to be about top 50 in Texas.

We never expected to recoup our costs in the form of scholarships. I know college athletics and Title IX realities too well to expect that kind of return. What we did expect was that the people around the game would be about kids. That's not really the case. My experience has led me to believe that kids and by proxy their parents are really just marks to be targeted for $$.

This is no game for a nurse (my wife) and a public school educator (me) to be playing. Our kid will play college tennis at a small liberal arts school outside of Texas, but if we had to do it again...I think it'd be baseball. Less $$, more team lessons & dynamics, & frankly the game doesn't seem to be rigged against middle and lower socio-economic kids/parents.

Wow, that's so weird how similar our situations are. As far as my oldest son, baseball and tennis. We had made an ultimatum that we had to decide on either tennis or baseball before entering high school. He's been playing both seriously (but not at the very highest level--I can't afford tennis academies/travel baseball) since he was 7. He is entering high school in two months and we are no closer to a decision. He said he was leaning towards tennis, but I'm leaning toward baseball--ultimately I will have to go with what he says because he will be the one doing the hard work. Luckily, I was a pretty high-level tennis coach myself, so I have helped get him to where he might have a shot at a low D1 or D2, probably partial scholarship at best, crack the starting line up in a few years level in tennis. But still, it's the kids that drop out of school and hit a million tennis balls a week and/or academy 4+ hours a day every day that he is competing with, and no amount of coaching will replace all of those reps. So I don't know. HS tennis isn't really going to help, as although the state I live in has good HS tennis teams, it is generally dominated by private schools that are basically athletic academies. In his district and region, he would be mostly just racking up easy wins then get crushed at state. The best tennis players don't even do HS tennis, and his coach isn't really a serious tennis player. School tennis doesn't even start until December/january. So high school provides only limited development. Meanwhile, literally the last day of middle school his HS baseball team had their first practice. They practice four days a week for 2-3 hours in the summer, along with scrimmages. The cost of this? $120. I don't need to tell you how this compares to tennis. They do weight training and conditioning year round, play ten times more games, the coach is a real baseball player, etc. The contrast is stark. The cost and ease of reaching the higher levels of baseball compared to the ridiculous money and constant scrounging and hustling for opportunities in tennis, I just don't know. The decision would have been made a while ago if it weren't for our true love of tennis. I don't know that the chances for financial payoff in college are any better in either sport, but if that were the reason we were doing this, we would be fools. Just want him to get the bigger lessons of sport, to find out what it means to be excellent, etc.
 

Historyhorn

New User
Here are the lists of commitments from my son's select travel baseball team:

University of Texas
Texas Christian University
Lubbock Christian
Texas A&M
Oklahoma State
and a host of Division II teams

My son played CF and batted in the 2 or 3 hole.

Now, none of these boys will get a full ride scholarship to any of these Universities, but they are getting at least part of their school paid for with athletic moneys above the academic aid they qualify to receive. Of course the travel baseball is an expense, but nowhere near as costly as tennis. Maybe about 1/5 the monthly cost. In addition, the 4 HS baseball teams that these kids feed into all play at a very high level where their growth is supplemented rather than stunted.

Oddly, there is little to no competition for those scholarships from foreign players. There are few if any kids from the DR, Venezuela, Colombia, Mexico, Japan, Korea, Puerto Rico, Panama, etc.

The same can be said for local golf players. My son does not play golf, but we have friends whose kids are getting partial rides at D1 schools for golf. Very few foreign players taking those scholarships either.

I wonder what conditions make American College tennis so ripe for foreign players versus other sports that have talent from across the globe.

I know you must let your kid decide what is best for himself, but I would encourage him to pick baseball. The deck is not stacked against him as it is in tennis (foreign players in the college ranks & the whole academy/home school thing for really top juniors).

Best of luck to him and you.
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
Parents who consider tennis a waste of money don't value their children over them.

7k a year is very little for the valuable life lessons I learned through tennis.

100s of millions of parents around the world have limited financials resources and face this tough decision:

Food and shelter

vs

tennis (with bonus life lessons like overcomong cramps and bad line calls)
 

Startzel

Hall of Fame
Parents who consider tennis a waste of money don't value their children over them.

I don't see how my friends parents can rationalize just quitting on them like that, I will do anything for my future kids success.

7k a year is very little for the valuable life lessons I learned through tennis.

I learned how to use sheer will to win, under cramps, pulled hamstring(or groin), under 100 degree heat in the summer, Those matches aren't fun, they're war and they suck. But getting through them showed me how strong I could be.

But I also had to learn how to persevere through the toughest times(24 match losing streak over 12 months) and to believe in myself and not quit when it got tough.

I also learned to accept that even with all my effort sometimes it wasn't good enough and that I had to be proud of my fight even if I had not won.

Those life lessons are what will get me through my premed path, every time classes get harder I know I can step up my intensity and work through it, meanwhile I've seen many students cry and breakdown in the middle of tests.

The mental toughness needed to do what I'm doing is crazy, and I owe mine to tennis, and my mom for supporting me through it all and not letting me give up on myself even when I thought there was nothing left for me to do.

This is why Americans are falling behind in tennis. Our best athletes can't afford to play the sport.

You act like 7k is loose change. It's 13% of the average us household income.
 

BlueB

Legend
You act like 7k is loose change. It's 13% of the average us household income.
Yeah, a bit too much of privileged attitude / sense of entitlement...

Parents need to be clear of what they want to achieve and what's realistic for their kid.

If going to the college was the main goal, they are better of investing an extra 7K per year, for the entire potential duration of their kid's Tennis training, then into the training itself.

If they are willing to pursue the extremely uncertain path of going pro, then college and possibly high school diplomas shouldn't be in the picture.

Finally, if the goal is to play a beautiful sport on high rec level, experience competition, work ethics and mental pressure, it can be done with way less then 7k. Get lessons once a week, to keep and further develop good technique, have hitting/self drilling/friendly match sessions with peers from classes few times a week, play local tourneys and selected regional ones, or even a league, play on high school team. All combined, it should be good enough to get onto a college team. Doesn't have to be a scholarship, as the funds are already in the kitty.

Now a reverse analysis:
Let's say one's parents have spent all that money (and more), lots of stars aligned, and kid got onto a tennis scholarship at a top team. Great during the college, free ride, lots of tennis... Then the college is over and then... what? Since academics were pursued, assumption is that the person is not trying to go pro. Now a fresh graduate will not have money or time (career starting) for high end training any more, so fitness and skill will start degrading. At the same time, there would be very little competition at the level that makes it interesting for our youngster...
Future prospects:
Degrade further and sand bag until can play 4.5 leagues and tourneys;
Have an opportunity to work as a club/academy pro, as a fun side job or backup job;
Ocationaly find someone who had similar path and skill, play a great match, then have few beers and talk about good old days;
Tell grandchildren the stories of college and great Tennis you used to play...

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
 

Bluefan75

Professional
100s of millions of parents around the world have limited financials resources and face this tough decision:

Food and shelter

vs

tennis (with bonus life lessons like overcomong cramps and bad line calls)

Does dealing with bad line calls teach you more about life than dealing with an umpire at a road game who calls you out after stepping on home plate? Just trying to get the list down. I know it was the 80s, but I'm trying to think if my parents spent $7,000 on all my baseball over the 10 years I played.
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
Does dealing with bad line calls teach you more about life than dealing with an umpire at a road game who calls you out after stepping on home plate? Just trying to get the list down. I know it was the 80s, but I'm trying to think if my parents spent $7,000 on all my baseball over the 10 years I played.

My high school team's tennis coach also used to play baseball. One day we were talking about baseball and he gave us an unsolicited secret tip on how play the catcher position when a runner is charging toward you in hopes of knocking the ball out of your hand/mitt. He advised that we hold the ball in the in mid and then make a fist with the other hand while it is in the mitt, making it appear like you are holding the ball with your non-mitt hand in the mitt. Then when the runner approaches, you do a sweeping motion with both hands as if you are trying to tag him, but as you sweep you separate your hands and the non-mitt hand that is balled up in a fist punches the runner in the face.
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
Even if you spend the 7k a year on tennis for your kid, they still might one day create a username called ihatetennis on a tennis message board.

On the other hand, if you don't spend the 7k, they might make a userid called ihatemyparents.

Yeah, a bit too much of privileged attitude / sense of entitlement...

Parents need to be clear of what they want to achieve and what's realistic for their kid.

If going to the college was the main goal, they are better of investing an extra 7K per year, for the entire potential duration of their kid's Tennis training, then into the training itself.

If they are willing to pursue the extremely uncertain path of going pro, then college and possibly high school diplomas shouldn't be in the picture.

Finally, if the goal is to play a beautiful sport on high rec level, experience competition, work ethics and mental pressure, it can be done with way less then 7k. Get lessons once a week, to keep and further develop good technique, have hitting/self drilling/friendly match sessions with peers from classes few times a week, play local tourneys and selected regional ones, or even a league, play on high school team. All combined, it should be good enough to get onto a college team. Doesn't have to be a scholarship, as the funds are already in the kitty.

Now a reverse analysis:
Let's say one's parents have spent all that money (and more), lots of stars aligned, and kid got onto a tennis scholarship at a top team. Great during the college, free ride, lots of tennis... Then the college is over and then... what? Since academics were pursued, assumption is that the person is not trying to go pro. Now a fresh graduate will not have money or time (career starting) for high end training any more, so fitness and skill will start degrading. At the same time, there would be very little competition at the level that makes it interesting for our youngster...
Future prospects:
Degrade further and sand bag until can play 4.5 leagues and tourneys;
Have an opportunity to work as a club/academy pro, as a fun side job or backup job;
Ocationaly find someone who had similar path and skill, play a great match, then have few beers and talk about good old days;
Tell grandchildren the stories of college and great Tennis you used to play...

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
 

drgolder

New User
I would like to add that it depends on what your child wants to do after college. I dont know of any college players around here that had a high enough gpa to get into med school for instance. You can spend 30 to 50 k a year on junior tennis and give lessons when your done or coach somewhere i guess. If this is not your goal , junior tennis is not worth it.
 

Hangman

Rookie
I have 3 kids (14, 12 and 10) so this thread is very interesting to me. The two oldest play tennis. My expectation from the sport is just that, its a sport. Nothing more and nothing less, especially not as an investment or financial return of any sort. I don't have an expectation for them to get scholarships from it. It would make much more sense to invest that $12K per year for college in a 529 account than expect to get anything financially from tennis. I would have no problems if they suddenly tell me that they do not like it anymore and to stop. I take the same view for their music lessons as well. I spend about the same, but again, do not expect a music scholarship for college. Its what they like and enjoy so the cost is worth it as long as they understand that it is a privilege and they appreciate it.

As far as college and their education goes, that is priority one. They are required to get straight high A's to remain in any sport or other activity. They get a warning for anything below a 95 and if they get below a 90, all their activities are suspended until their grades come back up. Fortunately, they have not had to deal with that yet...
 

drgolder

New User
Also it would be a great improvement to the sport to have line judges especially in junior tournaments. It is the only sport i know of that actually seems to condone cheating since it is so easy to get away with. Many kids complain and quit because of it.
 

Historyhorn

New User
Also it would be a great improvement to the sport to have line judges especially in junior tournaments. It is the only sport i know of that actually seems to condone cheating since it is so easy to get away with. Many kids complain and quit because of it.

Hooking is bad in junior tennis. It could be fairly easily rectified with more roving officials that actually overrule calls when in error.


Many of the roving officials seem to be there to collect their pay & simply prevent kids from getting into outright screaming matches over line calls.

If kids don't know when an official is watching & will overrule their calls, then it'll clean up a bunch of the crap.
 

tennisjunky

Rookie
Great responses and really good life examples and suggestions from PARENTS... you know... the ones actually flipping the bills!
I suspect many on this post are privileged, young, have no kids or are just a Troll... judging by their responses.

For a girl, I've listed below some of the top take always (just in my opinion), even though there seems to be many.
For a boy, HA, I wouldn't spend an extra dime beyond basic instruction just too many foreigners. College men's tennis is NOT for men in the USA. Tennis is an international sport primarily to be played by foreigners in the USA at our expense.

Best Take Always for girls are:
1. Expectation isn't college, if it happens great by this isn't the priority. Her play will be for: family bonding, physical fitness, staying away from boys, booze, drugs and meeting better quality of people.
2. Finding good hitting partners for her. Should be fine to do in Houston area.
3. 2-3 hour at group practice is mostly for polishing off skills, having fun. I'll teach her the finer technical and tactical skills.
4. Will volunteer at her schools to ensure quality of play (I'm at a 4.5 level and there are many boys she can hit against so she can be challenged).
5. Will partner up with other parents who are like minded and will organized hitting sessions as well as with ball machine. In essence I'll set up training for her and like minded friends.
6. No travel beyond 2 hours from Houston for tournaments. Which means: Dallas, Austin, Houston vicinity. And again partner up with other parents to car pool.
7. And above all it all needs to be kept on a fun level.

Many other comments are EXCELLENT, but above seems to be my hit list.

Would anyone like to add anything please do.
 
I have three kids who love tennis. They began in elementary school, and the two oldest are now in college playing at the D3 level. I agree with all the other comments regarding the cost of junior tennis.

We can't afford to travel all over the country: If we can't drive to a tournament, my kids don't play in the tournament. Thankfully, both Tennis Recruiting and Universal Tennis have helped us to manage our travel costs. Without these two rating systems, the costs would be even more expensive because players would be forced to travel and chase USTA points in order to get on the coaches' radars.

Now that Universal Tennis is being used by college coaches, players should be able to find UTR sponsored tournaments that are closer to home than many of the high level USTA tournaments yet still be able to demonstrate their level of play to college coaches thanks to their UTR. Hopefully, this will help contain the costs even more for those juniors that want to play college tennis but can't afford the USTA travel expenses on top of all the other tennis costs.
 

bxr

New User
You learn that a person's sportsmanship on the court is directly related to the type of person s/he is off the court. You learn to have discipline in managing your time, especially if you are a strong academic student.
Couldn't agree more. On court sportsmanship perhaps reflects more of the player's true nature than off the court. Most of the strong academic kids who play competitive tennis know that it is very tough getting that balance right, one takes more priority than the other depending on different situations.
 

tennisdad10

New User
My friend's parents were like her mom, honestly very sad because they all just ended up getting killed by the players like me who's mom was fine with spending the money.

They lost love for the sport and quit after 2 years while I got accepted to top liberal arts schools for premed as an athletic recruit(gives you advantage in admissions) and now play college tennis.

I will never make money from tennis but the experience and character growth is more valuable that the 50k it cost.
Depends. The top junior competitive tennis players (top 25-50 of each age group) in the country probably spend around $3K-$5K a month including 3-4 private lessons a week, private hitting partners, and some clinics for hitting practice. Anything less and you're looking at good players in your section, lower--you're looking at high school and rec tennis.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Depends. The top junior competitive tennis players (top 25-50 of each age group) in the country probably spend around $3K-$5K a month including 3-4 private lessons a week, private hitting partners, and some clinics for hitting practice. Anything less and you're looking at good players in your section, lower--you're looking at high school and rec tennis.
It’s not cheap but doesn’t have to be that high. My son was top 50 in his class and we spent $15-$20k a year in HS including training, tournaments and travel. He went to regular HS and flew to a tourney once or twice a year-rest were in driving distance. He had less than a dozen private lessons over 8 years. Instead he trained with coaches who did small group training with enough individual attention. I know of players-mostly sons of coaches-who reached 4 or 5 star spending only $5-6K a year for tournaments and equipment. I know a lot of 4 star players who played HS tennis and still earned a spot in a D1 lineup (mostly MM) and several have gone on to win ATP points. There are multiple routes to D1 tennis and not all of them cost a fortune.
 

JLyon

Hall of Fame
It’s not cheap but doesn’t have to be that high. My son was top 50 in his class and we spent $15-$20k a year in HS including training, tournaments and travel. He went to regular HS and flew to a tourney once or twice a year-rest were in driving distance. He had less than a dozen private lessons over 8 years. Instead he trained with coaches who did small group training with enough individual attention. I know of players-mostly sons of coaches-who reached 4 or 5 star spending only $5-6K a year for tournaments and equipment. I know a lot of 4 star players who played HS tennis and still earned a spot in a D1 lineup (mostly MM) and several have gone on to win ATP points. There are multiple routes to D1 tennis and not all of them cost a fortune.
IMO it comes down to work ethic of the player, sounds like your son had a strong work ethic and studied the game enough to be comfortable with small groups and outside training. I am not a proponent of all privates, but I guess if that is what parents want to do and spend tons of money so be it, but there is no clear recipe for success.
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
Been a while since I’ve been in this,

I wanna clarify 7k a year for tennis parents is not unusual by any means.

I finished my premed courses,hated biology. Decided that wasn’t for me but I succeeded in the path should I have wanted to pursue(still can technically) med school.

i started a tennis academy, took a girl from a 4 utr to an 8 utr for 25k over 2 years. She’s got a scholarship waiting for her sophomore year at a private d1 school in the northeast.

most parents of kids I work with spend around 600 a month. Some up to 1400 a month.

it’s a bit funny 5 years later being on the opposite end of the conversation.

Entitled to think 7k isn’t a lot to spend? Maybe. But tennis parents are tennis parents, I wasn’t talking about any kid at local hs.

if you are taking lessons at a country club or academy going rate is around 500 a month for full time clinics. Sometimes more.

tennis isn’t cheap, it’s never going to be either. But 500 a month isn’t an extreme amount to be paying for tennis.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Been a while since I’ve been in this,

I wanna clarify 7k a year for tennis parents is not unusual by any means.

I finished my premed courses,hated biology. Decided that wasn’t for me but I succeeded in the path should I have wanted to pursue(still can technically) med school.

i started a tennis academy, took a girl from a 4 utr to an 8 utr for 25k over 2 years. She’s got a scholarship waiting for her sophomore year at a private d1 school in the northeast.

most parents of kids I work with spend around 600 a month. Some up to 1400 a month.

it’s a bit funny 5 years later being on the opposite end of the conversation.

Entitled to think 7k isn’t a lot to spend? Maybe. But tennis parents are tennis parents, I wasn’t talking about any kid at local hs.

if you are taking lessons at a country club or academy going rate is around 500 a month for full time clinics. Sometimes more.

tennis isn’t cheap, it’s never going to be either. But 500 a month isn’t an extreme amount to be paying for tennis.
How many hours a week of training is a player getting for $500 month and what is the ratio of players to pro? 8 years ago getting 9-12 hrs/week for 8 ratio for $600/month was a good deal. The last 18mo we paid $900 month but son trained with pros who had reached atp 50 and had been coaching for 10+ years. The killer in tennis costs is tournament travel-often $400+ for hotel and entry twice a month for 3 day tourneys and that did not include gas or food. Then there were 2-4 week long events in summer. Has to cost so much more now with gas and food inflation. At least players now can do UTR events and adult opens locally or regionally to save costs. Summer camps this year w/o boarding ran $600+ for 30 hours and that was not high performance. Now a cheap way to train would be for a group of HS players to hire a recent grad-get 4- 8 players of similar level and pay recent grad $50-$75 an hour to train 2-3 hrs twice a week and then 2 other days a week play practice matches amongst themselves
 

LOBALOT

Legend
How many hours a week of training is a player getting for $500 month and what is the ratio of players to pro? 8 years ago getting 9-12 hrs/week for 8 ratio for $600/month was a good deal. The last 18mo we paid $900 month but son trained with pros who had reached atp 50 and had been coaching for 10+ years. The killer in tennis costs is tournament travel-often $400+ for hotel and entry twice a month for 3 day tourneys and that did not include gas or food. Then there were 2-4 week long events in summer. Has to cost so much more now with gas and food inflation. At least players now can do UTR events and adult opens locally or regionally to save costs. Summer camps this year w/o boarding ran $600+ for 30 hours and that was not high performance. Now a cheap way to train would be for a group of HS players to hire a recent grad-get 4- 8 players of similar level and pay recent grad $50-$75 an hour to train 2-3 hrs twice a week and then 2 other days a week play practice matches amongst themselves

We spent an amazingly crazy amount of money on tennis on our son. I wish we could have had more kids but it worked out well from a tennis perspective. We know families with multiple kids spending for lessons and one parent would travel with one kid to this city for a tournament and the other to that city with another kid on the same weekend.
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
How many hours a week of training is a player getting for $500 month and what is the ratio of players to pro? 8 years ago getting 9-12 hrs/week for 8 ratio for $600/month was a good deal. The last 18mo we paid $900 month but son trained with pros who had reached atp 50 and had been coaching for 10+ years. The killer in tennis costs is tournament travel-often $400+ for hotel and entry twice a month for 3 day tourneys and that did not include gas or food. Then there were 2-4 week long events in summer. Has to cost so much more now with gas and food inflation. At least players now can do UTR events and adult opens locally or regionally to save costs. Summer camps this year w/o boarding ran $600+ for 30 hours and that was not high performance. Now a cheap way to train would be for a group of HS players to hire a recent grad-get 4- 8 players of similar level and pay recent grad $50-$75 an hour to train 2-3 hrs twice a week and then 2 other days a week play practice matches amongst themselves
500 a month gets the months clinics 5-7pm Monday-Thursday

instructor ratio is 2-3 coaches a day but kids per court is 3:1 which is more important than anything near me. Too many places have 6-8 kids per court.

i take on players who are more serious, anyone recreational I pass on to the other coaches that work in the program.

right now I’m lucky enough to work with a group of 10-12 year olds who are absolute studs
 

Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
Also the girl who’s parents paid me 25k over 2 years for essentially full time private coaching, she was offered spots at many nescac schools and top d3 schools.

she went with a d1 that had a top 30 business school and a very rare minor that worked well for her future

it took a gap year as I met her June going into senior year, but the level jump with solid academics really opened up a lot of doors for her.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
500 a month gets the months clinics 5-7pm Monday-Thursday

instructor ratio is 2-3 coaches a day but kids per court is 3:1 which is more important than anything near me. Too many places have 6-8 kids per court.

i take on players who are more serious, anyone recreational I pass on to the other coaches that work in the program.

right now I’m lucky enough to work with a group of 10-12 year olds who are absolute studs
Yes, for serious tennis u can’t have more than 4 per court with pro watching over 2 courts. Is ur academy on public or neighborhood courts? Tennis costs are higher if pro has to lease courts or at private club.
 

hadoken

Professional
But 500 a month isn’t an extreme amount to be paying for tennis.

Nobody is doing $500/month for a kid hoping him to get good. Tennis is very expensive. My son is almost 12 and I had him playing 1x week with a private ($50/hr...this is on the cheap side b/c I have access to a private court) and 1x time a week doing a group clinic ($45/1.5 hrs with about 4 per court)...that's already $400/month + play a couple local tournaments 1-2x a month and that's easily ~$500. That's not that much time on the court if you think about it and sorta bare minimum to keep building skills

So at that rate that's about $6,000/year....this doesn't bug me too much. My other son plays lacrosse...if he did play year round in club teams and private coaching that's $3K+/yr. The incremental cost of 1 son doing tennis is 'tolerable'. I have zero aspirations for my son to play college but if he wants to be a really good HS player I want to add a weekly private lesson this year to see if it makes a meaningful difference. But really at $6K/yr I am already on the 'cheap' side of things here in the San Diego area and at his age, some kids are really starting to step up and outclass my son...those parents are basically spending 1.5-2x what I spend for their kid to be really good...easily 10K+/year....I can't afford that.
 

jcgatennismom

Hall of Fame
Nobody is doing $500/month for a kid hoping him to get good. Tennis is very expensive. My son is almost 12 and I had him playing 1x week with a private ($50/hr...this is on the cheap side b/c I have access to a private court) and 1x time a week doing a group clinic ($45/1.5 hrs with about 4 per court)...that's already $400/month + play a couple local tournaments 1-2x a month and that's easily ~$500. That's not that much time on the court if you think about it and sorta bare minimum to keep building skills

So at that rate that's about $6,000/year....this doesn't bug me too much. My other son plays lacrosse...if he did play year round in club teams and private coaching that's $3K+/yr. The incremental cost of 1 son doing tennis is 'tolerable'. I have zero aspirations for my son to play college but if he wants to be a really good HS player I want to add a weekly private lesson this year to see if it makes a meaningful difference. But really at $6K/yr I am already on the 'cheap' side of things here in the San Diego area and at his age, some kids are really starting to step up and outclass my son...those parents are basically spending 1.5-2x what I spend for their kid to be really good...easily 10K+/year....I can't afford that.
Smart to save ur $ now so u can spend more 15-17. We had our son in lessons and tourneys bc we wanted him to play HS tennis as a freshman for one of the top 8 teams in state. We weren’t thinking about college but then he had a growth spurt-went from 3 star to 5 star in a short amount of time. The key times are soph spring thru the summer after jr year-those 15 months can make or break recruiting. Since u r in Cali, when ur son gets older he will have tons of options at 16 and up-future Qualis, Cali jr itfs, prize $, and UTR PTT tour. Great to have no expectations for now, just build the skills and his love for the game. Try to add in 1-2 free match plays a week-got to be a lot of other 12yo to hit with. My son was on a challenge ladder from age 10 on- cost was only $25 for 12 matches
 

ClarkC

Hall of Fame
Only thing she can do is work at finding other kids or adults to play with, get into some drilling which is less costly then private lessons, and then play as many local tournaments as possible for practice. Ernesto Escobedo did this and he is winning challengers and now ATP matches at age 20. Its not impossible, but depends a lot on the kid playing and their desire to succeed.

If Escobedo progressed without expensive private lessons, that's great. For the record, he was a high blue chip recruit in the class of 2014 who bypassed college, so he is certainly a lot older than 20. His career prize money total singles plus doubles, has now topped $1.4 million after 8 years as a pro. I don't know what his expenses have been, whether he had academic interest in college, or anything else. But that is a hard road, knocking around full time in Futures and Challengers for 8 years. He has a 104-87 record in Challengers for his career.
 

tennisdad10

New User
If Escobedo progressed without expensive private lessons, that's great. For the record, he was a high blue chip recruit in the class of 2014 who bypassed college, so he is certainly a lot older than 20. His career prize money total singles plus doubles, has now topped $1.4 million after 8 years as a pro. I don't know what his expenses have been, whether he had academic interest in college, or anything else. But that is a hard road, knocking around full time in Futures and Challengers for 8 years. He has a 104-87 record in Challengers for his career.
It’s not cheap but doesn’t have to be that high. My son was top 50 in his class and we spent $15-$20k a year in HS including training, tournaments and travel. He went to regular HS and flew to a tourney once or twice a year-rest were in driving distance. He had less than a dozen private lessons over 8 years. Instead he trained with coaches who did small group training with enough individual attention. I know of players-mostly sons of coaches-who reached 4 or 5 star spending only $5-6K a year for tournaments and equipment. I know a lot of 4 star players who played HS tennis and still earned a spot in a D1 lineup (mostly MM) and several have gone on to win ATP points. There are multiple routes to D1 tennis and not all of them cost a fortune.
That's what I mean--anything less and you can be a solid 4 or even a low 5 star. Top 50 is amazing! Also depends on the coach, where you live, rates for privates, etc. All blue chips that are my daughter's peers are in the same boat but the difference is how much the private coach's rates are. Also, depends on what type of academy and their rate/location. So many variables but what really matters, as others are saying, is the work ethic of the child and the parent(s)! Parents need to figure out what works for them and their kids and design a program that works for their kid and then lead the charge. No academy is going to do that.
And then think about the costs--traveling to L1s twice a year is OK. But when you have Easter Bowl, Clay Courts, Hard Courts, Orange Bowl and Eddie Herr/Indoor Nationals (and I'm leaving out some other L1s and leaving out all L2s, L3s and L4s that require travel) and your child is expected to go deep, that's paying for flights, hotel for 8-10 days each, etc. And when your kid starts playing ITFs at 13, it's about traveling internationally as the US doesn't host too many ITFs.
 
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spanky

New User
My how different the times are today...

1985 - 1993 (when I was 10 y/o -> 18 y/o) - I trained with a high-level group at public courts with a good coach, taking private 30 min lessons ($25) once a week. I played Varsity tennis from grade 9 - 12, and was never no 1, only 2 or 3 depending on the year. Held top 10 state, top 30 sectional and top 50 national rankings back in the day, traveling (by car) to the most tournaments, including the Orange Bowl in my parents beat up station wagon. Strung rackets myself on a Klip dropweight machine, and worked a job as a mechanic to pay for tennis (and dating!). I was recruited and played D1 at a very good school, and had a winning record, but only got a tiny bit of money for tuition. Got an Engineering degree and went onto Stanford for grad school. I am a hyper competitive person, and tennis was my outlet for that - and the life lessons have been invaluable. However, the biggest life lesson is that you have to love the game and want to get better every day.

After 24 years of healthy competition post-college, at 46 - I had a life changing accident in Oct 2021 which destroyed my wrist. On a tennis court. Complete tear of the the S-L ligament. 10 months and two reconstruction surgeries later, and just today I was hitting with a friend (former D1 player) 15 years my junior who is helping me with my return to play. This game is a passion. I knew I loved from the moment I picked up a racket at 8 years old. The last year of my life would have been hell, but for the determination to get back to the sport I love. My Doctors told me I'd never play again. I *will* prove them wrong.

The cost of developing a Junior is not measured in dollars. It is in heart and perseverance. My boys (7 and 12) like the game. They play for fun, and they like the physical experience. It isn't the same for them as it was for me. I couldn't *not* play. If your child has that mindset - they will succeed. $5K or $50K / yr. Does. Not. Matter. As parents we have to look for our children's strengths and talents. Dollars can't compensate for passion and fire.

Just my 2 bits.
 

Gemini

Hall of Fame
If Escobedo progressed without expensive private lessons, that's great. For the record, he was a high blue chip recruit in the class of 2014 who bypassed college, so he is certainly a lot older than 20. His career prize money total singles plus doubles, has now topped $1.4 million after 8 years as a pro. I don't know what his expenses have been, whether he had academic interest in college, or anything else. But that is a hard road, knocking around full time in Futures and Challengers for 8 years. He has a 104-87 record in Challengers for his career.

The previous poster might have been referencing the wrong family member when he/she said Ernesto Escobedo. Emilio Nava is currently 20 years old and is the cousin of Ernesto Escobedo. Emilio also has the benefit of an older tennis playing brother, Eduardo, who played for Wake Forest.
 

TennisLogic

Semi-Pro
I think it is about the money, 12 years time an average of about 7k (more in later years) = about $84k.
They are comparing that to the price of a degree. In Texas on average of about $40k- $50k.
So in their mind they are actually saving money or at least breaking even.
It’s not just about developing a future world champion. Those $7k per year go towards shaping a well rounded individual, teaching perseverance, patience, etc.
 

shamaho

Professional
Hello Tennis Experts!!!

I’m new to this forum but not tennis and could really use some of your insights as fuel for a family question that has recently come up.

I have a niece that is 14, she has been playing for several years now and really seems to enjoy herself. She has been heavily involved a lot in tennis camps and tournaments for several years now.

But recently in a conversation with her mother (my sister), she said it is time to cut their losses and will be pulling her out of competitive tennis this year. I have to admit I was a little surprised.
When asked why because she always seemed to really be having a good time and seemed to be driven; she said it was costing too much: money, time and overall effort for something that has turned into a recreational hobby.

I didn’t pursue the issue to much afterward as I'm no expert, but its really bothered me as I’d always thought her path was to a university tennis team. Unsure if this was possible but she has talked about this often. Stopping mid-way through a sport just didn’t seem right (to me); considering all the time, effort and expenses already utilized.

Later our mother informed me they had already spent about >$50,000 on: training, tournaments, leagues and camps since she was 8 years old!

And they just didn’t want to spend another $50k for the next 4-5 years. She’ll still play tennis, but just on the local school team with no more: camps, tournaments, clinics, etc.

I have to admit, I only played for about 7 years in junior and high school and only went to a few camps, so the expense never seemed to be a problem. But, I never thought that tennis in these development years cost so much!!!

I’m still floored!!

Anyway, my question is, is this a realistic cost for junior development (as my sister is saying)? $5k-$7k per year from (roughly 8-10 years)?????
Or do kids develop in the schools teams (as I did)? Of course that might answer my question as I never thought of myself as a strong player, ha ha.
Just looking for some good thoughts to maybe keep the competitive side of tennis going for her, rather than going down the recreational side.

Thanks for your comments.
 

shamaho

Professional
Anyway, my question is, is this a realistic cost for junior development (as my sister is saying)? $5k-$7k per year from (roughly 8-10 years)?????

In my country in Europe, The figure mentioned in the coaching training course (more than 5 years ago) was in the ballpark of 8K-12K €/year - on the lower interval during the intial years, on the upper interval for latter years, 14 and above... thereabouts.

most of this cost was travelling to other countries to expose the athlete to different competitors in a way to allow for some motivating wins among many losses.
 

FiddlerDog

Hall of Fame
It’s not just about developing a future world champion. Those $7k per year go towards shaping a well rounded individual, teaching perseverance, patience, etc.

There is nothing well rounded about an elite tennis player.
They are mindless bots who are 1-trick ponies and profoundly stunted in other facets of life.
 

tennisdad10

New User
My how different the times are today...

1985 - 1993 (when I was 10 y/o -> 18 y/o) - I trained with a high-level group at public courts with a good coach, taking private 30 min lessons ($25) once a week. I played Varsity tennis from grade 9 - 12, and was never no 1, only 2 or 3 depending on the year. Held top 10 state, top 30 sectional and top 50 national rankings back in the day, traveling (by car) to the most tournaments, including the Orange Bowl in my parents beat up station wagon. Strung rackets myself on a Klip dropweight machine, and worked a job as a mechanic to pay for tennis (and dating!). I was recruited and played D1 at a very good school, and had a winning record, but only got a tiny bit of money for tuition. Got an Engineering degree and went onto Stanford for grad school. I am a hyper competitive person, and tennis was my outlet for that - and the life lessons have been invaluable. However, the biggest life lesson is that you have to love the game and want to get better every day.

After 24 years of healthy competition post-college, at 46 - I had a life changing accident in Oct 2021 which destroyed my wrist. On a tennis court. Complete tear of the the S-L ligament. 10 months and two reconstruction surgeries later, and just today I was hitting with a friend (former D1 player) 15 years my junior who is helping me with my return to play. This game is a passion. I knew I loved from the moment I picked up a racket at 8 years old. The last year of my life would have been hell, but for the determination to get back to the sport I love. My Doctors told me I'd never play again. I *will* prove them wrong.

The cost of developing a Junior is not measured in dollars. It is in heart and perseverance. My boys (7 and 12) like the game. They play for fun, and they like the physical experience. It isn't the same for them as it was for me. I couldn't *not* play. If your child has that mindset - they will succeed. $5K or $50K / yr. Does. Not. Matter. As parents we have to look for our children's strengths and talents. Dollars can't compensate for passion and fire.

Just my 2 bits.
Thank you for sharing. Beautiful story and terrible to hear about your accident. Agreed--cost of developing a junior is measured in passion and talent. However, if there is passion and talent, you need the $ to push the boundaries with tournaments and good coaching and training. Unfortunately, fitness, private coaching, tournaments etc to compete with the top 10-25 juniors nationally and top 100 internationally (ITFs) require the best training that is possible IF the kid has passion and talent. Without the passion, no amount of $ can help anyone develop.
 
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